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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 18:21:40 GMT
You may do that, but Yoda did not until now. Of course in real life Yoda might have switched to surname basis during the years between, but this is fiction and thus - without any plausible explanation - seems out of character and like a continuity error. You're right. If you go back to the PT, Yoda always addresses the other Jedi by "Master" and sometimes will then call them by their first name. i.e. He refers to Qui-Gon Jinn as "Master Qui-Gon" and Obi-Wan as "Master Obi-Wan" at different points. Yoda will also refer to Jedi masters by their last name but always with the title too - i.e. "Master Kenobi" or "Master Windu". At no point in the other movies does he just drop the respect of "Master" from how he addresses other Jedi Masters. 456123 |
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Post by Larcen26 on Jan 10, 2018 18:58:44 GMT
You're right. If you go back to the PT, Yoda always addresses the other Jedi by "Master" and sometimes will then call them by their first name. i.e. He refers to Qui-Gon Jinn as "Master Qui-Gon" and Obi-Wan as "Master Obi-Wan" at different points. Yoda will also refer to Jedi masters by their last name but always with the title too - i.e. "Master Kenobi" or "Master Windu". At no point in the other movies does he just drop the respect of "Master" from how he addresses other Jedi Masters. 456123 Homer, I may be misreading this, but you seem to think that 456123 is somehow an insult, or a wrong way of thinking. Apologies if I am wrong, but curious why you think this. |
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Post by Jedan Archer on Jan 10, 2018 19:15:36 GMT
You may do that, but Yoda did not until now. Of course in real life Yoda might have switched to surname basis during the years between, but this is fiction and thus - without any plausible explanation - seems out of character and like a continuity error. You're right. If you go back to the PT, Yoda always addresses the other Jedi by "Master" and sometimes will then call them by their first name. i.e. He refers to Qui-Gon Jinn as "Master Qui-Gon" and Obi-Wan as "Master Obi-Wan" at different points. Yoda will also refer to Jedi masters by their last name but always with the title too - i.e. "Master Kenobi" or "Master Windu". At no point in the other movies does he just drop the respect of "Master" from how he addresses other Jedi Masters. Yes, if Yoda has addressed Luke as Master Skywalker that would make some sense as a sign of respect between arrived Jedi masters. But in view of fallen-from-grace Luke I would have been fine with "Luke" only, but calling him "young Skywalker", or just "Skywalker", sounds a bit condescending IMO. It's a minor continuity detail, but it rings false somehow, the funny Yoda voice-intonation and his little dance of giggles too, not to speak of the elementary violence aspect. It's as if they wanted not to cameo the "real" grumpy Yoda, but Yoda's most memorable moments in two minutes for the causal fan. That's probably what this is. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 19:20:43 GMT
Homer, I may be misreading this, but you seem to think that 456123 is somehow an insult, or a wrong way of thinking. Apologies if I am wrong, but curious why you think this. It's not an insult, but that the viewer will find inconsistencies in characters if they don't follow their changes in the order that the storyteller intended. Any viewer can follow the story in any matter they wish, but if they want the story to make sense the characters develop in a 123456 order. Those who interpret character development by date of release, 456123, may miss things like Yoda's arc and expect him to act in ways he just won't after he and his order being virtually destroyed mid saga. |
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Jan 10, 2018 19:28:19 GMT
Homer, I may be misreading this, but you seem to think that 456123 is somehow an insult Any viewer can follow the story in any matter they wish, but if they want the story to make sense the characters develop in a 123456 order. Those who interpret character development by date of release, 456123, may miss things I prefer the numbers 3263827! |
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Jan 10, 2018 20:02:35 GMT
You're right. If you go back to the PT, Yoda always addresses the other Jedi by "Master" and sometimes will then call them by their first name. i.e. He refers to Qui-Gon Jinn as "Master Qui-Gon" and Obi-Wan as "Master Obi-Wan" at different points. Yoda will also refer to Jedi masters by their last name but always with the title too - i.e. "Master Kenobi" or "Master Windu". At no point in the other movies does he just drop the respect of "Master" from how he addresses other Jedi Masters. Yes, if Yoda has addressed Luke as Master Skywalker that would make some sense as a sign of respect between arrived Jedi masters. But in view of fallen-from-grace Luke I would have been fine with "Luke" only, but calling him "young Skywalker", or just "Skywalker", sounds a bit condescending IMO. It's a minor continuity detail, but it rings false somehow, the funny Yoda voice-intonation and his little dance of giggles too, not to speak of the elementary violence aspect. It's as if they wanted not to cameo the "real" grumpy Yoda, but Yoda's most memorable moments in two minutes for the causal fan. That's probably what this is. TLJ Yoda reminded me of the Yoda of the first 2 seasons of the Clone Wars animated series. The makers said they wanted to portray a more playful, impish side of Yoda in some episodes. The idea being that he showed it before the fall of the Jedi and Republic stole that from him. We didn't see much of it in the episodic movies. When Luke first arrived on Dagobah is one. And when he was teaching the younglings in AOTC might be the only other time. But that's why it seemed so inappropriate in TLJ. He wasn't there to teach younglings... (although the way he was acting I expected half a dozen of them to run up to him out of nowhere in that scene). He showed up to discuss with Luke the fate of the Jedi Order; to discuss the fate of the last Jedi scrolls, and how to handle Rey's training. Yoda's whole disposition was like a Disneyfied cameo. It was awkward and "forced" given the context. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 20:23:32 GMT
Yes, if Yoda has addressed Luke as Master Skywalker that would make some sense as a sign of respect between arrived Jedi masters. But in view of fallen-from-grace Luke I would have been fine with "Luke" only, but calling him "young Skywalker", or just "Skywalker", sounds a bit condescending IMO. It's a minor continuity detail, but it rings false somehow, the funny Yoda voice-intonation and his little dance of giggles too, not to speak of the elementary violence aspect. It's as if they wanted not to cameo the "real" grumpy Yoda, but Yoda's most memorable moments in two minutes for the causal fan. That's probably what this is. TLJ Yoda reminded me of the Yoda of the first 2 seasons of the Clone Wars animated series. The makers said they wanted to portray a more playful, impish side of Yoda in some episodes. The idea being that he showed it before the fall of the Jedi and Republic stole that from him. We didn't see much of it in the episodic movies. When Luke first arrived on Dagobah is one. And when he was teaching the younglings in AOTC might be the only other time. But that's why it seemed so inappropriate in TLJ. He wasn't there to teach younglings... (although the way he was acting I expected half a dozen of them to run up to him out of nowhere in that scene). He showed up to discuss with Luke the fate of the Jedi Order; to discuss the fate of the last Jedi scrolls, and how to handle Rey's training. Yoda's whole disposition was like a Disneyfied cameo. It was awkward and "forced" given the context. Why do you think Lucas replaced Sébastian Shaw with Hayden Christensen at the end of ROTJ there on Mount Forcemore? |
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Jan 10, 2018 20:50:00 GMT
TLJ Yoda reminded me of the Yoda of the first 2 seasons of the Clone Wars animated series. The makers said they wanted to portray a more playful, impish side of Yoda in some episodes. The idea being that he showed it before the fall of the Jedi and Republic stole that from him. We didn't see much of it in the episodic movies. When Luke first arrived on Dagobah is one. And when he was teaching the younglings in AOTC might be the only other time. But that's why it seemed so inappropriate in TLJ. He wasn't there to teach younglings... (although the way he was acting I expected half a dozen of them to run up to him out of nowhere in that scene). He showed up to discuss with Luke the fate of the Jedi Order; to discuss the fate of the last Jedi scrolls, and how to handle Rey's training. Yoda's whole disposition was like a Disneyfied cameo. It was awkward and "forced" given the context. Why do you think Lucas replaced Sébastian Shaw with Hayden Christensen at the end of ROTJ there on Mount Forcemore? To reflect the last age at which Anakin was on the Lightside. So him becoming a Force ghost shows it's part of being on the Lightside. What he looks like as Sebastian Shaw would've been during the Darkside period of his life. Not sure what that has to do with Yoda acting like a prankish imp in TLJ? |
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Post by Larcen26 on Jan 10, 2018 21:33:03 GMT
Homer, I may be misreading this, but you seem to think that 456123 is somehow an insult, or a wrong way of thinking. Apologies if I am wrong, but curious why you think this. It's not an insult, but that the viewer will find inconsistencies in characters if they don't follow their changes in the order that the storyteller intended. Any viewer can follow the story in any matter they wish, but if they want the story to make sense the characters develop in a 123456 order. Those who interpret character development by date of release, 456123, may miss things like Yoda's arc and expect him to act in ways he just won't after he and his order being virtually destroyed mid saga. Curious for an example of this...I have been barely following the recent back and forth about the usage of first and last names so hopefully it's not hidden in there somewhere. |
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Post by shinnickneth on Jan 10, 2018 21:53:53 GMT
I prefer 24601. Thank you very much. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 22:35:22 GMT
It's not an insult, but that the viewer will find inconsistencies in characters if they don't follow their changes in the order that the storyteller intended. Any viewer can follow the story in any matter they wish, but if they want the story to make sense the characters develop in a 123456 order. Those who interpret character development by date of release, 456123, may miss things like Yoda's arc and expect him to act in ways he just won't after he and his order being virtually destroyed mid saga. Curious for an example of this...I have been barely following the recent back and forth about the usage of first and last names so hopefully it's not hidden in there somewhere. I'm not really seeing the whole first name/last name thing so it isn't in those posts, lol. My point of Yoda's arc is he went from an admittedly detached from the world, sitting in a literal Ivory tower guy who over so many generations had fallen into 'shipping the Jedi. He got involved in war as a leader, let fear creep in and became more and more isolated from the Force. And he failed. In his loss, the spirit of an old friend came to him and started to show him a different, older, humble way. After communing with that spirit, Yoda was attached to his world, living in a mud hut, not 'shipping the Jedi anymore, he was 'shipping the Force, his ally. He was in tune with the Force, he was reverent to it, not to man, absolutely not to the Jedi as they were at the end. I just don't see that Yoda worrying about what title he used when addressing another person. He was no longer a religious zealot toward the Jedi religion. He was in tune with what the Jedi lost through their detachment, the Force. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 22:48:36 GMT
Why do you think Lucas replaced Sébastian Shaw with Hayden Christensen at the end of ROTJ there on Mount Forcemore? To reflect the last age at which Anakin was on the Lightside. So him becoming a Force ghost shows it's part of being on the Lightside. What he looks like as Sebastian Shaw would've been during the Darkside period of his life. Not sure what that has to do with Yoda acting like a prankish imp in TLJ? I saw it as Anakin presenting himself as he wished. That he had the power to choose the image to do just that. I think that Luke's astral projection was a very similar power, although not exactly the same as a force ghost, he chose the "Grecian Formula" Luke to suit his desire has how to be seen, just as Kylo and Leia would remember him. I think Yoda chose his image and demeanor to fit the situation at hand. Did Luke need a grumpy ass Yoda after years of self loathing and wallowing in guilt to get him to do what was right, or did he need someone to come along and give him some "Lighten up Francis" moments and get him back on his "Force Horse" and start concentrating on solutions to the task at hand? I think Yoda's a pretty wise little green guy, and he presented himself to suit the situation. |
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Jan 10, 2018 22:57:25 GMT
I prefer 24601. Thank you very much. 8675301 |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 23:03:03 GMT
I prefer 24601. Thank you very much. 8675301 Is that Jenny's neighbor? |
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Jan 10, 2018 23:04:23 GMT
Is that Jenny's neighbor? haha oops! |
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Jan 11, 2018 0:20:53 GMT
To reflect the last age at which Anakin was on the Lightside. So him becoming a Force ghost shows it's part of being on the Lightside. What he looks like as Sebastian Shaw would've been during the Darkside period of his life. Not sure what that has to do with Yoda acting like a prankish imp in TLJ? I saw it as Anakin presenting himself as he wished. That he had the power to choose the image to do just that. I think that Luke's astral projection was a very similar power, although not exactly the same as a force ghost, he chose the "Grecian Formula" Luke to suit his desire has how to be seen, just as Kylo and Leia would remember him. I think Yoda chose his image and demeanor to fit the situation at hand. Did Luke need a grumpy ass Yoda after years of self loathing and wallowing in guilt to get him to do what was right, or did he need someone to come along and give him some "Lighten up Francis" moments and get him back on his "Force Horse" and start concentrating on solutions to the task at hand? I think Yoda's a pretty wise little green guy, and he presented himself to suit the situation. I suppose. I can see the logic in your point "(in Ben Kenobi voice) from a certain point of view". I would've been fine with a more serene, enlightening Yoda - like the one who gave the "luminous beings only" speech in TESB. To me he showed up like he was ready to start a conga line party. At the risk of being cynical it seemed like what he really wanted to say was "Yay! Rey means no more training and no more teachings! All of that stuff I taught you and spent almost a thousand years learning and teaching was a total waste of time! Let's party by burning some books!" The only saving grace in that whole scene was Yoda's comment at the end that we learn more from our failures/mistakes. But even that piece of sage advice is not exactly exposition on wisdom of the Force. |
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