|
Post by coldenhaulfield on Nov 18, 2018 20:02:57 GMT
I don't think everyday people who sort of aren't fans of the movie business realize how big that Disney tent is. I think most associate "Disney" strictly with stuff they grew up with, like Frozen or Pixar, and then to a lesser extent the other big IPs like Marvel and SW. I remember there being this common refrain going around comic shops I frequented circa 2012 that the MCU was good in spite of Disney, or because they'd managed to acquire some degree of latitude. That's mostly fallen away now, it seems. ETA: or at least, I've heard it a lot less. Dude, everybody knew that Miramax, Dimension, and Touchstone belonged to Disney. "I remember there being this common refrain going around comic shops I frequented circa 2012 that the MCU was good in spite of Disney," Sounds like comic book fans are salty that the Mouse is basically the house in town bringing the goods. I knew about Miramax, but not the other two. Well, it was like six years ago, back when I was still buying floppies. And those guys don't represent "comic book fans." These were, like, the guys who were literally always at the shop when I went. Dudes who presumably sat there for hours bullshitting, who didn't work there. So -- a certain Type of Fan, if you will. I didn't really spend a shit-ton of time down there; the guys knew me by name and would grab my pull books pretty much when I walked in. I would usually do a quick cruise past the new stuff, making sure to check out the Spider- and X-books in detail, buy my stuff, and bounce.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2018 20:05:28 GMT
Dude, everybody knew that Miramax, Dimension, and Touchstone belonged to Disney. "I remember there being this common refrain going around comic shops I frequented circa 2012 that the MCU was good in spite of Disney," Sounds like comic book fans are salty that the Mouse is basically the house in town bringing the goods. I knew about Miramax, but not the other two. Well, it was like six years ago, back when I was still buying floppies. And those guys don't represent "comic book fans." These were, like, the guys who were literally always at the shop when I went. Dudes who presumably sat there for hours bullshitting, who didn't work there. So -- a certain Type of Fan, if you will. I didn't really spend a shit-ton of time down there; the guys knew me by name and would grab my pull books pretty much when I walked in. I would usually do a quick cruise past the new stuff, making sure to check out the Spider- and X-books in detail, buy my stuff, and bounce. Yea, sure you didn't. The type of fan who'll read the comics and not buy them, right?
|
|
|
Post by coldenhaulfield on Nov 18, 2018 20:07:06 GMT
I knew about Miramax, but not the other two. Well, it was like six years ago, back when I was still buying floppies. And those guys don't represent "comic book fans." These were, like, the guys who were literally always at the shop when I went. Dudes who presumably sat there for hours bullshitting, who didn't work there. So -- a certain Type of Fan, if you will. I didn't really spend a shit-ton of time down there; the guys knew me by name and would grab my pull books pretty much when I walked in. I would usually do a quick cruise past the new stuff, making sure to check out the Spider- and X-books in detail, buy my stuff, and bounce. Yea, sure you didn't. The type of fan who'll read the comics and not buy them, right? Nah, I had a pretty long pull list.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2018 20:07:23 GMT
Guys. Guys. If you look at Power Ranger's original post he clearly refers to the word WAFFLE. Not the F bomb. And that word has been used! In Iron Man 3 Jarvis tells Stark that he had gluten free WAFFLES™ for breakfast! So there you have it! The MCU is mature! Agreed, more or less. It has its moments, but for the most part they're general audience kids movies. There's probably a too young, but none of them have a too old, which is great if part of why you enjoy them is because you're young at heart. To give a serious reply- I don't think swearing or violence, or even sexual content make movies mature. It's all about solid character arcs, good story telling and deeper themes. By these standards I'd say that Civil War is the most "mature" MCU movie because of the personal stakes and complex character motives. That said, there's nothing wrong a fun heroes v aliens movie like The Avengers or a light hearted action comedy like Ant Man. I'd personally prefer more entires like Civil War, but they don't all need to follow that path.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2018 20:19:21 GMT
Agreed, more or less. It has its moments, but for the most part they're general audience kids movies. There's probably a too young, but none of them have a too old, which is great if part of why you enjoy them is because you're young at heart. To give a serious reply- I don't think swearing or violence, or even sexual content make movies mature. It's all about solid character arcs, good story telling and deeper themes. By these standards I'd say that Civil War is the most "mature" MCU movie because of the personal stakes and complex character motives. That said, there's nothing wrong a fun heroes v aliens movie like The Avengers or a light hearted action comedy like Ant Man. I'd personally prefer more entires like Civil War, but they don't all need to follow that path. I agree. I like the Captain Americas because they touch on a soldier's life after war and what to do without one. Which are good concepts worth telling stories about. Then Civil War starts wrestling with regulation, government oversight, and how the plot pushes the characters into taking the sides they were probably already likely to take.
I don't think swearing and violence help mature a story the same way that storytelling does. It doesn't bother me at all it's light on swearing and whatever else gives moves their own unique edge because if I want swearing and violence, there's a movie in my collection for that too. I mean it's not like any one movie has it all.
|
|
|
Post by justanaveragejoe on Nov 18, 2018 20:22:40 GMT
|
|
|
Post by charzhino on Nov 18, 2018 20:22:51 GMT
^ Weirdraptor still cant grasp that the point of swearing has no relation on a films quality. You're the one implying that a film's quality is tied directly to how much people swear. I'm the one espousing that it's unneeded and bears no relation to a film's quality. Nice deflection, though. Also, you missed some apostrophes in your contracted words. Sorry, but you don't get to act like the sophisticated one when you were declaring the MCU to be of less quality for refraining from using the "F" word yesterday. Also, did you look up those studios I listed? No ones implying anything, your just assuming. I think X2 is better than every single MCU film but it doesnt have any explicit swears, so that negates your assumption. All i said was Fox Xmen films are aimed at more maturer audiences than Disneys MCU; one of the many reasons being that they use the permitted F word once in their movies. Where am I saying the Xmen are better quality based on that argument? Miramax, acquired by Disney 1993 then sold to beIN group 2010. Pulp Fiction was released under Disneys parentage. Touchstone pictures Touchstone pictures All interesting stuff that I didnt know. Still, doesn't take away that Lucas Film and Marvel Studios are flagship subsidiaries of Walt Disney and need to fit into Disneys traditional model of family friendly content. They can leave the mature stuff to distribution labels like Touchstone and Miramax because those films wont have as much exposure and use non-Disney titles. Is it any coincidence that Indiana Jones, Star wars and MCU post-Avengers became "Disneyfyed"?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2018 20:30:34 GMT
You're the one implying that a film's quality is tied directly to how much people swear. I'm the one espousing that it's unneeded and bears no relation to a film's quality. Nice deflection, though. Also, you missed some apostrophes in your contracted words. Sorry, but you don't get to act like the sophisticated one when you were declaring the MCU to be of less quality for refraining from using the "F" word yesterday. Also, did you look up those studios I listed? No ones implying anything, your just assuming. I think X2 is better than every single MCU film but it doesnt have any explicit swears, so that negates your assumption. All i said was Fox Xmen films are aimed at more maturer audiences than Disneys MCU; one of the many reasons being that they use the permitted F word once in their movies. Where am I saying the Xmen are better quality based on that argument? Miramax, acquired by Disney 1993 then sold to beIN group 2010. Pulp Fiction was released under Disneys parentage. Touchstone pictures Touchstone picturesAll interesting stuff that I didnt know. Still, doesn't take away that Lucas Film and Marvel Studios are flagship subsidiaries of Walt Disney and need to fit into Disneys traditional model of family friendly content. They can leave the mature stuff to distribution labels like Touchstone and Miramax because those films wont have as much exposure and use non-Disney titles. Is it any coincidence that Indiana Jones, Star wars and MCU post-Avengers became "Disneyfyed"? "No ones implying anything," yeah, because you're saying it right to my face. "I think X2 is better than every single MCU film but it doesnt have any explicit swears, so that negates your assumption." Not really. "All i said was Fox Xmen films are aimed at more maturer audiences than Disneys MCU; one of the many reasons being that they use the permitted F word once in their movies. Where am I saying the Xmen are better quality based on that argument?" And you are demonstratively wrong. "All interesting stuff that I didnt know. Still, doesn't take away that Lucas Film and Marvel Studios are flagship subsidiaries of Walt Disney and need to fit into Disneys traditional model of family friendly content." Newsflash: No Star Wars film prior to Episode VII was ever more violence, crass or dark than Disney would allow. Newsflash: Most comic book movies didn't exceed that threshold before the Disney buyout, either. "They can leave the mature stuff to distribution labels like Touchstone and Miramax because those films wont have as much exposure and use non-Disney titles. Is it any coincidence that Indiana Jones, Star wars and MCU post-Avengers became "Disneyfyed"? " Indiana Jones and Star Wars were ALWAYS "Disneydied." And Post-Avengers MCU is no less dark than Pre-Avengers MCU. In fact, it's actually darker.
|
|
|
Post by charzhino on Nov 18, 2018 20:44:55 GMT
"No ones implying anything," yeah, because you're saying it right to my face. "I think X2 is better than every single MCU film but it doesnt have any explicit swears, so that negates your assumption." Not really. "All i said was Fox Xmen films are aimed at more maturer audiences than Disneys MCU; one of the many reasons being that they use the permitted F word once in their movies. Where am I saying the Xmen are better quality based on that argument?" And you are demonstratively wrong. Read this carefully. Xmen movies are for more mature audiences because they push the boundaries for PG13 certification relative to the MCU. This reason alone does not mean they are better quality than the MCU (even though I think they are for a myriad of other reasons). It just means their core target audience is higher in age. Got it? This is going beyond the scope of this thread so I wont respond fully and because its a matter of opinion. But a simple answer to "Post-Avengers MCU is darker" statement - Guardian's of the Galaxy (2014 Director James Gunn)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2018 21:00:26 GMT
"No ones implying anything," yeah, because you're saying it right to my face. "I think X2 is better than every single MCU film but it doesnt have any explicit swears, so that negates your assumption." Not really. "All i said was Fox Xmen films are aimed at more maturer audiences than Disneys MCU; one of the many reasons being that they use the permitted F word once in their movies. Where am I saying the Xmen are better quality based on that argument?" And you are demonstratively wrong. Read this carefully. Xmen movies are for more mature audiences because they push the boundaries for PG13 certification relative to the MCU. This reason alone does not mean they are better quality than the MCU (even though I think they are for a myriad of other reasons). It just means their core target audience is higher in age. Got it? This is going beyond the scope of this thread so I wont respond fully and because its a matter of opinion. But a simple answer to "Post-Avengers MCU is darker" statement - Guardian's of the Galaxy (2014 Director James Gunn) No, they're for edgelord audiences who think swearing is cool. No, the core audiences for both are the same. "But a simple answer to "Post-Avengers MCU is darker" statement - Guardian's of the Galaxy (2014 Director James Gunn)" Ah, yes, the film that juxtaposes its rather dark subject matter behind humor, metaphorically being like its leading characters, most of whom mask their deeply scarred psyches behind goofy or smart-alecky personas. Bad example for you to use. Also, Captain America: Winter Soldier, Avengers: Age of Ultron, Captain America: Civil War, Black Panther, and Infinity War. All of which you conveniently didn't mention.
|
|
|
Post by coldenhaulfield on Nov 18, 2018 21:04:25 GMT
Read this carefully. Xmen movies are for more mature audiences because they push the boundaries for PG13 certification relative to the MCU. This reason alone does not mean they are better quality than the MCU (even though I think they are for a myriad of other reasons). It just means their core target audience is higher in age. Got it? This is going beyond the scope of this thread so I wont respond fully and because its a matter of opinion. But a simple answer to "Post-Avengers MCU is darker" statement - Guardian's of the Galaxy (2014 Director James Gunn) No, they're for edgelord audiences who think swearing is cool. No, the core audiences for both are the same. "But a simple answer to "Post-Avengers MCU is darker" statement - Guardian's of the Galaxy (2014 Director James Gunn)" Ah, yes, the film that juxtaposes its rather dark subject matter behind humor, metaphorically being like its leading characters, most of whom mask their deeply scarred psyches behind goofy or smart-alecky personas. Bad example for you to use. Also, Captain America: Winter Soldier, Avengers: Age of Ultron, Captain America: Civil War, Black Panther, and Infinity War. All of which you conveniently didn't mention. You left out the part where there was an entire planetary surface covered in skulls and bones. I don't know why Guardians 2 is the one that's derided for being "too light-hearted." The first one, you might have a case. But...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2018 21:11:31 GMT
No, they're for edgelord audiences who think swearing is cool. No, the core audiences for both are the same. "But a simple answer to "Post-Avengers MCU is darker" statement - Guardian's of the Galaxy (2014 Director James Gunn)" Ah, yes, the film that juxtaposes its rather dark subject matter behind humor, metaphorically being like its leading characters, most of whom mask their deeply scarred psyches behind goofy or smart-alecky personas. Bad example for you to use. Also, Captain America: Winter Soldier, Avengers: Age of Ultron, Captain America: Civil War, Black Panther, and Infinity War. All of which you conveniently didn't mention. You left out the part where there was an entire planetary surface covered in skulls and bones. I don't know why Guardians 2 is the one that's derided for being "too light-hearted." The first one, you might have a case. But... He'd have just blown me off because of the humor also present in Guardians 2. Yes, the revelation that Ego had been killing all his other children when they failed to manifest powers was quite, um... Chilling.
|
|
|
Post by Grabthar's Hammer on Nov 18, 2018 21:18:14 GMT
Has the MCU said "shit"? I feel like they say it in Guardians of the Galaxy which is odd considering those movies seem like the ones most geared towards a younger audience.
Ohhhh and Tony said it in Age of Ultron. That's when Steve says "Language".
|
|
|
Post by coldenhaulfield on Nov 18, 2018 21:20:05 GMT
You left out the part where there was an entire planetary surface covered in skulls and bones. I don't know why Guardians 2 is the one that's derided for being "too light-hearted." The first one, you might have a case. But... He'd have just blown me off because of the humor also present in Guardians 2. Yes, the revelation that Ego had been killing all his other children when they failed to manifest powers was quite, um... Chilling. It's fucked. Ego's vision for the -- for all of reality is incontrovertibly darker than Thanos's and lacking any of the philosophical elegance. The only reason I suggested Dormammu as possibly more powerful in another thread is that he is inherently malevolent/demonic whereas I suppose you could make the most cynical argument ("Resistance is futile"?) for Ego and pass it off as "moral objectivism."
|
|
|
Post by Grabthar's Hammer on Nov 18, 2018 21:22:19 GMT
This is going beyond the scope of this thread so I wont respond fully and because its a matter of opinion. But a simple answer to "Post-Avengers MCU is darker" statement - Guardian's of the Galaxy (2014 Director James Gunn)
Weirdly enough, Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 is "darker" than the original when you think about it. It just gets hidden under all the silly jokes.
|
|
|
Post by coldenhaulfield on Nov 18, 2018 21:31:51 GMT
This is going beyond the scope of this thread so I wont respond fully and because its a matter of opinion. But a simple answer to "Post-Avengers MCU is darker" statement - Guardian's of the Galaxy (2014 Director James Gunn)
Weirdly enough, Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 is "darker" than the original when you think about it. It just gets hidden under all the silly jokes.
It's WAY darker. And it deepens and broadens the characters and their backstories. And it pays off shit you didn't even expect it to pay off. And the stakes are way higher. And the dialogue is better. And Kurt Russell's in it. And the music is better. But I digress.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2018 21:36:52 GMT
He'd have just blown me off because of the humor also present in Guardians 2. Yes, the revelation that Ego had been killing all his other children when they failed to manifest powers was quite, um... Chilling. It's fucked. Ego's vision for the -- for all of reality is incontrovertibly darker than Thanos's and lacking any of the philosophical elegance. The only reason I suggested Dormammu as possibly more powerful in another thread is that he is inherently malevolent/demonic whereas I suppose you could make the most cynical argument ("Resistance is futile"?) for Ego and pass it off as "moral objectivism." Horrifying to the nth degree. Enough to even freak out a pair of sisters who think they've seen it all (Gamora and Nebula). Dormammu is like one of the Great Old Ones of Lovecraft's writing, except the stars have now aligned and no steam boat is going to put him back to sleep. Thanos is, oh, there are a few things I could compare him with. The Old Testament God right around the time of Noah's flood. A nature god from just about any religion. His methods fall perfectly in line with the Greek gods. Seriously, if you took the basic outline of "Infinity War" and substitute everything and everyone in it for a rough equivalent that could be found in Greek mythology, it'd basically exactly like one of their legends. Ego is the worst part of Randian philosophy, no doubt. Good eye there.
|
|
|
Post by coldenhaulfield on Nov 18, 2018 21:38:24 GMT
It's fucked. Ego's vision for the -- for all of reality is incontrovertibly darker than Thanos's and lacking any of the philosophical elegance. The only reason I suggested Dormammu as possibly more powerful in another thread is that he is inherently malevolent/demonic whereas I suppose you could make the most cynical argument ("Resistance is futile"?) for Ego and pass it off as "moral objectivism." Horrifying to the nth degree. Enough to even freak out a pair of sisters who think they've seen it all (Gamora and Nebula). Dormammu is like one of the Great Old Ones of Lovecraft's writing, except the stars have now aligned and no steam boat is going to put him back to sleep. Thanos is, oh, there are a few things I could compare him with. The Old Testament God right around the time of Noah's flood. A nature god from just about any religion. His methods fall perfectly in line with the Greek gods. Seriously, if you took the basic outline of "Infinity War" and substitute everything and everyone in it for a rough equivalent that could be found in Greek mythology, it'd basically exactly like one of their legends. Ego is the worst part of Randian philosophy, no doubt. Good eye there. To clarify: I think I conflated "darker" and "more powerful" above, but they happen to be interchangeable in this instance. ETA: as relates to Dormammu/Ego/Thanos.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2018 21:39:45 GMT
Horrifying to the nth degree. Enough to even freak out a pair of sisters who think they've seen it all (Gamora and Nebula). Dormammu is like one of the Great Old Ones of Lovecraft's writing, except the stars have now aligned and no steam boat is going to put him back to sleep. Thanos is, oh, there are a few things I could compare him with. The Old Testament God right around the time of Noah's flood. A nature god from just about any religion. His methods fall perfectly in line with the Greek gods. Seriously, if you took the basic outline of "Infinity War" and substitute everything and everyone in it for a rough equivalent that could be found in Greek mythology, it'd basically exactly like one of their legends. Ego is the worst part of Randian philosophy, no doubt. Good eye there. To clarify: I think I conflated "darker" and "more powerful" above, but they happen to be interchangeable in this instance. ETA: as relates to Dormammu/Ego/Thanos. I know.
|
|
|
Post by charzhino on Nov 18, 2018 21:41:22 GMT
This is going beyond the scope of this thread so I wont respond fully and because its a matter of opinion. But a simple answer to "Post-Avengers MCU is darker" statement - Guardian's of the Galaxy (2014 Director James Gunn)
Weirdly enough, Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 is "darker" than the original when you think about it. It just gets hidden under all the silly jokes.
It is, at least the villain isnt defeated by a dance off.
|
|