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Post by Vegas on Feb 2, 2018 20:33:49 GMT
What an odd little discussion. Slow day at the office.
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Post by clusium on Feb 2, 2018 20:34:36 GMT
Zoroastrianism, Islam, Buddhism, & several other religions also believe that there are great evil in the Great Beyond, whom we should completely reject too. Not only do Satanists hate & mock Christianity, but, to a lesser extent, mock these other religions as well. And some Christians also do, as well.... But, in doing so, nobody is claiming to be a worshipper of whatever the form of evil is in Buddhism. If somebody claimed to be an Angra Mainyu-ist, you would assume that they are familiar enough with Zoroastrianism to understand who Angra Mainyu is and believe in Zoroastrianism enough to believe that he's actually real. People who worship Angra Mainu are the very same people who Satan, Lucifer, Beelzebub, etc.
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Post by clusium on Feb 2, 2018 20:37:53 GMT
No, I am not having a comprehension fail. Satanism is not Christianity. It is anti-christianity. To be Christian means to be a disciple of Christ, which satanists-both atheist & theist alike-are not. I understand how you are parsing the word Christian to suit your agenda. It’s called equivocation! But it doesn’t work merely because you are choosing to recognize only your preferred definition of Christianity in this discussion. So I’m just going to make this simple for you. Do you acknowledge that theistic Satanism is based on the beliefs espoused in the Christian bible regarding the existence of God, Jesus, and Satan - yes or no? They are BOTH based on a Christianity, and consequently there is no difference with respect to this discussion. I'm not making any agenda. I am stating the truth. Satanism is its own religion. It is not Christianity. Satanism (& I am talking about the religious kind)is a religion that worships the Devil as opposed to God. Yes, its based on the beliefs concerning him as espoused in the Holy Bible. However, it is also based on beliefs concerning him from the Zoroastrian scriptures, as well as all other religious scriptures. Satanism is all about worshipping the evil spirits, rather that the Good God!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 20:41:04 GMT
That's a false comparison, though. An accurate comparison would be to say that a Capitalist has a complete understanding of what Socialism is, but denies he has a complete understanding of what Socialism is. If they admit that Jesus is the Christ, they espouse something different than what their god espouses. What does lead paint taste like? Like sarcasm?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 20:45:23 GMT
D. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Who said Satan knew that Jesus was the Christ when Jesus was alive on earth? I know he knows now, but who said he knew then? Satan has absolutely zilch power when it comes to omniscience or omnipresence. He only knows what his senses allow him to experience in real time. Where in the text is it revealed that Satan was pre-warned that Jesus was in fact the Christ? Now, I can certainly see scriptural evidence of how he could have figured it out, but no where in the Bible does it state that Satan was ensured of Jesus being the Christ before Christ died. I'll skip all of the moronic circular arguments to make fun of this point.. YOU JUST CITED THE STORY WHERE SATAN SHOWS UP AND TEMPTS JESUS IN THE DESERT. He kinda knew who Jesus was.. or..... Is that a common occurrence in your neck of the woods? Satan just shows up to everybody who gets baptized? Have you had a lengthy discussion with Satan? You can ad hominem until the cows come home, but we've already covered the fact that Satan never addressed Jesus as the Christ in the Temptation. He uses the hypothetical. Furthermore, you assert this as if Satan didn't show up and tempt people in the Bible who were not Christ.
Are you suggesting that Satan hasn't continued to tempt other people throughout the world (as the scriptures say he does!)?!?!? Like, he's only got one shot at tempting someone and so he'd better choose the Christ? LOL.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Feb 2, 2018 20:55:27 GMT
What an odd little discussion. Slow day at the office. I was think a lot of people really cared about this highway.
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Post by cupcakes on Feb 2, 2018 21:05:35 GMT
tpfkar What an odd little discussion. I don't think "Satanism is Christianity", if anybody is saying that, works in unqualified conversation. Even "Satanism is a form of Christianity", leaving out "subverted" or the like, is guaranteed to get protest. But the original "a variation of Judeo/Christian religion" seems straightforward enough. don't think she's good with Satanists
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Post by goz on Feb 2, 2018 21:33:23 GMT
Are you trying to deny the role of Satan in the Bible and his role in Christianity, Erjenious? Where did you get a dumb idea like that? From your post that I replied to. DUH!
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Post by Vegas on Feb 3, 2018 14:58:07 GMT
Furthermore, y ou assert this as if Satan didn't show up and tempt people in the Bible who were not Christ.Well..... Yeah. Who else got a personal visit from Satan? Eve... I guess... Wait... So Satan did appear to you? Wow! What does he look like? What cologne does he wear? Pitchfork or no pitchfork? British accent?... I hear he has a British accent. Did he ask you questions like you were the son of God?
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Post by gadreel on Feb 4, 2018 20:06:47 GMT
tpfkar What an odd little discussion. I don't think "Satanism is Christianity", if anybody is saying that, works in unqualified conversation. Even "Satanism is a form of Christianity", leaving out "subverted" or the like, is guaranteed to get protest. But the original "a variation of Judeo/Christian religion" seems straightforward enough. don't think she's good with SatanistsI say Satanism is Christianity because it gets response, but the fact remains that theistic satanism gets it's belief set from the same holy book, and is required to believe the same things as Christianity with the caveat that they have chosen (for some reason ) to follow Satan, not Christ. They are the same religion.
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Post by cupcakes on Feb 4, 2018 20:27:31 GMT
tpfkar I don't think "Satanism is Christianity", if anybody is saying that, works in unqualified conversation. Even "Satanism is a form of Christianity", leaving out "subverted" or the like, is guaranteed to get protest. But the original "a variation of Judeo/Christian religion" seems straightforward enough. don't think she's good with SatanistsI say Satanism is Christianity because it gets response, but the fact remains that theistic satanism gets it's belief set from the same holy book, and is required to believe the same things as Christianity with the caveat that they have chosen (for some reason ) to follow Satan, not Christ. They are the same religion. Yeah, I see "the same religion" as a bit much. Same texts, radically different conclusions. Concerning Language
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Post by gadreel on Feb 4, 2018 20:32:08 GMT
tpfkar I say Satanism is Christianity because it gets response, but the fact remains that theistic satanism gets it's belief set from the same holy book, and is required to believe the same things as Christianity with the caveat that they have chosen (for some reason ) to follow Satan, not Christ. They are the same religion. Yeah, I see "the same religion" as a bit much. Same texts, radically different conclusions. Concerning LanguageNot that radically different. I have known a lot of Theistic Satanists, they hold much of the same things as Christians, the life story of Christ, the garden of eden etc, they just chose to worship Satan. I get that the choice of worship is radically different, but they hold many of the same beliefs as Christians theologically speaking.
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Post by cupcakes on Feb 4, 2018 20:37:25 GMT
tpfkar Yeah, I see "the same religion" as a bit much. Same texts, radically different conclusions. Concerning LanguageNot that radically different. I have known a lot of Theistic Satanists, they hold much of the same things as Christians, the life story of Christ, the garden of eden etc, they just chose to worship Satan. I get that the choice of worship is radically different, but they hold many of the same beliefs as Christians theologically speaking. I think that's fundamental enough to consider it Satanism or Satianity and not Christianity. Sexual Intercourse
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Post by gadreel on Feb 4, 2018 20:54:18 GMT
tpfkar Not that radically different. I have known a lot of Theistic Satanists, they hold much of the same things as Christians, the life story of Christ, the garden of eden etc, they just chose to worship Satan. I get that the choice of worship is radically different, but they hold many of the same beliefs as Christians theologically speaking. I think that's fundamental enough to consider it Satanism or Satianity and not Christianity. Sexual IntercourseI think it is a minor point really, they believe all the same things, they just chose to worship another entity in the pantheon. Like if I worship Loki as opposed to Thor, I still follow the norse religion.
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Post by cupcakes on Feb 4, 2018 21:01:19 GMT
tpfkar I think that's fundamental enough to consider it Satanism or Satianity and not Christianity. Sexual IntercourseI think it is a minor point really, they believe all the same things, they just chose to worship another entity in the pantheon. Like if I worship Loki as opposed to Thor, I still follow the norse religion. I think saying Satanism is Christianity or even "the same religion as Christianity" is counterproductive at the very best. Based on the same texts and inverted or subverted, sure. I don't think anybody could reasonably say "Islam is Christianity" or "Islam is the same religion as Christianity". Light Metal Song
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Post by gadreel on Feb 4, 2018 21:05:33 GMT
tpfkar I think it is a minor point really, they believe all the same things, they just chose to worship another entity in the pantheon. Like if I worship Loki as opposed to Thor, I still follow the norse religion. I think saying Satanism is Christianity or even "the same religion as Christianity" is counterproductive at the very best. Based on the same texts and inverted or subverted, sure. I don't think anybody could reasonably say "Islam is Christianity" or "Islam is the same religion as Christianity". Light Metal SongYeah but the difference with Islam is that it holds completely different beliefs about the main characters, Jesus is not God for example, but most theistic satanists (in my experience) hold the same beliefs as Christians about the entities in the bible.
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Post by cupcakes on Feb 4, 2018 21:16:33 GMT
tpfkar I think saying Satanism is Christianity or even "the same religion as Christianity" is counterproductive at the very best. Based on the same texts and inverted or subverted, sure. I don't think anybody could reasonably say "Islam is Christianity" or "Islam is the same religion as Christianity". Light Metal SongYeah but the difference with Islam is that it holds completely different beliefs about the main characters, Jesus is not God for example, but most theistic satanists (in my experience) hold the same beliefs as Christians about the entities in the bible. Jesus is not God for wide streaks of Christianity, either. And radically different (as in antithetical) valuations of good and bad just aren't the "same beliefs". the word gay
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Post by gadreel on Feb 4, 2018 21:48:55 GMT
tpfkar Yeah but the difference with Islam is that it holds completely different beliefs about the main characters, Jesus is not God for example, but most theistic satanists (in my experience) hold the same beliefs as Christians about the entities in the bible. Jesus is not God for wide streaks of Christianity, either. And radically different (as in antithetical) valuations of good and bad just aren't the "same beliefs". the word gayGood and bad is interesting a lot of the Theistic Satanists revel in being evil, so actually they hold the same moral compass as Christians. Jesus not being God™ was one example, Islam also holds mohhmed to be a prophet etc etc, I think it is fair to day it is well removed from Christianity theologically. Of course you bring up an interesting point: And yet we call them Christians, in fact the umbrella of Christianity is so big we often see people trying to exclude Christian sects for various reasons, in light of that, I would say that Satanism has a lot more to do with mainstream Christianity (as if there was such a thing) than other sects (mormonism for example) we call Christian, it seems odd to draw the line at Satanists.
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Post by cupcakes on Feb 4, 2018 21:55:58 GMT
tpfkar Jesus is not God for wide streaks of Christianity, either. And radically different (as in antithetical) valuations of good and bad just aren't the "same beliefs". the word gayGood and bad is interesting a lot of the Theistic Satanists revel in being evil, so actually they hold the same moral compass as Christians. Jesus not being God™ was one example, Islam also holds mohhmed to be a prophet etc etc, I think it is fair to day it is well removed from Christianity theologically. I don't think "inverted" is the same. I don't think you can get any more anti-Christian than "Satan is good, Christ/God is bad". And Islam is not not considered Christianity for your stated example of "Jesus is not God", and in fact encompasses tenets that are far more consonant with Christianity than does theistic Satanism. A bit of Fry & Laurie - Judge Not
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Post by gadreel on Feb 4, 2018 22:04:26 GMT
tpfkar Good and bad is interesting a lot of the Theistic Satanists revel in being evil, so actually they hold the same moral compass as Christians. Jesus not being God™ was one example, Islam also holds mohhmed to be a prophet etc etc, I think it is fair to day it is well removed from Christianity theologically. I don't think "inverted" is the same. I don't think you can get any more anti-Christian than "Satan is good, Christ/God is bad". And Islam is not not considered Christianity for your stated example of "Jesus is not God", and in fact encompasses tenets that are far more consonant with Christianity than does theistic Satanism. A bit of Fry & Laurie - Judge NotBut it is not inverted, they understand that they are on the evil side, and revel in it. Interestingly I would disagree, Islam is radically different from Christianity, but Satanism follows all the same tenets. they just chose to worship a different being in the pantheon.
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