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Post by charzhino on Oct 20, 2017 12:04:09 GMT
And no, DOFP wasn't better than Civil War or WS. The only reason anyone liked it was because they brought back the old cast to give them a silly fairytale ending. Try harder. Nope DOFP was better. All CW had going for it was the airport scene, which itself is tonally inconsistent with the rest of the film and the premise is based on shaky grounds with Zemos convulated plan. Plus, the quicksilver scene was better and more memorable. The plot of DOFP is more interesting and the character's get complete arcs. It doesn't need action to sell it, the writing and dialogue is superior in every way. |
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Post by summers8 on Oct 20, 2017 13:30:07 GMT
"You're so full of shit! If you're really so righteous, it'd be you in that thing." -Wolverine (X1) And yes, Erik is a coward. His whole thing (in the movies) is that he fears going through what he went through as a kid again. He built that machine and used it on Senator Kelly knowing it could kill himself. Dont think thats cowardly. He needed to be alive to lead the mutant rebellion because of his genius level intellect, not as if Toad Sabertooth or Mistique are natural intelligent leaders. Hes shown to use mutants as sacrifices for the greater good throughout the films, including the pawns in X3 you mentioned. Hes taking a big risk just being there. The point is, hes not like Shaw who craves a world domination scenario or Apocalypses who wants to be worshipped. Hes essentially the mirror image of Stryker and will go to great lengths and make sacrifices through losing their family (Eriks parents/wife/child and Strykers son/wife) to achieve their aims which transcend any idea of a throne. I dont believe they fit descriptions of cowards, just revolutionaries doing whatever it takes at all costs for impersonal gains. And Magneto talks very childlike to Jean/Dark Phoenix which does seem very manipulative on the surface. But I think that is because he knows that the Phoenix force is controlling her which is very instinctual, childlike and non-human as adult mature Jean is trapped. In X2 he is liberating Pyro, not manipulating. He clearly believes that Charles has brainwashed his students with his equality dogma. He wants students to think for themselves and make their own choices.
you have to pity thatguy, all this bs on the xmen movies is a result of the comedic silly nonsense of marvel movies, please just look at the thor reviews, all fun and jokes, no story or substance.
Liked you used the term liberating pyro. clearly thatguy did not see when pyro turned into a mini magneto at bobby's house before he met the real magneto.
using the term manipulation to describe magneto is not gonna make it get added to the dictionary.
at least he is pretending he likes first class, which is a huge thing because it is hard to see anyone like the indepth first class and the derivate civil war. definitely not us xfans, we at least live in the real word with actual facts
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Post by formersamhmd on Oct 20, 2017 20:15:15 GMT
And no, DOFP wasn't better than Civil War or WS. The only reason anyone liked it was because they brought back the old cast to give them a silly fairytale ending. Try harder. Nope DOFP was better. All DOFP was is the same story we've had for 17 years. It just had the booster from the old cast coming back. Other than that, it was predictable. Zemo's plan was no more convoluted than anything Joker did in TDK. And there was more to CW than the Airport scene. No, it was a perfect encapsulation of how there's no thought put into the XCU. A character like QS could've easily ended the movie then and there, but they drop him right after that because no one was thinking of the long-term stuff. The MCU doesn't create overpowered characters and then drop them when they're not convenient to the plot, they think it through FIRST and then write the story. Predictable. Nope, no one does except a little for Mystique and that contrived bit of Xaviers' that came out of nowhere and was resolved out of nowhere. Tony's PTSD was handled better than Xaviers' stuff. Fixed. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Oct 20, 2017 20:21:02 GMT
you have to pity thatguy, all this bs on the xmen movies is a result of the comedic silly nonsense of marvel movies, please just look at the thor reviews, all fun and jokes, no story or substance. Typical of an FoX-Men fan, reading books by their covers. He did, he probably just thought it was unimpressive. There's no backstory reasoning for why Pyro was like that, no buildup or anything. [/p]
Fixed.
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Post by summers8 on Oct 20, 2017 20:41:53 GMT
A drop on pyro, in the comics he was in the brotherhood of mutants. it was good that X2 did give him a mini story in the movie of how he ended up with magneto and mystique, where he kind of belonged until the later part of the comics.
we sometimes tend to dismiss the supporting characters in the xmen movies like bobby and pyro, yet this characters tend to show more depth to them than most of the characters in avengers movies that are way too busy blowing up stuff and selling toys to children.
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Post by formersamhmd on Oct 20, 2017 21:10:12 GMT
A drop on pyro, in the comics he was in the brotherhood of mutants. it was good that X2 did give him a mini story in the movie of how he ended up with magneto and mystique, where he kind of belonged until the later part of the comics. we sometimes tend to dismiss the supporting characters in the xmen movies like bobby and pyro, yet this characters tend to show more depth to them than most of the characters in avengers movies that are way too busing blowing up stuff and selling toys to children. Too bad they didn't give him any real character beyond "foil to Iceman". We got no real backstory or explanation for why he acts the way he does. Nope, the Avengers outdo all the X-Supporting characters in depth. Hell, the MCU have more depth to Germans in WWII in ONE scene than any scene of Magneto's past did. |
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Post by charzhino on Oct 20, 2017 21:13:02 GMT
Zemo's plan was no more convoluted than anything Joker did in TDK. And there was more to CW than the Airport scene. I had problems with Jokers perfect timings and coincidences of his stunts; especially the boat scene. And Zemos is no different. Its the very definition of convulated, thus hard to believe he pulls it off. Like how Vision is deliberately sidelined whilst the Avengers play fight in their fake "civil war" until the plot needs him. Wolverine plays the voice of reason and learns to accomplish a mission through non violent means as at the beginning of the film he is unsure about being sent into the past since Kitty needs him to think "peaceful thoughts " - sonething against Wolverines nature. Charles gets out of a depressive state of addiction and learns how hope is more powerfully than any other mutant ability. He also learns to give up being a control freak and let Raven make her own choices. Mistique starts off on a solo vengeful crusade against Stryker but by the end appreciates Xaviers advice and doesn't go through with her original intention to kill. And by the way this is what Xavier wants Magneto to do, change his behaviour for good like Mistique does but Eric is a harder nut to crack. There's 3 clear character arcs not previously seen in any other X-film. So no it's not just the same old story for 17 years. |
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Post by charzhino on Oct 20, 2017 21:18:55 GMT
There's no backstory reasoning for why Pyro was like that, no buildup or anything. There is, its just done very subtly and not spoonfed. In X2 he goes to Bobbys house and therrs a short scene hes looking at the family pictures of Bobby and his happy family. The music and his facial expressions tells you more than spoken dialogue ever would. No surprise MCU fanatics miss things like this because they dont watch movies that have any artistic style in them. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Oct 20, 2017 21:19:06 GMT
I had problems with Jokers perfect timings and coincidences of his stunts; especially the boat scene. And Zemos is no different. Its the very definition of convulated, thus hard to believe he pulls it off. Zemo's plan was actually LESS convoluted than Joker, actually. And no, before you say it he didn't plan on Iron Man getting there just in time to see the tape. That was just luck. He was taken out by Wanda and needed time to recover. Easy answer. He already got that point by the end of X3. DOFP gave us nothing new. He got over his depression and a decade of alcoholism and drugs in ONE SCENE. That's the epitome of contrived. So she goes from a cold-blooded killer to a cold-blooded wannabe killer. And then wastes the next ten years doing jack all when she could've used her position to truly help mutants.[/quote] |
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Post by formersamhmd on Oct 20, 2017 21:22:35 GMT
There's no backstory reasoning for why Pyro was like that, no buildup or anything. There is, its just done very subtly and not spoonfed. In X2 he goes to Bobbys house and therrs a short scene hes looking at the family pictures of Bobby and his happy family. The music and his facial expressions tells you more than spoken dialogue ever would. No surprise MCU fanatics miss things like this because they dont watch movies that have any artistic style in them. No, it's not. He's just a hot-blooded dick right from his first scene when he's a dick to two people at the Museum for no reason and then sets one of them on fire because they turn his dickish-ness back on him. One minor scene after all that is next to nothing but some minor justification after the fact. It's poor writing. And it still makes him nothing but a foil for Bobby. You want depth out of a minor character, look at Dr Erskine pointing out how people forget that the Germans were the first ones conquered by the Nazis in The First Avenger. X-Men would never have a scene with that depth, they're too busy making every German a hardcore Nazi. |
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Post by charzhino on Oct 20, 2017 21:26:20 GMT
There is, its just done very subtly and not spoonfed. In X2 he goes to Bobbys house and therrs a short scene hes looking at the family pictures of Bobby and his happy family. The music and his facial expressions tells you more than spoken dialogue ever would. No surprise MCU fanatics miss things like this because they dont watch movies that have any artistic style in them. No, it's not. He's just a hot-blooded dick right from his first scene when he's a dick to two people at the Museum for no reason and then sets one of them on fire because they turn his dickish-ness back on him. One minor scene after all that is next to nothing. You want depth out of a minor character, look at Dr Erskine pointing out how people forget that the Germans were the first ones conquered by the Nazis in The First Avenger. X-Men would never have a scene with that depth. Well hes a hot headed dick who is rebellious because hes obviously had a bad upbringing from the scene I pointed out. Hes jealous of Bobbys perfect happy family with both loving parents living together. He probably grew up in a broken single parent household with an abusive father. Its oretty clear what that scene looking at family portraits implies. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Oct 20, 2017 21:28:06 GMT
No, it's not. He's just a hot-blooded dick right from his first scene when he's a dick to two people at the Museum for no reason and then sets one of them on fire because they turn his dickish-ness back on him. One minor scene after all that is next to nothing. You want depth out of a minor character, look at Dr Erskine pointing out how people forget that the Germans were the first ones conquered by the Nazis in The First Avenger. X-Men would never have a scene with that depth. Well hes hot headed dick who rebellious because hes obviously had a bad upbringing from the scene I pointed out. One minor after-the-fact scene like that is just poor writing. It just serves to make him nothing but a foil for Bobby. Nebula had more depth to her in GOTG1 than him. |
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Post by ThatGuy on Oct 21, 2017 4:32:05 GMT
"You're so full of shit! If you're really so righteous, it'd be you in that thing." -Wolverine (X1) And yes, Erik is a coward. His whole thing (in the movies) is that he fears going through what he went through as a kid again. He built that machine and used it on Senator Kelly knowing it could kill himself. Dont think thats cowardly. He needed to be alive to lead the mutant rebellion because of his genius level intellect, not as if Toad Sabertooth or Mistique are natural intelligent leaders. Hes shown to use mutants as sacrifices for the greater good throughout the films, including the pawns in X3 you mentioned. Hes taking a big risk just being there. The point is, hes not like Shaw who craves a world domination scenario or Apocalypses who wants to be worshipped. Hes essentially the mirror image of Stryker and will go to great lengths and make sacrifices through losing their family (Eriks parents/wife/child and Strykers son/wife) to achieve their aims which transcend any idea of a throne. I dont believe they fit descriptions of cowards, just revolutionaries doing whatever it takes at all costs for impersonal gains. And Magneto talks very childlike to Jean/Dark Phoenix which does seem very manipulative on the surface. But I think that is because he knows that the Phoenix force is controlling her which is very instinctual, childlike and non-human as adult mature Jean is trapped. In X2 he is liberating Pyro, not manipulating. He clearly believes that Charles has brainwashed his students with his equality dogma. He wants students to think for themselves and make their own choices. Not only does he manipulate the people in the movie... You really think that if there was someone came along that was better qualified than Magneto to lead he would step aside and let them lead? Only if he had no one else and nowhere to go (DoFP). He wants to be in charge of his kingdom. He wants to be on top. Because when you are on top there is no one above you. He was manipulating Jean before that. When Xavier was trying to calm her down, Erik was right there filling her head up more and more until she boiled over. He could have let Xavier calm the Phoenix, but he wanted that powerful weapon on his side and not Xavier's. He had Callisto search for her just for that. Liberating? The kids at that school could leave when they want. Xavier isn't keeping them there against their will. Like Jean he wanted a powerful mutant on his side. One that would gladly cause destruction. When Pyro asks if he was the bad guy, notice he didn't answer him. "Is that what they say?" He knows he isn't the good guy. |
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Post by ThatGuy on Oct 21, 2017 4:56:57 GMT
So in a nutshell, the 45 presidents of the USA manipulated people to vote for them. Also, is not like Magneto is wrong. most of the things he said are right and many mutants stand by him. many mutants see it. Magneto been right debunks your manipulation nonsense. Harley quinn changed her beliefs even her own name to become a tool for the joker. Mystique like the comics and some of the cartoons is magneto henchman right? she agrees with his vision and they work fight together cause. she goes on mission for him , because he is the leader. did you ever read comics? Let me bring it closer to home, everything black widow does, going on mission of Shield is all manipulation too by your narrative. and there you go rushing to defend awful mcu movies. bucky is brainwashed just like harley is. And no they were not friends anymore because Bucky stopped thinking for himself thanks to brainwashing, meanwhile steve will bend over for bucky and will break all the rules in the book same way harley will bend over for joker. that is why they are similar In the movies Charles and Eric were still friends but once again their belief drove them apart. Gotta love you mcu fans, you are falling into your own trap here. this is what happens when you try to take on the xmen movies and spew your bs what it does it exposes the weakness of your mcu movies. I knew there was reason why DOFP was so much better than civil war and the winter solider, thanks for reminding me. Yes. They all manipulated people into voting for them. That's how it works. You're telling people why they should vote for you and not the other guy. Magneto is the cause of all his problems. He's like a girlfriend/wife that keeps yelling at and hitting her boyfriend/husband saying that he's abusive, then goes crying "I told you so!" when he finally does hit her back. He's a self-fulfilling prophecy. And? No matter what Erik does to Xavier, Xavier will still be his friend. And Erik will keep using him. Mystique is not or ever was Magneto's henchman. They were never associated with each other. Even in X-men Evolution (the only time they were associated with each other) he was forcing her to be in charge of the Brotherhood. In the comics, Mystique stole the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants name and made her own team. I ask you, have you ever read the comics. In the MCU, no it is not manipulation that Black Widow is working for SHIELD. SHIELD is actually her employer. Is it manipulation what you do at work? By the midpoint of Civil War they are friends again. He got his memories back. The only time he was brainwashed was during Winter Soldier and a scene in Civil War. After he was knocked out in the helicopter crash and had his arm in that machine he was the old Bucky. Yes, he helped his friend (who was brainwashed into killing him before). He wanted to get to the bottom of what happened before they killed him. That's what friends do. And back together and back apart and back together and back apart. Like I said before, that's getting tiresome them making them friends again just so they'll have the same tiresome debate. Then they have Magneto betray him... again. Take on the X-men movies? Movies? In my book there is only one X-men movie and that's First Class. All the others are crap. I think you and LukeLoves are the only ones that thing DoFP is better than those movies. I mean, if it was so good, Apocalypse would have made more. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2017 5:00:56 GMT
Yeah. It’s hard to harbour bad feelings against a telepath.
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Post by summers8 on Oct 21, 2017 5:11:11 GMT
He built that machine and used it on Senator Kelly knowing it could kill himself. Dont think thats cowardly. He needed to be alive to lead the mutant rebellion because of his genius level intellect, not as if Toad Sabertooth or Mistique are natural intelligent leaders. Hes shown to use mutants as sacrifices for the greater good throughout the films, including the pawns in X3 you mentioned. Hes taking a big risk just being there. The point is, hes not like Shaw who craves a world domination scenario or Apocalypses who wants to be worshipped. Hes essentially the mirror image of Stryker and will go to great lengths and make sacrifices through losing their family (Eriks parents/wife/child and Strykers son/wife) to achieve their aims which transcend any idea of a throne. I dont believe they fit descriptions of cowards, just revolutionaries doing whatever it takes at all costs for impersonal gains. And Magneto talks very childlike to Jean/Dark Phoenix which does seem very manipulative on the surface. But I think that is because he knows that the Phoenix force is controlling her which is very instinctual, childlike and non-human as adult mature Jean is trapped. In X2 he is liberating Pyro, not manipulating. He clearly believes that Charles has brainwashed his students with his equality dogma. He wants students to think for themselves and make their own choices. Not only does he manipulate the people in the movie... You really think that if there was someone came along that was better qualified than Magneto to lead he would step aside and let them lead? Only if he had no one else and nowhere to go (DoFP). He wants to be in charge of his kingdom. He wants to be on top. Because when you are on top there is no one above you. He was manipulating Jean before that. When Xavier was trying to calm her down, Erik was right there filling her head up more and more until she boiled over. He could have let Xavier calm the Phoenix, but he wanted that powerful weapon on his side and not Xavier's. He had Callisto search for her just for that. Liberating? The kids at that school could leave when they want. Xavier isn't keeping them there against their will. Like Jean he wanted a powerful mutant on his side. One that would gladly cause destruction. When Pyro asks if he was the bad guy, notice he didn't answer him. "Is that what they say?" He knows he isn't the good guy. the big question is if. If anyone is a better leader and can fight for the mutant cause just like magneto or better, magneto will step aside but there has been no one. magneto and xavier are the greatest leaders of the mutant liberation.period. Once again, you keep saying he was manipulating jean but did that succeed? ironically in X3, Jean accused wolverine that Xavier was manipulating him too. Did you watch the movie about the kids, in X1 Charles said most of the students are runaways and leave their home with no safe place. we saw what happened to bobby and rogue. I think that debunks your nonsense that they could leave when they ever wanted. where would they have gone? rewatch X2, in the film it was heavily implied Pyro had no home of his own when he stares deeply into the drake family portrait. it was not even all that subtle, any one who is not even into drama movies could have picked that up. Lastly your last comments gets more desperate since you are not saying what went on the movie, magento knows he is not the good guy? that is untrue because from magneto's POV, he is not the the bad guy, he said so himself. and since when do bad guys score more points of have ever been right over the good guys? This was magneto's response to pyro in X2. Pyro:
So, they say you're the bad guy.
Magneto:
Is that what they say?
Pyro:
That's a dorky-looking helmet. What's it for?
Magneto:
This "dorky-looking helmet" is the only thing that's going to protect me from the real bad guys. [grabs Pyro's lighter with his power] What's your name?Let's even bring in stan lee on the concept of magneto. Stan Lee reception of Magneto
"I do not think of Magneto as a bad guy. He just wanted to strike back at the people who were so bigoted and racist''..Think you can reply for once by been honest about the movie and stop trying to pass of your fanfic as the movie? |
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Post by ThatGuy on Oct 21, 2017 5:49:39 GMT
Singer ripped off the comics. He went to Cameron for time travel because of the similarities of the comics, he was not trying to rip it off. Do you know how many people in Hollywood seek advice from others who have done something similar to what they are about to do? once again, you try to twist this whole thing to support your bs. I think I already answered the question why it made more sense, in the movie they had already killed off Kelly. Secondly in the movie, which was a direct sequel to first class not a direct sequel to the comics, trask did kill her friends so it was justified in the content of the movie. I do remember correctly that in the movie, they captured her and learnt of her powers of adapting. you are seriously asking why it made more sense to kill a person that created machines to exterminate your kind and killed your friends?? could you be any more ridiculous? The entire movie was not a tribute to terminator, it was a tribute to the comics because that was what the comics was about. Stopping an assassination
Sending an X-Men back in time
Stopping a dystopia world
Time travel by consciousness of mind.
This was the comics, before the terminator.
I do remember they used bishop because in TAS there was no kitty pryde and in the cartoons, Bishop was also a time traveler from a different future in the comics. TAS was also loosely adapted like the movie . The movie indeed chose to use time travel so only wolverine could go because he was the heart of the movies, he was the most experienced and he was the strongest of what they had left from the adult characters of the old x-men trilogy. Wolverine going has nothing to do with a guy having metal in the bodies because wolverine was created first before the terminator. dont repeat this nonsense again.The resistance is both the X-Men and the brotherhood of evil mutants depending on who’s side you are one or your POV. In the comics kitty went to the xmen to get them together to stop the assassination, in the movies wolverine went to the xmen what was left of it after First Class( not after dark phoenix like in the comics) which was Xavier and beast to help him try and stop the assassination. In the comics, kitty told them it was mystique and her brotherhood of mutants they needed to stop at a political hearing. In the movies wolverine said it was mystique they needed to stop at a political hearing. Again, quite similar to the comics not terminator . Do remember also that this is a comic adaption so nothing was directly alike same, can be said for Civil War, Watchmen and the death of superman/dawn of justice. Uum, wait are you saying x-men is a rip off of harry potter? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Potter_influences_and_analoguesclearly not really. I take that to be sarcasm. You said that on IMDB out of spite. As for people saying you hate xmen because of the MCU, that used to be your behavior, I do recall you were called out again because you went on the Xforce board and trashed the movie. You will trash the xmen movies with bs reasons but defend the MCU movies that were clearly weaker and more superficial. It does have a lot to do with MCU because MCU fans hate marvel movies not made by the MCU and go to great lengths to discredit those movie like you are doing now with DOFP/Terminator 2. Let me guess, you think Homecoming is better than Spiderman 1 and 2 right? I don't buy you liking first class and Logan or legion. You seemed hurt by Legion's distinctive critical acclaim, it was too much you indeed. As I said unless you can show me Claremont himself time traveled, what you said is pure BS. trust me had DOFP been such an openly blatant rip off, the reception of the film would not have escaped that level of criticism or notice by others, see your avengers and gotg sequels that ripped of their first movies and the reaction those sequels got for ripping of their first movies. But as an MCU fan, I bet you will rush to start defending those movies. so do drop it. He also ripped-off Cameron's movie. Tell me: Was there a scene in the comics where they had to break someone out of some kind of prison? Anywhere in the DoFP comic? Can you kindly post the page or even a link for me? Hmm where did that come from? Oh yeah T2. What about the scene in the comics when the person from the future immediately gets into a fight with some thugs then steals the guy's vehicle? What page was that on? That came from T2, also. I can continue if you want. Yes, they already killed off Kelly. That's why I said the movie should have taken place during X1. Do you know what manufactured drama is? First Class to DoFP didn't flow organically. That's why they had it take place a decade later. So no it was not a direct sequel to First Class. That's like saying the new Blade Runner is a direct sequel to the 1st. She didn't know about the machines. And why didn't she kill Stryker? He was the one that brought her friends to Trask. They used the comics to justify it. But, the structure of the movie was T2. DoFP was a tribute. Send it to the Hunger Games. Yes, those things were in the comics. But whole scenes and plot points were taken from T2 (and even X2). Kitty Pryde was in the movie. And so was Bishop. So they could have sent them back in time, physically. But... he was the lead of the old trilogy. Not this one. Xavier and Erik are the leads of the new movies. Kitty was Xavier's student before Logan came to the mansion. She'd know him better. Him having a metal skeleton has everything to do with him going back. They kept adding on reasons for why it can only be him. All it took for Kitty to go back in the comics was her phasing powers. A telepath and a woman with phasing powers. Oh snap they had both of those things in the movie. Wonder why they didn't use them. No the resistance is the X-men. Cyclops, Jean, and Storm and Logan. You see, they sent back the terminator... I mean Logan to get him out of the place he was in. Xavier is the John Connor of the movie if you didn't notice. They both are even hackers. Weird that. Actually, in the comics they didn't know who it was. Mystique disguised herself as a random woman. Yes, it was an adaption of a comic. But Civil War didn't take from another movie did it? BvS didn't take from another movie. Watchmen only changed minor things, but was pretty close to the comics. Yes, sarcasm. Why do you think I'm trashing the movies? DoFP being a rip-off of T2 shouldn't be a reason why the movie isn't good. It is you who is seeing it as trashing the movie. No that's not why I didn't like the movie. Actually, I do defend the X-men movies and shows when there is a reason to defend them. So you are saying that people that didn't like the X-men movies before the MCU was even started hated them X-men movies because they weren't in the MCU? Way back in 2003? Half a decade before the MCU started? Is that what you are saying? My dislike for the Raimi Spider-man movies has to do with Raimi's style. Raimi's style fits with the Evil Dead movies, but not with Spider-man. You can tell that when he made money with the 1st movie the gave him a little rope. That's why Spider-man 2 has a lot a Evil Dead elements to it. Nah, I actually liked Logan, Deadpool and First Class. Me liking First Class is probably near the top of why I didn't like DoFP. Singer took everything that was accomplished in First Class and threw it all away in DoFP. It was like it was all for nothing. And, oh yeah, I also liked Legion. Watched the entire season and waiting for the next. I'm also watching Gifted. Have to watch the latest episode of that. But had to watch Lucifer (a DC series) 1st. You don't know me kid. Claremont didn't have to time travel. They only took some elements from his story to justify the rip-off of T2. They actually didn't rip-off their 1st movies. Which is kind of a stupid thing to say when they are a series and should be a little similar. If you said Avengers 2 ripped-off Kangaroo Jack then there would be something because that is a totally different movie. No, you drop it. I did say in the previous post that I don't care and you are the one constantly bringing it up. I'm just responding to you. If you said nothing after this about the comparisons to T2, guess what, I won't either. |
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Post by ThatGuy on Oct 21, 2017 6:03:45 GMT
Not only does he manipulate the people in the movie... You really think that if there was someone came along that was better qualified than Magneto to lead he would step aside and let them lead? Only if he had no one else and nowhere to go (DoFP). He wants to be in charge of his kingdom. He wants to be on top. Because when you are on top there is no one above you. He was manipulating Jean before that. When Xavier was trying to calm her down, Erik was right there filling her head up more and more until she boiled over. He could have let Xavier calm the Phoenix, but he wanted that powerful weapon on his side and not Xavier's. He had Callisto search for her just for that. Liberating? The kids at that school could leave when they want. Xavier isn't keeping them there against their will. Like Jean he wanted a powerful mutant on his side. One that would gladly cause destruction. When Pyro asks if he was the bad guy, notice he didn't answer him. "Is that what they say?" He knows he isn't the good guy. the big question is if. If anyone is a better leader and can fight for the mutant cause just like magneto or better, magneto will step aside but there has been no one. magneto and xavier are the greatest leaders of the mutant liberation.period. Once again, you keep saying he was manipulating jean but did that succeed? ironically in X3, Jean accused wolverine that Xavier was manipulating him too. Did you watch the movie about the kids, in X1 Charles said most of the students are runaways and leave their home with no safe place. we saw what happened to bobby and rogue. I think that debunks your nonsense that they could leave when they ever wanted. where would they have gone? rewatch X2, in the film it was heavily implied Pyro had no home of his own when he stares deeply into the drake family portrait. it was not even all that subtle, any one who is not even into drama movies could have picked that up. Lastly your last comments gets more desperate since you are not saying what went on the movie, magento knows he is not the good guy? that is untrue because from magneto's POV, he is not the the bad guy, he said so himself. and since when do bad guys score more points of have ever been right over the good guys? This was magneto's response to pyro in X2. Pyro:
So, they say you're the bad guy.
Magneto:
Is that what they say?
Pyro:
That's a dorky-looking helmet. What's it for?
Magneto:
This "dorky-looking helmet" is the only thing that's going to protect me from the real bad guys. [grabs Pyro's lighter with his power] What's your name?Let's even bring in stan lee on the concept of magneto. Stan Lee reception of Magneto
"I do not think of Magneto as a bad guy. He just wanted to strike back at the people who were so bigoted and racist''..Think you can reply for once by been honest about the movie and stop trying to pass of your fanfic as the movie? They didn't have to stay with Xavier. They could have gone anywhere. They could have gone to Canada like Rogue originally wanted. They didn't have to go home. He was making it sound like Xavier was manipulating them to stay with him. Magneto was manipulating them to join his army. Xavier says that they can stay there and learn to use their powers to integrate back into society or stay and become X-men. What real bad guys. Xavier? He's the only one with telepathy and that's the only reason for the helmet. Manipulation. Calling Xavier the bad guy. *tsk* *tsk* Did you know that Magneto was just a Dr. Doom knock-off when he 1st appeared? It wasn't until years later when he became the opposite side to Xavier. So, no, Stan Lee didn't think of him that way. Yes, the real bad guys. Then he goes and makes Xavier kill all humans. |
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Post by summers8 on Oct 21, 2017 6:30:46 GMT
So in a nutshell, the 45 presidents of the USA manipulated people to vote for them. Also, is not like Magneto is wrong. most of the things he said are right and many mutants stand by him. many mutants see it. Magneto been right debunks your manipulation nonsense. Harley quinn changed her beliefs even her own name to become a tool for the joker. Mystique like the comics and some of the cartoons is magneto henchman right? she agrees with his vision and they work fight together cause. she goes on mission for him , because he is the leader. did you ever read comics? Let me bring it closer to home, everything black widow does, going on mission of Shield is all manipulation too by your narrative. and there you go rushing to defend awful mcu movies. bucky is brainwashed just like harley is. And no they were not friends anymore because Bucky stopped thinking for himself thanks to brainwashing, meanwhile steve will bend over for bucky and will break all the rules in the book same way harley will bend over for joker. that is why they are similar In the movies Charles and Eric were still friends but once again their belief drove them apart. Gotta love you mcu fans, you are falling into your own trap here. this is what happens when you try to take on the xmen movies and spew your bs what it does it exposes the weakness of your mcu movies. I knew there was reason why DOFP was so much better than civil war and the winter solider, thanks for reminding me. Yes. They all manipulated people into voting for them. That's how it works. You're telling people why they should vote for you and not the other guy. Magneto is the cause of all his problems. He's like a girlfriend/wife that keeps yelling at and hitting her boyfriend/husband saying that he's abusive, then goes crying "I told you so!" when he finally does hit her back. He's a self-fulfilling prophecy. And? No matter what Erik does to Xavier, Xavier will still be his friend. And Erik will keep using him. Mystique is not or ever was Magneto's henchman. They were never associated with each other. Even in X-men Evolution (the only time they were associated with each other) he was forcing her to be in charge of the Brotherhood. In the comics, Mystique stole the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants name and made her own team. I ask you, have you ever read the comics. In the MCU, no it is not manipulation that Black Widow is working for SHIELD. SHIELD is actually her employer. Is it manipulation what you do at work? By the midpoint of Civil War they are friends again. He got his memories back. The only time he was brainwashed was during Winter Soldier and a scene in Civil War. After he was knocked out in the helicopter crash and had his arm in that machine he was the old Bucky. Yes, he helped his friend (who was brainwashed into killing him before). He wanted to get to the bottom of what happened before they killed him. That's what friends do. And back together and back apart and back together and back apart. Like I said before, that's getting tiresome them making them friends again just so they'll have the same tiresome debate. Then they have Magneto betray him... again. Take on the X-men movies? Movies? In my book there is only one X-men movie and that's First Class. All the others are crap. I think you and LukeLoves are the only ones that thing DoFP is better than those movies. I mean, if it was so good, Apocalypse would have made more. the problem with the term manipulation is manipulation is tied to severe plain evil malicious intent, Looks like every time you voted for someone you were easily manipulated. I am not easily manipulated but I can find common grounds and support people who share some of my views or beliefs. Magneto is the cause of this problem or is it just acting in defence and wanting people to stop been naive, If many humans were not as hateful there would be no cause for magneto to get all mad on them. And Who is magneto abusive too, people that want to harm him for no good reason People that killed his mother and his family Those who wants to destroy his race? And when did Eric use Charles? Definitely not in the movies since Charles is only the person magneto feels is smart enough to have a real talk with and be honest. Like he told Charles in the movies....stop getting in my way or in first class when he told charles flat out that he was going to kill shaw. Oh wow, I just fell of my chair when you said mystique was not ever magneto henchmen or had no ties to magneto. In xmen evolution she spends the first season pretending to be their principal while magneto usually visits her and they talk about their new recruits. At the end of that season she is upset that despite everything she did for him and their cause, magneto found her not good enough when she was defeated by storm and he basically fired her. Funny, that is the opposite of been forced to stay when your ass is getting fired.lol by your 'employer' You claim they are never associated with each other but Mystique once brought Magneto to the international court with the help of her "Brotherhood" known at the time as "freedom force" and after magneto left earlier in the comics she became the new leader of the brotherhood of mutants who lead the assassination attempt in DOFP and could get more extreme than Magneto. You are asking me if I ever read the comics, that is a big question considering on the original IMDB boards, you used to get meltdown when you pretending DOFP comics never existed. Oh, bingo. Lets get all defensive over the the poorly written MCU movies and throw out your own rules. SHIELD is her employer? true. In the movies that was also the same, magneto was also mystique’s employer and in a way her only family. Funny SHIELD and Magneto usually send black widow and mystique on special missions. And this is magneto we are talking about. SHIELD is a known organisation with public back up and supports. Mutants/X-Men are not SHIELD., most mutants live in fear and hide from humans . So while neither can be compared it still boils down one thing. Black widow and Mystique both have dedicated their lives to serves others for greater good with a lot of rewards that went to their personal livelihood. You should read your first paragraph when you said it was manipulation to vote for presidents, you know every president has an admin team right and presidents are usually in control of agencies like SHIELD because every president has something called executive orders and that means powers over every military related arm forces in their country, which is what SHIELD is. They all serve the presidents and most vote for them? So according to you not me, Black Widow is been manipulated. And that is the problem when you spew BS you become inconsistent with your opinions. So in Civil War they were friends again, like childhood sweet hearts, who are not in the same situation as Eric and Charles and dare not even dream to be, X-Men is not kids play. I think this is why the black panther movie is choosing to take lesson from Eric and Charles and not Steve and Bucky. As crappy as the xmen movies are, they are still the best of what the marvel name has to offer. I wonder what the Marvel name would be like if there was no movies like X-Men, First Class, DOFP and X2 to combat all the generic brain-dead MCU comedies. Marvel would be looked at like Transformers. I sadly don’t think it was me and just lukeloves, from what I can see here on this forum, MCU fans cant even take down wonder woman talk less of DOFP or X2. I think it was most people at least the grown ups and comic books fans who take comic book seriously and expect comic films to be more than summer popcorn junk that prefer those x-men movies to the MCU movies and of course MCU fans but they don’t really say what is the X-movies including you. I do think it also gets more interesting when MCU is taking influence on the x-men movies to try and project their next movie as all serious, adult and political.. www.digitalspy.com/movies/black-panther/news/a833914/black-panther-michael-b-jordan-x-men-plot-chadwick-boseman/Truly interesting, I am sure if they were truly like joker and harley, marvel would not be taking inspiration from that as a way to get all ''deep''. you don't have to belief us xmen fans but please believe your mcu gods that thinks black panther must be the new eric and charles of movies. Its was too bad that the second trailer of Black panther ended up crushing that hope though. so my answer to black panther is good luck trying to be a copy of the Magneto and Xavier relationship from the movies. And you are right apocalypse, that was just awful and thank god people said so. This is X-Men we are talking about not Avengers. we expect Avengers to be awful mindless cgi no story all fun and breezy, we don't expect that from xmen so when fox poisons us with apocalypse, like avengers age of ultron or gotg or the iron man sequels people cannot give that pass. |
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Post by summers8 on Oct 21, 2017 7:03:25 GMT
the big question is if. If anyone is a better leader and can fight for the mutant cause just lie magneto or better, magneto will step aside but there has been no one. magneto and xavier are the greatest leaders of the mutant liberation.period. Once again, you eep saying he was manipulating jean but did that succeed? ironically in X3, Jean accused wolverine that Xavier was manipulating him too. Did you watch the movie about the ids, in X1 Charles said most of the students are runaways and leave their home with no safe place. we saw what happened to bobby and rogue. I thin that debuns your nonsense that they could leave when they ever wanted. where would they have gone? rewatch X2, in the film it was heavily implied Pyro had no home of his own when he stares deeply into the drae family portrait. it was not even all that subtle, any one who is not even into drama movies could have piced that up. Lastly your last comments gets more desperate since you are not saying what went on the movie, magento nows he is not the good guy? that is untrue because from magneto's POV, he is not the the bad guy, he said so himself. and since when do bad guys score more points of have ever been right over the good guys? This was magneto's response to pyro in X2. Pyro:
So, they say you're the bad guy.
Magneto:
Is that what they say?
Pyro:
That's a dory-looing helmet. What's it for?
Magneto:
This "dory-looing helmet" is the only thing that's going to protect me from the real bad guys. [grabs Pyro's lighter with his power] What's your name?Let's even bring in stan lee on the concept of magneto. Stan Lee reception of Magneto
"I do not thin of Magneto as a bad guy. He just wanted to strie bac at the people who were so bigoted and racist''..Thin you can reply for once by been honest about the movie and stop trying to pass of your fanfic as the movie? They didn't have to stay with Xavier. They could have gone anywhere. They could have gone to Canada lie Rogue originally wanted. They didn't have to go home. He was maing it sound lie Xavier was manipulating them to stay with him. Magneto was manipulating them to join his army. Xavier says that they can stay there and learn to use their powers to integrate bac into society or stay and become X-men. What real bad guys. Xavier? He's the only one with telepathy and that's the only reason for the helmet. Manipulation. Calling Xavier the bad guy. *ts* *ts* Did you now that Magneto was just a Dr. Doom noc-off when he 1st appeared? It wasn't until years later when he became the opposite side to Xavier. So, no, Stan Lee didn't thin of him that way. Yes, the real bad guys. Then he goes and maes Xavier ill all humans. Let's assume its a school like it is. not all the students had to stay, If I remember correctly in X3, Storm said some kids were gone. You said rogue could have gone to canada and it reminded me of X-Men TAS when rogue runs away from her second home, she was heading to god knows where until Xavier called out to her and gave her a home. And why would rogue even go to Canada when she was always fated to meet the X-Men. Also why would they have to go somewhere else when xavier was offering them a new home to feel comfortable and accepted? come on now you are getting ridiculous again. I don't think that is how marvel wanted the concept of x-men to work. And you asked me If I read the comics.lol You can still call it manipulation if you choose but I will call it with magneto's and xavier own words and beliefs adding to people's understanding of the X-Men human/mutant problem...Hope for all mutants and giving them the chance to fight for a place on earth, you can do it the peaceful way like xavier's/X-men or the aggressive way like Magneto's/Brotherhood. the choice is yours. And I was ready and waiting for this. MCU fans next strategy, extends their xmen hate meltdown to the comics as well. Was magneto really a dr doom knock off....give me a second to try and confirm it. I just tried to confirm it, he was not but in terms of knock offs if you call it that, (I won't) it was darth vader who was the dr doom knock off originally until Lucas chose to make Darth Vader his own. What I have here is Stan lee and Claremont's words on the creation of Magneto. ''In a 2008 interview, Stan Lee said he "did not think of Magneto as a bad guy. He just wanted to strike back at the people who were so bigoted and racist... he was trying to defend the mutants, and because society was not treating them fairly he was going to teach society a lesson. He was a danger of course... but I never thought of him as a villain."[13] In the same interview, he also revealed that he originally planned for Magneto to be the brother of his nemesis Professor X.[13] Writer Chris Claremont confirmed that Malcolm X was an inspiration for Magneto's development, as Martin Luther King Jr was for Professor X'' Wow, that is a big difference from Dr Doom. Can I just add that Stan Lee created Dr Doom to be the ultimate villain, the ultimate evil without a sense of human understanding unlike magneto. while stan never created magneto to be the ultimate villain. so your knock accusation is BS as factually proven by stan lee and claremont. Remember DC fan saying you make shit up??? BOOYEAH. Sorry love, I don't see the knock off there, you might be having a reaction to the fact that MCU does not have any single good villain in movies and comics so you take out that anger out on magneto who to me is not even the best x-men villain but then we all know when it comes to villains. you don't fuck with xmen and spiderman's rogues gallery if you were into marvel or the batman's rogues gallery if you were into DC. And yeah, making Xavier ill so Xavier would not get in his way. that was wrong but I think we have a name for that ..doing ''bad things for good reasons'', you could even escape prison for that kind of behaviour. |
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