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Post by damngumby on Jun 1, 2018 20:25:01 GMT
It's a little shocking that Joe Montana wins none of these categories. Apparently, his legacy has been way overblown. Peyton Manning was Tom Brady's greatest rival, but he fell short in every category that really matters. Tom Brady is still playing at an MVP level. How many more of these categories will drop into his column before he is done? | Brady | Montana | Manning | Winner | World Championships | 5 | 4 | 2 | Brady | Conference Championships | 8 | 4 | 4 | Brady | Divisional Titles | 15 | 8 | 11 | Brady | Superbowl MVP | 4 | 3 | 1 | Brady | NFL MVP | 3 | 2 | 5 | Manning | Pro Bowls | 13 | 8 | 14 | Manning | First Team All Pro | 5 | 3 | 7 | Manning | NFL Offensive Player of the Year | 2 | 1 | 2 | Tie Brady/Manning | Passing TD Leader | 4 | 2 | 4 | Tie Brady/Manning | Career Passer Rating | 97.6 | 92.3 | 96.5 | Brady | Career TD/Int | 3/1 | 2/1 | 2/1 | Brady | Completion % | 63.9 | 63.2 | 65.3 | Manning | Career Win % | 77.4 | 71.1 | 68.5 | Brady | Bogus Suspensions based on Fake Science | 1 | 0 | 0 | Brady | Make-believe Asterisks created by Butt-hurt Fans | 4 | 0 | 0 | Brady |
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This is why Tom Brady is the GOAT!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2018 20:31:57 GMT
If there's one thing clear here - it's that Joe Montana was overrated
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2018 21:14:18 GMT
Montana played, by far, in the toughest era for the QB, compared to the other two. Not even a contest.
You cannot use stats to prove who is the best. Stats can be misleading.
You have to use your eyes, your ability to look at a player and tell how great he is and then toss in some stats, some SB wins, etc.
Joe Montana, and I say this while rooting against him most of his career, was the best QB I have ever seen. No doubt.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2018 21:16:50 GMT
Montana played, by far, in the toughest era for the QB, compared to the other two. Not even a contest. You cannot use stats to prove who is the best. Stats can be misleading. You have to use your eyes, your ability to look at a player and tell how great he is and then toss in some stats, some SB wins, etc. Joe Montana, and I say this while rooting against him most of his career, was the best QB I have ever seen. No doubt. Why do you state it was the toughest era for the QB? Defense? Competition amongst other QBs? Not being argumentative - just curious. People typically bring up Marino at this point - who is pretty much the Charles Barkley of the NFL.
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Post by anthonyrocks on Jun 1, 2018 21:24:22 GMT
JOE MONTANA
SUPERBOWL WINS - 4 SUPERBOWL LOSSES - 0
TOM BRADY
SUPERBOWL WINS - 5 SUPERBOWL LOSSES - 3
PEYTON MANNING
SUPERBOWL WINS - 2 SUPERBOWL LOSSES - 2
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2018 21:50:36 GMT
JOE MONTANASUPERBOWL WINS - 4 SUPERBOWL LOSSES - 0 TOM BRADYSUPERBOWL WINS - 5 SUPERBOWL LOSSES - 3 PEYTON MANNINGSUPERBOWL WINS - 2 SUPERBOWL LOSSES - 2 Yeah - but Peyton had to go up against the GOAT and Roethisberger (who always gets disrespected in this conversation) in the same Conference for years. Who did Webster go up against - Chris Everett?
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Post by FrankSobotka1514 on Jun 1, 2018 22:15:18 GMT
Montana and Walsh were the perfect combination of coach and QB and he had a great team around him. The same can be said for Brady. The Colts were never as good as the 49ers or Patriots at their peaks. You can attribute nearly all of the Colts’ success to Peyton. In a way he overcame more. Dungy was good but no Walsh or Belichick. The Colts never could build a complete team. If he spent his entire career in Denver no one would be having this conversation. My only point in this is that there are other factors. Not arguing Brady isn’t the GOAT because he probably is. But the game was different in Montana’s era and Peyton was surrounded by incompetence in Indy.
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Post by bluerisk on Jun 1, 2018 22:38:43 GMT
It's a little shocking that Joe Montana wins none of these categories. Apparently, his legacy has been way overblown. Peyton Manning was Tom Brady's greatest rival, but he fell short in every category that really matters. Tom Brady is still playing at an MVP level. How many more of these categories will drop into his column before he is done? | Brady | Montana | Manning | Winner | World Championships | 5 | 4 | 2 | Brady | Conference Championships | 8 | 4 | 4 | Brady | Divisional Titles | 15 | 8 | 11 | Brady | Superbowl MVP | 4 | 3 | 1 | Brady | NFL MVP | 3 | 2 | 5 | Manning | Pro Bowls | 13 | 8 | 14 | Manning | First Team All Pro | 5 | 3 | 7 | Manning | NFL Offensive Player of the Year | 2 | 1 | 2 | Tie Brady/Manning | Passing TD Leader | 4 | 2 | 4 | Tie Brady/Manning | Career Passer Rating | 97.6 | 92.3 | 96.5 | Brady | Career TD/Int | 3/1 | 2/1 | 2/1 | Brady | Completion % | 63.9 | 63.2 | 65.3 | Manning | Career Win % | 77.4 | 71.1 | 68.5 | Brady | Bogus Suspensions based on Fake Science | 1 | 0 | 0 | Brady | Make-believe Asterisks created by Butt-hurt Fans | 4 | 0 | 0 | Brady |
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This is why Tom Brady is the GOAT!Stuff like MVP is a choice by others, not an actual achievement by own merits. More a popularity contest than a true evaluation of greatness. Like at the WC in 2014 when Messi was chosen as best player because he was the biggest name in the later stage of the tournament, not because he was the player of the tournament. It was a "political" choice.
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Post by tristramshandy on Jun 2, 2018 0:26:12 GMT
Montana played, by far, in the toughest era for the QB, compared to the other two. Not even a contest. You cannot use stats to prove who is the best. Stats can be misleading. You have to use your eyes, your ability to look at a player and tell how great he is and then toss in some stats, some SB wins, etc. Joe Montana, and I say this while rooting against him most of his career, was the best QB I have ever seen. No doubt. Why do you state it was the toughest era for the QB? Defense? Competition amongst other QBs? Not being argumentative - just curious. People typically bring up Marino at this point - who is pretty much the Charles Barkley of the NFL. Lawrence Taylor, Reggie White, the mid-80s Bears - - back when you could actually hit a quarterback and mug a receiver.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2018 0:48:14 GMT
Why do you state it was the toughest era for the QB? Defense? Competition amongst other QBs? Not being argumentative - just curious. People typically bring up Marino at this point - who is pretty much the Charles Barkley of the NFL. Lawrence Taylor, Reggie White, the mid-80s Bears - - back when you could actually hit a quarterback and mug a receiver. back then you could be Coked out of your head too and run around like a crazed lunatic like LT - nowadays you get suspended for shopping at GNC
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Post by tristramshandy on Jun 2, 2018 1:25:54 GMT
Montana lead the league in completion percentage in 1985 at 61.3%. Russell Wilson completed 61.3% of his passes last year - - and came in 22nd place in the league. Brett Hundley completed 60.8% of his passes last year. It's a completely different game, one that is much easier for quarterbacks today.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jun 2, 2018 2:13:25 GMT
Joe Montana, and I say this while rooting against him most of his career, was the best QB I have ever seen. No doubt. Agreed. I rooted against Montana in every game that he played for the 49ers. But as much as I hate to admit it, when it comes to NFL QBs, Montana was the best there is, the best there was, and the best there ever will be.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jun 2, 2018 2:17:16 GMT
Montana played, by far, in the toughest era for the QB, compared to the other two. Not even a contest. You cannot use stats to prove who is the best. Stats can be misleading. You have to use your eyes, your ability to look at a player and tell how great he is and then toss in some stats, some SB wins, etc. Joe Montana, and I say this while rooting against him most of his career, was the best QB I have ever seen. No doubt. Why do you state it was the toughest era for the QB? Defense? Competition amongst other QBs? Not being argumentative - just curious. People typically bring up Marino at this point - who is pretty much the Charles Barkley of the NFL. Montana played in an era when defenses were still allowed to play defense and still allowed to hit QBs, often in the head, without any penalty. And besides never being suspended for cheating like Brady was, another thing that makes Montana way better than Brady is that Montana never whined to the refs to throw a flag after getting hit by the defense while Brady is as famous for constantly whining to the refs for penalties against the defense as Brady is famous for cheating.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jun 2, 2018 2:20:14 GMT
JOE MONTANASUPERBOWL WINS - 4 SUPERBOWL LOSSES - 0 TOM BRADYSUPERBOWL WINS - 5 SUPERBOWL LOSSES - 3 PEYTON MANNINGSUPERBOWL WINS - 2 SUPERBOWL LOSSES - 2 Not only did Montana never lose a Super Bowl, Montana never even threw an INT in a Super Bowl. And all 3 of Brady's Super Bowl losses were to inferior teams that he should've beaten, including a loss to a double-digit underdog when Brady's team was 18*-0. Montana would never have his butt kicked in the Super Bowl by an inferior team. Brady has had his butt kicked in the Super Bowl by an inferior team 3 TIMES!
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Post by twothousandonemark on Jun 2, 2018 2:24:56 GMT
If there's one thing clear here - it's that Joe Montana was overrated Not overrated. He did however play in a timing based system with the f'n goat of all receivers. 3 steps back, look for Jerry who's where he's always gonna be... pass the baton to Steve Young without it dropping.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jun 2, 2018 2:29:39 GMT
Montana and Walsh were the perfect combination of coach and QB and he had a great team around him. The same can be said for Brady. The Colts were never as good as the 49ers or Patriots at their peaks. You can attribute nearly all of the Colts’ success to Peyton. In a way he overcame more. Dungy was good but no Walsh or Belichick. The Colts never could build a complete team. If he spent his entire career in Denver no one would be having this conversation. My only point in this is that there are other factors. Not arguing Brady isn’t the GOAT because he probably is. But the game was different in Montana’s era and Peyton was surrounded by incompetence in Indy. Peyton Manning is basically the LeBron James of the NFL. LeBron was surrounded with mediocre talent that wouldn't have won anything without him, but LeBron managed to carry several of those teams to the NBA Finals. Likewise, Peyton Manning never had the coaching and superior teams that Brady or Montana had and those Colts teams wouldn't have won anything without Peyton, but Peyton was able to carry those Colts teams to the playoffs and a couple of Super Bowls and won a Super Bowl. So as far as who did more with less, the answer is clearly Peyton Manning. As for who's the best, the answer is clearly Joe Montana. Montana played in an era when defenses were still allowed to play defense and still allowed to hit QBs, often in the head, without any penalty. But what puts Montana head and shoulders above everyone else is in 4 Super Bowls - 2 blowout wins, no losses, no interceptions. Brady not only has never won a Super Bowl by more than a 1-possession margin (even Peyton won both his Super Bowls by double-digit margins), but Brady has also lost 3 Super Bowls to inferior teams that he should've beaten.
Montana would never have his butt kicked in a Super Bowl by an inferior team. Brady has had his butt kicked in a Super Bowl by an inferior team 3 TIMES! That puts an end to any argument for Brady being the GOAT. When it comes to NFL QBs, Montana is clearly the best there is, the best there was, and the best there ever will be.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jun 2, 2018 2:33:09 GMT
Montana lead the league in completion percentage in 1985 at 61.3%. Russell Wilson completed 61.3% of his passes last year - - and came in 22nd place in the league. Brett Hundley completed 60.8% of his passes last year. It's a completely different game, one that is much easier for quarterbacks today. The game is much easier for QBs today because defenses aren't allowed to play defense or hit the QB like they did back when Montana played. In today's game, when a QB gets hit in the head, they get 15 yards and an automatic 1st down. When Montana played, when a QB got hit in the head, they got nothing and they were expected to just shake it off and move on to the next play.
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Post by damngumby on Jun 2, 2018 9:18:13 GMT
You cannot use stats to prove who is the best. Stats can be misleading. You have to use your eyes I used accomplishments first, accolades second, stats third. Personal opinions come in at a distant forth. Not only did Montana never lose a Super Bowl, Montana never even threw an INT in a Super Bowl. Trivia ... well ... we’ll save the sports trivia for the game shows.
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Post by damngumby on Jun 2, 2018 10:12:43 GMT
Joe Montana loses every single matchup with Tom Brady.
Every Single One!
I’ll give you guys a minute to let that bit of information sink in ................... (insert elevator music here)....................... Ok! We good?
I included Montana in this list as a courtesy, but in retrospect I can see how laying out all these facts would be embarrassing for Montana fans.
Considering the fact that Montana comes in last in the MVP and Pro Bowl categories indicates that he wasn’t considered all that great, even when he was playing.
Sorry about the reality check.
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Post by FrankSobotka1514 on Jun 2, 2018 13:21:20 GMT
Joe Montana loses every single matchup with Tom Brady. Every Single One!I’ll give you guys a minute to let that bit of information sink in ................... (insert elevator music here)....................... Ok! We good? I included Montana in this list as a courtesy, but in retrospect I can see how laying out all these facts would be embarrassing for Montana fans. Considering the fact that Montana comes in last in the MVP and Pro Bowl categories indicates that he wasn’t considered all that great, even when he was playing. Sorry about the reality check. I would think that most people here except for DCFan would believe that Brady is the GOAT, myself included, but your trolling and reasoning makes us want to argue with you. Is it possible that Montana won fewer mvps because the caliber of his peers was better than Brady & Manning? Is it possible that in a team game total number of championships is a less relevant stat? No one would argue that Nick Foles and Brad Johnson were better than Dan Marino. Isn’t it possible that the Colts played within the rules while the 49ers circumvented the salary cap and the Patriots, to put it mildly, bent the rules? Isn’t it the same bullshit Jordan vs LeBron argument? Maybe Favre was better than all of them? But who cares. Congratulations, you’ve got the goat, that and $5 gets you a Starbucks. Enjoy.
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