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Post by goz on Mar 14, 2018 21:43:37 GMT
The word “rarely” implies that you have in fact discussed them in the past. So this wouldn’t be a “start” to anything. Just an observation! Also, you haven’t established that he has “added” any beliefs of your denomination at all since you are unwilling to state your denomination, and haven’t denied any aspects about it that he stated. So what are you saying he added that is incorrect? Whether I discuss or don't discuss any or all of my beliefs at any point in time has no correlation to assuming what those beliefs are. Everyone here knows approximately two things about my beliefs, hence the rarely discussed part - 1. I believe in God 2. I am a Christian One can ignore all the vagueness that could entail considering a couple billion people identify the exact same way, but any other assumption impugned from those two criteria is the accuser's burden to back up rather than mine to respond to and defend. Of course, it is perfectly board legal to call me a fundy based on a made up list and a made up denomination. What can I do about it? Nothing. However, it is perfectly my right to call someone a liar for creating a list based on a made up denomination. It is NOT a lie. It is an opinion. IMHO it is shared by several others. Also IMHO all that stuff you write about heretics, unbelievers and unsaved and Armageddon and the children of bad parents all being wiped out 'might' have something to do with that opinion.
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Post by goz on Mar 14, 2018 21:55:23 GMT
So what is your denomination? I belong to a non-denominational church, hand picked by me. Otherwise, I don't spend a lit of time discuss what my church believes because my views are broader than that as it would be with any religious person. It is far more interesting to discuss the Bible with atheists, the majority of people here, as if it is fiction since that is the common ground & the words don't change. To inject my actual beliefs would be to imply my religion shares all of my views which would not be the case or even possible. Like most people, my views are based on what I learn, what I feel, what I read, & my personal thoughts on any particular matter. To involve a particular congregation just results in something similar to someone constantly stating something is omniscient or not believing in the trinity is heretical or all dogs go to heaven.Of course they do! DUH!!!!
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Post by thefleetsin on Mar 14, 2018 22:09:29 GMT
would i still have to five back the cookie i got for being a good boy?
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 14, 2018 22:19:31 GMT
Whether I discuss or don't discuss any or all of my beliefs at any point in time has no correlation to assuming what those beliefs are. Everyone here knows approximately two things about my beliefs, hence the rarely discussed part - 1. I believe in God 2. I am a Christian One can ignore all the vagueness that could entail considering a couple billion people identify the exact same way, but any other assumption impugned from those two criteria is the accuser's burden to back up rather than mine to respond to and defend. Of course, it is perfectly board legal to call me a fundy based on a made up list and a made up denomination. What can I do about it? Nothing. However, it is perfectly my right to call someone a liar for creating a list based on a made up denomination. It is NOT a lie. It is an opinion. IMHO it is shared by several others. Also IMHO all that stuff you write about heretics, unbelievers and unsaved and Armageddon and the children of bad parents all being wiped out 'might' have something to do with that opinion. It's a lie. It can't be an opinion when it involves a fact or a falsehood. It could have been a misunderstanding, but isapop stuck to his guns. It's not that big of a deal for people to lie when they have no moral standard to tell them lying is wrong so it's all good. You do the same thing, but I think it has more to do with mental capacity with you which is why I haven't called you a liar yet.
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Post by captainbryce on Mar 14, 2018 22:54:51 GMT
captainbryce I have not discussed the beliefs listed, thus no connection. If you’d like to declare this NOW, that is fine. But it’s not what you previously stated. Oh but they were! You gave the SPECIFIC number of TWO. Preceded by the word “approximately”, which makes no sense. It was either two, or it was more than two. There is no such thing as “appropriately two” unless you want to get into fractions and decimals! You tell me! You comment on “God” and it’s presumed existence all the time. Yet the notion that a god exists is not known. And yet here you are keeping the dialogue going by trying to defend the indefensible instead of demonstrating humility as usual. It takes two to tango bud! Nobody is forcing you to defend your position (or even expecting you to). I was simply refuting your claim that there is NOTHING you could do. The fact of the matter is, there are things you could do to make a more convincing case than you have. That you choose not do does not imply that you are powerless to do so (which was your claim). No, actually they should try to win debates based on them having a reasonable argument, supported by facts, that the opposition is unable to (or unwilling to) provide a reasonable fact based counter-argument to. Beliefs are irrelevant because they are impossible to prove, and simultaneously require no proof for validation. There is no debate regarding what someone else believes. I believe you are a fundamentalist, as you claim not to be. That’s not a debate unless you make some attempt to demonstrate to me that my belief is incorrect. If you choose not to do that, that’s not a “debate”, it’s simply a difference of belief. Nobody made up anything about you. The only thing people have done here was state their beliefs. You are at liberty to disagree. But that doesn’t make everyone else a liar. If we knew that you did NOT have fundamentalist beliefs and still declared you a fundamentalist, THAT would be lying. But since we don’t know whether you are or not, and you’ve given people a reason to believe that you are, then we are just stating a belief that you deny. Okay, but why does this matter in the grand scheme of things? I’m not concerned with whether or not Isapop derrived anything from you, or why someone else believes you are a fundamentalist. Those are red herrings that are tangential to the central question. Are you a fundamentalist Christian? Honesty encompasses more than just a lack of demonstrable lies. The fact that you intentionally misrepresent other people’s arguments when convenient makes you dishonest. The fact that you employ distraction techniques when up against a wall (like introducing red-herrings and moving the goalposts) makes you dishonest. The fact that you vehemently object to being classified a certain way based on someone else’s perception, but then refuse to answer what your beliefs actually are with respect to the discussion makes you dishonest. You call other people liars when they state an opinion that you disagree with. Yet when challenged to invalidate their opinion, you cry burden of proof. THAT makes you dishonest! So you claim! But since you choose not to back up your claims, we have no reason at all to believe you, and every reason to believe the opposite. That’s how that works! Rest assures, I have no fear of being “called out” on something by you when you choose not to invalidate my assumption with any reasoned argument. You calling me out doesn’t change my belief. Being honest about what you do/do not believe MIGHT. You’re right, it won’t (for aforementioned reasons)! So thank you.
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Post by goz on Mar 14, 2018 23:03:47 GMT
It is NOT a lie. It is an opinion. IMHO it is shared by several others. Also IMHO all that stuff you write about heretics, unbelievers and unsaved and Armageddon and the children of bad parents all being wiped out 'might' have something to do with that opinion. It's a lie. It can't be an opinion when it involves a fact or a falsehood. It could have been a misunderstanding, but isapop stuck to his guns. It's not that big of a deal for people to lie when they have no moral standard to tell them lying is wrong so it's all good. You do the same thing, but I think it has more to do with mental capacity with you which is why I haven't called you a liar yet. Yes, having the mental capacity to understand that an ancient book, written, translated, interpreted and re-interpreted over 2 millennia, and based on unreliable sources to begin with, is relatively simple for a ditz like me, NOT to base my whole existence around, particularly when the modern sciences have more factual and reasonable explanations for the way the life and the universe works.! Some of us have moved on from ancient fear mongering and the power of churches as institutions which control the 'flock'. Fundies such as you and Cody...NOT so much.
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Post by them1ghtyhumph on Mar 14, 2018 23:30:56 GMT
Do you mean things, like.... Aliens were our creators, most of everything written in the Bible did happen, most conspiracy theories were real, & Ghosts, Bigfoot and the Lochness Monster were real?... Or our reality was just part of The Matrix?... Well... We would still have our families, pets, favorite foods, jobs, taxes... & music, movies, TV Shows, & Websites like IMDB 2.0...Right? I guess not much would change in our daily lives, so... I would just re-evaluate what all that means to the world, and what that means for the future, and move on accordingly. I mean anything you believe You just go with it
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 14, 2018 23:45:51 GMT
captainbryceThis is incorrect. I said approximately because those two areas could be misconstrued into more than the two. If I had said exactly two, you would find a sentence that you could swear meant 3 or 4. You do it all the time. So you translated approximately two, which is perfectly acceptable as a on concrete number, into something that had to be specific since you are a semantics Nazi even where there is no reason to be.It doesn't do that because there would be no change in thought despite the effort I put into it. It's making me do the work for someone too lazy to to do the work. with no additional benefit to me beyond entertainment value. This is funny since you don't do this. However, if the argument is not reasonable in the first place, then why bother having it with me? If the argument is reasonable, then bring what you got or get schooled which is what usually happens.When? When? Actually, I've never been up against a wall. Maybe you can tell me what that feels like...I'm not vehemently rejecting to anything simply because I don't let it lay there like a dead cat. Again, I can't stop lies thrown at my direction, but surely I can respond to them without following the orders of my accusers.I have never called anyone a liar based on an opinion. It's always been based on a falsehood. Based on what I know of you, I could say Bryce likes looking at uncut boys' penis. Now if I stuck to my guns on that, am I lying or is that an opinion? All you have said is that Bryce: Derp! Although you have never told a lie the entire time I've known you, I think you are dishonest and so you are dishonest! Derp!
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Post by Marv on Mar 15, 2018 0:25:13 GMT
Hard to say. I’d hope I’d roll with it and adapt accordingly. Wondering this whole time how I could spend 30 plus years in this Earth thinking Jaime Lee Curtis was a woman.
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Post by Cody™ on Mar 15, 2018 13:11:29 GMT
gadreel“ALL Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,” 2 Timothy 3:16
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Post by cupcakes on Mar 15, 2018 14:19:38 GMT
tpfkar So yeah in other words you don't trust what's written in the bible. You basically resort to cherry picking what you want to accept and reject. The question still stands why are you a Christian if you don't trust the bible, Gadreel you heretic? You supplant God's word in the Bible with your own at will. No one whose testicles are crushed or whose penis is cut off shall be admitted to the assembly of the LORD.
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Post by gadreel on Mar 15, 2018 17:10:53 GMT
gadreel “ALL Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,” 2 Timothy 3:16 oh well then. It must all be true. You remember the fallacy of using the bible to prove the bible is true right?
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 15, 2018 18:02:37 GMT
gadreel “ALL Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,” 2 Timothy 3:16 oh well then. It must all be true. You remember the fallacy of using the bible to prove the bible is true right? This sums up how pointless it is to discuss personal beliefs.
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Post by gadreel on Mar 15, 2018 18:09:43 GMT
oh well then. It must all be true. You remember the fallacy of using the bible to prove the bible is true right? This sums up how pointless it is to discuss personal beliefs. perhaps discussing personal beliefs is pointless, I am not convinced, but that is not the same as professing your belief. I mean when I asked you what denomination you were I was after information so i could better understand you, it was not so I could tell you you were in the wrong religion. But also in the omnipotence discussion, it might have been helpful to know what your beliefs were so we were not using the same word to refer to different things. You can talk about personal belief without attacking other peoples.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 15, 2018 18:26:56 GMT
This sums up how pointless it is to discuss personal beliefs. perhaps discussing personal beliefs is pointless, I am not convinced, but that is not the same as professing your belief. I mean when I asked you what denomination you were I was after information so i could better understand you, it was not so I could tell you you were in the wrong religion. But also in the omnipotence discussion, it might have been helpful to know what your beliefs were so we were not using the same word to refer to different things. You can talk about personal belief without attacking other peoples. Actually here it is. The professing of beliefs opens those beliefs up for debate which is the thing that is pointless. Otherwise, there's no reason to state them except for entertainment value. of course, maybe that's what is happening.
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Post by gadreel on Mar 15, 2018 18:28:41 GMT
perhaps discussing personal beliefs is pointless, I am not convinced, but that is not the same as professing your belief. I mean when I asked you what denomination you were I was after information so i could better understand you, it was not so I could tell you you were in the wrong religion. But also in the omnipotence discussion, it might have been helpful to know what your beliefs were so we were not using the same word to refer to different things. You can talk about personal belief without attacking other peoples. Actually here it is. The professing of beliefs opens those beliefs up for debate which is the thing that is pointless. Otherwise, there's no reason to state them except for entertainment value. of course, maybe that's what is happening. Yes the professing of beliefs opens them up for debate and yes that is pointless, but the professing of belief can also give more clarity for the person you are talking to, you can profess your beliefs and refuse to debate them, I mean that is Erjen's whole M.O.
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Post by captainbryce on Mar 15, 2018 18:30:10 GMT
gadreel “ALL Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,” 2 Timothy 3:16 If that is true, then why aren’t ALL of the scriptures included into every translation of the bible? What about the Book of Enoch, 2 Maccabees, or Psalm 151, or Ecclesiasticus? Are those “god breathed” too?
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 15, 2018 18:43:59 GMT
Actually here it is. The professing of beliefs opens those beliefs up for debate which is the thing that is pointless. Otherwise, there's no reason to state them except for entertainment value. of course, maybe that's what is happening. Yes the professing of beliefs opens them up for debate and yes that is pointless, but the professing of belief can also give more clarity for the person you are talking to, you can profess your beliefs and refuse to debate them, I mean that is Erjen's whole M.O. I think it is extremely difficult to provide more clarity on a verifiable source by starting with additions to that by way of personal beliefs. To start with personal belief is working backwards and complicates something that can be very simple. For example, Cody insists that believing in the trinity is mandatory for true Christians and yet cannot be bothered to actually verify where it says that in the one book that is mandatory for true Christians. I personally have never been able to find out what the punishment is for thinking the trinity is goofy. Backwards.
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Post by gadreel on Mar 15, 2018 18:50:58 GMT
Yes the professing of beliefs opens them up for debate and yes that is pointless, but the professing of belief can also give more clarity for the person you are talking to, you can profess your beliefs and refuse to debate them, I mean that is Erjen's whole M.O. I think it is extremely difficult to provide more clarity on a verifiable source by starting with additions to that by way of personal beliefs. To start with personal belief is working backwards and complicates something that can be very simple. For example, Cody insists that believing in the trinity is mandatory for true Christians and yet cannot be bothered to actually verify where it says that in the one book that is mandatory for true Christians. I personally have never been able to find out what the punishment is for thinking the trinity is goofy. Backwards. But that is not what we are really talking about, for Cody to say "I believe in the Trinity" is expressing a personal belief, hell it is even a personal belief for him to say "I believe that you must believe in the Trinity to be a Christian" and those can be his stated beliefs and he can articulate them and not discuss them. What you want to discuss is, does scripture support a Trinity, and that, although you will no doubt has differences of opinion, can be a discussion that does not discuss personal belief, but is illuminated by the knowledge of personal belief. You don't have to express your personal belief but sometimes it has value.
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Post by Isapop on Mar 15, 2018 19:01:23 GMT
gadreel
One brief comment. CoolJGS previously made the accusation to you (regarding me): "1. Isapop has made it clear he doesn't actually care what I believe which just verifies he isn't worth the effort to refute."
But here he is again: "This sums up how pointless it is to discuss personal beliefs." "The professing of beliefs opens those beliefs up for debate which is the thing that is pointless."
So, he accuses me of not caring about something that he repeatedly insists is pointless to discuss. Some disconnect there?
(Just for the record, I never implied to CoolJGS that I didn't care about what he believes. I made it clear that my focus was on what his denomination teaches.)
That's all I have time for now. Gotta run.
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