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Post by ThatGuy on Oct 19, 2017 20:49:26 GMT
I think I remember formersamhmd from the old imdb boards. good thing I have him on ignore. Would not waste my time sparing on nonsense. If more comes back to me, I think thatguy was one of those folks that used to say this movie was a rip off of terminator 2. lol ....because you know... Chris Clarmont is such an intelligent genius that he built a time machine in 1981 went to the year 1992, watch terminator 2 and than came back to the year 1981 to write DOFP comics. Gosh, mad and retarded behaviour like this is the reason the old IMDB board got shut down. you would think some of this people would have grown up by now and stoped all the shit they used to put on the old forums. At least 2.0 seemed more enclosed so even their bullshit will be marginalised.this kind of behaviour is the reason I am happy X-Men series/fans don't have to share house with the MCU. Yeah, samhd was a pest on the old imdb and even wormhole had him blocked. Thatguy was also on imdb and plauged the Xmen boards with constant negativity, I remember there was a petition to get him banned. No doubt started by LukeLoves...
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Post by charzhino on Oct 19, 2017 20:53:34 GMT
Yeah, samhd was a pest on the old imdb and even wormhole had him blocked. Thatguy was also on imdb and plauged the Xmen boards with constant negativity, I remember there was a petition to get him banned. No doubt started by LukeLoves... It was either him, question7 or duranwhit but I cant remember.
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Post by ThatGuy on Oct 19, 2017 20:54:37 GMT
Yeah, samhd was a pest on the old imdb and even wormhole had him blocked. Thatguy was also on imdb and plauged the Xmen boards with constant negativity, I remember there was a petition to get him banned. If people want to use constant negativity they may not want to use the tactics of obvious bs that can easily be dismantled in a second. the constant negativity was their end means of trying to get Xmen in the MCU. good luck with that after Logan, Deadpool and DOFP and other future X-Men projects that Fox wants to explore Wasn't a fan of how Singer did the X-men movies from the beginning. So, no, I don't care if the X-men are in the MCU or not. They just need to git gud when it comes to the core X-men movies. I actually like Logan and Deadpool and First Class. The only X-men related movie I'm excited for is Deadpool 2.
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Post by ThatGuy on Oct 19, 2017 21:11:37 GMT
No doubt started by LukeLoves... It was either him, question7 or duranwhit but I cant remember. I had question7 and wormhole9 blocked. LukeLoves and I went at it constantly because he was confused at how someone didn't gush over the X-men movies. He's still confused. He wanted the X-men forums to be a circle jerk for Singer. I think I'm more of a "that's not right" type of guy. Or an anti-them. I remember when I blocked either question or wormhole (I still think they are the same person) someone sent me a message to unblock them because they were whining about it.
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Post by charzhino on Oct 19, 2017 21:21:02 GMT
But they all joined him. So, yes, he manipulated them. He got all the mutants to attack Alcatraz for him. He convinced Pyro to join him. Just because he was already aggressive means nothing. He still left Xavier to join Magneto after what he told him about being a god. You can see the manipulation when Magneto looks at Mystique afterwards with a "Got'em!" expression. Also, you forget about the part when Jean 1st joins Magneto after killing Xavier. That whole scene has Magneto manipulating Jean and riling her up until she kills Charles. And what does Erik do? He coddles her out the door like a child. They substituted Shaw for Magneto. I dont think thats manipulation though in the selfish way your describing it. Magneto isnt some coward trying to brainwash and recruit minions who he will simply use for his benefit alone. His whole agenda is a collective cause to ensure mutant survival/supremacy; he isn't necessarily doing it for personal gains like the Joker is. Him telling Pyro that hes a god amongst insects is his core belief that hes simply unveiling to John, that he shouldn't be content with Xaviers utopian idea of equality with humans. I dont think hes being sinister and trying to get him to join the brotherhood through any clever way. And I dont think theres anything hidden in his expression to Mistique after. Magneto is a natural leader with a cult of personality persona. He will attract followers willingly. Shaw and Apocalypse are the actual manipulators who recruit their followers because they have personal agendas. Shaw manipulates young Erik in the concentration camp quite clearly. Then his older version tries again with Erik in the last scene. "We are the future of the human race. You and me son, the world could be ours" This is blatant manipulation, with the knowledge that Shaw killed his mother yet still trying to trick Erik into following him. And with Apocalypse its even more clear aa he wants to be worshipped as a god. In the Phoenix scene in X3, hes trying to (what he believes is her true self) set "free" herself from the shackles that Xavier has put on her. Its more of him trying to liberate Jean rather than manipulate.
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Post by ThatGuy on Oct 19, 2017 21:40:22 GMT
They were not terrorists after Erik recruits them in First Class. They were fighting for their freedom and rights in a more aggressive method, like the Black Panthers you keep mentioning. And Magneto was unjustly being kept in solitary confinement not only for the framed assassination of JFK but also as a lab rat who had just tried to protect himself. Hes nevee the aggressor in FC or DOFP, he reacts to oppression by Shaw/Trask/miltary and gets imprisoned simply because hes too powerful. He explains it clearly on the plane he wants to protect mutants, hes not like Shaw or Apocalypse simply murdering innocent civilians and forecfully taking over. Loki killed innocent civilians because he has a God complex and thinks humans deserve to be ruled and worship him on a throne. Thats the same mantra of Shaw and Apocalypse. NOT Magnetos. In the First Class and DOFP he wants to do something dramatic like blow up the Navy fleet, or kill the cabinet on live TV (both groups responsible for targetting him in the first place) to "announce" mutants to the world and demand respect. Neither event ends up happening and Xavier feels he can still bring him back to the good path which is why he lets him go and rightly so. However by the time of the original trilogy, Xavier says himself he is tracking Magneto to stop him and is pleased to see him in the plastic prison for a life sentence. Magneto has gone from being reactionary and protective in his younger self to now taking the initiative to try and forcibly turn everyone Mutant in X1 and then trying to kill every human in X2 and X3. And Thor captures Loki for stealing the tesseract and trechary against Asguard. I doubt its because of killing tiny humans. I think I remember formersamhmd from the old imdb boards. good thing I have him on ignore. Would not waste my time sparing on nonsense. If more comes back to me, I think thatguy was one of those folks that used to say this movie was a rip off of terminator 2. lol ....because you know... Chris Clarmont is such an intelligent genius that he built a time machine in 1981 went to the year 1992, watch terminator 2 and than came back to the year 1981 to write DOFP comics. Gosh, mad and retarded behaviour like this is the reason the old IMDB board got shut down. you would think some of this people would have grown up by now and stoped all the shit they used to put on the old forums. At least 2.0 seemed more enclosed so even their bullshit will be marginalised.this kind of behaviour is the reason I am happy X-Men series/fans don't have to share house with the MCU. The DoFP movie is not the same as the comic. I never said the comic was a rip-off of T2. The way the movie was made is a rip-off of T2. They didn't break Magneto out of prison in the comic. A guy with a metal skeleton didn't go back in time. There wasn't a woman that was set out to kill a scientist.* They even "killed" the guy from the future by dunking him in liquid. He went back in time to "save" the future resistance leader before he could put the team together. When he went back in time, he arrived there naked. If they were making a movie close to the comic they would have had them go back to X1 when the Brotherhood killed Sen. Kelly. They would have used Kitty (who is in the movie). The funny thing is that, without Superman Returns, I wouldn't have noticed it. *Yes, she did go out to kill someone (a politician), but like I said, they should have gone back to X1.
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Post by ThatGuy on Oct 19, 2017 21:57:14 GMT
But they all joined him. So, yes, he manipulated them. He got all the mutants to attack Alcatraz for him. He convinced Pyro to join him. Just because he was already aggressive means nothing. He still left Xavier to join Magneto after what he told him about being a god. You can see the manipulation when Magneto looks at Mystique afterwards with a "Got'em!" expression. Also, you forget about the part when Jean 1st joins Magneto after killing Xavier. That whole scene has Magneto manipulating Jean and riling her up until she kills Charles. And what does Erik do? He coddles her out the door like a child. They substituted Shaw for Magneto. I dont think thats manipulation though in the selfish way your describing it. Magneto isnt some coward trying to brainwash and recruit minions who he will simply use for his benefit alone. His whole agenda is a collective cause to ensure mutant survival/supremacy; he isn't necessarily doing it for personal gains like the Joker is. Him telling Pyro that hes a god amongst insects is his core belief that hes simply unveiling to John, that he shouldn't be content with Xaviers utopian idea of equality with humans. I dont think hes being sinister and trying to get him to join the brotherhood through any clever way. And I dont think theres anything hidden in his expression to Mistique after. Magneto is a natural leader with a cult of personality persona. He will attract followers willingly. Shaw and Apocalypse are the actual manipulators who recruit their followers because they have personal agendas. Shaw manipulates young Erik in the concentration camp quite clearly. Then his older version tries again with Erik in the last scene. "We are the future of the human race. You and me son, the world could be ours" This is blatant manipulation, with the knowledge that Shaw killed his mother yet still trying to trick Erik into following him. And with Apocalypse its even more clear aa he wants to be worshipped as a god. In the Phoenix scene in X3, hes trying to (what he believes is her true self) set "free" herself from the shackles that Xavier has put on her. Its more of him trying to liberate Jean rather than manipulate. "You're so full of shit! If you're really so righteous, it'd be you in that thing." -Wolverine (X1) And yes, Erik is a coward. His whole thing (in the movies) is that he fears going through what he went through as a kid again. And there is nothing hidden in his expression to Mystique either. It was out in the open for us to see. He has to rebuild the Brotherhood because it is only he and Mystique. A lost rebellious kid is easy pickings. He was manipulating him with half truths. Telling him what he wanted to hear. That's what makes his manipulations so effective. He'd be employee of the month every month if he was a used car salesman. Magneto is basically the movie Super Size Me. Also, he does attract minions for his benefit. He even says to let the pawns go first about his mutant army in X3. Then when he lost his powers he runs away. "What have I done?" With Jean, he went there specifically to bring her back with him. He needed her to not want to go with Xavier. He didn't go there so she'd free her mind and go where she wanted. She was already there by going to her family home instead of the Xavier Institute. He saw her as a weapon in his fight against humans. He didn't care one lick about Jean. She was a powerful mutant and he wanted her on his side.
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Post by summers8 on Oct 19, 2017 22:03:53 GMT
-Magneto tried to manipulate Dark Phoenix and she told him if he ever tires it again she will kill him. If I do remember correctly she threatened him with the cure and he got scared. -Magneto did not manipulate an entire church of mutants. The mutants were always split between magneto's beliefs and Charles beliefs. -Magneto did not manipulate Pyro either as we see in X2 before Pyro joined Magneto. Pyro was already very aggressive and using violence. Pyro in X2 only found a place he belonged when Magneto showed up. -The jet scene in DOFP, Charles was hurt but after that scene I saw Charles and Eric go their serperate ways and once again. Charles using the peaceful approach to try and stop everything. magento using the violent approach. HarLey lives only for Joker’s vison. She has no mind of her own. joker jumps. she jumps. Did Charles back down as you said? I think Charles stomped off in anger and the next scene we see both characters once again debating their philosophies. Harley has no mind to debate anything with joker. Did I see Charles running back to Eric in DOFP? Reading Batman comics an watching the movies, Batman usually lets Catwoman go off because he has faith in her. That was what Charles did in DOFP. That was the movie. Its a nice try , but what you said is complete nonsense, its a laughable comparison at best and as you see, its an opinion of yours that no one is backing. ....usually the case when MCU fans take on xmen movies,. For some weird reason, they don’t like to say what happened in the movies Sorry, it is not a joker style manipulation. I am not the biggest fan of dcfan, but he is right...why do you mcu fans always make shit up? But they all joined him. So, yes, he manipulated them. He got all the mutants to attack Alcatraz for him. He convinced Pyro to join him. Just because he was already aggressive means nothing. He still left Xavier to join Magneto after what he told him about being a god. You can see the manipulation when Magneto looks at Mystique afterwards with a "Got'em!" expression. Also, you forget about the part when Jean 1st joins Magneto after killing Xavier. That whole scene has Magneto manipulating Jean and riling her up until she kills Charles. And what does Erik do? He coddles her out the door like a child. They substituted Shaw for Magneto. In the comics, the Hellfire Club turns her into Dark Phoenix. Yes Charles backs down. He tries to tell Erik how wrong he is, but Erik tells Charles he is wrong. Then Charles just shuts up and takes it. There is no real argument between them because Charles Erik to have his say letting Erik think he is right. He backs down. Yes, Charles runs back to Erik. X1 and X2 has Xavier constantly visit Erik in prison trying to keep their friendship going. Erik even asks him why he keeps coming there. Charles became a drug addict in DoFP because his "sister" ran off with Erik and he blamed him for 11 years. Erik can't be redeemed and he knows it, but he acts like the girl that thinks she can change the bad boy. Catwoman is not that much of a villain. She's a thief. She doesn't go out to mass kill a bunch of people. So him having faith in her is not that big a thing. That is no where the same as Erik and Charles. But Charles thinking a guy that would kill every person (mutant and human) on the planet, is still okay, is more Joker and Harley. And I'm talking about movie Xavier. Comic book Xavier was in the military. He's not the type of guy that would sit back and preach about not being violent while having a private militia. Or you are omitting things in your mind. Just like the Joker, movie Magneto is a mental abuser. He breaks you down and builds you up. It's a form of Stockholm. I bet the movie makers are even seeing that they are doing it. They just see it as keeping Magneto around as the series villain. While at the same time making it so that Erik can be with the X-men without them killing him. -They all joined him because they shared his beliefs. That is not a manipulation. Check your dictionary. A leader and a manipulator are two different things. Xavier has his mutants, magneto had his . magneto did not force anyone to be at his side also. Again, magneto trying to manipulate jean until she threatens him with the cure as a result of his manipulation. That was how the story ended. Charles shuts up and takes it, wrong. in the next scene they again clash on their beliefs. That is not shutting up and taking it. does Xavier beliefs change after that? If it did that will be shutting up and taking it. a person storming off in anger is not the same as a person taking it. a person taking it will be to beg for an apology and say I was wrong, you were right. See when Harley calls up joker to apologise and ask if he is still angry with him and joker manipulates her to come home and she does. What part of the movie did you see magneto manipulating Charles to come home with him for more human crime spree and Charles blindly agrees? When did Xavier and Eric stop becoming friends in the xmen movies, they were always friends. They was no friendship to keep going. In DOFP, Eric is happy to see charles after 10 years, As we see in X3 after Xavier dies, pyro said he will would have killed Xavier had he got the chance and magneto told him to shut up and not disrespect Xavier because he did more for mutants than he would ever know. When it comes to friendship, magneto and Xavier showed they equally cared for each other down to their reconciliation in DOFP. Eric: Why do you keep coming her Charles. Xavier: why do you ask question you already know Eric: oh yes we continue to search for hope. It was hope for all mutants, not hope to keep a friendship going. That did not occur on the movie. Which reminds me of the classic episode of the batman tas episode called mad love. After pushing Harley from a top story building, joker sends Harley an apology letter and she gets this sick love puppy face all ready to get back to joker. That is not Charles. Sorry, it is not joker and Harley. I think a joker and Harley thing maybe be moré similar to Steve and Bucky. Magneto tries to make people see his point of view, which we all do. Once again not the same as manipulation. He does a good job until the people he wants to break down and build up start to think for themselves. Good examples, mystique choosing to betray him in X3, Mystique having a mind of her own in DOFP when eric asked her who side she was us on or every time he hurts Xavier and his xmen, yet they don’t adapt to magneto’s beliefs. When next you say magneto is a manipulator, also mentions he fails at it, all the time or don’t call him one at all.
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Post by summers8 on Oct 19, 2017 23:08:53 GMT
I think I remember formersamhmd from the old imdb boards. good thing I have him on ignore. Would not waste my time sparing on nonsense. If more comes back to me, I think thatguy was one of those folks that used to say this movie was a rip off of terminator 2. lol ....because you know... Chris Clarmont is such an intelligent genius that he built a time machine in 1981 went to the year 1992, watch terminator 2 and than came back to the year 1981 to write DOFP comics. Gosh, mad and retarded behaviour like this is the reason the old IMDB board got shut down. you would think some of this people would have grown up by now and stoped all the shit they used to put on the old forums. At least 2.0 seemed more enclosed so even their bullshit will be marginalised.this kind of behaviour is the reason I am happy X-Men series/fans don't have to share house with the MCU. The DoFP movie is not the same as the comic. I never said the comic was a rip-off of T2. The way the movie was made is a rip-off of T2. They didn't break Magneto out of prison in the comic. A guy with a metal skeleton didn't go back in time. There wasn't a woman that was set out to kill a scientist.* They even "killed" the guy from the future by dunking him in liquid. He went back in time to "save" the future resistance leader before he could put the team together. When he went back in time, he arrived there naked. If they were making a movie close to the comic they would have had them go back to X1 when the Brotherhood killed Sen. Kelly. They would have used Kitty (who is in the movie). The funny thing is that, without Superman Returns, I wouldn't have noticed it. *Yes, she did go out to kill someone (a politician), but like I said, they should have gone back to X1. I remember correctly you said it was a direct rip off.. once again, all your argument are dismantled. What the movie did was take the comics and try and slot things to what fit their prequel movies, what was left of X3 and the events of first class but the bigger picture of movie was like the comics. we all know wolverine went back in the time because it worked for the movie universe, kitty was not born then and hugh jackman was the real heart of this movies not Jlaw ..thank god. that has nothing to do with terminator, and you know it. that was you just choosing to pour hatred on the film because MCU movies were lacking with their safe comedic movies. And here was DOFP, this very gripping, dim, serious drama comic film that made all the mcu movies look silly. I know it must have been hard for some of you MCU fans but it was no excuse for your sick behaviour back then to discredit the move as a terminator rip off when you all knew the comics was older than the terminator. We know the movie could not kill off senator kelly because he already died in X1 and X1 was complete by then. from a story point in the movie, it made more sense to kill the guy that created the sentinels and that was a scientist called Boliver Trask, who came before the character scientist in terminator 2. Wolverine, who from the movie stand point was the best person to go back in time already had a metal Skelton, before the terminator ever did. And you bet no one can mistake Wolverine for the Terminator. The naked scene in DOFP, I do also remember correctly that Singer said it was a tribute to the Terminator. Who died in DOFP getting dunked in Liquid? Now we are pushing it and once again your bs is showing. in the comics kitty went back in time to stop an assassination (1981), wolverine did the same in the movie (2014). The terminator did the same in (1992)...you are calling it a resistance?In the comics, there was a resistance, mystique, destiny and her brotherhood of evil mutants that chose to resist all the anti mutant agenda and kill Kelly, who kitty was trying to stop from happening with the help of the xmen., so truly again. how is that a rip off when it occurred in the comics 10 years before the terminator. To be clear, you are still trying to push this bs only this time you don't seem as mad as you did in the original IMDB board were you kept ignoring the comics ever existed and DOFP was this new thing that happened in 2014, I think your madness went as far as you also saying. X-Men was also a rip off of Harry Potter. This was when I realised just how far mcu fans hated xmen went because it exposed MCU own inferiority. And to think there was no Logan, Legion, Gifted and Deadpool then. You might just want to put this to rest now and not ever again imply DOFP ripped off Terminator. drop it.
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Post by formersamhmd on Oct 19, 2017 23:14:05 GMT
we all know wolverine went back in the time because it worked for the movie universe, And because they have no faith in anyone else to carry the film because they were so incompetent with the other characters. The other similarities pointed out paint a different picture. No, just not pretentious. No, just the same old story told for 17 years. Only reason people were interested was because the old cast came back to get a silly fairytale ending. They could easily have made it about trying to save him. No, it's because we want the XCU to catch up with the times and stop acting like its the year 2000. Time to leave that bankrupt "grounded" stuff behind for something more in line with the X-Men comics.
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Post by ThatGuy on Oct 19, 2017 23:20:44 GMT
But they all joined him. So, yes, he manipulated them. He got all the mutants to attack Alcatraz for him. He convinced Pyro to join him. Just because he was already aggressive means nothing. He still left Xavier to join Magneto after what he told him about being a god. You can see the manipulation when Magneto looks at Mystique afterwards with a "Got'em!" expression. Also, you forget about the part when Jean 1st joins Magneto after killing Xavier. That whole scene has Magneto manipulating Jean and riling her up until she kills Charles. And what does Erik do? He coddles her out the door like a child. They substituted Shaw for Magneto. In the comics, the Hellfire Club turns her into Dark Phoenix. Yes Charles backs down. He tries to tell Erik how wrong he is, but Erik tells Charles he is wrong. Then Charles just shuts up and takes it. There is no real argument between them because Charles Erik to have his say letting Erik think he is right. He backs down. Yes, Charles runs back to Erik. X1 and X2 has Xavier constantly visit Erik in prison trying to keep their friendship going. Erik even asks him why he keeps coming there. Charles became a drug addict in DoFP because his "sister" ran off with Erik and he blamed him for 11 years. Erik can't be redeemed and he knows it, but he acts like the girl that thinks she can change the bad boy. Catwoman is not that much of a villain. She's a thief. She doesn't go out to mass kill a bunch of people. So him having faith in her is not that big a thing. That is no where the same as Erik and Charles. But Charles thinking a guy that would kill every person (mutant and human) on the planet, is still okay, is more Joker and Harley. And I'm talking about movie Xavier. Comic book Xavier was in the military. He's not the type of guy that would sit back and preach about not being violent while having a private militia. Or you are omitting things in your mind. Just like the Joker, movie Magneto is a mental abuser. He breaks you down and builds you up. It's a form of Stockholm. I bet the movie makers are even seeing that they are doing it. They just see it as keeping Magneto around as the series villain. While at the same time making it so that Erik can be with the X-men without them killing him. -They all joined him because they shared his beliefs. That is not a manipulation. Check your dictionary. A leader and a manipulator are two different things. Xavier has his mutants, magneto had his . magneto did not force anyone to be at his side also. Again, magneto trying to manipulate jean until she threatens him with the cure as a result of his manipulation. That was how the story ended. Charles shuts up and takes it, wrong. in the next scene they again clash on their beliefs. That is not shutting up and taking it. does Xavier beliefs change after that? If it did that will be shutting up and taking it. a person storming off in anger is not the same as a person taking it. a person taking it will be to beg for an apology and say I was wrong, you were right. See when Harley calls up joker to apologise and ask if he is still angry with him and joker manipulates her to come home and she does. What part of the movie did you see magneto manipulating Charles to come home with him for more human crime spree and Charles blindly agrees? When did Xavier and Eric stop becoming friends in the xmen movies, they were always friends. They was no friendship to keep going. In DOFP, Eric is happy to see charles after 10 years, As we see in X3 after Xavier dies, pyro said he will would have killed Xavier had he got the chance and magneto told him to shut up and not disrespect Xavier because he did more for mutants than he would ever know. When it comes to friendship, magneto and Xavier showed they equally cared for each other down to their reconciliation in DOFP. Eric: Why do you keep coming her Charles. Xavier: why do you ask question you already know Eric: oh yes we continue to search for hope. It was hope for all mutants, not hope to keep a friendship going. That did not occur on the movie. Which reminds me of the classic episode of the batman tas episode called mad love. After pushing Harley from a top story building, joker sends Harley an apology letter and she gets this sick love puppy face all ready to get back to joker. That is not Charles. Sorry, it is not joker and Harley. I think a joker and Harley thing maybe be moré similar to Steve and Bucky. Magneto tries to make people see his point of view, which we all do. Once again not the same as manipulation. He does a good job until the people he wants to break down and build up start to think for themselves. Good examples, mystique choosing to betray him in X3, Mystique having a mind of her own in DOFP when eric asked her who side she was us on or every time he hurts Xavier and his xmen, yet they don’t adapt to magneto’s beliefs. When next you say magneto is a manipulator, also mentions he fails at it, all the time or don’t call him one at all. Manipulation is not forcing someone to do something. It is the opposite. It's getting someone to do something you want them to do. He got those people to go with him to be his army. And them hating what that private company was doing is what Magneto wanted. It's easy to manipulate someone when they want something. Also, a leader and a manipulator aren't mutually exclusive. A leader is a good manipulator, but at the same time, a manipulator isn't always a good leader. But he still manipulated her to follow him and to go to that place and destroy it. Charles's beliefs doesn't have to change. If I remember correctly, Erik calls him arrogant. Charles repeats it then shuts down and lets Erik talk. He then tries to plead with Erik about not killing Shaw. Cowed. When does Erik call on Charles and Charles blindly agrees? Whenever they become friends again. He actually asked Erik to teach at the school at the end of Apocalypse... When were they not friends? The original trilogy. He was happy to be rescued from a prison in DoFP. Now let's switch that around to X1 when Erik is free. He can't get away from Xavier fast enough. He wasn't Charles's friend in the OT, he only respected him. No, that was hope for Erik himself. Not for their friendship. But for this man to stop being evil. Also, to keep an eye on him. His Puddin'. lol Oh you mean like when Erik sent Mystique to put him into a coma through Cerebro and he constantly comes to visit him in prison? Steve and Bucky are actual friends. Bucky was being mind controlled and he actual laid low until someone brought him back by framing him. Erik is always brought back into the game by something he did or Xavier. "Magneto tries to make people see his point of view, which we all do. Once again not the same as manipulation." You are thinking of it like I'm saying he's using telepathy or seduction. Making a person see what you want them to see without giving all the facts is manipulation. Here's a scenario. I make a serum for mutants. Magneto would tell you that the serum will take away your powers. But in reality the serum only lowers the strength of your powers so you can train in the use of them without killing people and it only lasts an hour. Half truth from Magneto. Also, being a manipulator doesn't mean you succeed.
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Post by formersamhmd on Oct 19, 2017 23:35:24 GMT
If Xavier had any spine, he'd have told Erik that anyone in his group who died were killers themselves and he wouldn't shed a tear for them.
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Post by ThatGuy on Oct 20, 2017 0:09:23 GMT
The DoFP movie is not the same as the comic. I never said the comic was a rip-off of T2. The way the movie was made is a rip-off of T2. They didn't break Magneto out of prison in the comic. A guy with a metal skeleton didn't go back in time. There wasn't a woman that was set out to kill a scientist.* They even "killed" the guy from the future by dunking him in liquid. He went back in time to "save" the future resistance leader before he could put the team together. When he went back in time, he arrived there naked. If they were making a movie close to the comic they would have had them go back to X1 when the Brotherhood killed Sen. Kelly. They would have used Kitty (who is in the movie). The funny thing is that, without Superman Returns, I wouldn't have noticed it. *Yes, she did go out to kill someone (a politician), but like I said, they should have gone back to X1. I remember correctly you said it was a direct rip off.. once again, all your argument are dismantled. What the movie did was take the comics and try and slot things to what fit their prequel movies, what was left of X3 and the events of first class but the bigger picture of movie was like the comics. we all know wolverine went back in the time because it worked for the movie universe, kitty was not born then and hugh jackman was the real heart of this movies not Jlaw ..thank god. that has nothing to do with terminator, and you know it. that was you just choosing to pour hatred on the film because MCU movies were lacking with their safe comedic movies. And here was DOFP, this very gripping, dim, serious drama comic film that made all the mcu movies look silly. I know it must have been hard for some of you MCU fans but it was no excuse for your sick behaviour back then to discredit the move as a terminator rip off when you all knew the comics was older than the terminator. We know the movie could not kill off senator kelly because he already died in X1 and X1 was complete by then. from a story point in the movie, it made more sense to kill the guy that created the sentinels and that was a scientist called Boliver Trask, who came before the character scientist in terminator 2. Wolverine, who from the movie stand point was the best person to go back in time already had a metal Skelton, before the terminator ever did. And you bet no one can mistake Wolverine for the Terminator. The naked scene in DOFP, I do also remember correctly that Singer said it was a tribute to the Terminator. Who died in DOFP getting dunked in Liquid? Now we are pushing it and once again your bs is showing. in the comics kitty went back in time to stop an assassination (1981), wolverine did the same in the movie (2014). The terminator did the same in (1992)...you are calling it a resistance?In the comics, there was a resistance, mystique, destiny and her brotherhood of evil mutants that chose to resist all the anti mutant agenda and kill Kelly, who kitty was trying to stop from happening with the help of the xmen., so truly again. how is that a rip off when it occurred in the comics 10 years before the terminator. To be clear, you are still trying to push this bs only this time you don't seem as mad as you did in the original IMDB board were you kept ignoring the comics ever existed and DOFP was this new thing that happened in 2014, I think your madness went as far as you also saying. X-Men was also a rip off of Harry Potter. This was when I realised just how far mcu fans hated xmen went because it exposed MCU own inferiority. And to think there was no Logan, Legion, Gifted and Deadpool then. You might just want to put this to rest now and not ever again imply DOFP ripped off Terminator. drop it. I direct rip-off of what? The comics or the movies? Because, yes, Singer (not Claremont) did rip-off the movie. He even said he went to Cameron for help on time travel. He also said he went to Lucas for X1 and that movie (and X2) is a bit Star Wars-y. My dislike for DoFP has nothing to do with the MCU. No movie I watch has nothing to do with another. I don't think of other movies unless it is blatant they are ripping off another. Hell, I was laughing like crazy cause I figured out that Guardians of the Galaxy vol 2 was making fun of Man of Steel. No my dislike for DoFP is because it is unoriginal. And that's not because it was an adaption of a comic story. How did it make more sense to kill the guy who created the sentinels? She didn't kill him because he was creating the sentinels. She killed him because he killed her friends. He only had specs for the sentinels and prototypes when she killed him. And no one except his people knew about them. The entire movie was a tribute to Terminator. Future Wolverine was killed when Magneto threw him into the river. Drowning him... Killed in liquid. Also, did you see the Days of Future Past episode of X-men the Animated Series? They used Bishop. Wuuuuuh?! And Bishop was in the movie, too! Oh. My. God... They didn't have to have it like the comics. They chose to use that way of time travel so Wolverine was the only one to go. The resistance is the X-men. Not that group that Kitty led in DoFP. Xavier didn't create the X-men in DoFP, but he did by the time X1 rolled around. A future resistance group from the time of the movie. You see, in the comics there was a group of X-men in the past that Kitty went to to stop an assassination. You see, no one knew it was Mystique. There was also a group of mutants that Xavier led in First Class. What happened to that group in DoFP. They didn't have a group of people helping Uncle Bob and John in Terminator 2, so... X-men being a rip-off of Harry Potter? There's an app for that. Hey did you know that Miss Peregrine's Home for Peculiar Children is a rip-off of X-men? I mean, look at the title. It's the same as Xavier's School for Gifted Youngsters. It's like this: I don't care. It's you that brought up the past. I forgot about DoFP being a rip-off of T2. So I'm not still pushing anything. It's like you wanted to make a point so you brought this back up to finish something. What Singer did was get 2 jigsaw puzzles, an X-men and a Terminator. Both of them with the same cut pattern. He then put it together using both. He got a story and used a similar movie to make it. He did the same thing with Superman Returns. At least that one was in the same series with the same character. If you read an earlier post, I said I was "that's not right" type of guy. I just had to correct you because:
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Post by ThatGuy on Oct 20, 2017 0:13:53 GMT
Another thing. Why do you guys keep saying that I hate X-men because of the MCU? Why do you keep ignoring it when I say that I didn't like X2? It's not a new thing. I didn't like it when it 1st came out. Hell, I don't like Spider-man 2. I didn't like it when it 1st came out either. Tell me, what does that have to do with the MCU? There was no MCU. Kevin Feige even worked on those movies and he's the one in charge of the MCU.
Also, I liked Logan and Deadpool and First Class. Those movies came out after the MCU started.
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Post by formersamhmd on Oct 20, 2017 0:25:52 GMT
Another thing. Why do you guys keep saying that I hate X-men because of the MCU? Because they hate the MCU and automatically assume that anyone who likes the MCU feels the same way about the XCU. Apparently it's sacred to them.
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Post by summers8 on Oct 20, 2017 5:57:41 GMT
I remember correctly you said it was a direct rip off.. once again, all your argument are dismantled. What the movie did was take the comics and try and slot things to what fit their prequel movies, what was left of X3 and the events of first class but the bigger picture of movie was like the comics. we all know wolverine went back in the time because it worked for the movie universe, kitty was not born then and hugh jackman was the real heart of this movies not Jlaw ..thank god. that has nothing to do with terminator, and you know it. that was you just choosing to pour hatred on the film because MCU movies were lacking with their safe comedic movies. And here was DOFP, this very gripping, dim, serious drama comic film that made all the mcu movies look silly. I know it must have been hard for some of you MCU fans but it was no excuse for your sick behaviour back then to discredit the move as a terminator rip off when you all knew the comics was older than the terminator. We know the movie could not kill off senator kelly because he already died in X1 and X1 was complete by then. from a story point in the movie, it made more sense to kill the guy that created the sentinels and that was a scientist called Boliver Trask, who came before the character scientist in terminator 2. Wolverine, who from the movie stand point was the best person to go back in time already had a metal Skelton, before the terminator ever did. And you bet no one can mistake Wolverine for the Terminator. The naked scene in DOFP, I do also remember correctly that Singer said it was a tribute to the Terminator. Who died in DOFP getting dunked in Liquid? Now we are pushing it and once again your bs is showing. in the comics kitty went back in time to stop an assassination (1981), wolverine did the same in the movie (2014). The terminator did the same in (1992)...you are calling it a resistance?In the comics, there was a resistance, mystique, destiny and her brotherhood of evil mutants that chose to resist all the anti mutant agenda and kill Kelly, who kitty was trying to stop from happening with the help of the xmen., so truly again. how is that a rip off when it occurred in the comics 10 years before the terminator. To be clear, you are still trying to push this bs only this time you don't seem as mad as you did in the original IMDB board were you kept ignoring the comics ever existed and DOFP was this new thing that happened in 2014, I think your madness went as far as you also saying. X-Men was also a rip off of Harry Potter. This was when I realised just how far mcu fans hated xmen went because it exposed MCU own inferiority. And to think there was no Logan, Legion, Gifted and Deadpool then. You might just want to put this to rest now and not ever again imply DOFP ripped off Terminator. drop it. I direct rip-off of what? The comics or the movies? Because, yes, Singer (not Claremont) did rip-off the movie. He even said he went to Cameron for help on time travel. He also said he went to Lucas for X1 and that movie (and X2) is a bit Star Wars-y. My dislike for DoFP has nothing to do with the MCU. No movie I watch has nothing to do with another. I don't think of other movies unless it is blatant they are ripping off another. Hell, I was laughing like crazy cause I figured out that Guardians of the Galaxy vol 2 was making fun of Man of Steel. No my dislike for DoFP is because it is unoriginal. And that's not because it was an adaption of a comic story. How did it make more sense to kill the guy who created the sentinels? She didn't kill him because he was creating the sentinels. She killed him because he killed her friends. He only had specs for the sentinels and prototypes when she killed him. And no one except his people knew about them. The entire movie was a tribute to Terminator. Future Wolverine was killed when Magneto threw him into the river. Drowning him... Killed in liquid. Also, did you see the Days of Future Past episode of X-men the Animated Series? They used Bishop. Wuuuuuh?! And Bishop was in the movie, too! Oh. My. God... They didn't have to have it like the comics. They chose to use that way of time travel so Wolverine was the only one to go. The resistance is the X-men. Not that group that Kitty led in DoFP. Xavier didn't create the X-men in DoFP, but he did by the time X1 rolled around. A future resistance group from the time of the movie. You see, in the comics there was a group of X-men in the past that Kitty went to to stop an assassination. You see, no one knew it was Mystique. There was also a group of mutants that Xavier led in First Class. What happened to that group in DoFP. They didn't have a group of people helping Uncle Bob and John in Terminator 2, so... X-men being a rip-off of Harry Potter? There's an app for that. Hey did you know that Miss Peregrine's Home for Peculiar Children is a rip-off of X-men? I mean, look at the title. It's the same as Xavier's School for Gifted Youngsters. It's like this: I don't care. It's you that brought up the past. I forgot about DoFP being a rip-off of T2. So I'm not still pushing anything. It's like you wanted to make a point so you brought this back up to finish something. What Singer did was get 2 jigsaw puzzles, an X-men and a Terminator. Both of them with the same cut pattern. He then put it together using both. He got a story and used a similar movie to make it. He did the same thing with Superman Returns. At least that one was in the same series with the same character. If you read an earlier post, I said I was "that's not right" type of guy. I just had to correct you because: Singer ripped off the comics. He went to Cameron for time travel because of the similarities of the comics, he was not trying to rip it off. Do you know how many people in Hollywood seek advice from others who have done something similar to what they are about to do? once again, you try to twist this whole thing to support your bs. I think I already answered the question why it made more sense, in the movie they had already killed off Kelly. Secondly in the movie, which was a direct sequel to first class not a direct sequel to the comics, trask did kill her friends so it was justified in the content of the movie. I do remember correctly that in the movie, they captured her and learnt of her powers of adapting. you are seriously asking why it made more sense to kill a person that created machines to exterminate your kind and killed your friends?? could you be any more ridiculous? The entire movie was not a tribute to terminator, it was a tribute to the comics because that was what the comics was about. Stopping an assassination Sending an X-Men back in time Stopping a dystopia world
Time travel by consciousness of mind.
This was the comics, before the terminator. I do remember they used bishop because in TAS there was no kitty pryde and in the cartoons, Bishop was also a time traveler from a different future in the comics. TAS was also loosely adapted like the movie . The movie indeed chose to use time travel so only wolverine could go because he was the heart of the movies, he was the most experienced and he was the strongest of what they had left from the adult characters of the old x-men trilogy. Wolverine going has nothing to do with a guy having metal in the bodies because wolverine was created first before the terminator. dont repeat this nonsense again.The resistance is both the X-Men and the brotherhood of evil mutants depending on who’s side you are one or your POV. In the comics kitty went to the xmen to get them together to stop the assassination, in the movies wolverine went to the xmen what was left of it after First Class( not after dark phoenix like in the comics) which was Xavier and beast to help him try and stop the assassination. In the comics, kitty told them it was mystique and her brotherhood of mutants they needed to stop at a political hearing. In the movies wolverine said it was mystique they needed to stop at a political hearing. Again, quite similar to the comics not terminator . Do remember also that this is a comic adaption so nothing was directly alike same, can be said for Civil War, Watchmen and the death of superman/dawn of justice. Uum, wait are you saying x-men is a rip off of harry potter? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Potter_influences_and_analoguesclearly not really. I take that to be sarcasm. You said that on IMDB out of spite. As for people saying you hate xmen because of the MCU, that used to be your behavior, I do recall you were called out again because you went on the Xforce board and trashed the movie. You will trash the xmen movies with bs reasons but defend the MCU movies that were clearly weaker and more superficial. It does have a lot to do with MCU because MCU fans hate marvel movies not made by the MCU and go to great lengths to discredit those movie like you are doing now with DOFP/Terminator 2. Let me guess, you think Homecoming is better than Spiderman 1 and 2 right? I don't buy you liking first class and Logan or legion. You seemed hurt by Legion's distinctive critical acclaim, it was too much you indeed. As I said unless you can show me Claremont himself time traveled, what you said is pure BS. trust me had DOFP been such an openly blatant rip off, the reception of the film would not have escaped that level of criticism or notice by others, see your avengers and gotg sequels that ripped of their first movies and the reaction those sequels got for ripping of their first movies. But as an MCU fan, I bet you will rush to start defending those movies. so do drop it.
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Post by summers8 on Oct 20, 2017 6:09:57 GMT
-They all joined him because they shared his beliefs. That is not a manipulation. Check your dictionary. A leader and a manipulator are two different things. Xavier has his mutants, magneto had his . magneto did not force anyone to be at his side also. Again, magneto trying to manipulate jean until she threatens him with the cure as a result of his manipulation. That was how the story ended. Charles shuts up and takes it, wrong. in the next scene they again clash on their beliefs. That is not shutting up and taking it. does Xavier beliefs change after that? If it did that will be shutting up and taking it. a person storming off in anger is not the same as a person taking it. a person taking it will be to beg for an apology and say I was wrong, you were right. See when Harley calls up joker to apologise and ask if he is still angry with him and joker manipulates her to come home and she does. What part of the movie did you see magneto manipulating Charles to come home with him for more human crime spree and Charles blindly agrees? When did Xavier and Eric stop becoming friends in the xmen movies, they were always friends. They was no friendship to keep going. In DOFP, Eric is happy to see charles after 10 years, As we see in X3 after Xavier dies, pyro said he will would have killed Xavier had he got the chance and magneto told him to shut up and not disrespect Xavier because he did more for mutants than he would ever know. When it comes to friendship, magneto and Xavier showed they equally cared for each other down to their reconciliation in DOFP. Eric: Why do you keep coming her Charles. Xavier: why do you ask question you already know Eric: oh yes we continue to search for hope. It was hope for all mutants, not hope to keep a friendship going. That did not occur on the movie. Which reminds me of the classic episode of the batman tas episode called mad love. After pushing Harley from a top story building, joker sends Harley an apology letter and she gets this sick love puppy face all ready to get back to joker. That is not Charles. Sorry, it is not joker and Harley. I think a joker and Harley thing maybe be moré similar to Steve and Bucky. Magneto tries to make people see his point of view, which we all do. Once again not the same as manipulation. He does a good job until the people he wants to break down and build up start to think for themselves. Good examples, mystique choosing to betray him in X3, Mystique having a mind of her own in DOFP when eric asked her who side she was us on or every time he hurts Xavier and his xmen, yet they don’t adapt to magneto’s beliefs. When next you say magneto is a manipulator, also mentions he fails at it, all the time or don’t call him one at all. Manipulation is not forcing someone to do something. It is the opposite. It's getting someone to do something you want them to do. He got those people to go with him to be his army. And them hating what that private company was doing is what Magneto wanted. It's easy to manipulate someone when they want something. Also, a leader and a manipulator aren't mutually exclusive. A leader is a good manipulator, but at the same time, a manipulator isn't always a good leader. But he still manipulated her to follow him and to go to that place and destroy it. Charles's beliefs doesn't have to change. If I remember correctly, Erik calls him arrogant. Charles repeats it then shuts down and lets Erik talk. He then tries to plead with Erik about not killing Shaw. Cowed. When does Erik call on Charles and Charles blindly agrees? Whenever they become friends again. He actually asked Erik to teach at the school at the end of Apocalypse... When were they not friends? The original trilogy. He was happy to be rescued from a prison in DoFP. Now let's switch that around to X1 when Erik is free. He can't get away from Xavier fast enough. He wasn't Charles's friend in the OT, he only respected him. No, that was hope for Erik himself. Not for their friendship. But for this man to stop being evil. Also, to keep an eye on him. His Puddin'. lol Oh you mean like when Erik sent Mystique to put him into a coma through Cerebro and he constantly comes to visit him in prison? Steve and Bucky are actual friends. Bucky was being mind controlled and he actual laid low until someone brought him back by framing him. Erik is always brought back into the game by something he did or Xavier. "Magneto tries to make people see his point of view, which we all do. Once again not the same as manipulation." You are thinking of it like I'm saying he's using telepathy or seduction. Making a person see what you want them to see without giving all the facts is manipulation. Here's a scenario. I make a serum for mutants. Magneto would tell you that the serum will take away your powers. But in reality the serum only lowers the strength of your powers so you can train in the use of them without killing people and it only lasts an hour. Half truth from Magneto. Also, being a manipulator doesn't mean you succeed. So in a nutshell, the 45 presidents of the USA manipulated people to vote for them.
Also, is not like Magneto is wrong. most of the things he said are right and many mutants stand by him. many mutants see it. Magneto been right debunks your manipulation nonsense. Your last paragraph is laughable.
Funny in the space of the movies and even comics, Magneto point of view seem to have gotten it right more than Charles who is naive. interesting you left that out.
Yes Charles beliefs does have to change. that change was the deciding factor with joker and haley. Harley quinn changed her beliefs even her own name to become a tool for the joker. so again your bs nonsense has been exposed.
Mystique like the comics and some of the cartoons is magneto henchman right? she agrees with his vision and they work and fight together for their cause. she goes on mission for him , because he is the leader.
Let me bring it closer to home, everything black widow does, going on a mission of Shield is all manipulation too by your narrative. same for fury getting all the avengers together to stop alien threats, that is all manipulation as well.
and there you go rushing to defend awful mcu movies. bucky is brainwashed just like harley is. And no they were not friends anymore (from bucky's pov) because Bucky stopped thinking for himself thanks to brainwashing, meanwhile steve will bend over for bucky and will break all the rules in the book same way harley will bend over for joker. that is why they are similar unlike batman and catwoman and eric and charles where what drives them apart is their beliefs. yet they great eachother as old friends..always
Gotta love you mcu fans, you are falling into your own trap here. this is what happens when you try to take on the xmen movies and spew your bs what it does it exposes the weakness of your mcu movies like it just did with bucky and steve, who also seem to have a dependent chase me friendship like guess who? joker and harley.
Please do try harder and use the comics
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Post by summers8 on Oct 20, 2017 6:14:12 GMT
Manipulation is not forcing someone to do something. It is the opposite. It's getting someone to do something you want them to do. He got those people to go with him to be his army. And them hating what that private company was doing is what Magneto wanted. It's easy to manipulate someone when they want something. Also, a leader and a manipulator aren't mutually exclusive. A leader is a good manipulator, but at the same time, a manipulator isn't always a good leader. But he still manipulated her to follow him and to go to that place and destroy it. Charles's beliefs doesn't have to change. If I remember correctly, Erik calls him arrogant. Charles repeats it then shuts down and lets Erik talk. He then tries to plead with Erik about not killing Shaw. Cowed. When does Erik call on Charles and Charles blindly agrees? Whenever they become friends again. He actually asked Erik to teach at the school at the end of Apocalypse... When were they not friends? The original trilogy. He was happy to be rescued from a prison in DoFP. Now let's switch that around to X1 when Erik is free. He can't get away from Xavier fast enough. He wasn't Charles's friend in the OT, he only respected him. No, that was hope for Erik himself. Not for their friendship. But for this man to stop being evil. Also, to keep an eye on him. His Puddin'. lol Oh you mean like when Erik sent Mystique to put him into a coma through Cerebro and he constantly comes to visit him in prison? Steve and Bucky are actual friends. Bucky was being mind controlled and he actual laid low until someone brought him back by framing him. Erik is always brought back into the game by something he did or Xavier. "Magneto tries to make people see his point of view, which we all do. Once again not the same as manipulation." You are thinking of it like I'm saying he's using telepathy or seduction. Making a person see what you want them to see without giving all the facts is manipulation. Here's a scenario. I make a serum for mutants. Magneto would tell you that the serum will take away your powers. But in reality the serum only lowers the strength of your powers so you can train in the use of them without killing people and it only lasts an hour. Half truth from Magneto. Also, being a manipulator doesn't mean you succeed. So in a nutshell, the 45 presidents of the USA manipulated people to vote for them. Also, is not like Magneto is wrong. most of the things he said are right and many mutants stand by him. many mutants see it. Magneto been right debunks your manipulation nonsense. Harley quinn changed her beliefs even her own name to become a tool for the joker. Mystique like the comics and some of the cartoons is magneto henchman right? she agrees with his vision and they work fight together cause. she goes on mission for him , because he is the leader. did you ever read comics? Let me bring it closer to home, everything black widow does, going on mission of Shield is all manipulation too by your narrative. and there you go rushing to defend awful mcu movies. bucky is brainwashed just like harley is. And no they were not friends anymore because Bucky stopped thinking for himself thanks to brainwashing, meanwhile steve will bend over for bucky and will break all the rules in the book same way harley will bend over for joker. that is why they are similar In the movies Charles and Eric were still friends but once again their belief drove them apart. Gotta love you mcu fans, you are falling into your own trap here. this is what happens when you try to take on the xmen movies and spew your bs what it does it exposes the weakness of your mcu movies. I knew there was reason why DOFP was so much better than civil war and the winter solider, thanks for reminding me.
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Post by charzhino on Oct 20, 2017 9:25:48 GMT
"You're so full of shit! If you're really so righteous, it'd be you in that thing." -Wolverine (X1) And yes, Erik is a coward. His whole thing (in the movies) is that he fears going through what he went through as a kid again. He built that machine and used it on Senator Kelly knowing it could kill himself. Dont think thats cowardly. He needed to be alive to lead the mutant rebellion because of his genius level intellect, not as if Toad Sabertooth or Mistique are natural intelligent leaders. Hes shown to use mutants as sacrifices for the greater good throughout the films, including the pawns in X3 you mentioned. Hes taking a big risk just being there. The point is, hes not like Shaw who craves a world domination scenario or Apocalypses who wants to be worshipped. Hes essentially the mirror image of Stryker and will go to great lengths and make sacrifices through losing their family (Eriks parents/wife/child and Strykers son/wife) to achieve their aims which transcend any idea of a throne. I dont believe they fit descriptions of cowards, just revolutionaries doing whatever it takes at all costs for impersonal gains. And Magneto talks very childlike to Jean/Dark Phoenix which does seem very manipulative on the surface. But I think that is because he knows that the Phoenix force is controlling her which is very instinctual, childlike and non-human as adult mature Jean is trapped. In X2 he is liberating Pyro, not manipulating. He clearly believes that Charles has brainwashed his students with his equality dogma. He wants students to think for themselves and make their own choices.
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Post by formersamhmd on Oct 20, 2017 11:07:44 GMT
So in a nutshell, the 45 presidents of the USA manipulated people to vote for them. Also, is not like Magneto is wrong. most of the things he said are right and many mutants stand by him. many mutants see it. Magneto been right debunks your manipulation nonsense. Harley quinn changed her beliefs even her own name to become a tool for the joker. Mystique like the comics and some of the cartoons is magneto henchman right? she agrees with his vision and they work fight together cause. she goes on mission for him , because he is the leader. did you ever read comics? Let me bring it closer to home, everything black widow does, going on mission of Shield is all manipulation too by your narrative. and there you go rushing to defend awful mcu movies. bucky is brainwashed just like harley is. And no they were not friends anymore because Bucky stopped thinking for himself thanks to brainwashing, meanwhile steve will bend over for bucky and will break all the rules in the book same way harley will bend over for joker. that is why they are similar In the movies Charles and Eric were still friends but once again their belief drove them apart. Gotta love you mcu fans, you are falling into your own trap here. this is what happens when you try to take on the xmen movies and spew your bs what it does it exposes the weakness of your mcu movies. I knew there was reason why DOFP was so much better than civil war and the winter solider, thanks for reminding me. The fact you keep talking like Bucky is totally under Hydra control still makes it clear you haven't been paying attention very well...but that's usually the case with FoX-Men fans when complaining about the MCU. They superficially watch it and make silly superficial observations. And no, Charles and Erik were hardly friends. They knew each other for a few months and then split apart. Compared to Steve and Bucky that's nothing. And no, DOFP wasn't better than Civil War or WS. The only reason anyone liked it was because they brought back the old cast to give them a silly fairytale ending. Try harder.
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