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Post by ThatGuy on Oct 18, 2017 21:04:19 GMT
Was he right to let him go? He attacked the White House and held them all hostage. He could have crushed all those sentinels or had them destroy each other. Nope he attacked the people there and begged Xavier to let him go because he was powerless against him. DOFP he was not right to let him go. At all. If he'd killed him then and there then X-Men: Apocalypse would've gone a lot easier. Xavier believes in reform thats why he tried to stop Erik killing Shaw in First Class which failed. In DOFP from what Xavier learns with his argument on the plane, that Magneto had his close ally mutants butchered by Trask & his forces and he was wrongly imprisoned in isolation for 10 years! So yeah even though he takes the cabinet hostage and threatens to kill them live on TV, what good is handing Magneto back to human cops gonna do. Hes already been inhumanely treated and having his mutant friends exterminated. Humans will execute him and Xavier is against capital punishment so he cant allow it to happen. He believes Erik learns his lesson as Mistique prevents him from carrying out his plan, which is powweful enough to reform Magneto as it was Mistique who left Charles for him in FC in the first place. And Xavier turns out to be right. Magneto exhiles himself to a rural Polish town and lives in peace. Was he wrongly imprisoned? This is the same Magneto that freed Emma (no doubt killing people to get to her). Then you have all the other stuff he had to have done before he was caught. Yeah he lives in peace until he doesn't.
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Post by charzhino on Oct 18, 2017 21:08:50 GMT
Was he wrongly imprisoned? This is the same Magneto that freed Emma (no doubt killing people to get to her). Then you have all the other stuff he had to have done before he was caught. Yeah he lives in peace until he doesn't. Killed who? Russian henchmen for the Soviet army and Nazis ? Hardly crime of the century.
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Post by ThatGuy on Oct 18, 2017 22:22:57 GMT
Was he wrongly imprisoned? This is the same Magneto that freed Emma (no doubt killing people to get to her). Then you have all the other stuff he had to have done before he was caught. Yeah he lives in peace until he doesn't. Killed who? Russian henchmen for the Soviet army and Nazis ? Hardly crime of the century. Well, she was talking to them in English so I'm guessing they were American... I mean, she was caught by American agents.
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Post by formersamhmd on Oct 18, 2017 23:25:18 GMT
Xavier believes in reform thats why he tried to stop Erik killing Shaw in First Class which failed. In DOFP from what Xavier learns with his argument on the plane, that Magneto had his close ally mutants butchered by Trask & his forces and he was wrongly imprisoned in isolation for 10 years! They were terrorists who deserved their fate, Xavier owes them nothing. And even if he was wrongfully imprisoned in that ONE case it doesn't mean Erik didn't deserve to be locked up. "Believing in reform" has its limits. Xavier doesn't care about anyone Erik kills, which is why he never punished him. Give Erik the fate he's earned. You don't see Thor just letting Loki go off Scott-Free everytime. But he's fine with all the people Erik killed. Obviously they mean nothing to him.
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Post by charzhino on Oct 19, 2017 11:33:21 GMT
They were terrorists who deserved their fate, Xavier owes them nothing. And even if he was wrongfully imprisoned in that ONE case it doesn't mean Erik didn't deserve to be locked up. "Believing in reform" has its limits. Xavier doesn't care about anyone Erik kills, which is why he never punished him. They were not terrorists after Erik recruits them in First Class. They were fighting for their freedom and rights in a more aggressive method, like the Black Panthers you keep mentioning. And Magneto was unjustly being kept in solitary confinement not only for the framed assassination of JFK but also as a lab rat who had just tried to protect himself. Hes nevee the aggressor in FC or DOFP, he reacts to oppression by Shaw/Trask/miltary and gets imprisoned simply because hes too powerful. He explains it clearly on the plane he wants to protect mutants, hes not like Shaw or Apocalypse simply murdering innocent civilians and forecfully taking over. Loki killed innocent civilians because he has a God complex and thinks humans deserve to be ruled and worship him on a throne. Thats the same mantra of Shaw and Apocalypse. NOT Magnetos. In the First Class and DOFP he wants to do something dramatic like blow up the Navy fleet, or kill the cabinet on live TV (both groups responsible for targetting him in the first place) to "announce" mutants to the world and demand respect. Neither event ends up happening and Xavier feels he can still bring him back to the good path which is why he lets him go and rightly so. However by the time of the original trilogy, Xavier says himself he is tracking Magneto to stop him and is pleased to see him in the plastic prison for a life sentence. Magneto has gone from being reactionary and protective in his younger self to now taking the initiative to try and forcibly turn everyone Mutant in X1 and then trying to kill every human in X2 and X3. And Thor captures Loki for stealing the tesseract and trechary against Asguard. I doubt its because of killing tiny humans.
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Post by formersamhmd on Oct 19, 2017 11:48:13 GMT
They were terrorists who deserved their fate, Xavier owes them nothing. And even if he was wrongfully imprisoned in that ONE case it doesn't mean Erik didn't deserve to be locked up. "Believing in reform" has its limits. Xavier doesn't care about anyone Erik kills, which is why he never punished him. They were not terrorists after Erik recruits them in First Class. They were fighting for their freedom and rights in a more aggressive method, like the Black Panthers you keep mentioning. That IS terrorism. The Black Panthers were contained before it got that bad. He said he was FINE with everything Shaw stood for in FC, he just killed him to get payback for his mom. Which means he's fine killing humans and conquering Humanity/wiping them out. Like I said, Magneto agreed with Shaw and killed him out of revenge. Not out of thinking he was wrong. Which makes this Xavier an idiot. Of course, he's an idiot half the time in the comics too. Too bad they couldn't maintain that in the current Xavier.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2017 15:11:56 GMT
If I had a friend who pulled even half the crap Magneto has, believe me, I'd have cut him out of my life a long time ago.
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Post by Agent of Chaos on Oct 19, 2017 16:39:56 GMT
I think so. Xavier never gave up on Eric. And Eric was definately upset when Charles "died" in X3. He did in the original timeline. He tried to kill him in X1 and left him in prison.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2017 16:43:35 GMT
I think so. Xavier never gave up on Eric. And Eric was definately upset when Charles "died" in X3. He did in the original timeline. He tried to kill him in X1 and left him in prison. When did he try to kill him? And he didn't "leave him" in prison. Magneto was arrested. He's not going to break him out and become a criminal. Thst would be ridiculous.
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Post by Agent of Chaos on Oct 19, 2017 17:28:42 GMT
He did in the original timeline. He tried to kill him in X1 and left him in prison. When did he try to kill him? And he didn't "leave him" in prison. Magneto was arrested. He's not going to break him out and become a criminal. Thst would be ridiculous. He threaten to kill him when he turned those guns on the cops. The only reason he didn't was because Magneto would have killed those guys before that could happen. And in DOFP its established that Xavier hated the guy after the events of First Class.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2017 17:31:10 GMT
When did he try to kill him? And he didn't "leave him" in prison. Magneto was arrested. He's not going to break him out and become a criminal. Thst would be ridiculous. He threaten to kill him when he turned those guns on the cops. The only reason he didn't was because Magneto would have killed those guys before that could happen. And in DOFP its established that Xavier hated the guy after the events of First Class. I don't think he was ever going to kill him in that scene. But fair enough. Friend is too strong a word for their relationship, I suppose.
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Post by summers8 on Oct 19, 2017 17:37:15 GMT
You might want to get your facts straight. Joker and Harley are not a correct comparison because Eric and Charles are each other equals and do respect and care for each other despite all their fights and disagreements. neither are willing to bend their personal beliefs for the other. this is one of the key difference between them and joker and harley. If I want to make a correct comparison, I will say Eric and Charles are more like Batman and Catwoman. Harley Quinn is a lost her mind sick fan girl obsessed with a pure psycho evil villain that has no respect for her neither does he care for her, which was one of the problems with the SS movie.Magneto is nothing like the Joker. Xavier is nothing like Quinn.what a bizarre and senseless comparison. is this MCU fans way of trolling again? spare us. Magneto does not manipulate anyone at least not in the long term . see mystique in DOFP. and please if you do give examples. you might want to state what is in the movies because the last person I replied too said things that never happened in the movies. Proving my point there you know. The reason they don't look the same is surface. The Joker and Harley are a straight forward couple. Watch DoFP again for a Joker style manipulation of Xavier in the jet scene when they are going to Paris. Xavier rightfully upset with Erik is beaten down verbally by Erik while he shows force with his powers. Xavier then cows to him later. They did the same thing in First Class while, again, playing chest. Erik shows Xavier his face and Xavier backs down like the good Harley he is. It's something they do to make Magneto a credible villain throughout the movie until they need Xavier to be right at the end of the movie and Erik goes away with his tail between his legs. As a matter of fact, they did it in all 3 of the "prequels". Magneto manipulated an entire church full of mutants in X3. Dark Phoenix in X3. Pyro in X2. He was even more Joker/Harley to Mystique in X3. The Hellfire Club in First Class. Was still working on Mystique in DoFP. He did something to Xavier in Apocalypse for Xavier to let him go. Erik should have been a drooling mess in a corner. -Magneto tried to manipulate Dark Phoenix and she told him if he ever tires it again she will kill him. If I do remember correctly she threatened him with the cure and he got scared. -Magneto did not manipulate an entire church of mutants. The mutants were always split between magneto's beliefs and Charles beliefs. -Magneto did not manipulate Pyro either as we see in X2 before Pyro joined Magneto. Pyro was already very aggressive and using violence. Pyro in X2 only found a place he belonged when Magneto showed up. -The jet scene in DOFP, Charles was hurt but after that scene I saw Charles and Eric go their serperate ways and once again. Charles using the peaceful approach to try and stop everything. magento using the violent approach. HarLey lives only for Joker’s vison. She has no mind of her own. joker jumps. she jumps. Did Charles back down as you said? I think Charles stomped off in anger and the next scene we see both characters once again debating their philosophies. Harley has no mind to debate anything with joker. Did I see Charles running back to Eric in DOFP? Reading Batman comics an watching the movies, Batman usually lets Catwoman go off because he has faith in her. That was what Charles did in DOFP. That was the movie. Its a nice try , but what you said is complete nonsense, its a laughable comparison at best and as you see, its an opinion of yours that no one is backing. ....usually the case when MCU fans take on xmen movies,. For some weird reason, they don’t like to say what happened in the movies Sorry, it is not a joker style manipulation. I am not the biggest fan of dcfan, but he is right...why do you mcu fans always make shit up?
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Post by summers8 on Oct 19, 2017 17:46:51 GMT
They were terrorists who deserved their fate, Xavier owes them nothing. And even if he was wrongfully imprisoned in that ONE case it doesn't mean Erik didn't deserve to be locked up. "Believing in reform" has its limits. Xavier doesn't care about anyone Erik kills, which is why he never punished him. They were not terrorists after Erik recruits them in First Class. They were fighting for their freedom and rights in a more aggressive method, like the Black Panthers you keep mentioning. And Magneto was unjustly being kept in solitary confinement not only for the framed assassination of JFK but also as a lab rat who had just tried to protect himself. Hes nevee the aggressor in FC or DOFP, he reacts to oppression by Shaw/Trask/miltary and gets imprisoned simply because hes too powerful. He explains it clearly on the plane he wants to protect mutants, hes not like Shaw or Apocalypse simply murdering innocent civilians and forecfully taking over. Loki killed innocent civilians because he has a God complex and thinks humans deserve to be ruled and worship him on a throne. Thats the same mantra of Shaw and Apocalypse. NOT Magnetos. In the First Class and DOFP he wants to do something dramatic like blow up the Navy fleet, or kill the cabinet on live TV (both groups responsible for targetting him in the first place) to "announce" mutants to the world and demand respect. Neither event ends up happening and Xavier feels he can still bring him back to the good path which is why he lets him go and rightly so. However by the time of the original trilogy, Xavier says himself he is tracking Magneto to stop him and is pleased to see him in the plastic prison for a life sentence. Magneto has gone from being reactionary and protective in his younger self to now taking the initiative to try and forcibly turn everyone Mutant in X1 and then trying to kill every human in X2 and X3. And Thor captures Loki for stealing the tesseract and trechary against Asguard. I doubt its because of killing tiny humans. I think I remember formersamhmd from the old imdb boards. good thing I have him on ignore. Would not waste my time sparing on nonsense. If more comes back to me, I think thatguy was one of those folks that used to say this movie was a rip off of terminator 2. lol ....because you know... Chris Clarmont is such an intelligent genius that he built a time machine in 1981 went to the year 1992, watch terminator 2 and than came back to the year 1981 to write DOFP comics. Gosh, mad and retarded behaviour like this is the reason the old IMDB board got shut down. you would think some of this people would have grown up by now and stoped all the shit they used to put on the old forums. At least 2.0 seemed more enclosed so even their bullshit will be marginalised.this kind of behaviour is the reason I am happy X-Men series/fans don't have to share house with the MCU.
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Post by claudius on Oct 19, 2017 18:11:57 GMT
You left out co-plotter John Byrne and his subconscious DOCTOR WHO inspiration. Still, you are accurate about that BS back in the day. As if Roy Thomas & Neal Adams made a time machine in 1969, traveled to 1991 to see TERMINATOR 2: JUDGMENT DAY and then coming back to their native time inspired to give Sentinels the 'adapt-to-Mutant-power' ability for X-MEN#58.
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Post by charzhino on Oct 19, 2017 18:20:09 GMT
I think I remember formersamhmd from the old imdb boards. good thing I have him on ignore. Would not waste my time sparing on nonsense. If more comes back to me, I think thatguy was one of those folks that used to say this movie was a rip off of terminator 2. lol ....because you know... Chris Clarmont is such an intelligent genius that he built a time machine in 1981 went to the year 1992, watch terminator 2 and than came back to the year 1981 to write DOFP comics. Gosh, mad and retarded behaviour like this is the reason the old IMDB board got shut down. you would think some of this people would have grown up by now and stoped all the shit they used to put on the old forums. At least 2.0 seemed more enclosed so even their bullshit will be marginalised.this kind of behaviour is the reason I am happy X-Men series/fans don't have to share house with the MCU. Yeah, samhd was a pest on the old imdb and even wormhole had him blocked. Thatguy was also on imdb and plauged the Xmen boards with constant negativity, I remember there was a petition to get him banned.
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Post by summers8 on Oct 19, 2017 18:23:08 GMT
You left out co-plotter John Byrne and his subconscious DOCTOR WHO inspiration. Still, you are accurate about that BS back in the day. As if Roy Thomas & Neal Adams made a time machine in 1969, traveled to 1991 to see TERMINATOR 2: JUDGMENT DAY and then coming back to their native time inspired to give Sentinels the 'adapt-to-Mutant-power' ability for X-MEN#58. I know right, sadly good level headed people like us got caught in the cross fire when IMDB shut itself down because of this type of BS.
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Post by summers8 on Oct 19, 2017 18:26:04 GMT
I think I remember formersamhmd from the old imdb boards. good thing I have him on ignore. Would not waste my time sparing on nonsense. If more comes back to me, I think thatguy was one of those folks that used to say this movie was a rip off of terminator 2. lol ....because you know... Chris Clarmont is such an intelligent genius that he built a time machine in 1981 went to the year 1992, watch terminator 2 and than came back to the year 1981 to write DOFP comics. Gosh, mad and retarded behaviour like this is the reason the old IMDB board got shut down. you would think some of this people would have grown up by now and stoped all the shit they used to put on the old forums. At least 2.0 seemed more enclosed so even their bullshit will be marginalised.this kind of behaviour is the reason I am happy X-Men series/fans don't have to share house with the MCU. Yeah, samhd was a pest on the old imdb and even wormhole had him blocked. Thatguy was also on imdb and plauged the Xmen boards with constant negativity, I remember there was a petition to get him banned. If people want to use constant negativity they may not want to use the tactics of obvious bs that can easily be dismantled in a second. the constant negativity was their end means of trying to get Xmen in the MCU. good luck with that after Logan, Deadpool and DOFP and other future X-Men projects that Fox wants to explore
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Post by formersamhmd on Oct 19, 2017 20:33:54 GMT
They were not terrorists after Erik recruits them in First Class. They were fighting for their freedom and rights in a more aggressive method, like the Black Panthers you keep mentioning. And Magneto was unjustly being kept in solitary confinement not only for the framed assassination of JFK but also as a lab rat who had just tried to protect himself. Hes nevee the aggressor in FC or DOFP, he reacts to oppression by Shaw/Trask/miltary and gets imprisoned simply because hes too powerful. He explains it clearly on the plane he wants to protect mutants, hes not like Shaw or Apocalypse simply murdering innocent civilians and forecfully taking over. Loki killed innocent civilians because he has a God complex and thinks humans deserve to be ruled and worship him on a throne. Thats the same mantra of Shaw and Apocalypse. NOT Magnetos. In the First Class and DOFP he wants to do something dramatic like blow up the Navy fleet, or kill the cabinet on live TV (both groups responsible for targetting him in the first place) to "announce" mutants to the world and demand respect. Neither event ends up happening and Xavier feels he can still bring him back to the good path which is why he lets him go and rightly so. However by the time of the original trilogy, Xavier says himself he is tracking Magneto to stop him and is pleased to see him in the plastic prison for a life sentence. Magneto has gone from being reactionary and protective in his younger self to now taking the initiative to try and forcibly turn everyone Mutant in X1 and then trying to kill every human in X2 and X3. And Thor captures Loki for stealing the tesseract and trechary against Asguard. I doubt its because of killing tiny humans. I think I remember formersamhmd from the old imdb boards. good thing I have him on ignore. Would not waste my time sparing on nonsense. If more comes back to me, I think thatguy was one of those folks that used to say this movie was a rip off of terminator 2. lol ....because you know... Chris Clarmont is such an intelligent genius that he built a time machine in 1981 went to the year 1992, watch terminator 2 and than came back to the year 1981 to write DOFP comics. The original DOFP story wasn't that great to begin with, it's more nostalgia that makes X-Fans think it is.
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Post by formersamhmd on Oct 19, 2017 20:35:34 GMT
Yeah, samhd was a pest on the old imdb and even wormhole had him blocked. Thatguy was also on imdb and plauged the Xmen boards with constant negativity, I remember there was a petition to get him banned. If people want to use constant negativity they may not want to use the tactics of obvious bs that can easily be dismantled in a second. the constant negativity was their end means of trying to get Xmen in the MCU. good luck with that after Logan, Deadpool and DOFP and other future X-Men projects that Fox wants to explore Logan was a one-shot thing, because the main lure there was it being Jackman's Swan Song. Deadpool was something no one at Fox had faith in but Ryan Reynolds. DOFP had the artificial booster of the old cast coming back for their silly fairytale ending. The other movies? They won't do well either.
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Post by ThatGuy on Oct 19, 2017 20:48:13 GMT
Proving my point there you know. The reason they don't look the same is surface. The Joker and Harley are a straight forward couple. Watch DoFP again for a Joker style manipulation of Xavier in the jet scene when they are going to Paris. Xavier rightfully upset with Erik is beaten down verbally by Erik while he shows force with his powers. Xavier then cows to him later. They did the same thing in First Class while, again, playing chest. Erik shows Xavier his face and Xavier backs down like the good Harley he is. It's something they do to make Magneto a credible villain throughout the movie until they need Xavier to be right at the end of the movie and Erik goes away with his tail between his legs. As a matter of fact, they did it in all 3 of the "prequels". Magneto manipulated an entire church full of mutants in X3. Dark Phoenix in X3. Pyro in X2. He was even more Joker/Harley to Mystique in X3. The Hellfire Club in First Class. Was still working on Mystique in DoFP. He did something to Xavier in Apocalypse for Xavier to let him go. Erik should have been a drooling mess in a corner. -Magneto tried to manipulate Dark Phoenix and she told him if he ever tires it again she will kill him. If I do remember correctly she threatened him with the cure and he got scared. -Magneto did not manipulate an entire church of mutants. The mutants were always split between magneto's beliefs and Charles beliefs. -Magneto did not manipulate Pyro either as we see in X2 before Pyro joined Magneto. Pyro was already very aggressive and using violence. Pyro in X2 only found a place he belonged when Magneto showed up. -The jet scene in DOFP, Charles was hurt but after that scene I saw Charles and Eric go their serperate ways and once again. Charles using the peaceful approach to try and stop everything. magento using the violent approach. HarLey lives only for Joker’s vison. She has no mind of her own. joker jumps. she jumps. Did Charles back down as you said? I think Charles stomped off in anger and the next scene we see both characters once again debating their philosophies. Harley has no mind to debate anything with joker. Did I see Charles running back to Eric in DOFP? Reading Batman comics an watching the movies, Batman usually lets Catwoman go off because he has faith in her. That was what Charles did in DOFP. That was the movie. Its a nice try , but what you said is complete nonsense, its a laughable comparison at best and as you see, its an opinion of yours that no one is backing. ....usually the case when MCU fans take on xmen movies,. For some weird reason, they don’t like to say what happened in the movies Sorry, it is not a joker style manipulation. I am not the biggest fan of dcfan, but he is right...why do you mcu fans always make shit up? But they all joined him. So, yes, he manipulated them. He got all the mutants to attack Alcatraz for him. He convinced Pyro to join him. Just because he was already aggressive means nothing. He still left Xavier to join Magneto after what he told him about being a god. You can see the manipulation when Magneto looks at Mystique afterwards with a "Got'em!" expression. Also, you forget about the part when Jean 1st joins Magneto after killing Xavier. That whole scene has Magneto manipulating Jean and riling her up until she kills Charles. And what does Erik do? He coddles her out the door like a child. They substituted Shaw for Magneto. In the comics, the Hellfire Club turns her into Dark Phoenix. Yes Charles backs down. He tries to tell Erik how wrong he is, but Erik tells Charles he is wrong. Then Charles just shuts up and takes it. There is no real argument between them because Charles Erik to have his say letting Erik think he is right. He backs down. Yes, Charles runs back to Erik. X1 and X2 has Xavier constantly visit Erik in prison trying to keep their friendship going. Erik even asks him why he keeps coming there. Charles became a drug addict in DoFP because his "sister" ran off with Erik and he blamed him for 11 years. Erik can't be redeemed and he knows it, but he acts like the girl that thinks she can change the bad boy. Catwoman is not that much of a villain. She's a thief. She doesn't go out to mass kill a bunch of people. So him having faith in her is not that big a thing. That is no where the same as Erik and Charles. But Charles thinking a guy that would kill every person (mutant and human) on the planet, is still okay, is more Joker and Harley. And I'm talking about movie Xavier. Comic book Xavier was in the military. He's not the type of guy that would sit back and preach about not being violent while having a private militia. Or you are omitting things in your mind. Just like the Joker, movie Magneto is a mental abuser. He breaks you down and builds you up. It's a form of Stockholm. I bet the movie makers are even seeing that they are doing it. They just see it as keeping Magneto around as the series villain. While at the same time making it so that Erik can be with the X-men without them killing him.
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