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Post by clusium on Mar 21, 2023 19:20:42 GMT
Yes, & it is precisely because it is far more complex than that, that people choose one religion or another. Admittedly, in Asia (& possibly a few other places in the world), there actually is no such thing as loyalty to one particular religion. However, it should be noted that most religions in Asia are polytheistic, hence the idea of being loyal to Only One God, for the most part, does not exist. Some of the younger religions that have been formed in the last few hundred years, such as the Baha'i faith and/or Cao Dai, try to amalgamate the different world religions by including the religious figures from each of the different existing ones into their pantheon. The problem is, the different theologies of the various religions in the world. They can be anything from monotheistic; polytheistic; pantheistic,; etc. yeah sorry not clear enough prisca theologia is a bit more complex than that. The problem is people, much like you who pick a religion, then tell everyone it is the exclusive truth and the only real religion. It's not only supremely arrogant, it shows up a fundamental misunderstanding of world religion and it ignores the fact that the primary reason you believe in your particular religion is that you are culturally predisposed to. The distinction between monotheism and polytheism is wayy less than you presume. Monotheists have simply decided (rightfully in my opinion actually, although that is beside the point) that the creator god is the actual god and all the other gods are angels or saints. Actually, I never tell people what to believe. I have friends from a lot of different religions. Nevertheless, each religion is just that: It's own distinct religion, with its own theologies, etc.
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Post by gadreel on Mar 21, 2023 19:37:57 GMT
It makes sense if you see the life of jesus as an allegorical template for spiritual growth, although the death part should in a lot of ways be metaphorical, his actual death (if he really lived through all this) was political. If it's allegorical, are we then no longer talking about physical death or life after death? Is believing in Christ's sacrifice still crucial? Honestly I don't know, what I do know is that I follow the religious beliefs I have because on this world in this manifestation they make me a better person (hopefully ) I don't much care to speculate on an afterlife, although of course I would like to live forever. Is Christs sacrifice still crucial?? Yes, although not specifically as a sacrifice I guess, that never really made sense to me anyway. Having said that some christian mysticism talks of the sacrifice of giving yourself over to the path, so I guess in that light??
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Post by paulslaugh on Mar 21, 2023 20:00:28 GMT
Look at how people get all irrational and emotional over Trump with counter narratives flying. The followers who knew Jesus was a human back when his mother and brothers came to take home, were eventually drown out. The people who could not accept his death started the “we have see Jesus alive” movement. Mark ends with an empty tomb, not a live Jesus where the followers have trouble recognizing him at first. Human brains worked no differently back then as today. Wishful thinking combined with magical thinking is a powerful thing. Except that the Apostles, as well as quite a few of the witnesses Of the Resurrected Saviour, were later severely persecuted for bearing witness to the afore-mention Resurrection. Many were even killed (Martyred)for their testimony. Therefore, there was a little more than wishful thinking combined with magical thinking, at play here. But they always had trouble recognizing him at first.
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Post by paulslaugh on Mar 21, 2023 20:16:39 GMT
If it's allegorical, are we then no longer talking about physical death or life after death? Is believing in Christ's sacrifice still crucial? Honestly I don't know, what I do know is that I follow the religious beliefs I have because on this world in this manifestation they make me a better person (hopefully ) I don't much care to speculate on an afterlife, although of course I would like to live forever. Is Christs sacrifice still crucial?? Yes, although not specifically as a sacrifice I guess, that never really made sense to me anyway. Having said that some christian mysticism talks of the sacrifice of giving yourself over to the path, so I guess in that light?? There is a thing called cheap grace. This happened with the rise of the revivalists movements where a great deal of emphasis is placed upon the “altar call” at the end of the service after a sermon focused on being saved from eternal damnation via a declared belief that Jesus Christ is one’s savior. This is a once saved, always saved, so long as one maintains a steadfast faith in God and Jesus. This maintenance of belief becomes paramount over reformation of character and acting as Christ in the world.
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Post by gadreel on Mar 21, 2023 20:27:05 GMT
yeah sorry not clear enough prisca theologia is a bit more complex than that. The problem is people, much like you who pick a religion, then tell everyone it is the exclusive truth and the only real religion. It's not only supremely arrogant, it shows up a fundamental misunderstanding of world religion and it ignores the fact that the primary reason you believe in your particular religion is that you are culturally predisposed to. The distinction between monotheism and polytheism is wayy less than you presume. Monotheists have simply decided (rightfully in my opinion actually, although that is beside the point) that the creator god is the actual god and all the other gods are angels or saints. Actually, I never tell people what to believe. I have friends from a lot of different religions. Nevertheless, each religion is just that: It's own distinct religion, with its own theologies, etc. You have said the Catholic faith is the true one.
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Post by clusium on Mar 21, 2023 22:01:34 GMT
Actually, I never tell people what to believe. I have friends from a lot of different religions. Nevertheless, each religion is just that: It's own distinct religion, with its own theologies, etc. You have said the Catholic faith is the true one. Yes, it's what I believe, just as others believe their own religions or religious denominations believe. Then you have atheists who believe that all religions are wrong, & there is no God or gods, no afterlife, no nothing.
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Post by clusium on Mar 21, 2023 22:04:31 GMT
Except that the Apostles, as well as quite a few of the witnesses Of the Resurrected Saviour, were later severely persecuted for bearing witness to the afore-mention Resurrection. Many were even killed (Martyred)for their testimony. Therefore, there was a little more than wishful thinking combined with magical thinking, at play here. But they always had trouble recognizing him at first. Yes, Our Lord Jesus Looked somewhat different after His Resurrection. He also Looked somewhat different when He became Transfigured on the mountain, & on another occasion, when He went off to Pray on His Own, & then Returned to the Apostles, while they were all in their boat, fishing.
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Post by gadreel on Mar 21, 2023 22:18:34 GMT
You have said the Catholic faith is the true one. Yes, it's what I believe, just as others believe their own religions or religious denominations believe. Then you have atheists who believe that all religions are wrong, & there is no God or gods, no afterlife, no nothing. when you tell something one thing is true to the exclusion of all others, you are telling them what to believe.
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Post by clusium on Mar 21, 2023 22:25:12 GMT
Yes, it's what I believe, just as others believe their own religions or religious denominations believe. Then you have atheists who believe that all religions are wrong, & there is no God or gods, no afterlife, no nothing. when you tell something one thing is true to the exclusion of all others, you are telling them what to believe. This is a religion message forum. All religions are free to post here. Anyhow, I do not believe that people necessarily go to Heaven or Hell based upon their religious beliefs.
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Post by Sarge on Mar 21, 2023 22:44:01 GMT
Look at how people get all irrational and emotional over Trump with counter narratives flying. The followers who knew Jesus was a human back when his mother and brothers came to take home, were eventually drown out. The people who could not accept his death started the “we have see Jesus alive” movement. Mark ends with an empty tomb, not a live Jesus where the followers have trouble recognizing him at first. Human brains worked no differently back then as today. Wishful thinking combined with magical thinking is a powerful thing. Except that the Apostles, as well as quite a few of the witnesses Of the Resurrected Saviour, were later severely persecuted Allegedly.
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Post by clusium on Mar 21, 2023 22:47:08 GMT
Except that the Apostles, as well as quite a few of the witnesses Of the Resurrected Saviour, were later severely persecuted Allegedly. Were.
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Post by gadreel on Mar 21, 2023 23:00:51 GMT
when you tell something one thing is true to the exclusion of all others, you are telling them what to believe. This is a religion message forum. All religions are free to post here. Anyhow, I do not believe that people necessarily go to Heaven or Hell based upon their religious beliefs. totally missing the point, you say that Catholicism is the true religion, this is telling people that if they do not believe in Catholicism they are wrong. It is telling people what their beliefs should be.
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Post by clusium on Mar 21, 2023 23:02:04 GMT
This is a religion message forum. All religions are free to post here. Anyhow, I do not believe that people necessarily go to Heaven or Hell based upon their religious beliefs. totally missing the point, you say that Catholicism is the true religion, this is telling people that if they do not believe in Catholicism they are wrong. It is telling people what their beliefs should be. It's what I believe to be the Truth.
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Post by gadreel on Mar 21, 2023 23:13:29 GMT
Honestly I don't know, what I do know is that I follow the religious beliefs I have because on this world in this manifestation they make me a better person (hopefully ) I don't much care to speculate on an afterlife, although of course I would like to live forever. Is Christs sacrifice still crucial?? Yes, although not specifically as a sacrifice I guess, that never really made sense to me anyway. Having said that some christian mysticism talks of the sacrifice of giving yourself over to the path, so I guess in that light?? There is a thing called cheap grace. This happened with the rise of the revivalists movements where a great deal of emphasis is placed upon the “altar call” at the end of the service after a sermon focused on being saved from eternal damnation via a declared belief that Jesus Christ is one’s savior. This is a once saved, always saved, so long as one maintains a steadfast faith in God and Jesus. This maintenance of belief becomes paramount over reformation of character and acting as Christ in the world. You just described the worst sort of Christian, I mean I know it happens peoples love of their own belief becomes their personality, not a method of growth, I think Jesus would be sad his teachings devolved to that.
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Post by gadreel on Mar 21, 2023 23:17:26 GMT
totally missing the point, you say that Catholicism is the true religion, this is telling people that if they do not believe in Catholicism they are wrong. It is telling people what their beliefs should be. It's what I believe to be the Truth. of course it is, you are still missing the point, you proclaiming a truth is telling people anything else they believe is wrong, ergo you are telling them what to believe
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Post by clusium on Mar 21, 2023 23:23:08 GMT
It's what I believe to be the Truth. of course it is, you are still missing the point, you proclaiming a truth is telling people anything else they believe is wrong, ergo you are telling them what to believe Everybody here is free to say what they believe. There are atheists on this forum who have publicly stated their staunch atheism. Are they telling people what to believe?
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Post by gadreel on Mar 21, 2023 23:46:57 GMT
of course it is, you are still missing the point, you proclaiming a truth is telling people anything else they believe is wrong, ergo you are telling them what to believe Everybody here is free to say what they believe. There are atheists on this forum who have publicly stated their staunch atheism. Are they telling people what to believe? If they say that only atheism is true, then yes they are. They are implying (actually outright stating) that any other belief system is wrong. I find it really strange how hard a time you have understanding the effect what you say has on people.
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Post by paulslaugh on Mar 22, 2023 2:13:55 GMT
of course it is, you are still missing the point, you proclaiming a truth is telling people anything else they believe is wrong, ergo you are telling them what to believe Everybody here is free to say what they believe. There are atheists on this forum who have publicly stated their staunch atheism. Are they telling people what to believe? No.
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Post by clusium on Mar 22, 2023 3:14:07 GMT
Everybody here is free to say what they believe. There are atheists on this forum who have publicly stated their staunch atheism. Are they telling people what to believe? If they say that only atheism is true, then yes they are. They are implying (actually outright stating) that any other belief system is wrong. I find it really strange how hard a time you have understanding the effect what you say has on people. I've been posting on the RFS message forum for several years now. Yes, atheists pretty much have that attitude here. Eg: Remember Goz? Despite claiming to be an agnostic atheist, the anti-theist views she expressed on on these forums indicate that she was a very zealous atheist, & had absolutely no doubt in her disbelief in God, whatsoever. Eg: I used to share videos or links about people entering into the priesthood and/or nunnery, etc., & she used to expressed complete dismay at the decision of these young people to choose to dedicate their lives to God and His Church. I have said nothing to have any effect on people here. Nobody is being denied their right to express their faith in their own religions here.
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Post by clusium on Mar 22, 2023 3:14:39 GMT
Everybody here is free to say what they believe. There are atheists on this forum who have publicly stated their staunch atheism. Are they telling people what to believe? No. Nor am I telling people what to believe either.
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