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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2018 22:54:06 GMT
you know when you look at thor 3, imagine if they had not brought in hulk in the film, take him out and focus on the true nature of Ragnarök and give thor a better more challenging arc. but no mcu cant do that hard work. they just turned thor to gotg, have him crossover with another marvel series, make a lot of jokes and bamb. that is what they call a movie. that is what their fans try to defend. pathetic. Keep talking summers. You're not proving anything with your nonsensical ramblings.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Oct 21, 2018 23:43:56 GMT
you know when you look at thor 3, imagine if they had not brought in hulk in the film, take him out and focus on the true nature of Ragnarök and give thor a better more challenging arc. but no mcu cant do that hard work. they just turned thor to gotg, have him crossover with another marvel series, make a lot of jokes and bamb. that is what they call a movie. that is what their fans try to defend. pathetic. Keep talking summers. You're not proving anything with your nonsensical ramblings. Nah, he is.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2018 23:50:39 GMT
Keep talking summers. You're not proving anything with your nonsensical ramblings. Nah, he is. How do you know if you haven't seen Thor 3?
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Post by merh on Oct 22, 2018 0:50:14 GMT
Seen a this Youtube video by Vox which was trending pretty high yesterday (and still is), but basically saying how the MCU world building is not very well constructed. It has gathered 1 million + views and a big reaction. Its just under 10 mins long but I recommend starting from minute 4 onwards, as the first 4 minutes is jus Marvel comics publication history. Basically the narrator is saying that the MCU's cross over and world building is very shallow and superficial to the point it feels empty without any real tangibility. He highlights that a lot of the so called crossover potential is only limited to passing references of characters in the various individual solo films. For example Hank Pym mentioning Stark in Antman for a few seconds then forgetting about him for the remaining duration of the movie. Or Spiderman in Homecoming mocking the criminals wearing Avenger masks. ''The universe is only as deep as some of its merchandise'' . There are multiple other examples littered throughout many MCU movies but the video says all this just creates hype for crossovers, not actual universe building or good storytelling to create said universe. ''The MCU has no rules beyond corporate ownership''. The narrator goes onto say if you added Aquaman to Infinity War no one would notice. Conversely if you add Hawkeye to Justice League no one would care either. This is because the DCEU has also the same mechanics of world building as the MCU the video goes onto say. That Wonder Woman clip of her opening emails lasts for a few seconds, and this is totally forgotten about for the rest of the movie. The DCEU has the same problems in building effective intertwined universes just as the MCU does. The video then goes onto point out 1 comic franchise that does achieve this aspect in the right way: the X-men movie franchise. ''Every character, human and mutant has taken sides in a generations long battle, with real stakes unlike Marvels Civil War''
''This allows decade jumping and tonal experimentation shifts but with deep integration to the X-men mythology.''A good example is the X-men cameo at the mansion in Deadpool 2. Now on the surface it would seem like this is very similar to something like Captain Americas cameo on a gym video in Homecoming. Both last a few seconds and provide a good laugh for the audience. Unlike the throway Cap cameo, it is more believable for Deadpool 2 sharing a world with Xmen because Wade Wlsons story is still deeply entrenched in X-men lore. The tone of Deadpool 2 may be completely opposite of the mainline films, but the character still inhabits the same world that other X-men have/do exist because the world building is more than just superficial name drops, Easter egg nods or merchandise fan servicing. Thoughts on the video? Whiny little fanboy. Fox has REAL STAKES!!!!! No. It's stupid. Of course Aquaman could work in MCU. He's a rip-off of Namor who IS part of the Marvel Universe, something this dork dismissed as a corporate ploy. This guy sounds like a purist who only wants each character to exist in its pure world. Every crossover was a corporate ploy. Wrong. Marvel Comics, unlike DC, largely live in & around NYC so it's far more likely Spidey WILL run onto Cap or Mr Fantastic. DC heroes live in Metropolis or Gotham or National City, etc. Dorkboy's insistence all mutants take sides ignores several XMEN have been Avengers. This also extends to MCU.
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Post by charzhino on Oct 22, 2018 8:02:15 GMT
Whiny little fanboy. Fox has REAL STAKES!!!!! No. It's stupid.
The guy in the video says how Civil Wars stakes feels more empty compared to an X-men film like Days of Future Past, because the latter is a combination of 2 separate eras in time coalescing to fight a common struggle. That is what makes the crossover event feel more genuine because all the characters have a purpose instead of being thrown together for commercialization. There is more at stake in the DOFP than Civil War because the war on mutants has been fought for decades. How long has the civil war in the MCU been going on? A few days? 1 or 2 movies? Most of the characters who fight in the Civil War airport sequence have no deep vested interest in the actual conflict. They are only there for commercial reasons to sell crossover hype. The characters in DOFP, even the obscure ones like Sunspot and Blink have a strong purpose in the plot, they are fighting for their very survival, to prevent their extermination.
Antman, Black Widow, Vision, Hawkeye and Spiderman in CIVIL WAR, have very little to do with any accords debate or capturing Bucky. They aren't involved in some years/generational long battle. There is no deep division that's been building for years. They are purely there for non-essential reasons therefore the stakes are diluted and that is what the narrator in the video meant by comparing Civil Wars world building and stakes compared to the Xmen.
The Civil War story only needed Stark, Cap, Black Panther and Bucky. The added extras provide no further depth to the story because they are irrelevant to the plot making the ''crossover world building'' a pointless exercise, in-name only. The added extras in X-men all show different angles of their stories in the larger framework of the mutant oppressing world which has been built for decades.
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Post by charzhino on Oct 22, 2018 8:17:37 GMT
I see @weirdraptor is upset and thinks this is a ''troll'' thread even though scabab pointed out im just relaying a popular video that was published recently. If anyone posted this so called anti-MCU video on your website would they banned?
Nonethless, I did watch the counter videos you/others posted. I agree that Aquaman appearing in IW would showcase the strength of the MCUs ability to build a world where any diverse character from strange origin can preside rather than it being a negative as Vox initially stated. But do you agree on Voxs thoughts that the way the DCEU has been building its world, Wonder Woman opening emails, is a good way to achieve that and how are the MCU doing it better? Vox are saying they are one and the same.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Oct 22, 2018 10:39:04 GMT
Damn this thread got spicy!
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Oct 22, 2018 12:23:56 GMT
I would ask why this conversation is still going on, but I know this board too well for that.
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Post by Skaathar on Oct 22, 2018 16:22:43 GMT
This is what happens when people fight trolls back fire with fire. The only reason every conversation in this board doesn't turn into this kind of thread is because we normally allow the trolls to get away with their shit.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2018 23:32:52 GMT
I see @weirdraptor is upset and thinks this is a ''troll'' thread even though scabab pointed out im just relaying a popular video that was published recently. If anyone posted this so called anti-MCU video on your website would they banned? Nonethless, I did watch the counter videos you/others posted. I agree that Aquaman appearing in IW would showcase the strength of the MCUs ability to build a world where any diverse character from strange origin can preside rather than it being a negative as Vox initially stated. But do you agree on Voxs thoughts that the way the DCEU has been building its world, Wonder Woman opening emails, is a good way to achieve that and how are the MCU doing it better? Vox are saying they are one and the same. This IS a troll thread. Stop pretending otherwise. A popular video? Have you seen the like-to-dislike ratio? Over 3/4ths of the viewership have all hit the dislike button. You relayed that video to push your opinion on everyone here. Actually, we have discussed the video at great length over at Knowhere. Care to try again? Vox has no idea what they're talking about, and just about everyone with a brain can see it. No, BvS's video scene not one and the same as how the MCU handles connective tissue in general. BvS hit the pause button on the whole movie to make a commercial for upcoming films. Even the clunkiest examples to be found in the MCU (which happen to be Ironman 2 and Thor: The Dark World), still kept the story going and the characters were still being developed while it happening. We learn nothing more about Diana during that scene in BvS, or Bruce. Hell, neither one have any reason to give a damn about other Metahumans at the moment, because Superman is the main issue here. At least mention of other heroes only ever comes up in MCU films when it's relevant. Most of the time, the connective tissue is a lot more smooth in each MCU film when it comes up. Besides which, they tend to regulate the bulk of it to bonus scenes during the credits. And even when anything connective to the larger universe comes up in the main bulk of the running time, it's kept brief. And even when they do it, it's STILL saying something about the characters involved. Like in the first "Ant-Man", when Scott Lang immediately just wants to call The Avengers and let them take care of Cross. Hank refuses, and this is when both he and the audience learn just how important it is to Pym that his technology be kept out of EVERYONE'S hands because of how easily abused it is. We also learn that he still doesn't trust the Starks, be they Howard OR Tony, and has deep reservations about The Avengers. See? Connective tissue to the rest of the universe, AND Hank Pym's character is being developed all at the same time. And I suppose you're going to make me prove that Scott's fight with Falcon was necessary? Fine. It was the new Ant-Man's first outing. This was his true and final trial by fire to prove that he could be the Ant-Man Hank and Hope needed him to be. And he succeeded. He held his own against an Avenger in a straight up fight AND he retrieved the signal decoy. Mission success, and he proved himself in a real combat situation as a bonus.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2018 23:38:08 GMT
Whiny little fanboy. Fox has REAL STAKES!!!!! No. It's stupid.
The guy in the video says how Civil Wars stakes feels more empty compared to an X-men film like Days of Future Past, because the latter is a combination of 2 separate eras in time coalescing to fight a common struggle. That is what makes the crossover event feel more genuine because all the characters have a purpose instead of being thrown together for commercialization. There is more at stake in the DOFP than Civil War because the war on mutants has been fought for decades. How long has the civil war in the MCU been going on? A few days? 1 or 2 movies? Most of the characters who fight in the Civil War airport sequence have no deep vested interest in the actual conflict. They are only there for commercial reasons to sell crossover hype. The characters in DOFP, even the obscure ones like Sunspot and Blink have a strong purpose in the plot, they are fighting for their very survival, to prevent their extermination.
Antman, Black Widow, Vision, Hawkeye and Spiderman in CIVIL WAR, have very little to do with any accords debate or capturing Bucky. They aren't involved in some years/generational long battle. There is no deep division that's been building for years. They are purely there for non-essential reasons therefore the stakes are diluted and that is what the narrator in the video meant by comparing Civil Wars world building and stakes compared to the Xmen.
The Civil War story only needed Stark, Cap, Black Panther and Bucky. The added extras provide no further depth to the story because they are irrelevant to the plot making the ''crossover world building'' a pointless exercise, in-name only. The added extras in X-men all show different angles of their stories in the larger framework of the mutant oppressing world which has been built for decades. Actually, they're there to show how far both Steve and Tony are willing to go to fight their respective battles. Also, you're dead wrong about Black Widow and Vision uninvolved with The Accords debate. Black Widow and Vision were both currently members of The Avengers and would have fall under UN control like everyone else. Same with Wanda, who you conveniently fail to mention. As for Hawkeye, Ant-Man, and Spider-Man, that's actually the whole point. Steve and Tony were both willing to recruit people who were completely uninvolved with their very dangerous personal missions and put them in harm's way. Though at least Steve gave Scott the option of backing out. Both sides were SO convinced that they were in the right they failed to pick up on what Zemo was REALLY up to, which came back to bite EVERYONE in the ass. Could anyone have discerned what Zemo was really up to? Maybe, if they were all working together, but we'll never know, because no one was willing to compromise and come to a resolution that was semi-agreeable to both sides of the debate. Oh, and how long was the Civil War in the MCU? Well, are The Avengers together and unified in Infinity War?
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Post by scabab on Oct 22, 2018 23:55:26 GMT
I had to remove one small unnecessary line but otherwise this is going well, a real improvement. Something that resembles an actual back and forth discussion that's worth reading. Good job everyone.
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Post by merh on Oct 25, 2018 7:15:59 GMT
Whiny little fanboy. Fox has REAL STAKES!!!!! No. It's stupid.
The guy in the video says how Civil Wars stakes feels more empty compared to an X-men film like Days of Future Past, because the latter is a combination of 2 separate eras in time coalescing to fight a common struggle. That is what makes the crossover event feel more genuine because all the characters have a purpose instead of being thrown together for commercialization. There is more at stake in the DOFP than Civil War because the war on mutants has been fought for decades. How long has the civil war in the MCU been going on? A few days? 1 or 2 movies? Most of the characters who fight in the Civil War airport sequence have no deep vested interest in the actual conflict. They are only there for commercial reasons to sell crossover hype. The characters in DOFP, even the obscure ones like Sunspot and Blink have a strong purpose in the plot, they are fighting for their very survival, to prevent their extermination.
Antman, Black Widow, Vision, Hawkeye and Spiderman in CIVIL WAR, have very little to do with any accords debate or capturing Bucky. They aren't involved in some years/generational long battle. There is no deep division that's been building for years. They are purely there for non-essential reasons therefore the stakes are diluted and that is what the narrator in the video meant by comparing Civil Wars world building and stakes compared to the Xmen.
The Civil War story only needed Stark, Cap, Black Panther and Bucky. The added extras provide no further depth to the story because they are irrelevant to the plot making the ''crossover world building'' a pointless exercise, in-name only. The added extras in X-men all show different angles of their stories in the larger framework of the mutant oppressing world which has been built for decades. Dude, I NEVER much cared for the X-Men. The guy in the video said the X-Men had REAL STAKES because they had to pick sides as a part of their lives as mutants It never spoke to me. The mutant stuff felt like a substitute for the racial strife of the 60s, but incredibly more shallow, like they couldn't actually address Civil Rights in the early 60s in a comic book. It has always felt cheap, like its trying to make me care about a knockoff product. So #1. THESE ARE FICTIONAL CHARACTERS. WHAT FRICKEN "REAL STAKES"? All they have is make me feel about the characters & the whole Xmen world feels cheap as crap to me. I CARED when Nighthawk died. I CARED when Mar-vell died. The only X-Man I really cared about they never knew how to use. Chris Claremont & John Byrne were supposed to be SO DAMNED AMAZING, but the book always felt cheap & shallow to me. Like the creative team felt IT WAS MAKING SUCH A BIG STATEMENT ALL THE TIME. Pretentious as hell On the other hand, I have read Captain America for as far back as I remember. (My sister read X-Men. I don't think the 60s team did much for me. They didn't really do squat with Angel, either). I CARE about the character. He SPEAKS to me. Tony Stark is prima dona. Bucky, screwed over by Hydra, taken out of deep freeze as they chose, mind wiped as they chose, had been a good guy. They took that from him. Basically stripped EVERYTHING from him down to his very identity. Cap had faith that good man remained somewhere in there. So SORRY Captain America: Civil War speaks to me more than any Xmen story ever has. It is a battle for a man's identity who no one else has any faith in. The divide is those who accept Cap's judgement vs those that don't care about justice.
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Post by merh on Oct 25, 2018 7:20:32 GMT
I see @weirdraptor is upset and thinks this is a ''troll'' thread even though scabab pointed out im just relaying a popular video that was published recently. If anyone posted this so called anti-MCU video on your website would they banned? Nonethless, I did watch the counter videos you/others posted. I agree that Aquaman appearing in IW would showcase the strength of the MCUs ability to build a world where any diverse character from strange origin can preside rather than it being a negative as Vox initially stated. But do you agree on Voxs thoughts that the way the DCEU has been building its world, Wonder Woman opening emails, is a good way to achieve that and how are the MCU doing it better? Vox are saying they are one and the same. DCEU is trying to shortcut. I wish to hell they would get their crap together. I WANT them to work, but what we have gotten so far is the studio thinks the fans will gobble up any crap they give us because BATMAN.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Oct 27, 2018 15:18:16 GMT
The guy in the video says how Civil Wars stakes feels more empty compared to an X-men film like Days of Future Past, because the latter is a combination of 2 separate eras in time coalescing to fight a common struggle. That is what makes the crossover event feel more genuine because all the characters have a purpose instead of being thrown together for commercialization. There is more at stake in the DOFP than Civil War because the war on mutants has been fought for decades. How long has the civil war in the MCU been going on? A few days? 1 or 2 movies? Most of the characters who fight in the Civil War airport sequence have no deep vested interest in the actual conflict. They are only there for commercial reasons to sell crossover hype. The characters in DOFP, even the obscure ones like Sunspot and Blink have a strong purpose in the plot, they are fighting for their very survival, to prevent their extermination.
Antman, Black Widow, Vision, Hawkeye and Spiderman in CIVIL WAR, have very little to do with any accords debate or capturing Bucky. They aren't involved in some years/generational long battle. There is no deep division that's been building for years. They are purely there for non-essential reasons therefore the stakes are diluted and that is what the narrator in the video meant by comparing Civil Wars world building and stakes compared to the Xmen.
The Civil War story only needed Stark, Cap, Black Panther and Bucky. The added extras provide no further depth to the story because they are irrelevant to the plot making the ''crossover world building'' a pointless exercise, in-name only. The added extras in X-men all show different angles of their stories in the larger framework of the mutant oppressing world which has been built for decades. Dude, I NEVER much cared for the X-Men. The guy in the video said the X-Men had REAL STAKES because they had to pick sides as a part of their lives as mutants It never spoke to me. The mutant stuff felt like a substitute for the racial strife of the 60s, but incredibly more shallow, like they couldn't actually address Civil Rights in the early 60s in a comic book. It has always felt cheap, like its trying to make me care about a knockoff product. So #1. THESE ARE FICTIONAL CHARACTERS. WHAT FRICKEN "REAL STAKES"? All they have is make me feel about the characters & the whole Xmen world feels cheap as crap to me. I CARED when Nighthawk died. I CARED when Mar-vell died. The only X-Man I really cared about they never knew how to use. Chris Claremont & John Byrne were supposed to be SO DAMNED AMAZING, but the book always felt cheap & shallow to me. Like the creative team felt IT WAS MAKING SUCH A BIG STATEMENT ALL THE TIME. Pretentious as hell On the other hand, I have read Captain America for as far back as I remember. (My sister read X-Men. I don't think the 60s team did much for me. They didn't really do squat with Angel, either). I CARE about the character. He SPEAKS to me. Tony Stark is prima dona. Bucky, screwed over by Hydra, taken out of deep freeze as they chose, mind wiped as they chose, had been a good guy. They took that from him. Basically stripped EVERYTHING from him down to his very identity. Cap had faith that good man remained somewhere in there. So SORRY Captain America: Civil War speaks to me more than any Xmen story ever has. It is a battle for a man's identity who no one else has any faith in. The divide is those who accept Cap's judgement vs those that don't care about justice. Okay, but apart from Chris Evans making you feel funny in your tummy, how does the character "speak" to you? Yikes. Secondly, even though you dislike X-Men by virtue of being too old AND too old-fashioned to understand its appeal, at least give yourself a shred of credibility by conceding that there is more depth , substance, and dimensionality in the premise of ANY and EVERY X-Men story than every single cheesy, one-note Captain America storyline. Your arguments would be stronger that way.
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Post by merh on Oct 28, 2018 22:35:56 GMT
Dude, I NEVER much cared for the X-Men. The guy in the video said the X-Men had REAL STAKES because they had to pick sides as a part of their lives as mutants It never spoke to me. The mutant stuff felt like a substitute for the racial strife of the 60s, but incredibly more shallow, like they couldn't actually address Civil Rights in the early 60s in a comic book. It has always felt cheap, like its trying to make me care about a knockoff product. So #1. THESE ARE FICTIONAL CHARACTERS. WHAT FRICKEN "REAL STAKES"? All they have is make me feel about the characters & the whole Xmen world feels cheap as crap to me. I CARED when Nighthawk died. I CARED when Mar-vell died. The only X-Man I really cared about they never knew how to use. Chris Claremont & John Byrne were supposed to be SO DAMNED AMAZING, but the book always felt cheap & shallow to me. Like the creative team felt IT WAS MAKING SUCH A BIG STATEMENT ALL THE TIME. Pretentious as hell On the other hand, I have read Captain America for as far back as I remember. (My sister read X-Men. I don't think the 60s team did much for me. They didn't really do squat with Angel, either). I CARE about the character. He SPEAKS to me. Tony Stark is prima dona. Bucky, screwed over by Hydra, taken out of deep freeze as they chose, mind wiped as they chose, had been a good guy. They took that from him. Basically stripped EVERYTHING from him down to his very identity. Cap had faith that good man remained somewhere in there. So SORRY Captain America: Civil War speaks to me more than any Xmen story ever has. It is a battle for a man's identity who no one else has any faith in. The divide is those who accept Cap's judgement vs those that don't care about justice. Okay, but apart from Chris Evans making you feel funny in your tummy, how does the character "speak" to you? Yikes. He is a decent man trying to do the right thing. Its not always easy, but he does it. So I was 3 yrs old. I was 2 when Thor appeared in Marvel Comics. So incarnation of Cap I am familiar with was introduced 6 months after your precious X-Men. Cap is a man standing up for what's right Like my favorite story where a nazi group wants to parade down the main street of a town. The locals expect Cap to agree with them to shut it down, but Cap says they have the right to parade according to the first amendment & the others have the right to peacefully counterprotest. So outdated, right?
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NormanClature
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Post by NormanClature on Nov 14, 2018 22:59:58 GMT
Seen a this Youtube video by Vox which was trending pretty high yesterday (and still is), but basically saying how the MCU world building is not very well constructed. It has gathered 1 million + views and a big reaction. Its just under 10 mins long but I recommend starting from minute 4 onwards, as the first 4 minutes is jus Marvel comics publication history. Basically the narrator is saying that the MCU's cross over and world building is very shallow and superficial to the point it feels empty without any real tangibility. He highlights that a lot of the so called crossover potential is only limited to passing references of characters in the various individual solo films. For example Hank Pym mentioning Stark in Antman for a few seconds then forgetting about him for the remaining duration of the movie. Or Spiderman in Homecoming mocking the criminals wearing Avenger masks. ''The universe is only as deep as some of its merchandise'' . There are multiple other examples littered throughout many MCU movies but the video says all this just creates hype for crossovers, not actual universe building or good storytelling to create said universe. ''The MCU has no rules beyond corporate ownership''. The narrator goes onto say if you added Aquaman to Infinity War no one would notice. Conversely if you add Hawkeye to Justice League no one would care either. This is because the DCEU has also the same mechanics of world building as the MCU the video goes onto say. That Wonder Woman clip of her opening emails lasts for a few seconds, and this is totally forgotten about for the rest of the movie. The DCEU has the same problems in building effective intertwined universes just as the MCU does. The video then goes onto point out 1 comic franchise that does achieve this aspect in the right way: the X-men movie franchise. ''Every character, human and mutant has taken sides in a generations long battle, with real stakes unlike Marvels Civil War''
''This allows decade jumping and tonal experimentation shifts but with deep integration to the X-men mythology.''A good example is the X-men cameo at the mansion in Deadpool 2. Now on the surface it would seem like this is very similar to something like Captain Americas cameo on a gym video in Homecoming. Both last a few seconds and provide a good laugh for the audience. Unlike the throway Cap cameo, it is more believable for Deadpool 2 sharing a world with Xmen because Wade Wlsons story is still deeply entrenched in X-men lore. The tone of Deadpool 2 may be completely opposite of the mainline films, but the character still inhabits the same world that other X-men have/do exist because the world building is more than just superficial name drops, Easter egg nods or merchandise fan servicing. Thoughts on the video? Bait.
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