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Post by The Herald Erjen on Feb 2, 2018 8:45:43 GMT
It's more of a falsehood than a concept, and many have already grasped it.
The Christian Devil? Now that's rich. Yeah.. "Christian Devil"... The Devil that runs around in the Christian faith... You know, as opposed to the Buddhist Devil... It's like if somebody watches Star Wars.. and decides that he will root for Darth Vader... Sure.. He might not believe in Luke Skywalker saving the day... but he fucking believes in Star Wars. No, it's not like that at all. A few years ago I first heard of the myth going around that Satan is entirely a Christian concept and doesn't predate Christianity, but it's more than just a myth. It's a damn dirty lie.  |
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Post by goz on Feb 2, 2018 9:08:44 GMT
Yeah.. "Christian Devil"... The Devil that runs around in the Christian faith... You know, as opposed to the Buddhist Devil... It's like if somebody watches Star Wars.. and decides that he will root for Darth Vader... Sure.. He might not believe in Luke Skywalker saving the day... but he fucking believes in Star Wars. No, it's not like that at all. A few years ago I first heard of the myth going around that Satan is entirely a Christian concept and doesn't predate Christianity, but it's more than just a myth. It's a damn dirty lie. Are you trying to deny the role of Satan in the Bible and his role in Christianity, Erjenious? |
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Post by theoncomingstorm on Feb 2, 2018 9:09:29 GMT
Can't you see that because the 'cast of characters' is the same that Theistic Satanism is rooted in the same core source? ie Christianity and the Bible? Would it help if we said 'Theistic Satanism' is Christianity gone wrong? and is evil? Just because it exists doesn't reflect on your own religion, Clusium. Yes, its proponents reject Jesus and worship/whatever Satan, so it is fair enough to acknowledge that it is a demonic twisted branch of the Christian idea if not their ideals. It is kind of reverse, as was said in the Wiki article I posted on your behalf. No, it is still not Christianity, Goz. The way to describe it would Anti-Christianity, not "Christianity gone wrong." People, seriously, she's an imbecile so stop wasting your time. You'd have better luck arguing with Cody and he's probably confused by the two extra buttons at the bottom of some of his shirts. |
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Post by goz on Feb 2, 2018 9:37:53 GMT
No, it is still not Christianity, Goz. The way to describe it would Anti-Christianity, not "Christianity gone wrong." People, seriously, she's an imbecile so stop wasting your time. You'd have better luck arguing with Cody and he's probably confused by the two extra buttons at the bottom of some of his shirts. I disagree. Clusium finds it an affront to her deep faith and religion. I respect that even if I don't agree with it. |
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Post by theoncomingstorm on Feb 2, 2018 10:08:31 GMT
People, seriously, she's an imbecile so stop wasting your time. You'd have better luck arguing with Cody and he's probably confused by the two extra buttons at the bottom of some of his shirts. I disagree. Clusium finds it an affront to her deep faith and religion. I respect that even if I don't agree with it. You're talking about someone who has a long history of this kind of ridiculously stupid argument and has never once shown any ability to understand anything. |
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Post by captainbryce on Feb 2, 2018 12:44:26 GMT
No, IT ISN’T! I can’t tell if you are being intentionally dense here, or if you are genuinely unable to comprehend basic logic. To be a Satanist (theistic) is to reject Christ as one’s personal SAVIOR, but to believe in God and accept Christ as his only begotten Son based on biblical teachings! That means they are practicing the religion of Christianity in some aspect, and are therefore “Christian” on that basis. They may not be the kinds of Christians you are, and they certainly don’t follow traditional Christian theology as a follower of Christ. But they do believe in the theology and engage in practices based on it. Having said that, most Satanists are not of the theistic variety. In fact this sect is so rare that I’ve never actually heard on one in real life (although I’m sure they must exist somewhere). Theistic Satanism is just as illogical (actually more so) than traditional Christianity. The more known version of Satanism are the atheistic Satanists who do not believe in the bible or Satan. No. Just no. To be a satanist means to reject Christ, plain & simple. No, it’s not actually “plain and simple”. YOU are a plain and simple person, which is why you are having a comprehension fail about this. The subject of Satanism is actually more complicated than you are willing to acknowledge. That statement is not relevant here. In the traditional sense of Christian worship practices, no. That point has already been conceded to. However it IS based on Christianity just as Mormonism is based on Christianity. It is dependent on the belief that God (and oftentimes Jesus Christ), and Satan exist based on the teachings of the bible. What part about that do you not understand? |
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Post by Vegas on Feb 2, 2018 13:45:41 GMT
In the traditional sense of Christian worship practices, no. That point has already been conceded to. However it IS based on Christianity just as Mormonism is based on Christianity. It is dependent on the belief that God (and oftentimes Jesus Christ), and Satan exist based on the teachings of the bible. What part about that do you not understand?The part in English, apparently.  |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Feb 2, 2018 13:50:16 GMT
I'm good with anyone cleaning a highway.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 16:21:48 GMT
No, it is not part of Christianity. To be a satanist is to complete REJECT Christ. No, IT ISN’T! I can’t tell if you are being intentionally dense here, or if you are genuinely unable to comprehend basic logic. To be a Satanist (theistic) is to reject Christ as one’s personal SAVIOR, but to believe in God and accept Christ as his only begotten Son based on biblical teachings! That means they are practicing the religion of Christianity in some aspect, and are therefore “Christian” on that basis. They may not be the kinds of Christians you are, and they certainly don’t follow traditional Christian theology as a follower of Christ. But they do believe in the theology and engage in practices based on it. Having said that, most Satanists are not of the theistic variety. In fact this sect is so rare that I’ve never actually heard on one in real life (although I’m sure they must exist somewhere). Theistic Satanism is just as illogical (actually more so) than traditional Christianity. The more known version of Satanism are the atheistic Satanists who do not believe in the bible or Satan. If this were true (theist Satanists accept that Jesus was the Christ), it presents an awful paradox considering the being(s) of their worship will not admit that Jesus was the Christ. |
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Post by captainbryce on Feb 2, 2018 16:36:59 GMT
No, IT ISN’T! I can’t tell if you are being intentionally dense here, or if you are genuinely unable to comprehend basic logic. To be a Satanist (theistic) is to reject Christ as one’s personal SAVIOR, but to believe in God and accept Christ as his only begotten Son based on biblical teachings! That means they are practicing the religion of Christianity in some aspect, and are therefore “Christian” on that basis. They may not be the kinds of Christians you are, and they certainly don’t follow traditional Christian theology as a follower of Christ. But they do believe in the theology and engage in practices based on it. Having said that, most Satanists are not of the theistic variety. In fact this sect is so rare that I’ve never actually heard on one in real life (although I’m sure they must exist somewhere). Theistic Satanism is just as illogical (actually more so) than traditional Christianity. The more known version of Satanism are the atheistic Satanists who do not believe in the bible or Satan. If this were true (theist Satanists accept that Jesus was the Christ), it presents an awful paradox considering the being(s) of their worship will not admit that Jesus was the Christ. What makes you think they don’t? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 16:48:04 GMT
If this were true (theist Satanists accept that Jesus was the Christ), it presents an awful paradox considering the being(s) of their worship will not admit that Jesus was the Christ. What makes you think they don’t? "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God" |
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Feb 2, 2018 16:57:38 GMT
No, it's not like that at all. A few years ago I first heard of the myth going around that Satan is entirely a Christian concept and doesn't predate Christianity, but it's more than just a myth. It's a damn dirty lie. Are you trying to deny the role of Satan in the Bible and his role in Christianity, Erjenious? Where did you get a dumb idea like that? |
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Post by Vegas on Feb 2, 2018 17:17:22 GMT
What makes you think they don’t? "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God" It's not really the spirit saying that... It's what the spirit is causing a false prophet to say. I mean seriously.. Do you think that they are claiming that there were actual angels and demons (or that Satan himself) running around preaching to people? To what degree is "confessing" equated to "knowing as fact"... Plenty of people who know that they are guilty of a crime don't confess that they are guilty... and will openly deny their guilt. Spirits that don't publicly confess the arrival of Jesus can still be aware of his actual arrival... They could just be lying in the public's eye via these false prophets. This isn't a proof that Satan denies who Jesus is.... Just a proof that he can/will cause others to lie about it. According to the story. |
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Feb 2, 2018 17:37:43 GMT
Six of one, half-dozen of the other. The result is the same.
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Post by cupcakes on Feb 2, 2018 17:43:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 17:50:45 GMT
"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God" It's not really the spirit saying that... It's what the spirit is causing a false prophet to say. I mean seriously.. Do you think that they are claiming that there were actual angels and demons (or that Satan himself) running around preaching to people? To what degree is "confessing" equated to "knowing as fact"... Plenty of people who know that they are guilty of a crime don't confess that they are guilty... and will openly deny their guilt. Spirits that don't publicly confess the arrival of Jesus can still be aware of his actual arrival... They could just be lying in the public's eye via these false prophets. This isn't a proof that Satan denies who Jesus is.... Just a proof that he can/will cause others to lie about it. According to the story. Let's hypothesize that I agree with your statements. (I don't...I know full well that evil spirits will not admit that Jesus was the Christ, but let's just skip over that.) You have just said that Satan can/will cause others to lie about it. We are discussing this within the context of worshippers who follow the Satan of the Bible. So, paradox still stands. Even in your hypothetical. |
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Post by Vegas on Feb 2, 2018 18:13:41 GMT
Let's hypothesize that I agree with your statements. (I don't...I know full well that evil spirits will not admit that Jesus was the Christ, but let's just skip over that.) You have just said that Satan can/will cause others to lie about it. We are discussing this within the context of worshippers who follow the Satan of the Bible. So, paradox still stands. Even in your hypothetical. Wait... Do you seriously think that The Devil wouldn't know who/what Jesus was/is? Even then... It doesn't stop Satan from being a character in The Bible..... The Bible says that Jesus is the Christ. Atheists know who Jesus is supposed to be.. and they don't follow the book. Satanists just don't see Jesus as their savior... or their anointed messiah... you know, what "Christ" actually means. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 18:21:01 GMT
Let's hypothesize that I agree with your statements. (I don't...I know full well that evil spirits will not admit that Jesus was the Christ, but let's just skip over that.) You have just said that Satan can/will cause others to lie about it. We are discussing this within the context of worshippers who follow the Satan of the Bible. So, paradox still stands. Even in your hypothetical. Wait... Do you seriously think that The Devil wouldn't know who/what Jesus was/is? No, I don't think that. But there is a definitive difference between "knowing" and "admitting." Thus, why Satan uses a hypothetical here instead of a declarative: If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple, And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God...." Correct and that same Bible declares that evil spirits will not admit that Jesus is the Christ, per my previous post. Irrelevant when considering theistic Satanists. Agree, but this is not what was up for debate. What is up for debate is the paradox in the combined statements that theistic Satanists admit that Jesus was the Christ, but the "god" they worship does not. |
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Post by captainbryce on Feb 2, 2018 18:31:15 GMT
What makes you think they don’t? "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God" Okay, so circular reasoning then. You believe that theistic Satanists do not accept Jesus as the savior NOT because they have actually said this, but because you’ve interpreted a biblical passage to be a reference to theistic Satanism. Bit of a stretch, but everyone is entitled to an opinion. But I don’t think this opinion (based on this interpretation) is telling upon reality. The fact is you don’t know whether theistic Satanists believe in Jesus or not, you just “believe” they don’t because the bible told you so. Yet another example of why religion is an obstacle of logic and reasoning. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 18:36:14 GMT
"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God" Okay, so circular reasoning then. You believe that theistic Satanists do not accept Jesus as the savior not because they have actually said this, but because you’ve interpret a biblical passage to be a reference to theistic Satanism. Bit of a stretch, but everyone is entitled to an opinion. But I don’t think this opinion (based on this interpretation) is telling upon reality. The fact is you don’t know whether theistic Satanists believe in Jesus or not, you just “believe” they don’t because the bible told you so. Yet another example of why religion is an obstacle of logic and reasoning. <sigh> No, that is not what I said. What I said: A. The claim has been made that theistic Satanists use the Bible as their guide, except they worship Satan instead of God. B. The claim has been made that theistic Satanists accept that Jesus was the Christ. B. Per the Bible, evil spirits will not admit this and will convince their followers that it is not true. D. This presents a paradox. So for the record, I didn't say jack about what theistic Satanists believe or don't believe. The claims I reference in point A and B above were NOT MY CLAIMS. I am simply pointing out the paradox of the claim I DID NOT MAKE as it relates to the actual scripture that SOMEONE ELSE has claimed these theistic Satanists follow. |
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