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Post by CowherPowerForever on Dec 13, 2017 15:03:43 GMT
Look at the comics after The New 52 disaster. People lost confidence in DC. What happened as we look at the end of 2017? DC has regained that respect and is actually dominating Marvel easily.
It is too easy to say DC is finished. And it is even easier to make outlandish predictions.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Dec 13, 2017 17:05:50 GMT
What exactly, do you mean, why have the lightning? From a creative standpoint, it was obviously done to look cool and flashy. You’re blowing it out of proportion. As for Ares’ powers, what did we need to understand? He’s a God, hence why he can do all kinds of crazy things. They didn’t need to provide some long explanation for it. "to look cool and flashy" and for no other reason. I agree.
Regarding his powers, you have to establish what a character can and can't do. He's first introduced being able to appear in reflections in glass, but that has nothing to do with anything. He just can. It never comes up again. Then he's telekinetic, and puts on a set of armor just to look cool and for no other reason. Then he can summon lightening apparently, but can't defend himself from it? I guess? I mean they haven't told us what he can and can't do so I guess that kills him. Also how did Diana know it would kill him? She doesn't know anything about him.
How was Diana going to kill him without that?
You’re asking some weird questions. First off, you don’t need to dwell on the bad guy’s powers. Ares was able to do the things he did because he’s a God, it’s as simple as that. You’re the first person I’ve seen who’s actually tried to make his powers out to be an issue. If you really want an explanation for the lightning thing, you can just chalk that up to him being the son of Zeus. Also, what do you mean how did she know the lightning would kill him? She fired the lightning at him because lightning is generally something that contains destructive force. |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Dec 13, 2017 17:09:26 GMT
"to look cool and flashy" and for no other reason. I agree.
Regarding his powers, you have to establish what a character can and can't do. He's first introduced being able to appear in reflections in glass, but that has nothing to do with anything. He just can. It never comes up again. Then he's telekinetic, and puts on a set of armor just to look cool and for no other reason. Then he can summon lightening apparently, but can't defend himself from it? I guess? I mean they haven't told us what he can and can't do so I guess that kills him. Also how did Diana know it would kill him? She doesn't know anything about him.
How was Diana going to kill him without that?
You’re asking some weird questions. First off, you don’t need to dwell on the bad guy’s powers. Ares was able to do the things he did because he’s a God, it’s as simple as that. You’re the first person I’ve seen who’s actually tried to make his powers out to be an issue. If you really want an explanation for the lightning thing, you can just chalk that up to him being the son of Zeus. Also, what do you mean how did she know the lightning would kill him? She fired the lightning at him because lightning is generally something that contains destructive force. It's not as simple as that. Diana didn't beat him, and she didn't find him either. He suddenly has lightening control powers and Diana somehow knows she can beat him with the lightening he just controlled, what?
What was she going to do if he didn't develop random lightening powers?
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Post by thisguy4000 on Dec 13, 2017 17:11:53 GMT
You’re asking some weird questions. First off, you don’t need to dwell on the bad guy’s powers. Ares was able to do the things he did because he’s a God, it’s as simple as that. You’re the first person I’ve seen who’s actually tried to make his powers out to be an issue. If you really want an explanation for the lightning thing, you can just chalk that up to him being the son of Zeus. Also, what do you mean how did she know the lightning would kill him? She fired the lightning at him because lightning is generally something that contains destructive force. It's not as simple as that. Diana didn't beat him, and she didn't find him either. He suddenly has lightening control powers and Diana somehow knows she can beat him with the lightening he just controlled, what?
What was she going to do if he didn't develop random lightening powers?
How exactly were the powers random? You’re making it sound like Ares is a character who made prior appearances in this universe. His appearance in WW was his first appearance in the entire DCEU, so complaining about how his powers “came out of nowhere” doesn’t really make sense. |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Dec 13, 2017 17:20:08 GMT
It's not as simple as that. Diana didn't beat him, and she didn't find him either. He suddenly has lightening control powers and Diana somehow knows she can beat him with the lightening he just controlled, what?
What was she going to do if he didn't develop random lightening powers?
How exactly were the powers random? You’re making it sound like Ares is a character who made prior appearances in this universe. His appearance in WW was his first appearance in the entire DCEU, so complaining about how his powers “came out of nowhere” doesn’t really make sense. Can you seriously not see how his powers are never defined?
Also, you're still haven't answer this, what was Diana going to do if he hadn't given her the lightening power?
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Post by thisguy4000 on Dec 13, 2017 17:28:38 GMT
How exactly were the powers random? You’re making it sound like Ares is a character who made prior appearances in this universe. His appearance in WW was his first appearance in the entire DCEU, so complaining about how his powers “came out of nowhere” doesn’t really make sense. Can you seriously not see how his powers are never defined?
Also, you're still haven't answer this, what was Diana going to do if he hadn't given her the lightening power?
How exactly should his powers have been defined? Again, the obvious explanation for how he can do the things he does is that he’s a God. The movie didn’t need to go any deeper than that, considering that Ares isn’t the protagonist. Also, I would have to assume that if it weren’t for Ares’ lightning, Diana would’ve simply beaten him in a straight up brawl. Why are you clinging so much to this? I could just as easily ask “what would the Avengers have done if the Chitari weren’t conveniently killed off along with the destruction of their ship?” |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Dec 13, 2017 17:45:28 GMT
Can you seriously not see how his powers are never defined?
Also, you're still haven't answer this, what was Diana going to do if he hadn't given her the lightening power?
How exactly should his powers have been defined? Again, the obvious explanation for how he can do the things he does is that he’s a God. The movie didn’t need to go any deeper than that, considering that Ares isn’t the protagonist. Also, I would have to assume that if it weren’t for Ares’ lightning, Diana would’ve simply beaten him in a straight up brawl. Why are you clinging so much to this? I could just as easily ask “what would the Avengers have done if the Chitari weren’t conveniently killed off along with the destruction of their ship?” I'm not sitting here rewriting the movie for you, but suffice it to say, they could have easily established his power, and allowed Diana to triumph using her own wit and power, as opposed to her failing and being given the power needed to win.
Oh Diana would have beaten him in a brawl using her own power as opposed to his. That would have actually served the narrative better.
You couldn't ask the same of the Avengers. They closed the portal. Sending the bomb through wasn't the end of the battle. They would have closed it and beaten whoever was left like they were already doing.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Dec 13, 2017 17:58:03 GMT
How exactly should his powers have been defined? Again, the obvious explanation for how he can do the things he does is that he’s a God. The movie didn’t need to go any deeper than that, considering that Ares isn’t the protagonist. Also, I would have to assume that if it weren’t for Ares’ lightning, Diana would’ve simply beaten him in a straight up brawl. Why are you clinging so much to this? I could just as easily ask “what would the Avengers have done if the Chitari weren’t conveniently killed off along with the destruction of their ship?” I'm not sitting here rewriting the movie for you, but suffice it to say, they could have easily established his power, and allowed Diana to triumph using her own wit and power, as opposed to her failing and being given the power needed to win.
Oh Diana would have beaten him in a brawl using her own power as opposed to his. That would have actually served the narrative better.
You couldn't ask the same of the Avengers. They closed the portal. Sending the bomb through wasn't the end of the battle. They would have closed it and beaten whoever was left like they were already doing.
What was there to establish about his power, and what difference would it have made if they spent several minutes of exposition regarding what he can do? He was the powerful bad guy who Diana needed to beat. What more was there to say? How would beating Ares in a brawl have served the narrative better? Diana beat Ares, and she was the only one who was able to do so in the first place. You don’t need to spend several more minutes of the film’s already lengthy runtime just to show her beating Ares to a bloody pulp. It doesn’t really matter that the Avengers closed the portal, the ending with the Chitari all dying along with their ship was a cop-out for many people. It’s obvious that the reason the film ended that way was because Joss Whedon didn’t want to go through the trouble of having the Avengers destroying each and every one of the bad guys. |
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Post by Larcen26 on Dec 13, 2017 18:39:58 GMT
"OOOOOHHHHH...HOW DOES YOUR TEAM COME BACK FROM SUCH A DEVASTATING LOSS LIKE THAT! LOOK AT HOW BADLY YOU LOST! YOUR TEAM SUCKS, MINE IS AMAZING!" |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Dec 13, 2017 19:06:07 GMT
I'm not sitting here rewriting the movie for you, but suffice it to say, they could have easily established his power, and allowed Diana to triumph using her own wit and power, as opposed to her failing and being given the power needed to win.
Oh Diana would have beaten him in a brawl using her own power as opposed to his. That would have actually served the narrative better.
You couldn't ask the same of the Avengers. They closed the portal. Sending the bomb through wasn't the end of the battle. They would have closed it and beaten whoever was left like they were already doing.
What was there to establish about his power, and what difference would it have made if they spent several minutes of exposition regarding what he can do? He was the powerful bad guy who Diana needed to beat. What more was there to say? How would beating Ares in a brawl have served the narrative better? Diana beat Ares, and she was the only one who was able to do so in the first place. You don’t need to spend several more minutes of the film’s already lengthy runtime just to show her beating Ares to a bloody pulp. It doesn’t really matter that the Avengers closed the portal, the ending with the Chitari all dying along with their ship was a cop-out for many people. It’s obvious that the reason the film ended that way was because Joss Whedon didn’t want to go through the trouble of having the Avengers destroying each and every one of the bad guys. You didn't need exposition to establish it. Just don't have a series of random things.
She didn't beat Ares. It wasn't established that she had the wit to find him or the power to beat him. He gave her both. If she had beaten him in a brawl it would have at least displayed she had the power to do so, and thus is a better narrative because it shows she won instead of him just losing.
The Chitari all dying is irrelevant as they would have been able to stop them anyway. Closing the portal was what mattered. I agree it's so we didn't have to see each and every one hunted down. That's not a problem. WW not having the wit or power to defeat Ares is.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Dec 13, 2017 19:08:34 GMT
"OOOOOHHHHH...HOW DOES YOUR TEAM COME BACK FROM SUCH A DEVASTATING LOSS LIKE THAT! LOOK AT HOW BADLY YOU LOST! YOUR TEAM SUCKS, MINE IS AMAZING!" Exactly |
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Post by thisguy4000 on Dec 13, 2017 19:45:23 GMT
What was there to establish about his power, and what difference would it have made if they spent several minutes of exposition regarding what he can do? He was the powerful bad guy who Diana needed to beat. What more was there to say? How would beating Ares in a brawl have served the narrative better? Diana beat Ares, and she was the only one who was able to do so in the first place. You don’t need to spend several more minutes of the film’s already lengthy runtime just to show her beating Ares to a bloody pulp. It doesn’t really matter that the Avengers closed the portal, the ending with the Chitari all dying along with their ship was a cop-out for many people. It’s obvious that the reason the film ended that way was because Joss Whedon didn’t want to go through the trouble of having the Avengers destroying each and every one of the bad guys. You didn't need exposition to establish it. Just don't have a series of random things.
She didn't beat Ares. It wasn't established that she had the wit to find him or the power to beat him. He gave her both. If she had beaten him in a brawl it would have at least displayed she had the power to do so, and thus is a better narrative because it shows she won instead of him just losing.
The Chitari all dying is irrelevant as they would have been able to stop them anyway. Closing the portal was what mattered. I agree it's so we didn't have to see each and every one hunted down. That's not a problem. WW not having the wit or power to defeat Ares is.
Ares’ powers were no more random than Superman’s. Again, he is a God, so his powers don’t need to follow some set law. it was demonstrated that she had the power to beat him. I don’t know how many times I need to say this, but she was the Godkiller. Ares didn’t give her the means to defeat him. She just defeated him. |
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Post by Lord Death Man on Dec 13, 2017 20:13:34 GMT
You didn't need exposition to establish it. Just don't have a series of random things.
She didn't beat Ares. It wasn't established that she had the wit to find him or the power to beat him. He gave her both. If she had beaten him in a brawl it would have at least displayed she had the power to do so, and thus is a better narrative because it shows she won instead of him just losing.
The Chitari all dying is irrelevant as they would have been able to stop them anyway. Closing the portal was what mattered. I agree it's so we didn't have to see each and every one hunted down. That's not a problem. WW not having the wit or power to defeat Ares is.
Ares’ powers were no more random than Superman’s. Again, he is a God, so his powers don’t need to follow some set law. it was demonstrated that she had the power to beat him. I don’t know how many times I need to say this, but she was the Godkiller. Ares didn’t give her the means to defeat him. She just defeated him. Why do you think they chose to give Ares the lightning bolt? Do you think he usurped it from Zeus upon killing him? It seemed like an odd choice to me. Ares is traditionally known as the embodiment of the physical vigor and man-slaughtering brutality needed to win a war. Resorting to subterfuge or more subtle machinations to facilitate his plans seems more like a trait of his sister, Athena. Ares is the God of Military action and not Military Intelligence. I get that the DCEU portrayal of the gods doesn't have to follow the myths strictly but, Zeus, Ares, and company all come from the most popular pantheon of mythological gods, and it's noticeable when there are serious deviations. That, amongst several other odd choices, occasionally took me out of the movie. |
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Post by thisguy4000 on Dec 13, 2017 20:15:53 GMT
Ares’ powers were no more random than Superman’s. Again, he is a God, so his powers don’t need to follow some set law. it was demonstrated that she had the power to beat him. I don’t know how many times I need to say this, but she was the Godkiller. Ares didn’t give her the means to defeat him. She just defeated him. Why do you think they chose to give Ares the lightning bolt? Do you think he usurped it from Zeus upon killing him? It seemed like an odd choice to me. Ares is traditionally known as the embodiment of the physical vigor and man-slaughtering brutality needed to win a war. Resorting to subterfuge or more subtle machinations to facilitate his plans seems more like a trait of his sister, Athena. Ares is the God of Military action and not Military Intelligence. I get that the DCEU portrayal of the gods doesn't have to follow the myths strictly but, Zeus, Ares, and company all come from the most popular pantheon of mythological gods, and it's noticeable when there are serious deviations. That, amongst several other odd choices, occasionally took me out of the movie. The DC version of Ares has always been established as being more formidable than his Greek mythology counterpart. That’s just how it is. Athena isn’t Wonder Woman’s enemy, Ares is. |
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Post by Lord Death Man on Dec 13, 2017 20:35:44 GMT
Why do you think they chose to give Ares the lightning bolt? Do you think he usurped it from Zeus upon killing him? It seemed like an odd choice to me. Ares is traditionally known as the embodiment of the physical vigor and man-slaughtering brutality needed to win a war. Resorting to subterfuge or more subtle machinations to facilitate his plans seems more like a trait of his sister, Athena. Ares is the God of Military action and not Military Intelligence. I get that the DCEU portrayal of the gods doesn't have to follow the myths strictly but, Zeus, Ares, and company all come from the most popular pantheon of mythological gods, and it's noticeable when there are serious deviations. That, amongst several other odd choices, occasionally took me out of the movie. The DC version of Ares has always been established as being more formidable than his Greek mythology counterpart. That’s just how it is. Athena isn’t Wonder Woman’s enemy, Ares is. Indeed, I was just curious. I haven't read many Wonder Woman comics so I didn't realize Ares was associated with Zeus' traditional weapon. Thanks for clearing that up. |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Dec 13, 2017 20:47:20 GMT
You didn't need exposition to establish it. Just don't have a series of random things.
She didn't beat Ares. It wasn't established that she had the wit to find him or the power to beat him. He gave her both. If she had beaten him in a brawl it would have at least displayed she had the power to do so, and thus is a better narrative because it shows she won instead of him just losing.
The Chitari all dying is irrelevant as they would have been able to stop them anyway. Closing the portal was what mattered. I agree it's so we didn't have to see each and every one hunted down. That's not a problem. WW not having the wit or power to defeat Ares is.
Ares’ powers were no more random than Superman’s. Again, he is a God, so his powers don’t need to follow some set law. it was demonstrated that she had the power to beat him. I don’t know how many times I need to say this, but she was the Godkiller. Ares didn’t give her the means to defeat him. She just defeated him. It's not the powers themselves, it's how they're established. So 3/4ths of the way through the fight he suddenly has lightening summoning? who knew??? What else can he do?
And I don't know how many times I need to say this, but if she was the Godkiller, why did they write the scene with him giving her the power to kill him? Especially with a power that hadn't been established he even had. It's not like she planned to use the lightening against him. It's not like she should have thought he couldn't control it. See the problem yet? She didn't just defeat him.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Dec 13, 2017 20:52:19 GMT
Ares’ powers were no more random than Superman’s. Again, he is a God, so his powers don’t need to follow some set law. it was demonstrated that she had the power to beat him. I don’t know how many times I need to say this, but she was the Godkiller. Ares didn’t give her the means to defeat him. She just defeated him. It's not the powers themselves, it's how they're established. So 3/4ths of the way through the fight he suddenly has lightening summoning? who knew??? What else can he do?
And I don't know how many times I need to say this, but if she was the Godkiller, why did they write the scene with him giving her the power to kill him? Especially with a power that hadn't been established he even had. It's not like she planned to use the lightening against him. It's not like she should have thought he couldn't control it. See the problem yet? She didn't just defeat him.
Once more, Ares was not some established character, so complaining that he had lightning powers is pointless. By the way, he technically showed he had those powers before 3/4ths of the way through the fight. He used it when he was being held by the lasso too. This is will be my last post on the topic since I’m tired of going in circles with you, but she used the lightning against him. She demonstrated that she had clear control over it, and she fired it back at him. So yes, she did have the power to defeat him. |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Dec 13, 2017 20:59:35 GMT
It's not the powers themselves, it's how they're established. So 3/4ths of the way through the fight he suddenly has lightening summoning? who knew??? What else can he do?
And I don't know how many times I need to say this, but if she was the Godkiller, why did they write the scene with him giving her the power to kill him? Especially with a power that hadn't been established he even had. It's not like she planned to use the lightening against him. It's not like she should have thought he couldn't control it. See the problem yet? She didn't just defeat him.
Once more, Ares was not some established character, so complaining that he had lightning powers is pointless. By the way, he technically showed he had those powers before 3/4ths of the way through the fight. He used it when he was being held by the lasso too. This is will be my last post on the topic since I’m tired of going in circles with you, but she used the lightning against him. She demonstrated that she had clear control over it, and she fired it back at him. So yes, she did have the power to defeat him. I'm not complaining that he has lightening powers. At all. I'm specifically discussing how they were established. Do you understand the difference?
We aren't going in circles. I've been standing still, while you ran around trying to justify this scene.
No, she didn't have the power, and you just said she didn't. She didn't generate the lightening. She didn't know he couldn't simply control it if she fired it back. She didn't find him in the first place and had given up. What am I supposed to be impressed with?
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Post by thisguy4000 on Dec 13, 2017 21:01:10 GMT
Once more, Ares was not some established character, so complaining that he had lightning powers is pointless. By the way, he technically showed he had those powers before 3/4ths of the way through the fight. He used it when he was being held by the lasso too. This is will be my last post on the topic since I’m tired of going in circles with you, but she used the lightning against him. She demonstrated that she had clear control over it, and she fired it back at him. So yes, she did have the power to defeat him. I'm not complaining that he has lightening powers. At all. I'm specifically discussing how they were established. Do you understand the difference?
We aren't going in circles. I've been standing still, why you ran around trying to justify this scene.
No, she didn't have the power, and you just said she didn't.
*sigh* Yes, she did. |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Dec 13, 2017 21:02:02 GMT
I'm not complaining that he has lightening powers. At all. I'm specifically discussing how they were established. Do you understand the difference?
We aren't going in circles. I've been standing still, why you ran around trying to justify this scene.
No, she didn't have the power, and you just said she didn't.
*sigh* Yes, she did. Where did she get the lightening from? |
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