|
Post by dazz on May 16, 2019 1:34:55 GMT
Isnt your first statement kind of counter to what you are saying, Hillary won the majority of the votes, Trump simply won more points or whatever due to winning more places but not people, so the majority actually didn't get what they wanted. Trump did win the majority of votes for POTUS. IN the US, the people don't actually vote for POTUS. The Electoral College votes for POTUS. There are 538 electors in the Electoral College who vote for POTUS. Traump won the majority of those 538 votes. people didn't want the accords, atleast not that we saw, the UN decided that without a vote The UN doesn't decide anything without a vote. Neither the US nor China nor Russia nor any other country can just decide to pass a UN resolution without the UN voting for it. The UN is made up of hundreds of member countries and those member countries vote on UN resolutions. The UN voted in favor of the Accords. But even then the accords should not be allowed to force anyone into action they do not wish to take, it's one thing to pass a law preventing someone doing something they want, it's another passing a law forcing someone to do something they do not want, that is taking away their right to choose in itself So you're saying that passing a law forcing someone to do something they don't want, such as something like paying taxes, shouldn't be allowed just because most people don't want to pay taxes or would choose to not pay taxes? What about laws for speed limits? Some drivers don't want to be restricted by a speed limit so should speed limit laws also not be allowed just because some people don't want it? The Accords were an extreme response to an incident, instead of demanding control over the Avengers the goal should have been joint operations with them, to where the Avengers should have the ability to act on their own accords so long as they are granted that freedom by independent nations, or when granted such by the UN, so if the US chooses to allow the Avengers the right to operate within their borders they can do so without UN approval so long as them meet the request of the US in doing so, ie working in conjuncture with the FBI, DEA, SHIELD whoever's jurisdiction their current operations overlap with, or if the nation refuses but the UN grants them approval they then need to work alongside the UN's forces, providing oversight to their actions but not controlling them. If the cops were recklessly chasing Crossbones through a crowded market and the cops tried to apprehend Crossbones but ended up causing the deaths of many civilians, there would be a demand for the government to get involved and take action to ensure that in the future the cops don't act so recklessly and unnecessarily put civilian lives in danger. But you're saying the Avengers should get a free pass for their reckless actions that caused the deaths of many civilians simply because the Avengers have super-powers and thus shouldn't have to answer to or be held accountable by the people, who are less powerful? You MCU fans who defend Steve Rogers' tyranny and refusal to sign the Accords keep forgetting that the people aren't there to serve the Avengers like the Avengers ae gods. Like cops and law enforcement officers, the Avengers are supposed to serve and protect the people. And when the Avengers act recklessly and unnecessarily cause the deaths of many civilians, they definitely aren't serving or protecting the people so the government has a duty to the people to get involved and take action to ensure in the future that the Avengers don't act so recklessly again and unnecessarily put civilian lives in danger. But Steve Rogers doesn't want the government to have oversight of the Avengers because Rogers is a tyrant who wants to rule over the people rather than be judged by or held accountable by the people. Yet still the majority of Americans voted democrat, yet you got a republican leader, so the majority did not get what they wanted the minority did.
As for the UN I was referring to a vote via the people, what if 90% of the worlds population were willing to abide by the Avengers having total autonomy over their actions because the Avengers have repeatedly stopped massive global threats, terrorist organisations and other supervillains, should the 10% who don't like it really get to dictate this, and should the UN take such a sweeping action based on the wants of such a small minority of the people? they clearly rushed it seeing as how even Tony says they can hammer out the legal stuff later, meaning the accords weren't even fully realised yet, but the over bearing scope is what gave Cap cause for concern.
And speed limits are not the same thing, you are comparing someone wanting to drive 100mph to Steve not wanting to be used as a tool wherever the UN wanted to send him, he wasn't being given a choice of retire or do the job this way, which is what choice you get in driving, follow the laws or you don't get to drive, and not a mandate where everyone must drive and can only do so this way.
And where did I say they should not be given oversight my whole point was that instead of trying to control the Avengers the accords should have been about working with them, giving them oversight, limitations and restrictions, there is a difference between saying to someone you can only go where you are permitted to and then saying you can only go where you are sent, one gives the Avengers input and control over their actions whilst keeping them from doing whatever the hell they please, the other does what Steve was afraid of and makes them nothing but weapons to be used, police officers can quit if they don't like new policies and restrictions, they can choose to retire if they no longer wish to serve on the force, the accords stripped the Avengers of that, they work period for the government or are declared criminals even if they aren't getting involved that's a big fucking difference you constantly overlook from Steve's pov.
Which BTW I am not on Cap's side I think he was being a prick and think ultimately he's being selfish in CW, but that doesn't make him a tyrant or dictator or any of the other moronic things you label him, as we saw in the film Cap almost goes along with Tony, he's just weary of trusting some agency that may or may not hold the same values as he does or could try to use them for an agenda, the Avengers don't have an agenda they aren't looking to collect favours or manipulate situations to their benefit, they want to stop bad guys doing bad things and protect people Tony out of his own pocket provides the means and resources for them to do so, none of them are making millions from it, using their celebrity for a payday, they do their best to help people and that's it, but Cap takes it too far he doesn't listen to Tony's point that without limits what makes them different to the bad guys? bad guys often think they have good intentions, just look at Thanos for that, Cap was short sighted and stubborn and he should have signed the accords and hammered out their restrictions and freedoms better like Tony wanted, doesn't make him the stupid crap you come out with.
Also one of the Avengers is a god you idiot or did you forget Thor? the GOD of thunder?
|
|
|
Post by dazz on May 16, 2019 1:37:07 GMT
If Steve Rogers truly was a Power-Hungry Tyrant, why didn't he keep the Infinity Stones to himself? Because he knew he could snap his fingers using the Infinity Stones without doing damage to himself. With the fake grenade incident, he knew that was a fake grenade so he knew he wouldn't be damaged by the fake grenade. But with the Infinity Stones, he knew that snapping his fingers with the Infinity Stones would do serious damage to himself so there was no point in keeping the Infinity Stones when he knew he couldn't snap his fingers with the Infinity Stones anyway. BOOM! This is borderline retarded...scratch that it completely retarded you utter moron.
|
|
|
Post by sostie on May 16, 2019 1:50:38 GMT
Except POTUS didn't order the strike. The World Security Council..remember that group of International representatives that gave the order And that's another example of awful writing in MCU movies. Because the World Security Council didn't have the authority to order a nuclear strike and no USAF pilot would launch on nuclear missile without orders from POTUS. And since Nick Fury also didn't have the authority to veto a nuclear strike, that entire scene of the Council and Fury arguing about the use of nuclear missiles was unnecessary and pointless since only the POTUS can make that decision. 1) This isn't reality, it is a work of fiction, your complaints are ridiculous 2) There are no USAF insignia on any of the S.H.I.E.L.D. aircraft on the S.H.I.E.L.D. helecarrier 3) owned
|
|
|
Post by DC-Fan on May 16, 2019 1:57:37 GMT
Even if he did know, why did only he know? Why did only he know how to get the flag down from the flagpole. Because he's supposedly more observant than the other trainees. That's why he was observant enough to see the Colonel take the fake grenade from the box labeled "Training Grenades" and toss it. Why was only he willing to bet his life that it was fake just to look brave? Because he was the only one observant enough to see the Colonel take the fake grenade from the box labeled "Training Grenades" and thus the only one of the trainees who knew the grenade was fake.
|
|
|
Post by DC-Fan on May 16, 2019 2:08:37 GMT
he wasn't being given a choice of retire or do the job this way, which is what choice you get in driving, follow the laws or you don't get to drive, and not a mandate where everyone must drive and can only do so this way. Each Avenger was given a choice: sign the Accords or retire from being an Avenger and walk away from the team. Rogers refused to sign and also refused to retire. none of them are making millions from it Steve Rogers, Natasha Romanov, Wanda Maximoff, and several of the others don't have regular jobs like Clark Kent, Diana Prince, and Barry Allen do. They're also not independently wealthy like Bruce Wayne is. So they get their income from being Avengers. They basically get free room and board for being Avengers. So they are in fact profiting from being Avengers and using their super-powers as Avengers.
|
|
|
Post by poutinep on May 16, 2019 2:08:46 GMT
Even if he did know, why did only he know? Why did only he know how to get the flag down from the flagpole. Because he's supposedly more observant than the other trainees. That's why he was observant enough to see the Colonel take the fake grenade from the box labeled "Training Grenades" and toss it. Why was only he willing to bet his life that it was fake just to look brave? Because he was the only one observant enough to see the Colonel take the fake grenade from the box labeled "Training Grenades" and thus the only one of the trainees who knew the grenade was fake. 1. Wasn't close enough to read that and he has astigmatism.
2. Didn't have the angle. 3. Erskine and Phillips were in the way.
I know you love this little theory that he's not brave and selfless, he's just an evil genius, but it simply is not canon.
|
|
|
Post by dazz on May 16, 2019 2:30:39 GMT
he wasn't being given a choice of retire or do the job this way, which is what choice you get in driving, follow the laws or you don't get to drive, and not a mandate where everyone must drive and can only do so this way. Each Avenger was given a choice: sign the Accords or retire from being an Avenger and walk away from the team. Rogers refused to sign and also refused to retire. none of them are making millions from it Steve Rogers, Natasha Romanov, Wanda Maximoff, and several of the others don't have regular jobs like Clark Kent, Diana Prince, and Barry Allen do. They're also not independently wealthy like Bruce Wayne is. So they get their income from being Avengers. They basically get free room and board for being Avengers. So they are in fact profiting from being Avengers and using their super-powers as Avengers. No where in it are they given that choice, this is why Cap refuses to sign and Tony begs him to because if they don't sign now their could be worse to come later, but signing the accords actually makes them obligated to go where they are sent regardless of their desire to do so, there is no retirement option, that's you and your retard canon.
SLAVES also got room and board also you fucking imbecile, are you really claiming that's an unfair perk that they got room and board? or that SLAVES profited from being fucking SLAVES!!?? or that the Avengers, the WORLDS heroes who are super beloved were working as Avengers for the money when they weren't merchandising themselves or anything? these are all top level assets who if they decided to be mercs could be pulling in 7 maybe 8 figures a year easy on the open market also, seriously you are a complete fucking doughnut.
|
|
|
Post by dazz on May 16, 2019 2:45:40 GMT
Even if he did know, why did only he know? Why did only he know how to get the flag down from the flagpole. Because he's supposedly more observant than the other trainees. That's why he was observant enough to see the Colonel take the fake grenade from the box labeled "Training Grenades" and toss it. Why was only he willing to bet his life that it was fake just to look brave? Because he was the only one observant enough to see the Colonel take the fake grenade from the box labeled "Training Grenades" and thus the only one of the trainees who knew the grenade was fake. 1: That's not just being observant that's being smart also, that's the point everyone else was a meathead Steve had brains, he realised that the trick wasn't to get up to the flag but get the flag down to him and he then looked for the way how to do so, showing problem solving skills not just hey he notices shit.
2: Not observant, the box was too far away to read, infact OTHER soldiers were much closer to the truck than Steve was, Steve was also far from the peak of physical health at the time so his vision even if it were possible to read the writing at that distance which it was not, his eye sight was too poor to do so, also he was heavily exhausted from the exercises making it harder for him to observe things...Peggy also went to dive on the grenade also, strange that isn't it, the two heroic characters of the film are the 2 characters who willingly move towards the grenade.
Your "theory" and that's being charitable to call it such a thing, is predisposing that Steve knew what he needed to show off to be selected, but he didn't, for all he knew that was a test to gage the troops instincts and reaction times, not their courage as where has courage been a test in their training up until then?
Also haven't you now changed your tune in that Steve doing so was pointless because the blast radius would still kill dozens of soldiers? so which is it was Steve dumb for diving on the grenade because it wouldn't help or is he a fake hero because he knew it was a fake grenade?
Let me guess you have now changed the narrative and it's not longer Steve was dumb because multiple people have schooled you on the fact that yes Steve diving on the grenade would infact save lives and reduces the blast damage, and now you are calling him a fake because what else is your pea brain going to say? you were wrong? I mean we ALL know you are wrong 99.96% of the time especially about the subjects you repeatedly bring up and get humbled by, though you are too dumb to notice that it seems, but whatever lets see what copy & paste response you give to this you frothy bowl of moose spunk.
|
|
|
Post by Lord Death Man on May 16, 2019 5:36:46 GMT
Why did only he know how to get the flag down from the flagpole. Because he's supposedly more observant than the other trainees. That's why he was observant enough to see the Colonel take the fake grenade from the box labeled "Training Grenades" and toss it. Because he was the only one observant enough to see the Colonel take the fake grenade from the box labeled "Training Grenades" and thus the only one of the trainees who knew the grenade was fake. 1: That's not just being observant that's being smart also, that's the point everyone else was a meathead Steve had brains, he realised that the trick wasn't to get up to the flag but get the flag down to him and he then looked for the way how to do so, showing problem solving skills not just hey he notices shit.
2: Not observant, the box was too far away to read, infact OTHER soldiers were much closer to the truck than Steve was, Steve was also far from the peak of physical health at the time so his vision even if it were possible to read the writing at that distance which it was not, his eye sight was too poor to do so, also he was heavily exhausted from the exercises making it harder for him to observe things...Peggy also went to dive on the grenade also, strange that isn't it, the two heroic characters of the film are the 2 characters who willingly move towards the grenade.
Your "theory" and that's being charitable to call it such a thing, is predisposing that Steve knew what he needed to show off to be selected, but he didn't, for all he knew that was a test to gage the troops instincts and reaction times, not their courage as where has courage been a test in their training up until then?
Also haven't you now changed your tune in that Steve doing so was pointless because the blast radius would still kill dozens of soldiers? so which is it was Steve dumb for diving on the grenade because it wouldn't help or is he a fake hero because he knew it was a fake grenade?
Let me guess you have now changed the narrative and it's not longer Steve was dumb because multiple people have schooled you on the fact that yes Steve diving on the grenade would infact save lives and reduces the blast damage, and now you are calling him a fake because what else is your pea brain going to say? you were wrong? I mean we ALL know you are wrong 99.96% of the time especially about the subjects you repeatedly bring up and get humbled by, though you are too dumb to notice that it seems, but whatever lets see what copy & paste response you give to this you frothy bowl of moose spunk.
DC-Fan is truly blessed to have a board full of people willing to critique and provide feedback on his fan fiction.
|
|
|
Post by damngumby on May 16, 2019 16:57:33 GMT
DC-Fan is truly blessed to have a board full of people willing to critique and provide feedback on his fan fiction. Rather lazy and contrived fan fiction. Imagine trying to portray Captain America as a tyrant and forgetting to account for the fact that he returned all the infinity stones. A tyrant would have kept them all and used them individually to impose his will upon others. I dont think we're going to be able to give DC-Fan any sort of passing grade for this awful fan fiction of his.
|
|
|
Post by DC-Fan on May 16, 2019 18:50:20 GMT
DC-Fan is truly blessed to have a board full of people willing to critique and provide feedback on his fan fiction. Rather lazy and contrived fan fiction. Imagine trying to portray Captain America as a tyrant and forgetting to account for the fact that he returned all the infinity stones. A tyrant would have kept them all and used them individually to impose his will upon others. And how do you know he actually returned all the stones when Endgame didn't actually show him returning any of the stones?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on May 16, 2019 18:58:07 GMT
Rather lazy and contrived fan fiction. Imagine trying to portray Captain America as a tyrant and forgetting to account for the fact that he returned all the infinity stones. A tyrant would have kept them all and used them individually to impose his will upon others. And how do you know he actually returned all the stones when Endgame didn't actually show him returning any of the stones? He returned without them is one clue.
|
|
|
Post by DC-Fan on May 16, 2019 19:00:27 GMT
And how do you know he actually returned all the stones when Endgame didn't actually show him returning any of the stones? He returned without them is one clue. And how do you know he didn't travel somewhere else and hid the stones in a secure location before returning?
|
|
|
Post by PreachCaleb on May 16, 2019 19:07:42 GMT
He returned without them is one clue. And how do you know he didn't travel somewhere else and hid the stones in a secure location before returning? Same way we know Superman didn't save anyone during the battle of Metropolis. Context clues.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on May 16, 2019 19:07:56 GMT
He returned without them is one clue. And how do you know he didn't travel somewhere else and hid the stones in a secure location before returning? Are you saying for a fact that he did?
|
|
|
Post by justanaveragejoe on May 16, 2019 19:11:22 GMT
Rather lazy and contrived fan fiction. Imagine trying to portray Captain America as a tyrant and forgetting to account for the fact that he returned all the infinity stones. A tyrant would have kept them all and used them individually to impose his will upon others. And how do you know he actually returned all the stones when Endgame didn't actually show him returning any of the stones? And how do you know for a fact that he didn't return the stones to their original timeline?
|
|
|
Post by justanaveragejoe on May 16, 2019 19:13:43 GMT
And how do you know he didn't travel somewhere else and hid the stones in a secure location before returning? Same way we know Superman didn't save anyone during the battle of Metropolis. Context clues. And the same way we know that Batman would've killed Superman if his mom's name was something other than Martha.
|
|
|
Post by dazz on May 16, 2019 19:41:55 GMT
He returned without them is one clue. And how do you know he didn't travel somewhere else and hid the stones in a secure location before returning? Because he exists in the main timeline as an old man meaning the past he went back to where he lived out his life with Peggy is that timeline, in which all the stones were accounted for and then destroyed by Thanos, meaning he didn't keep any of them.
Even if you discount that, the actual logic instead of your hair brained theories suggest he did return the stones as universes without them go fucking crazy, and Cap has never despite your idioitc claims to the contrary been shown to disregard human life let alone to that degree of disrupting possibly destroying the realities of multiple universes/timelines.
And aren't you the idiot who claims we don't need to see or be told Wonder Woman has a magic boat to infer that she infact did have a magic boat fast enough to outpace even the fastest boats in the world today, yet with the MCU it needs to be clear decisive proof of what happens, even though even at this you then lie and make up bullshit like Cap saying the UN was infested by HYDRA even though in CW Cap immediately refutes that as being what he thinks, you sir are a buffoon and an imbecile.
|
|
|
Post by DC-Fan on May 16, 2019 20:15:33 GMT
And how do you know he didn't travel somewhere else and hid the stones in a secure location before returning? Are you saying for a fact that he did? I'm saying there's no evidence that he actually returned all the stones since that was never actually shown. Civil War confirmed that Steve Rogers wants to be a tyrant and Endgame confirmed that Steve Rogers doesn't give a shit about fighting bullies or saving lives so it's probable and even very likely that he kept 1 or more of the stones, especially since it was never shown that he returned even 1 of the stones.
|
|
|
Post by DC-Fan on May 16, 2019 20:16:05 GMT
And how do you know he actually returned all the stones when Endgame didn't actually show him returning any of the stones? And how do you know for a fact that he didn't return the stones to their original timeline? Because there's no evidence that he actually returned all the stones since that was never actually shown. Civil War confirmed that Steve Rogers wants to be a tyrant and Endgame confirmed that Steve Rogers doesn't give a shit about fighting bullies or saving lives so it's probable and even very likely that he kept 1 or more of the stones, especially since it was never shown that he returned even 1 of the stones.
|
|