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Post by gomezaddams666 on Feb 17, 2018 16:22:20 GMT
I think it can be done, but it has to be done right. The Pig's Bay scene in X-Men: First Class where Erik says "I will no longer be at the mercy of people following orders" was a true testament on what the X-Men are all about. X-Men have always been persecuted for being different since their inception, and I think some movies have done it right and ti a point Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. did it right with its Inhumans. Marvel's Luke Cage had a very open and honest conversation about politics and race, it tackled police brutality, gangs, black on black crime, poverty.. and I think it did it magnificently. You asked about Winter Soldier, I think it was bold yet entertaining enough to pass the message it needed, that movie had a soul that no matter what political spectrum you identify with you cab understand Steve Rogers in trying not to be controlled by Big Brother. Ryan Coogler's Black Panther has a more "n your face" approach that i think can rub some people wrong, it did me. It's not even trying to have a political discussion is more like "This is how it is, deal with it." It feels one-sided. well said. first class was a deeper movie than BP what helps first class is eric and charles are intellectual, discussing their problems until it escalates. and my gosh. look at the visual here and also the calmness of magneto. killmonger came off as a spoilt entitled kid. He is Loki, he is not magneto at all. one thing magneto ,T'challia, Xavier all have is leadership talents. Killmonger displayed none. very much like Loki. I hate to say this but to compare the final arc of BP vs KillMonger to first class is ridiculous. this proof is here with this video. marvel ruins things again with ooc bad cgi for black panther. BP was a movie with potential but brought down by the mcu formula as predicted. Agreed, First Class was amazing because you can identify with Magneto, you can almost root for him. I compare him to Helmut Zemo in Civil War because you feel for Zemo's loss and understand his motivations. Killmonger is polarizing, an angry child. Killmonger is more like Whiplash from Iron Man 2.
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Post by summers8 on Feb 17, 2018 16:23:02 GMT
you are wrong (lieing) as usual and so desperate and as always you drop the ball. the reverse opposite is true. xmen went further and deeper. BP overall had a predictable plot. I know michael b jordan said he was inspired by magneto but in the end he was more Loki than Magneto. the problem with BP is when killmonger came, he became the villain straight up and everyone wanted to overthrow him, also he lacked charm and reason. something magneto has. non saw reason with him unlike xmen where even wolverine see reasons with magneto. unlike xmen were both xavier and magneto have a balance of mutants on their side and are actual friends. Killmonger was a straight up enemy to Black Panther and that strips the depth away. LOL, did not take time did it? to start pulling this nonsense. just enjoy the black empowerment of BP. once you take that away and place it among other comic films, you are looking at Thor 1. this movie did not go as deep as an xmen movie or batman begins dealing with corruption. Read the user reviews to see the facts.Once again with BP. it has become more clear MCU will struggle with xmen movies. ![](https://s26.postimg.org/7d754nzix/clap.gif) Killmonger was more like Whiplash to be honest why, thank you. You should watch out for thatguy, he has a hatred for xmen because xmen always makes mcu look awful. so as you see, he lied straight up about xmen movies. He once also said something as idiotic as magneto is a rip off dr doom and DOFP (1981) is a rip of T2 (1991) when he had no other valid opinions to defend why most mcu movies are garbage compared to xmen or the nolan movies. feel sorry film almost but I blame disney-marvel more than I blame him for this type of unfortunate behaviour and unsound reason.
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Post by summers8 on Feb 17, 2018 16:29:14 GMT
well said. first class was a deeper movie than BP what helps first class is eric and charles are intellectual, discussing their problems until it escalates. and my gosh. look at the visual here and also the calmness of magneto. killmonger came off as a spoilt entitled kid. He is Loki, he is not magneto at all. one thing magneto ,T'challia, Xavier all have is leadership talents. Killmonger displayed none. very much like Loki. I hate to say this but to compare the final arc of BP vs KillMonger to first class is ridiculous. this proof is here with this video. marvel ruins things again with ooc bad cgi for black panther. BP was a movie with potential but brought down by the mcu formula as predicted. Agreed, First Class was amazing because you can identify with Magneto, you can almost root for him. I compare him to Helmut Zemo in Civil War because you feel for Zemo's loss and understand his motivations. Killmonger is polarizing, an angry child. Killmonger is more like Whiplash from Iron Man 2. If BP even had a scene like this , the movie would have gone from good to great. I cannot get over this scene from first class. the acting the intellectual clash the cinematography the charm magneto brings. Xavier's compassion Magneto's realism. you took the words out of my mouth, Killmonger is more polarizing. if we want more proof , many good mutants split from xavier to join magneto. in BP, the entire wakanda rise up to over throw killmonger asap. the exact same thing in thor 1 when loki takes the throne and the asgardians rise up to overthrow him and bring thor back.
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Post by gomezaddams666 on Feb 17, 2018 16:36:08 GMT
![](https://s26.postimg.org/7d754nzix/clap.gif) Killmonger was more like Whiplash to be honest why, thank you. You should watch out for thatguy, he has a hatred for xmen because xmen always makes mcu look awful. so as you see, he lied straight up about xmen movies. He once also said something as idiotic as magneto is a ripp of dr doom and DOFP (1981) is a rip of T2 (1991) when he had no other valid opinions to defend why most mcu movies are garbage compared to xmen or the nolan movies. feel sorry film almost but I blame disney-marvel more than I blame him for this type of unfortunate behaviour and unsound reason. But see, i actually like the MCU, a lot. I am a huge fan of their movies and I think some have been amazing like Iron Man, The Avengers, Captain America: Civil war, Doctor Strange. Doctor strange even introduced us to Mordo and you can actually relate to why he eventually becomes the main villain. As for X-Men movies I hate X-Men: Apocalypse and X-Men Origins Wolverine. But I appreciate First Class as criminally underrated. It is my favorite X-Men movie. I think both sagas are good. I will say both have errors but i do love the MCU. I think Killmonger is more like Whiplash, an angry child pissed off of how his father was treated by the hero's father and now wants to bring him down.
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Post by summers8 on Feb 17, 2018 16:43:23 GMT
why, thank you. You should watch out for thatguy, he has a hatred for xmen because xmen always makes mcu look awful. so as you see, he lied straight up about xmen movies. He once also said something as idiotic as magneto is a ripp of dr doom and DOFP (1981) is a rip of T2 (1991) when he had no other valid opinions to defend why most mcu movies are garbage compared to xmen or the nolan movies. feel sorry film almost but I blame disney-marvel more than I blame him for this type of unfortunate behaviour and unsound reason. But see, i actually like the MCU, a lot. I am a huge fan of their movies and I think some have been amazing like Iron Man, The Avengers, Captain America: Civil war, Doctor Strange. Doctor strange even introduced us to Mordo and you can actually relate to why he eventually becomes the main villain. As for X-Men movies I hate X-Men: Apocalypse and X-Men Origins Wolverine. But I appreciate First Class as criminally underrated. It is my favorite X-Men movie. I think both sagas are good. I will say both have errors but i do love the MCU. I think Killmonger is more like Whiplash, an angry child pissed off of how his father was treated by the hero's father and now wants to bring him down. As a film fan that just liked and read marvel comics, I don't like any marvel stuff post disney era. disney really destroyed marvel from an artistic stand point. Black Panther is a good film but the marvel formula ruined its potential. the black heritage of the movie is what saves it.
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Post by ThatGuy on Feb 17, 2018 16:53:31 GMT
But it was only in your face in presenting that discussion. Because there were people on both sides giving valid arguments about it. The one thing that Black Panther did that X-men didn't do (because they want to keep doing the same thing for every movie) was give a compromising solution. And a better comparison would be X-men: Apocalypse or even DoFP. Xavier holed up in the mansion keeping mutants safe from outsiders while not doing anything about the mutants out in the world because "they aren't our people" (not wanting to start the X-men to help). you are wrong (lieing) as usual and so desperate and as always you drop the ball. the reverse opposite is true. xmen went further and deeper. BP overall had a predictable plot. I know michael b jordan said he was inspired by magneto but in the end he was more Loki than Magneto. the problem with BP is when killmonger came, he became the villain straight up and everyone wanted to overthrow him, also he lacked charm and reason. something magneto has. non saw reason with him unlike xmen where even wolverine see reasons with magneto. unlike xmen were both xavier and magneto have a balance of mutants on their side and are actual friends. Killmonger was a straight up enemy to Black Panther and that strips the depth away. LOL, did not take time did it? to start pulling this nonsense. just enjoy the black empowerment of BP. once you take that away and place it among other comic films, you are looking at Thor 1. this movie did not go as deep as an xmen movie or batman begins dealing with corruption. Read the user reviews to see the facts.Once again with BP. it has become more clear MCU will struggle with xmen movies. Sad part about you is that you see what I'm saying as a bad thing.
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Post by gomezaddams666 on Feb 17, 2018 16:53:44 GMT
As a film fan that just liked and read marvel comics, I don't like any marvel stuff post disney era. disney really destroyed marvel from an artistic stand point. We can disagree, I Love the MCUBut see, you have to be "woke", you have to care about political issues concerning black people to enjoy the film, therefore it is polarizing.
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Post by summers8 on Feb 17, 2018 17:01:56 GMT
you are wrong (lieing) as usual and so desperate and as always you drop the ball. the reverse opposite is true. xmen went further and deeper. BP overall had a predictable plot. I know michael b jordan said he was inspired by magneto but in the end he was more Loki than Magneto. the problem with BP is when killmonger came, he became the villain straight up and everyone wanted to overthrow him, also he lacked charm and reason. something magneto has. non saw reason with him unlike xmen where even wolverine see reasons with magneto. unlike xmen were both xavier and magneto have a balance of mutants on their side and are actual friends. Killmonger was a straight up enemy to Black Panther and that strips the depth away. LOL, did not take time did it? to start pulling this nonsense. just enjoy the black empowerment of BP. once you take that away and place it among other comic films, you are looking at Thor 1. this movie did not go as deep as an xmen movie or batman begins dealing with corruption. Read the user reviews to see the facts.Once again with BP. it has become more clear MCU will struggle with xmen movies. Sad part about you is that you see what I'm saying as a bad thing. As I said, just drop it and let's all celebrate black excellence because that is what saves the movie. I admire michael b jordan for saying he was inspired by magneto but mcu made Killmonger more like Loki in the end to stick to their formula.
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Post by ThatGuy on Feb 17, 2018 17:08:39 GMT
Not what I'm saying. Killmonger and Magneto are the same type of politically and socially motivated villains that want to get into a position to affect the world because of a tragedy in their past. The only difference is one is internal to external while the other is external. Zemo is a better comparison to who? Because Killmonger would be a mix of them both. He was Zemo in destabilizing Wakanda so he could become Magneto in helping the world by any means. Difference being that Zemo and Magneto are actually likable, and you don't have to have a political ideology to like them. And I think in certain occasions you can even root for those two, but I don't think the majority can root for a maniac that wants to just go and kill people because of daddy issues. You have to be "woke" as you call it and your personal politics must be aligned in a certain way to like Killmmonger, therefore not a great villain taht everyone can appreciate. He didn't want to go kill people because of daddy issues. He got what he wanted because of lineage to go out and do what he thought was right. Yes he was a maniac (something done to him by the government) but so is Magneto. And Magneto did it all because of mommy issues. His initial drive was because Shaw killed his mother. Wakanda had cells all over the world and Killmonger knew this and was going to use this to get back at the world (U.S. mostly) for their treatment of blacks (that same shift that Magneto made at the end of First Class). And neither Zemo nor Magneto were likeable. You just sympathized with them because you can see where they come from. Maybe if it was Serkis playing the character he would be likeable.
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Post by ThatGuy on Feb 17, 2018 17:10:33 GMT
Sad part about you is that you see what I'm saying as a bad thing. As I said, just drop it and let's all celebrate black excellence because that is what saves the movie. I admire michael b jordan for saying he was inspired by magneto but mcu made Killmonger more like Loki in the end to stick to their formula. Killmonger was nothing like Loki. Loki wanted the throne. Killmonger wanted a platform.
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Post by summers8 on Feb 17, 2018 17:10:47 GMT
As a film fan that just liked and read marvel comics, I don't like any marvel stuff post disney era. disney really destroyed marvel from an artistic stand point. We can disagree, I Love the MCUBut see, you have to be "woke", you have to care about political issues concerning black people to enjoy the film, therefore it is polarizing. See, I have never really gotten that. Morgan Freeman said it best that black history is american history. You do not have to be black to enjoy the film though blacks can feel a spiritual connection to the film but any american can enjoy the film because racism is america's history. so it should not be polarizing that much if you are not a racist. the problem is disney, left wing and right wing trolls have created a toxic race bating environment where everyone is getting burnt. From the box office results, blacks are driving the film by a whopping 40% . let all hope the movie has legs and they keep coming back, I fear many whites may silently become absent in coming weeks and avoid the film due to the toxic racial political climate.
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Post by gomezaddams666 on Feb 17, 2018 18:41:53 GMT
the problem is disney, left wing and right wing trolls have created a toxic race bating environment where everyone is getting burnt. From the box office results, blacks are driving the film by a whopping 40% . let all hope the movie has legs and they keep coming back, I fear many whites may silently become absent in coming weeks and avoid the film due to the toxic racial political climate. I think that this weekend will be real huge, but withe the movie being so politically driven as it is, I don't know how the second weekend will be around the world. I have already seen a discontent from people that feel that disliking the movie will prompt them to be called racists and shit, so we'll see.
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Post by gomezaddams666 on Feb 17, 2018 18:46:45 GMT
And neither Zemo nor Magneto were likeable. You just sympathized with them because you can see where they come from. Maybe if it was Serkis playing the character he would be likeable. I think Klaue is such a force to be reckoned with in the comics that he could have been a better villain, not the kind you identify with but the just asshole "I want them to hurt him" good. I think that ending him in such a way was a disservice and a big fuck you to comic boo fans that were glad to see him on Age of Ultron. As for motivations I think Zemo and Magneto sell it much better than Killmonger. I think the political climate currently in the us and embeded into the movie did not help. I felt no sympathy for Killmonger, I did not feel anything for him nor did I sympathized with him or his father. The fact that they just had to show the 1992 riots actually turned me off completely from those characters.
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Post by formersamhmd on Feb 17, 2018 18:49:46 GMT
But it was only in your face in presenting that discussion. Because there were people on both sides giving valid arguments about it. The one thing that Black Panther did that X-men didn't do (because they want to keep doing the same thing for every movie) was give a compromising solution. And a better comparison would be X-men: Apocalypse or even DoFP. Xavier holed up in the mansion keeping mutants safe from outsiders while not doing anything about the mutants out in the world because "they aren't our people" (not wanting to start the X-men to help). you are wrong (lieing) as usual and so desperate and as always you drop the ball. the reverse opposite is true. xmen went further and deeper. BP overall had a predictable plot. I know michael b jordan said he was inspired by magneto but in the end he was more Loki than Magneto. the problem with BP is when killmonger came, he became the villain straight up and everyone wanted to overthrow him, also he lacked charm and reason. something magneto has. non saw reason with him unlike xmen where even wolverine see reasons with magneto. unlike xmen were both xavier and magneto have a balance of mutants on their side and are actual friends. Killmonger was a straight up enemy to Black Panther and that strips the depth away. LOL, did not take time did it? to start pulling this nonsense. just enjoy the black empowerment of BP. once you take that away and place it among other comic films, you are looking at Thor 1. this movie did not go as deep as an xmen movie or batman begins dealing with corruption. Read the user reviews to see the facts.Once again with BP. it has become more clear MCU will struggle with xmen movies. X-Men takes the most banal way out, bringing up things like the Holocaust when the Holocaust has nothing to do with the Mutant situation. BP's plot isn't that boring. Magneto has no charm, the writers keep falling back on the "He's a Holocaust survivor so that justifies everything he does" when he doesn't. And they make the story really be about him instead of the X-Men. BP doesn't forget the story is always about T'Challa. The X-Men are written like morons to side with Magneto. Xavier should've given up on him years ago but he won't because he's a fool. X-Men doesn't deal with real issues, it pays lip service to them and uses stuff like the Holocaust the get attention. BP dealt with issues like racial oppression and isolationism way more. Batman doesn't deal with real issues either.
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Post by formersamhmd on Feb 17, 2018 18:50:12 GMT
I guess they can't win then. Because on one side you have the X-men crowd crying about themes not being the main focus. But when it is the main focus, it's too much. I think it can be done, but it has to be done right. The Pig's Bay scene in X-Men: First Class where Erik says "I will no longer be at the mercy of people following orders" was a true testament on what the X-Men are all about. X-Men's exploitation of the Holocaust has always been disgraceful.
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Post by formersamhmd on Feb 17, 2018 18:53:33 GMT
![](https://s26.postimg.org/7d754nzix/clap.gif) Killmonger was more like Whiplash to be honest why, thank you. You should watch out for thatguy, he has a hatred for xmen because xmen always makes mcu look awful. so as you see, he lied straight up about xmen movies. He once also said something as idiotic as magneto is a rip off dr doom and DOFP (1981) is a rip of T2 (1991) when he had no other valid opinions to defend why most mcu movies are garbage compared to xmen or the nolan movies. feel sorry film almost but I blame disney-marvel more than I blame him for this type of unfortunate behaviour and unsound reason. No, the X-Men movies are just holdovers from an older time when people were more ashamed of comics. And FoX-Fans hate the MCU for making people be unashamed. And yes, Magneto in the comics didn't become a deeper character until the 80s. Before that he WAS a Dr Doom knock-off. If you knew comics you'd know this.
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Post by gomezaddams666 on Feb 17, 2018 18:55:56 GMT
I think it can be done, but it has to be done right. The Pig's Bay scene in X-Men: First Class where Erik says "I will no longer be at the mercy of people following orders" was a true testament on what the X-Men are all about. X-Men's exploitation of the Holocaust has always been disgraceful. Oh and Black Panther doesn't exploit race politics? That 1992 rito footage was not exploitative at all.
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Post by formersamhmd on Feb 17, 2018 18:56:21 GMT
Agreed, First Class was amazing because you can identify with Magneto, you can almost root for him. I compare him to Helmut Zemo in Civil War because you feel for Zemo's loss and understand his motivations. Killmonger is polarizing, an angry child. Killmonger is more like Whiplash from Iron Man 2. If BP even had a scene like this A scene that makes it clear the filmmaker didn't care about the protagonist? Banal. Erik is only sympathetic because he kills Nazis, that's as bankrupt as you get. All Garbage. Xavier shouldn't sympathize with this man, and the writers are uninterested in any character but Magneto because they're creatively bankrupt. Because they're fools. Because they're not fools. Because they aren't idiots.
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Post by formersamhmd on Feb 17, 2018 18:58:08 GMT
See, I have never really gotten that. Morgan Freeman said it best that black history is american history. It's not. There's more to Blacks than America. No, it's backwards folks who can't accept the world has moved on.
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Post by formersamhmd on Feb 17, 2018 18:59:27 GMT
X-Men's exploitation of the Holocaust has always been disgraceful. Oh and Black Panther doesn't exploit race politics? Not as badly, no. X-Men tries to say that the Mutant thing is the same as the Holocaust when it isn't, at all. They use Holocaust imagery at every opportunity. Magneto is Holocaust Exploitation made flesh. Plus, there's only one BP movie doing this as opposed to X-Men just doing over and over and over. And bringing back the same villain again and again and again. It explained T'Challa's Uncles' mindset and motivations.
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