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Post by Vassaggo on Mar 3, 2018 14:07:38 GMT
And? What's wrong with that? A fictional nation has a barbaric ritual in a superhero movie...what of it? He keeps ignoring that it's because their Panther God told them to do things that way, and we know their mysticism and God are real. It's no different from how the Amazons still have a Monarchy and stuff in WW because their Gods told them to be that way. It's almost as if in real life people don't follow barbaric rituals from their god. You know a tradition that is still held to day. Something that started out in a Bronze Age Religion that crossed over to mainstream. People came up with other reasons to do the ritual. It's the covenant of Abrahamic Religions. The practice of mutilating male genitalia when they are infants. We call it circumcision, but really it's an unnecessary mutilation of babies. And this happens in the US a technological advanced civilization. Unlike in real life though, Wakandans have actual proof their god exists. Where as in real life they follow their gods on faith alone. No actual contact unlike the Panther God. |
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Surly
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Post by Surly on Mar 3, 2018 23:20:57 GMT
The example you provide refers to technology, so of course it wouldn't make sense for a movie set in the modern day to have characters use decades old equipment. It's different with Black Panther though, if they want to fight to decide who becomes King then why not? They're fictional characters in a fictional land, they can have whatever rules they want. It doesn't matter if our civilisation has advanced. The movie wasn't about our civilisation, it's about a made up one. So they can have it both ways. It isn't just technology. Wakanda is barbaric and savage because they still hold on to barbaric and savage rituals. You obviously still don't get the point so I'll make it simple to understand. A long, long time ago, it used to be the normal if someone was caught stealing, the punishment was that they get their hand chopped off. But civilized societies don't do that anymore because that's barbaric and savage. If Wakanda still punished thieves by chopping off their hand, then that would mean Wakanda is definitely not an advanced or civilized nation because advanced or civilized nations don't hold on to such barbaric and savage traditions. That's why Black Panther really is a movie deserving of a 1/10 rating. Because the writers can't figure out if Wakanda should be advanced or primitive.
Wakanda has all this technology, but they still hold on to a barbaric and savage ritual of choosing a King by mortal combat (which no advanced or civilized nation today does) and their armies were still fighting with swords at the end of the movie. Klaue basically had a ray gun strapped to his wrist, yet the best weapons that a technologically advanced nation like Wakanda can come up with are primitive, medieval weapons? That doesn't make any sense at all and that's another reason why Black Panther deserves a 1/10 rating.The only problem with your take on this is - this kind of dichotomy has existed in history. You think that savagery and technology can't coexist. But it did in the Roman Empire. The Romans weapons, armor, and battle strategy had a head start on some nations of approximately 500 years. And when their empire collapsed it set back personal hygiene in the Western world for a thousand years! Yet they entertained themselves with savage competitions and gory executions in the Roman arena. Their eating habits were to consume food until you were so stuffed that you puked, then go back for more! Dichotomies of savagery and technological advances and civicness have already existed in human history. |
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Post by blockbusted on Mar 3, 2018 23:49:44 GMT
It isn't just technology. Wakanda is barbaric and savage because they still hold on to barbaric and savage rituals. You obviously still don't get the point so I'll make it simple to understand. A long, long time ago, it used to be the normal if someone was caught stealing, the punishment was that they get their hand chopped off. But civilized societies don't do that anymore because that's barbaric and savage. If Wakanda still punished thieves by chopping off their hand, then that would mean Wakanda is definitely not an advanced or civilized nation because advanced or civilized nations don't hold on to such barbaric and savage traditions. That's why Black Panther really is a movie deserving of a 1/10 rating. Because the writers can't figure out if Wakanda should be advanced or primitive.
Wakanda has all this technology, but they still hold on to a barbaric and savage ritual of choosing a King by mortal combat (which no advanced or civilized nation today does) and their armies were still fighting with swords at the end of the movie. Klaue basically had a ray gun strapped to his wrist, yet the best weapons that a technologically advanced nation like Wakanda can come up with are primitive, medieval weapons? That doesn't make any sense at all and that's another reason why Black Panther deserves a 1/10 rating.] The only problem with your take on this is - this kind of dichotomy has existed in history. You think that savagery and technology can't coexist. But it did in the Roman Empire. The Romans weapons, armor, and battle strategy had a head start on some nations of approximately 500 years. And when their empire collapsed it set back personal hygiene in the Western world for a thousand years! Yet they entertained themselves with savage competitions and gory executions in the Roman arena. Their eating habits were to consume food until you were so stuffed that you puked, then go back for more! Dichotomies of savagery and technological advances and civicness have already existed in human history. "Roman Empire was from the ancient time, so it's okay. Wakanda is from our time, so 'Black Panther' deserves 1/10 on that ground only." - DC-Fan |
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Surly
Sophomore
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Post by Surly on Mar 3, 2018 23:57:45 GMT
The only problem with your take on this is - this kind of dichotomy has existed in history. You think that savagery and technology can't coexist. But it did in the Roman Empire. The Romans weapons, armor, and battle strategy had a head start on some nations of approximately 500 years. And when their empire collapsed it set back personal hygiene in the Western world for a thousand years! Yet they entertained themselves with savage competitions and gory executions in the Roman arena. Their eating habits were to consume food until you were so stuffed that you puked, then go back for more! Dichotomies of savagery and technological advances and civicness have already existed in human history. "Roman Empire was from the ancient time, so it's okay. Wakanda is from our time, so 'Black Panther' deserves 1/10 on that ground only." - DC-Fan That still doesn't change the fact that it happens in human history, so there's grounds for it. You could even make a case for the ancient Egyptians being somewhat of a dichotomy. Why would it not be able to happen in modern times? People are people. And it's already happened more than once in human history in different time periods. Someone might argue with modern times and globalization but the film already pointed out Wakanda's long history of isolation. So that could support it. |
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Post by Vassaggo on Mar 3, 2018 23:58:01 GMT
It isn't just technology. Wakanda is barbaric and savage because they still hold on to barbaric and savage rituals. You obviously still don't get the point so I'll make it simple to understand. A long, long time ago, it used to be the normal if someone was caught stealing, the punishment was that they get their hand chopped off. But civilized societies don't do that anymore because that's barbaric and savage. If Wakanda still punished thieves by chopping off their hand, then that would mean Wakanda is definitely not an advanced or civilized nation because advanced or civilized nations don't hold on to such barbaric and savage traditions. That's why Black Panther really is a movie deserving of a 1/10 rating. Because the writers can't figure out if Wakanda should be advanced or primitive.
Wakanda has all this technology, but they still hold on to a barbaric and savage ritual of choosing a King by mortal combat (which no advanced or civilized nation today does) and their armies were still fighting with swords at the end of the movie. Klaue basically had a ray gun strapped to his wrist, yet the best weapons that a technologically advanced nation like Wakanda can come up with are primitive, medieval weapons? That doesn't make any sense at all and that's another reason why Black Panther deserves a 1/10 rating.] The only problem with your take on this is - this kind of dichotomy has existed in history. You think that savagery and technology can't coexist. But it did in the Roman Empire. The Romans weapons, armor, and battle strategy had a head start on some nations of approximately 500 years. And when their empire collapsed it set back personal hygiene in the Western world for a thousand years! Yet they entertained themselves with savage competitions and gory executions in the Roman arena. Their eating habits were to consume food until you were so stuffed that you puked, then go back for more! Dichotomies of savagery and technological advances and civicness have already existed in human history. While I agree with your overall argument, I have to correct your misconception. (sorry I have a BA in History) Vomitorium doesn't mean what most people think of it. It is a myth that Romans were so decadent they would eat throw up and eat some more. Vomitorium does come from the latin vomere meaning to vomit or spew forth. In this context it's not talking about stomach contents, but about people moving. Vomitorium were passages, hallways or openings in a amphitheater where people would move to or from their seats. (to a lesser degree the term was used in larger homes) If you've ever gone to a modern day sports arena/stadium that is sold out when everyone leaves then you will see why they used that verb. It really seems like a spewing of people. Sorry I am so pedantic. |
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Surly
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Post by Surly on Mar 4, 2018 0:05:57 GMT
The only problem with your take on this is - this kind of dichotomy has existed in history. You think that savagery and technology can't coexist. But it did in the Roman Empire. The Romans weapons, armor, and battle strategy had a head start on some nations of approximately 500 years. And when their empire collapsed it set back personal hygiene in the Western world for a thousand years! Yet they entertained themselves with savage competitions and gory executions in the Roman arena. Their eating habits were to consume food until you were so stuffed that you puked, then go back for more! Dichotomies of savagery and technological advances and civicness have already existed in human history. While I agree with your overall argument, I have to correct your misconception. (sorry I have a BA in History) Vomitorium doesn't mean what most people think of it. It is a myth that Romans were so decadent they would eat throw up and eat some more. Vomitorium does come from the latin vomere meaning to vomit or spew forth. In this context it's not talking about stomach contents, but about people moving. Vomitorium were passages, hallways or openings in a amphitheater where people would move to or from their seats. (to a lesser degree the term was used in larger homes) If you've ever gone to a modern day sports arena/stadium that is sold out when everyone leaves then you will see why they used that verb. It really seems like a spewing of people. Sorry I am so pedantic. Hey no problem! Always glad to get an update on historical content. My noggin can handle a little ego bruise in the name of a more correct understanding. |
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Post by blockbusted on Mar 4, 2018 0:06:56 GMT
"Roman Empire was from the ancient time, so it's okay. Wakanda is from our time, so 'Black Panther' deserves 1/10 on that ground only." - DC-Fan That still doesn't change the fact that it happens in human history, so there's grounds for it. You could even make a case for the ancient Egyptians being somewhat of a dichotomy. Why would it not be able to happen in modern times? People are people. And it's already happened more than once in human history in different time periods. Someone might argue with modern times and globalization but the film already pointed out Wakanda's long history of isolation. So that could support it. I was simply saying that DC-Fan would say.  |
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Post by DC-Fan on Mar 4, 2018 4:49:57 GMT
If Wakanda still punished thieves by chopping off their hand, then that would mean Wakanda is definitely not an advanced or civilized nation because advanced or civilized nations don't hold on to such barbaric and savage traditions. But they don't do that... But they do choose a King by mortal combat, which is also barbaric and savage. That's my point. Whether it's chopping off someone's hand for stealing or choosing a King by mortal combat, both of those are barbaric and savage traditions that advanced and civilized societies in the 21st century don't do. So it makes no sense at all to say Wakanda is technologically advanced when they still hold on to barbaric and savage rituals in the 21st century. So you'd mean the comic writers as it was they who created the Black Panther and shaped the lore. The movie writers simply adapted what was in the comics. So your problem lies with the comics. Which again is exactly how it was in the comic which the movie is based upon. The spirit of the comics should be followed, but that doesn't mean it details that don't change the spirit of the comics can't be updated. For example, even though I think Iron Man sucked, I've never complained that Iron Man changed his origin from the comics to take place during the Gulf War instead of the Vietnam War. Changing the war didn't change the spirit of the story. Similarly, had the writers of Black Panther changed the contest to choose a King to a decathlon-style competition or to a physical-and-mental challenge instead of a barbaric and savage mortal combat, that would've been more fitting of a supposedly technologically advanced nation without changing the spirit of the comics and I would've given Black Panther a higher rating recognizing how stupid it is to have a supposedly technologically advanced nation still holding on to a barbaric and savage way to choose a King. If you're supposed to be the most technologically advanced nation in the world, how is it that you're too stupid to come up with a peaceful way to choose a leader that doesn't involve bloodshed, especially when most of the rest of the world has already done that? Wakanda is so far behind the rest of the world that it's just stupid to suggest they're technologically advanced. And that's why Black Panther is deserving of a 1/10 rating. They had advanced flying ships that looked like they came from Independence Day and the Black Panther suit. And yet, they were still fighting with swords and primitive weapons at the end of the movie. This wasn't some disagreement over the Accords like Civil War was. This was basically a battle for the future of their country. Did they not care enough about the future of their country to use the best weapons they had? Or are Wakandans just so stupid that they don't know what to do with all that technologically? That's probably it, because Wakandans have clearly proven that they're too stupid to come up with a peaceful way to choose a leader in the 21st century when most of the rest of the world has already done so. |
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Post by DC-Fan on Mar 4, 2018 4:52:19 GMT
It isn't just technology. Wakanda is barbaric and savage because they still hold on to barbaric and savage rituals. You obviously still don't get the point so I'll make it simple to understand. A long, long time ago, it used to be the normal if someone was caught stealing, the punishment was that they get their hand chopped off. But civilized societies don't do that anymore because that's barbaric and savage. If Wakanda still punished thieves by chopping off their hand, then that would mean Wakanda is definitely not an advanced or civilized nation because advanced or civilized nations don't hold on to such barbaric and savage traditions. That's why Black Panther really is a movie deserving of a 1/10 rating. Because the writers can't figure out if Wakanda should be advanced or primitive. Wakanda has all this technology, but they still hold on to a barbaric and savage ritual of choosing a King by mortal combat (which no advanced or civilized nation today does) and their armies were still fighting with swords at the end of the movie. Klaue basically had a ray gun strapped to his wrist, yet the best weapons that a technologically advanced nation like Wakanda can come up with are primitive, medieval weapons? That doesn't make any sense at all and that's another reason why Black Panther deserves a 1/10 rating. I mean we're talking about a piece of Africa that closed itself off from everyone. So Wakadans don't have Internet or satellite TV? If Wakanda is supposed to be the most technologically advanced nation in the world, how is it that Wakandans are too stupid to come up with a peaceful way to choose a leader in the 21st century, especially when most of the rest of the world has already done so? |
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 4, 2018 4:53:52 GMT
But they do choose a King by mortal combat, which is also barbaric and savage. That's my point. Whether it's chopping off someone's hand for stealing or choosing a King by mortal combat, both of those are barbaric and savage traditions that advanced and civilized societies in the 21st century don't do. If they had a very real God telling them to do so, like the Wakandans do, they would. You keep ignoring that. Tell that to DC. They have a real God telling them to do so. Easy. You must seriously hate the Jedi. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 4, 2018 4:54:15 GMT
I mean we're talking about a piece of Africa that closed itself off from everyone. So Wakadans don't have Internet or satellite TV? If Wakanda is supposed to be the most technologically advanced nation in the world, how is it that Wakandans are too stupid to come up with a peaceful way to choose a leader in the 21st century, especially when most of the rest of the world has already done so? They have a very Real God saying to do things a certain way. |
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Post by Nicko's Nose on Mar 4, 2018 4:54:21 GMT
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Post by DC-Fan on Mar 4, 2018 4:54:43 GMT
And? What's wrong with that? A fictional nation has a barbaric ritual in a superhero movie...what of it? He keeps ignoring that it's because their Panther God told them to do things that way, and we know their mysticism and God are real. It's no different from how the Amazons still have a Monarchy and stuff in WW because their Gods told them to be that way. A Panther God whom T'Challa and the rest of the Wakandans have never met and thus is as much a myth or legend as Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster. Unlike Zeus, whom Hippolyta has actually met and knows that Zeus really exists. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 4, 2018 4:54:48 GMT
He keeps ignoring the Panther God... |
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 4, 2018 4:55:23 GMT
He keeps ignoring that it's because their Panther God told them to do things that way, and we know their mysticism and God are real. It's no different from how the Amazons still have a Monarchy and stuff in WW because their Gods told them to be that way. A Panther God whom T'Challa and the rest of the Wakandans Know is real thanks to their very real Mysticism and being able to speak with Ancestors who can attest to the Panther God. |
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Post by DC-Fan on Mar 4, 2018 4:56:49 GMT
He keeps ignoring that it's because their Panther God told them to do things that way, and we know their mysticism and God are real. It's no different from how the Amazons still have a Monarchy and stuff in WW because their Gods told them to be that way. Wakandans have actual proof their god exists. Wakandans have no proof that their so-called Panther God exists. All Wakandans have are stories passed down from generation to generation. For Wakandans, the Panther God is as much a myth or legend as Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster. |
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Post by DC-Fan on Mar 4, 2018 5:08:06 GMT
It isn't just technology. Wakanda is barbaric and savage because they still hold on to barbaric and savage rituals. You obviously still don't get the point so I'll make it simple to understand. A long, long time ago, it used to be the normal if someone was caught stealing, the punishment was that they get their hand chopped off. But civilized societies don't do that anymore because that's barbaric and savage. If Wakanda still punished thieves by chopping off their hand, then that would mean Wakanda is definitely not an advanced or civilized nation because advanced or civilized nations don't hold on to such barbaric and savage traditions. That's why Black Panther really is a movie deserving of a 1/10 rating. Because the writers can't figure out if Wakanda should be advanced or primitive.
Wakanda has all this technology, but they still hold on to a barbaric and savage ritual of choosing a King by mortal combat (which no advanced or civilized nation today does) and their armies were still fighting with swords at the end of the movie. Klaue basically had a ray gun strapped to his wrist, yet the best weapons that a technologically advanced nation like Wakanda can come up with are primitive, medieval weapons? That doesn't make any sense at all and that's another reason why Black Panther deserves a 1/10 rating.The only problem with your take on this is - this kind of dichotomy has existed in history. You think that savagery and technology can't coexist. But it did in the Roman Empire. The Romans weapons, armor, and battle strategy had a head start on some nations of approximately 500 years. And when their empire collapsed it set back personal hygiene in the Western world for a thousand years! Yet they entertained themselves with savage competitions and gory executions in the Roman arena. Their eating habits were to consume food until you were so stuffed that you puked, then go back for more! Dichotomies of savagery and technological advances and civicness have already existed in human history. The ancient Romans weren't really technologically advanced or have advanced weapons. They didn't have guns or tanks. They fought battles with swords and shields and bows and arrows and horses and chariots just like their enemies did. The ancient Romans just had smarter generals, like Julius Caesar. In fact, it's precisely because the ancient Romans weren't technologically advanced that they entertained themselves with savage competitions and gory executions in the Colisseum. Let's face it. Life in ancient Rome must've been pretty boring. No TV, no movies, no Internet, no technology. And if you wanted to take a vacation, you couldn't just get in your car and drive somewhere or get on a plane and fly somewhere. You had to travel by horse, and your horse could only travel so far in a day. There was no technology in ancient Rome and the only "sporting event" you could watch in Rome was gladiators fighting. So it's precisely because the ancient Romans weren't technologically advanced and thus had no other form of entertainment that they had to entertain themselves by watching gladiators fight. But in the 21st century, there's TV, movies, Internet. If you wanted to take a vacation halfway around the world, you could fly there in less than a full day. And plenty of sporting events to watch. So it's just stupid for a nation that's supposedly technologically advanced to still resort to choosing a leader by such a barbaric and savage tradition. If you're supposedly the most technologically advanced nation in the world, how is it that none of your citizens are smart enough to come up with a peaceful way to choose a leader in the 21st century that doesn't involve bloodshed, especially when most of the rest of the world has already done so? It just doesn't make any sense at all, and that's 1 of the reasons why Black Panther deserves a 1/10 rating. |
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Post by scabab on Mar 4, 2018 5:14:00 GMT
So it makes no sense at all to say Wakanda is technologically advanced when they still hold on to barbaric and savage rituals in the 21st century. They are technologically advanced though, there's no debating that. So they also fight to decide who should be King at the same time. Why would that not make sense? In a fictional land they can have whatever rules they wish to have. It doesn't have to follow real life logic. Similarly, had the writers of Black Panther changed the contest to choose a King to a decathlon-style competition or to a physical-and-mental challenge instead of a barbaric and savage mortal combat, that would've been more fitting of a supposedly technologically advanced nation without changing the spirit of the comics That wouldn't be entertaining then which is the entire point of a superhero blockbuster movie. People don't want to see characters doing long jumps or throwing discs to decide who would be a King. That would be silly, boring and too long for the movie. A fight is short, to the point and action packed. Ideal for this kind of movie with the added bonus of being exactly like the comic. And yet, they were still fighting with swords and primitive weapons at the end of the movie. Because those are the weapons that once again they use in the comics. They do use primitive weapons, made of Vibranium or not, they still use spears. Batman has a technologically advanced Batplane but he still throws Bat shaped pieces of metal at people because that is also what he does in the comic. All of your criticism boils down to the comic. |
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Post by DC-Fan on Mar 4, 2018 5:18:44 GMT
But they do choose a King by mortal combat, which is also barbaric and savage. That's my point. Whether it's chopping off someone's hand for stealing or choosing a King by mortal combat, both of those are barbaric and savage traditions that advanced and civilized societies in the 21st century don't do. If they had a very real God telling them to do so, like the Wakandans do, they would. You keep ignoring that. They have a real God telling them to do so. Wakandans don't have a real God. They only have stories passed down from generation to generation as myths or legend, like Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster. |
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Post by DC-Fan on Mar 4, 2018 5:20:22 GMT
A Panther God whom T'Challa and the rest of the Wakandans being able to speak with Ancestors who can attest to the Panther God. Hallucinations. They're not speaking to their Ancestors. They're hallucinating due to effects of the flower drug. Many other people who have taken drugs have had similar hallucinations. |
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