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Post by ArArArchStanton on Nov 14, 2017 18:34:00 GMT
I just don't have any interest in the X-Men series at this point though. One of the reasons I enjoy the MCU is every film has a strong sense of place within the larger context. I have no idea what or where Logan is within the X-Verse. Nothing built to it, and even if something comes out of it like X23, I have no concept of how that adds to any sort of a whole, so it loses a lot of potential interest. If the Wolverine series had at least been more fluid at least within itself I'd be interested, but that film is so isolated it just doesn't do much for me outside of being pretty well made. But you can still enjoy a well made stand alone movie, right? If you can only appreciate films that tie into a shared universe you're gonna be depriving yourself of a lot of great movies. Very few movies add to some "whole" outside themselves, and don't need to. Also, for me, it does tie in. I consider it the end of that saga personally. I'm not really interested in the new cast so I like Logan as the grand finale of the X Men series. That's how I watch it anyway. I can for sure. The problem isn't that it's a standalone film, because I love lots of those.
The thing is a connected standalone film is a contradiction. It doesn't feel connected but it wants me to think that this is the payoff for this character, when it draws no cues from the past and nothing was ever leading to it.
What I'm saying is that V for Vendetta is a standalone film. Logan is a connected film that didn't bother to connect anything. And there's a difference.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2017 19:07:55 GMT
But you can still enjoy a well made stand alone movie, right? If you can only appreciate films that tie into a shared universe you're gonna be depriving yourself of a lot of great movies. Very few movies add to some "whole" outside themselves, and don't need to. Also, for me, it does tie in. I consider it the end of that saga personally. I'm not really interested in the new cast so I like Logan as the grand finale of the X Men series. That's how I watch it anyway. I can for sure. The problem isn't that it's a standalone film, because I love lots of those.
The thing is a connected standalone film is a contradiction. It doesn't feel connected but it wants me to think that this is the payoff for this character, when it draws no cues from the past and nothing was ever leading to it.
What I'm saying is that V for Vendetta is a standalone film. Logan is a connected film that didn't bother to connect anything. And there's a difference.
Fair enough. I won't deny that the first two Wolverine films left a lot to be desired (though I did like the 2nd one), but I do think Logan built on the previous character development quite a lot. It relied on everything we've learned about the character over the last fifteen years. You'd have to know about his history and origin to appreciate Logan. Also, the relationship with Xavier is a major carry over from the previous movies. |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Nov 14, 2017 19:46:36 GMT
I can for sure. The problem isn't that it's a standalone film, because I love lots of those.
The thing is a connected standalone film is a contradiction. It doesn't feel connected but it wants me to think that this is the payoff for this character, when it draws no cues from the past and nothing was ever leading to it.
What I'm saying is that V for Vendetta is a standalone film. Logan is a connected film that didn't bother to connect anything. And there's a difference.
Fair enough. I won't deny that the first two Wolverine films left a lot to be desired (though I did like the 2nd one), but I do think Logan built on the previous character development quite a lot. It relied on everything we've learned about the character over the last fifteen years. You'd have to know about his history and origin to appreciate Logan. Also, the relationship with Xavier is a major carry over from the previous movies. There's character development yes I agree, and like I said it's a good film. I think it's more of a product of the rest of the X-Men universe not having a clear objective than the actual film, but it does prevent me from developing any strong connection to it. |
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Post by harpospoke on Nov 14, 2017 20:28:00 GMT
Ok. I still think Logan is the best CBM of the year, though. It was good for sure, but I have trouble calling it the best because it has very little rewatch value. Kinda the same with me. I really liked Logan a lot...but never went to see it again. Haven't actually thought about watching it again. I need to try it once more at some point. |
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Post by harpospoke on Nov 14, 2017 20:33:30 GMT
Also, comparing Thor: Fragglerock to WW or Logan is like comparing Dumb&Dumber to Citizen Kane.
 
Not a good comparison at all. But Dumb and Dumber is a lot more entertaining than CK for sure. "Better movie" in my book since I don't really like CK that much. (yeah yeah..."camera angles" "lighting") Most people like Back to the Future, Terminator 2, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Star Wars more than CK. |
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Post by harpospoke on Nov 14, 2017 20:40:19 GMT
DC doesn't seem to have the same kind of international popularity as Marvel.In the US it does but it's always been that way internationally. They don't make as much money in relation to the domestic gross as other movies seem to. Like how Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman far outgrossed Doctor Strange domestically but the latter still made more internationally anyway. Maybe this is a tad too unnuanced. MCU vs DCEU, I would say it's safe to say that DCEU has not the same standing as MCU internationally (including the lucrative children market), duh, they have actually only 4 movies so far and their films tend to be darker and more mature.
But I do not believe that Marvel is per se more popular internationally than DC. Superman and Batman are THE epitomes of Superheroes worldwide, maybe followed by Spiderman (with the younger crowd). Translated into videp games, TV shows, comic sales, merchandise and animated films DC can more than compete internationally with Marvel I believe, and the picture gets more complex.
Nope...Spider-Man is the most popular character worldwide. That's probably as shocking as a US sports fan hearing that soccer is the most popular sport in the world. This isn't new either...as of 2014 it looked like this:  |
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Post by harpospoke on Nov 14, 2017 20:41:56 GMT
Nah, Logan took the easy way out by substituting blood and gore for actual plot. It was for "mature" audiences the way Friday the 13th movies are for "mature" audiences. Writing/directing a film that has serious tone and themes is harder than a comedy film like Ragnarok which requires little effort on actual narrative but uses low brow gags and simpleton jokes (evidenced by the report that 80% of the dialogue was improvised). So no Logan actually put in the effort and took the hard way to success. Not actually true. It's pretty well accepted that it's harder to do comedy than drama. That's why every comic actor can do a drama without breaking a sweat but very few dramatic actors can do comedy. |
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Nov 14, 2017 22:10:22 GMT
Maybe this is a tad too unnuanced. MCU vs DCEU, I would say it's safe to say that DCEU has not the same standing as MCU internationally (including the lucrative children market), duh, they have actually only 4 movies so far and their films tend to be darker and more mature.
But I do not believe that Marvel is per se more popular internationally than DC. Superman and Batman are THE epitomes of Superheroes worldwide, maybe followed by Spiderman (with the younger crowd). Translated into videp games, TV shows, comic sales, merchandise and animated films DC can more than compete internationally with Marvel I believe, and the picture gets more complex.
Nope...Spider-Man is the most popular character worldwide. That's probably as shocking as a US sports fan hearing that soccer is the most popular sport in the world. This isn't new either...as of 2014 it looked like this: seriously  ? I ask for popularity as reflected in video games, TV shows, comic sales and animated films, and you present some funny graphic about shipments in some specific year? That's your answer and approach? I was talking about long term, general public popularity as with eg Superman who had countless popular TV shows, animations and films, not to speak about comics: Eg the popular Ranker chart evaluates this historically by issues with these Heros since inception (1 Bats, 2 Supes 3Wolf 4 Spidey) www.ranker.com/list/superheroes-ranked-by-most-comic-book-appearances/ranker-comics. A graph with shipment of dolls for kids in one year will not tell me who is the most popular superhero. From what I get from media, games, films, comics, shows etc I severely doubt it's Spiderman, though he it def up there top 4. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 15, 2017 1:37:10 GMT
Writing/directing a film that has serious tone and themes is harder than a comedy film like Ragnarok which requires little effort on actual narrative but uses low brow gags and simpleton jokes (evidenced by the report that 80% of the dialogue was improvised). So no Logan actually put in the effort and took the hard way to success. Not actually true. It's pretty well accepted that it's harder to do comedy than drama. That's why every comic actor can do a drama without breaking a sweat but very few dramatic actors can do comedy. Yep, "Dying is Easy, Comedy is hard." |
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Post by harpospoke on Nov 15, 2017 5:58:26 GMT
Nope...Spider-Man is the most popular character worldwide. That's probably as shocking as a US sports fan hearing that soccer is the most popular sport in the world. This isn't new either...as of 2014 it looked like this: seriously ? I ask for popularity as reflected in video games, TV shows, comic sales and animated films, and you present some funny graphic about shipments in some specific year? That's your answer and approach? I was talking about long term, general public popularity as with eg Superman who had countless popular TV shows, animations and films, not to speak about comics: Eg the popular Ranker chart evaluates this historically by issues with these Heros since inception (1 Bats, 2 Supes 3Wolf 4 Spidey) www.ranker.com/list/superheroes-ranked-by-most-comic-book-appearances/ranker-comics. A graph with shipment of dolls for kids in one year will not tell me who is the most popular superhero. From what I get from media, games, films, comics, shows etc I severely doubt it's Spiderman, though he it def up there top 4. Yes... current popularity in the real world. Not 75 years worth of "appearances in comic books". What a shock...the oldest characters that DC throws into several titles a month have the most "appearances". It's nice that Batman and Superman were once the most popular...but times have changed. A movie with Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman couldn't even gross as much as a movie with Iron Man and Capt America with a guest appearance by Spider-Man just last year. And the same trio might have trouble making more than a Thor and Hulk movie this year. You're talking about the "good old days" there. |
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