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Post by DC-Fan on Jun 3, 2018 23:42:32 GMT
The Bills were favorites. There's no shame in losing to a superior team. If LeBron loses the NBA Finals to Golden State, there's no shame because Golden State is the superior team. But losing the Super Bowl to an inferior team that you should've beaten 3 TIMES is just shameful and unfathomable and no QB can ever be in the conversation for GOAT after getting his butt kicked in the Super Bowl by an inferior team 3 TIMES. The only time that Pats lost to an inferior team was the 18-1 year. When you claim that a 9-7 Giants team wasn't an inferior team against the Patriots in Super Bowl XLVI, your excuses for Brady lose all credibility. |
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Post by damngumby on Jun 4, 2018 3:37:28 GMT
no QB can ever be in the conversation for GOAT ... when he is beaten in every single category by another QB. Trivia can’t change that. |
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Post by Marv on Jun 4, 2018 3:49:34 GMT
I’d take Manning...then Montana...then Brady.
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Post by shadyvsesham on Jun 4, 2018 5:06:44 GMT
This again!?
It is all a preference. It is close. I do have Brady and Montana 1A and 1B. Who is better, it's all preference.
I also love how people mention the 3 loses...
Both NYG games he put his team in a position to win. He can't play defense.
Hard to win when Bill goes,"I GOT AN IDEA....LETS NOT PLAY OUR BEST DEFENSIVE CORNER!"
The man put up what...505? 506 yards?
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Post by DC-Fan on Jun 4, 2018 5:39:42 GMT
That's actually a fascinating query, considering as a Patriots fan who still prefers the Drew Bledsoe video game stats as David v NFL Goliaths to the Brady machine will attest. Dan Marino has to be the #1 franchise QB I think. That's saying something because guy never won a title with a franchise with 2 SB rings including 17-0, & he's still in 20 f'n 18 the face of the franchise. somebody should make a post (i don't want to shotgun off this)... who is the greatest franchise QB in each of the 32 teams history. list all 32 teams with choices/options.... i'm sure there'd be some great debates.... not just those mentioned above - i.e. favre/rodgers.....montana/young..... manning/simms perhaps? none of these can ever be 'solved' as it's typically old school vs. new school - but it's always a fun debate which is what this is always about  Buffalo Bills - Jim Kelly (easy choice) Miami Dolphins - Dan Marino (easy choice) New England Patriots - Drew Bledsoe New York Jets - Joe Namath AFC NorthBaltimore Ravens - Joe Flacco Cincinnati Bengals - Ken Anderson or Boomer Esiason (I vote for Ken Anderson) Cleveland Browns - Otto Graham Pittsburgh Steelers - Terry Bradshaw or Ben Roethlisberger (I vote for Terry Bradshaw) AFC SouthHouston Texans - Deshaun Watson (not much choice here; the only other possiblity is Matt Schaub) Indianapolis Colts _ Peyton Manning or Johnny Unitas (I vote for Peyton Manning) Jacksonville Jaguars - Mark Brunell Tennessee Titans - Steve McNair or Warren Moon (I vote for Steve McNair) AFC WestDenver Broncos - John Elway (easy choice) Kansas City Chiefs - Len Dawson Los Angeles Chargers - Dan Fouts or Phillip Rivers (I vote for Dan Fouts) Oakland Raiders - Ken Stabler or George Blanda or Jim Plunkett (I vote for Ken Stabler) NFC EastDallas Cowboys - Roger Staubach or Troy Aikman (I vote for Roger Staubach) New York Giants - Eli Manning or Phil Simms (I vote for Eli Manning) Philadelphia Eagles - Donovan McNabb or Randall Cunningham (I vote for Donovan McNabb) Washington Redskins - Sammy Baugh or Sonny Jurgenson or Joe Theismann (I vote for Sammy Baugh) NFC NorthChicago Bears - Sid Luckman Detroit Lions - Bobby Layne or Matthew Stafford (I vote for Bobby Layne) Green Bay Packers - Aaron Rodgers or Bart Starr or Brett Favre (I vote for Aaron Rodgers) Minnesota Vikings - Fran Tarkenton NFC SouthAtlanta Falcons - Matt Ryan Carolina Panthers - Cam Newton New Orleans Saints - Drew Brees or Archie Manning (I vote for Drew Brees) Tampa Bay Buccaneers - Trent Dilfer or Brad Johnson or Doug Williams (I vote for Trent Dilfer) NFC WestArizona Cardinals - Jim Hart Los Angeles Rams - Kurt Warner or Norm Van Brocklin or Bob Waterfield (I vote for Kurt Warner) San Francisco 49ers - Joe Montana or Steve Young (I vote for Joe Montana) Seattle Seahawks - Russell Wilson or Matt Hasselbeck (I vote for Russell Wilson) |
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Post by DC-Fan on Jun 4, 2018 5:46:53 GMT
This again!? It is all a preference. It is close. I do have Brady and Montana 1A and 1B. Who is better, it's all preference. I also love how people mention the 3 loses... Both NYG games he put his team in a position to win. He can't play defense. A QB can help his defense by scoring more than 17 points. Montana put up 26, 38, 20, and 55 points in his 4 Super Bowls. Putting up 38 or 55 points helps the defense a lot more than putting up just 14 or 17 points (like Brady did in the 2 losses to the Giants). A great QB doesn't score just 14 or 17 points in the Super Bowl and then say "Defense, the pressure is on you. Bail us out by making a stop in the final 2 minutes". A great QB puts up 38 or 55 points in the Super Bowl and says "Defense, don't worry. I've got this." It isn't close at all. Montana is #1 and Brady isn't anywhere close. |
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Post by shadyvsesham on Jun 4, 2018 6:10:22 GMT
This again!? It is all a preference. It is close. I do have Brady and Montana 1A and 1B. Who is better, it's all preference. I also love how people mention the 3 loses... Both NYG games he put his team in a position to win. He can't play defense. A QB can help his defense by scoring more than 17 points. Montana put up 26, 38, 20, and 55 points in his 4 Super Bowls. Putting up 38 or 55 points helps the defense a lot more than putting up just 14 or 17 points (like Brady did in the 2 losses to the Giants). A great QB doesn't score just 14 or 17 points in the Super Bowl and then say "Defense, the pressure is on you. Bail us out by making a stop in the final 2 minutes". A great QB puts up 38 or 55 points in the Super Bowl and says "Defense, don't worry. I've got this." It isn't close at all. Montana is #1 and Brady isn't anywhere close. It's all a matter of opinions man. |
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Post by Marv on Jun 4, 2018 6:20:36 GMT
AFC East
Buffalo Bills - Jim Kelly
Miami Dolphins - Dan Marino
New England Patriots - Tom Brady
New York Jets - Joe Namath
AFC North
Baltimore Ravens - Joe Flacco, by default
Cincinnati Bengals - Ken Anderson
Cleveland Browns - Otto Graham
Pittsburgh Steelers - Ben Roethlisberger
AFC South
Houston Texans - Matt Schaub, by default
Indianapolis Colts _ Johnny Unitas and Peyton Manning pretty much tie for me, if i had to choose id go Unitas because of the era he played.
Jacksonville Jaguars - Mark Brunell, by default
Tennessee Titans - Warren Moon
AFC West
Denver Broncos - John Elway
Kansas City Chiefs - Len Dawson
Los Angeles Chargers - Dan Fouts
Oakland Raiders - Ken Stabler
NFC East
Dallas Cowboys - Roger Staubach
New York Giants - Eli Manning
Philadelphia Eagles - Donovan McNabb
Washington Redskins - Sammy Baugh
NFC North
Chicago Bears - Sid Luckman
Detroit Lions - Matt Stafford
Green Bay Packers - Brett Favre
Minnesota Vikings - Fran Tarkenton
NFC South
Atlanta Falcons - Matt Ryan
Carolina Panthers - Cam Newton, by default
New Orleans Saints - Drew Brees
Tampa Bay Buccaneers - What a sh-t show...Winston is 5th all time already for the franchise. Brad Johnson only because of the superbowl run.
NFC West
Arizona Cardinals - Jim Hart
Los Angeles Rams - Kurt Warner
San Francisco 49ers - Joe Montana
Seattle Seahawks - Russell Wilson
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Post by damngumby on Jun 4, 2018 10:54:06 GMT
Montana put up 26, 38, 20, and 55 points in his 4 Super Bowls. Oh look, more insignificant sports trivia. Ok fine ... let’s make up a new category so we can give something (anything) to Joe Montana. Total Career Points Scored in the Super BowlJoe Montana comes in at an impressive 139 points! Oh darn ... Tom Brady wins that one too. 202 points. Maybe we should just hand Joe a participation trophy and be done with it. Eh? |
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Post by FrankSobotka1514 on Jun 4, 2018 11:59:54 GMT
“Um, well, uhhh...Brady dropped that pass on the same type of play that Foles caught for a touchdown, therefore Foles is better plus Montana would have caught it!”
Damn you DC Fan for making me defend Brady and KKB. And please share with the rest of us whatever you’re smoking than enables you to rank Bledsoe ahead of Brady.
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Post by damngumby on Jun 4, 2018 12:24:18 GMT
DC-Fan thinks he can hand Montana the GOAT designation based on a comparison of worst Super Bowl performances by score. Let's take a look ... | Tom Brady | 34 | 33 | 32 | 28 | 24 | 20 | 17 | 14 | | Joe Montana | 55 | 38 | 26 | 20 | 0
| 0 | 0 | 0 |
How do you score ZERO points in four Super Bowls???! Not only that but Montana had a ZERO QB rating, ZERO pass completion percentage, All ZEROES !!! Everywhere!How can a player be called the GOAT when his performance in four Super Bowls was indistinguishable from someone sitting on a couch at home, eating pizza? I think DC-Fan is having another one of his BvS moments.  |
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Post by klawrencio79 on Jun 4, 2018 12:29:44 GMT
This again!? It is all a preference. It is close. I do have Brady and Montana 1A and 1B. Who is better, it's all preference. I also love how people mention the 3 loses... Both NYG games he put his team in a position to win. He can't play defense. A QB can help his defense by scoring more than 17 points. Montana put up 26, 38, 20, and 55 points in his 4 Super Bowls. Putting up 38 or 55 points helps the defense a lot more than putting up just 14 or 17 points (like Brady did in the 2 losses to the Giants). A great QB doesn't score just 14 or 17 points in the Super Bowl and then say "Defense, the pressure is on you. Bail us out by making a stop in the final 2 minutes". A great QB puts up 38 or 55 points in the Super Bowl and says "Defense, don't worry. I've got this." It isn't close at all. Montana is #1 and Brady isn't anywhere close. Do you skin the corpses in your basement before or after you put them in Brady cosplay? |
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Jun 4, 2018 12:39:53 GMT
Montana played, by far, in the toughest era for the QB, compared to the other two. Not even a contest. You cannot use stats to prove who is the best. Stats can be misleading. You have to use your eyes, your ability to look at a player and tell how great he is and then toss in some stats, some SB wins, etc. Joe Montana, and I say this while rooting against him most of his career, was the best QB I have ever seen. No doubt. Montana played in an era where it was easier to keep a super team together and one conference was head and shoulders above the other, so I think at worst it evens out. |
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Jun 4, 2018 12:42:53 GMT
It's a little shocking that Joe Montana wins none of these categories. Apparently, his legacy has been way overblown. Peyton Manning was Tom Brady's greatest rival, but he fell short in every category that really matters. Tom Brady is still playing at an MVP level. How many more of these categories will drop into his column before he is done? |
Brady | Montana | Manning | Winner | | World Championships | 5 | 4 | 2 | Brady | | Conference Championships | 8 | 4 | 4 | Brady | | Divisional Titles | 15 | 8 | 11 | Brady | | Superbowl MVP | 4 | 3 | 1 | Brady | | NFL MVP | 3 | 2 | 5 | Manning | | Pro Bowls | 13 | 8 | 14 | Manning | | First Team All Pro | 5 | 3 | 7 | Manning | | NFL Offensive Player of the Year | 2 | 1 | 2 | Tie Brady/Manning | | Passing TD Leader | 4 | 2 | 4 | Tie Brady/Manning | | Career Passer Rating | 97.6 | 92.3 | 96.5 | Brady | | Career TD/Int | 3/1 | 2/1 | 2/1 | Brady | | Completion % | 63.9 | 63.2 | 65.3 | Manning | | Career Win % | 77.4 | 71.1 | 68.5 | Brady | | Bogus Suspensions based on Fake Science | 1 | 0 | 0 | Brady | | Make-believe Asterisks created by Butt-hurt Fans | 4 | 0 | 0 | Brady |
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is why Tom Brady is the GOAT!It's worth noting that Manning leads in all the dopey media jack off categories. Honestly I'm not sure why he's even in this graph, nobody talks about him anymore. Brady vs. Montana or Brady vs. history are the only narratives left out there at this point. |
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Post by sdm3 on Jun 4, 2018 13:04:31 GMT
“Um, well, uhhh...Brady dropped that pass on the same type of play that Foles caught for a touchdown, therefore Foles is better plus Montana would have caught it!” Damn you DC Fan for making me defend Brady and KKB. And please share with the rest of us whatever you’re smoking than enables you to rank Bledsoe ahead of Brady. I’ll give this a try. All of Brady’s accomplishments are canceled out by his cheating and come with an asterisk. There are no asterisks next to any of Bledsoe’s wins. Even the wins by Brady where no cheating occurred (to our knowledge), such as Super Bowl LI, with Brady’s history we have to assume that there was some kind of cheating going on that hasn’t been discovered yet. Therefore those wins are also invalid. Also, even though the Super Bowl LI comeback was by itself more impressive than anything Bledsoe ever did, Brady also threw a pick-six in that game. Bledsoe never threw a pick-six in a Super Bowl. So Bledsoe is better. How’d I do, DC Fan? |
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Post by FrankSobotka1514 on Jun 4, 2018 13:10:05 GMT
“Um, well, uhhh...Brady dropped that pass on the same type of play that Foles caught for a touchdown, therefore Foles is better plus Montana would have caught it!” Damn you DC Fan for making me defend Brady and KKB. And please share with the rest of us whatever you’re smoking than enables you to rank Bledsoe ahead of Brady. I’ll give this a try. All of Brady’s accomplishments are canceled out by his cheating and come with an asterisk. There are no asterisks next to any of Bledsoe’s wins. Even the wins by Brady where no cheating occurred (to our knowledge), such as Super Bowl LI, with Brady’s history we have to assume that there was some kind of cheating going on that hasn’t been discovered yet. Therefore those wins are also invalid. Also, even though the Super Bowl LI comeback was by itself more impressive than anything Bledsoe ever did, Brady also threw a pick-six in that game. Bledsoe never threw a pick-six in a Super Bowl. So Bledsoe is better. How’d I do, DC Fan? Damn, that was just like Trump tweeting under Melania’s name. |
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Post by klawrencio79 on Jun 4, 2018 14:15:23 GMT
“Um, well, uhhh...Brady dropped that pass on the same type of play that Foles caught for a touchdown, therefore Foles is better plus Montana would have caught it!” Damn you DC Fan for making me defend Brady and KKB. And please share with the rest of us whatever you’re smoking than enables you to rank Bledsoe ahead of Brady. I’ll give this a try. All of Brady’s accomplishments are canceled out by his cheating and come with an asterisk. There are no asterisks next to any of Bledsoe’s wins. Even the wins by Brady where no cheating occurred (to our knowledge), such as Super Bowl LI, with Brady’s history we have to assume that there was some kind of cheating going on that hasn’t been discovered yet. Therefore those wins are also invalid. Also, even though the Super Bowl LI comeback was by itself more impressive than anything Bledsoe ever did, Brady also threw a pick-six in that game. Bledsoe never threw a pick-six in a Super Bowl. So Bledsoe is better. How’d I do, DC Fan? You forgot to use red and bold font. Also, needs more circular logic. |
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Post by Marv on Jun 4, 2018 15:58:12 GMT
I’ve said it before...Brady isn’t even the best q.b. of his generation. Possibly not even number 2. I’ve watched his entire career and he’s had great success, true, but as a player he’s almost never impressed me. Contrary to Manning who’s impressed me countless times. But the thing is, this argument is subjective. You can throw all these stats out here, at the end of the day there are far too many moving parts to legitimately compare any two careers. All that anyone should ask is that it’s in the ballpark. You know? If someone starts to argue why Rodney Peete was better than Montana then I’ll argue that. But saying one great is better than another is kind of fruitless. If you have any of these three guys on your team in their prime you are a Super Bowl contender.
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Post by damngumby on Jun 4, 2018 16:13:23 GMT
But the thing is, this argument is subjective. Usually, it is. But when one player so dominates another player in every measurable category, like Brady over Montana, we find ourselves in objective territory. The evidence is so overwhelming that anyone who still clings to the subjective opinion that Montana is somehow still the GOAT, is just wrong. I threw Manning in the mix because he's back in the news with those HGH allegations. He was never a serious contender for GOAT. |
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Post by FrankSobotka1514 on Jun 4, 2018 16:15:17 GMT
I’ve said it before...Brady isn’t even the best q.b. of his generation. Possibly not even number 2. I’ve watched his entire career and he’s had great success, true, but as a player he’s almost never impressed me. Contrary to Manning who’s impressed me countless times. But the thing is, this argument is subjective. You can throw all these stats out here, at the end of the day there are far too many moving parts to legitimately compare any two careers. All that anyone should ask is that it’s in the ballpark. You know? If someone starts to argue why Rodney Peete was better than Montana then I’ll argue that. But saying one great is better than another is kind of fruitless. If you have any of these three guys on your team in their prime you are a Super Bowl contender. Peete never lost a Super Bowl as a starter, but Brady has lost 3. Therefore Peete was better. Also, as far as we know, Peete never deflated footballs. And Holly Robinson Peete is a better actress than Giselle. |
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