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Post by charzhino on Nov 21, 2018 22:56:04 GMT
No I told you metrics like rotten tomatoes critics are NOT reliable in this age of SJW mania and the general decline of cinema. And box office is not a meaningful figure either. Today, venom just outgrossed every Xmen movie ever released including Deadpool. Does that mean Venom is better than DOFP/Logan? Hell no, just shows dumbed down films usually get the most people watching them because they are easy to watch, like MCU flicks. The metrics Summers gave are what you should be judging films quality with, not biased critics and misleading box office figures. So what were you telling others when ‘A Wrinkle in Time’ got pitiful reviews? I need to hear this. A wrinkle in time isnt keeping cinemas lifeline from flatlining.
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Post by Skaathar on Nov 21, 2018 22:58:27 GMT
Right. Because apparently your opinion is a better measure of a movie's success than a combination of high BO returns and favorable audience/critical reception. Sure dude, whatever you say. Opinion based on evidence. story telling cast technicality depth themes director screenplay Can all be analysed and materialised. Otherwise according to your logic, someone can say Howard the duck is a better made film than Shawshank Redemption. Opinion based on evidence is still just an opinion. I can look at the exact same criteria you just listed and immediately come up with a few MCU movies that trump DOFP in those. Are you saying your opinion is more valid than mine? In the end, for summers8 (or you) to claim that DOFP is better than any MCU movie and claim that as fact, you'll need to back that up with something other than your own opinion. Because based on a whole bunch of measurable data that we have out there (including quite a number of people's opnions as well) then there are a number of MCU movies better than DOFP.
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Post by justanaveragejoe on Nov 21, 2018 23:03:12 GMT
based it on good film making concept. you know. story, acting and performances, visual effect (piratical effect), themes, depth, directing, screen play and impact. remember when DOFP came out and everyone called it the best comic drama since tdk? as said always poor winter solider, the one time mcu tried to do something serious and grown was easily outclassed by DOFP.
XMEN needs the mcu huh? be honest with yourself how can this be when mcu would never even have made DOFP? since DOFP will be seen as to dark, complex, serious and grown up for their brand.
with this new rules in place, maybe it is time for everyone to be more honest and truthful.
There is little use in talking about film concept with MCU fanatics, they dont understand the science behind it. These are the people who say guardian's of the galaxy has thematic depth, IW is a great screenplay, Civil War a masterpiece and black panther being an artistic film and supporting it for best oscar picture no less. You cant reason with people if they have those delusions And what gives you the right to call us delusional for liking a certain film franchise you despise? You're basically saying we're stupid for thinking Guardians of the Galaxy has thematic depth, (which it does). If you take your hate goggles off, you would know despite the film's comedic moments, it deals with loss, betrayal, and learning to trust others. IW may have a fine screenplay, but certainly not the best in the MCU, and Civil War is a masterpiece compared to BvS for example. And Black Panther is no arthouse flick, but has some artistic filmmaking in it thanks to the genius of Ryan Coogler.
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Post by justanaveragejoe on Nov 21, 2018 23:06:47 GMT
So which metric are you using to conclude that no MCU movie outclasses DOFP? Are you basing this all on your own opinion? based it on good film making concept. you know. story, acting and performances, visual effect (piratical effect), themes, depth, directing, screen play and impact. remember when DOFP came out and everyone called it the best comic drama since tdk? as said always poor winter solider, the one time mcu tried to do something serious and grown was easily outclassed by DOFP.
XMEN needs the mcu huh? be honest with yourself how can this be when mcu would never even have made DOFP? since DOFP will be seen as to dark, complex, serious and grown up for their brand.
with this new rules in place, maybe it is time for everyone to be more honest and truthful.
I never met anyone who called DOFP the best comic book movie since The Dark Knight. Unless you count the monkeys in your head, they don't count as everyone.
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Post by blockbusted on Nov 21, 2018 23:32:09 GMT
There is little use in talking about film concept with MCU fanatics, they dont understand the science behind it. These are the people who say guardian's of the galaxy has thematic depth, IW is a great screenplay, Civil War a masterpiece and black panther being an artistic film and supporting it for best oscar picture no less. You cant reason with people if they have those delusions And what gives you the right to call us delusional for liking a certain film franchise you despise? You're basically saying we're stupid for thinking Guardians of the Galaxy has thematic depth, (which it does). If you take your hate goggles off, you would know despite the film's comedic moments, it deals with loss, betrayal, and learning to trust others. IW may have a fine screenplay, but certainly not the best in the MCU, and Civil War is a masterpiece compared to BvS for example. And Black Panther is no arthouse flick, but has some artistic filmmaking in it thanks to the genius of Ryan Coogler. And I’ve counted at least 2 Oscar-winning directors who actually PRAISED ‘Guardians of the Galaxy’. Should they be called as stupid now?
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Post by blockbusted on Nov 21, 2018 23:33:45 GMT
So what were you telling others when ‘A Wrinkle in Time’ got pitiful reviews? I need to hear this. A wrinkle in time isnt keeping cinemas lifeline from flatlining. ‘Ghostbusters: Answer the Call’ doesn’t either, and yet, it still got unusually high reviews, most likely because Sony created a hostile environment for negative reviews to exist for that film.
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Post by dazz on Nov 22, 2018 2:03:09 GMT
based it on good film making concept. you know. story, acting and performances, visual effect (piratical effect), themes, depth, directing, screen play and impact. remember when DOFP came out and everyone called it the best comic drama since tdk? as said always poor winter solider, the one time mcu tried to do something serious and grown was easily outclassed by DOFP.
XMEN needs the mcu huh? be honest with yourself how can this be when mcu would never even have made DOFP? since DOFP will be seen as to dark, complex, serious and grown up for their brand.
with this new rules in place, maybe it is time for everyone to be more honest and truthful.
There is little use in talking about film concept with MCU fanatics, they dont understand the science behind it. These are the people who say guardian's of the galaxy has thematic depth, IW is a great screenplay, Civil War a masterpiece and black panther being an artistic film and supporting it for best oscar picture no less. You cant reason with people if they have those delusions You do know what concept actually means right?
concept /ˈkɒnsɛpt/
noun noun: concept; plural noun: concepts
an abstract idea. "structuralism is a difficult concept" synonyms: idea, notion, conception, abstraction, conceptualization; More theory, hypothesis, postulation;
belief, conviction, opinion, view, image, impression, picture "the concept of society as an organic entity"
•a plan or intention. "the centre has kept firmly to its original concept"
•an idea or invention to help sell or publicize a commodity. "a new concept in corporate hospitality"
concept = idea or opinion ie something not based in actual fact but personal beliefs or thinking, as such good film making concepts, concepts as in multiple as they tend to also vary can depend on the type of film you are making, Godfather, Back To The Future, Jaws, Jurassic Park, Schindlers List are all considered great movies, but all vary in all the metrics Sumbum stated because they aren't trying to be the same movie, the MCU are not trying to be like the X-Men films, Logan isn't trying to be like Deadpool and Deadpool isn't trying to be like Fan4stic which isn't trying to be like Origins, widely different films all from the same studio in the same genre, some worked great others failed miserably, Sumbum and yourself simply think because the MCU concept isn't one that appeals to you means they are bad, but the majority of people including critics love them.
As a brand the MCU has been growing, now can bad films have huge audiences? yes but they also tend to dwindle after repeated bad instalments, 20 films in and the MCU has a growing fanbase, one that has grown exponentially since it started, X-Men however not so much in fact Deadpool aside and the domestic audience has actually decreased, no Fox-Men film outside of Deadpool 1 & 2 have outsold any of the 00's trilogy, which by the way grew the fanbase domestically, you want a meteric the north American audience don't care about X-Men like they used ta !!
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Post by charzhino on Nov 22, 2018 9:14:20 GMT
Opinion based on evidence. story telling cast technicality depth themes director screenplay Can all be analysed and materialised. Otherwise according to your logic, someone can say Howard the duck is a better made film than Shawshank Redemption. Opinion based on evidence is still just an opinion. I can look at the exact same criteria you just listed and immediately come up with a few MCU movies that trump DOFP in those. Are you saying your opinion is more valid than mine? In the end, for summers8 (or you) to claim that DOFP is better than any MCU movie and claim that as fact, you'll need to back that up with something other than your own opinion. Because based on a whole bunch of measurable data that we have out there (including quite a number of people's opnions as well) then there are a number of MCU movies better than DOFP. Some opinions are better than others because they have weighted evidence to support them. Saying LeBron James or Lionel Messi is better than the average basketball/football player is a more credible opinion to hold than the reverse. The only metric that can give the best judgement on art/artists including movies is time, as many classic movies are either under appreciated or overhyped when they release but get better with time like Casablanca and 2001 Space Oddesy. So we'll see in 40 years time which MCU comic book films are remembered as truly great. We've already seen how the first Iron Man, after 10 years is still widely regarded as great and I suspect its reputation will hold or even increase in another 20-30 years. Lets wait 10 years to see if Black Panther, Ragnarok, Guardians, Antman, Spiderman Homecoming, Civil War are considered in the same manner. I suspect not. And those parameters summers8 listed, not all are pure opinion based. Technical aspects like cinematography is not. X-men First Class cinematography is observably better than in Black Panther. The depth of storytelling in First Class is more fleshed out than Black Panther, just count the scenes and minutes dedicated to building the narrative.Acting performances in First Class are greater than Black Panthers leads, just analyse and compare the different ranges/tones of acting. Count on your fingers how many themes are present in Black Panther compared to First Class and how much screen time is allotted in developing those themes.
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Post by justanaveragejoe on Nov 22, 2018 9:33:27 GMT
Opinion based on evidence is still just an opinion. I can look at the exact same criteria you just listed and immediately come up with a few MCU movies that trump DOFP in those. Are you saying your opinion is more valid than mine? In the end, for summers8 (or you) to claim that DOFP is better than any MCU movie and claim that as fact, you'll need to back that up with something other than your own opinion. Because based on a whole bunch of measurable data that we have out there (including quite a number of people's opnions as well) then there are a number of MCU movies better than DOFP. Some opinions are better than others because they have weighted evidence to support them. Saying LeBron James or Lionel Messi is better than the average basketball/football player is a more credible opinion to hold than the reverse. The only metric that can give the best judgement on art/artists including movies is time, as many classic movies are either under appreciated or overhyped when they release but get better with time like Casablanca and 2001 Space Oddesy. So we'll see in 40 years time which MCU comic book films are remembered as truly great. We've already seen how the first Iron Man, after 10 years is still widely regarded as great and I suspect its reputation will hold or even increase in another 20-30 years. Lets wait 10 years to see if Black Panther, Ragnarok, Guardians, Antman, Spiderman Homecoming, Civil War are considered in the same manner. I suspect not. And those parameters summers8 listed, not all are pure opinion based. Technical aspects like cinematography is not. X-men First Class cinematography is observably better than in Black Panther. The depth of storytelling in First Class is more fleshed out than Black Panther, just count the scenes and minutes dedicated to building the narrative.Acting performances in First Class are greater than Black Panthers leads, just analyse and compare the different ranges/tones of acting. Count on your fingers how many themes are present in Black Panther compared to First Class and how much screen time is allotted in developing those themes. What makes you think those said won't be regarded as great? And Black Panther, are you serious? That movie literally put its stamp in history. The first blockbuster to feature a predominant black cast, the biggest success ever directed by a black director, and maybe just maybe, the first comic book movie to be nominated for a Best Picture Oscar. Also why compare Black Panther to X-Men: First Class? Everything you just said is reverse. The dominant opinion is that Black Panther is superior to First Class, and that includes storytelling, acting, and themes/motifs. If you said Logan, I could kind of understand, but First Class? Give me a friggin' break.
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Post by charzhino on Nov 22, 2018 9:45:53 GMT
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Post by summers8 on Nov 22, 2018 10:18:59 GMT
You'll have to excuse summers8. He has a hard time understanding the difference between opinions and facts. It's been an ongoing problem for him. Apparently, he's now trying to use the new ground rules here to imply and accuse people of lying, when really it's just a difference of opinion. He considers himself an expert on quality film-making and thinks that anyone that disagrees with him and his established set of "facts" is a liar and therefore, should be disciplined by the mods. opinions and facts.
I have an opinion that my high school teacher should not have given me an f grade despite the fact I wrote a poor essay.
my high school teacher chose to give me an F because he factually read my essay and saw how generic and void it was.
MCU fans are so hung up on opinons. wonder why they keep ignoring the loud opinions by credible film makers and long time comic fans that these mcu movies are awful and are dumbing down movies.
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Post by summers8 on Nov 22, 2018 10:37:45 GMT
Some opinions are better than others because they have weighted evidence to support them. Saying LeBron James or Lionel Messi is better than the average basketball/football player is a more credible opinion to hold than the reverse. The only metric that can give the best judgement on art/artists including movies is time, as many classic movies are either under appreciated or overhyped when they release but get better with time like Casablanca and 2001 Space Oddesy. So we'll see in 40 years time which MCU comic book films are remembered as truly great. We've already seen how the first Iron Man, after 10 years is still widely regarded as great and I suspect its reputation will hold or even increase in another 20-30 years. Lets wait 10 years to see if Black Panther, Ragnarok, Guardians, Antman, Spiderman Homecoming, Civil War are considered in the same manner. I suspect not. And those parameters summers8 listed, not all are pure opinion based. Technical aspects like cinematography is not. X-men First Class cinematography is observably better than in Black Panther. The depth of storytelling in First Class is more fleshed out than Black Panther, just count the scenes and minutes dedicated to building the narrative.Acting performances in First Class are greater than Black Panthers leads, just analyse and compare the different ranges/tones of acting. Count on your fingers how many themes are present in Black Panther compared to First Class and how much screen time is allotted in developing those themes. What makes you think those said won't be regarded as great? And Black Panther, are you serious? That movie literally put its stamp in history. The first blockbuster to feature a predominant black cast, the biggest success ever directed by a black director, and maybe just maybe, the first comic book movie to be nominated for a Best Picture Oscar. Also why compare Black Panther to X-Men: First Class? Everything you just said is reverse. The dominant opinion is that Black Panther is superior to First Class, and that includes storytelling, acting, and themes/motifs. If you said Logan, I could kind of understand, but First Class? Give me a friggin' break.
First Class has been brought up several times, the movie is a superior version of black panther. to say it is a dominant opinion black panther is better is just laughable since if you poll it anywhere and set it on a debate topic. black panther will loose..everything in black panther is in first class the only thing first class did was make it more compelling. want examples?
A. Magneto's mum death was more compelling than Killmonger's father death because magneto actually witnessed it.
1. mystique actually had character development...no female in black panther did.
2. Mcvoy/Fassbender had a more complex intellectual ideology than killmongger/black panther
3. First class had depth on it social issues. black panther did not.
4. first class had superior technicality. (this scene combine, acting, cgi, score, screenplay)
5. first class had a better villain that was actually 3 dimensional and got a poetic death
6. the cold war as the back drop theme of first class was handled in a Superior version to the viburnum theory of black panther that had no substance
7. Fassbender and Mcvoy gave stronger performances than Jordan and Boswman
Also to use black panther and oscar is beyond laughable since we know disney wants to get it by race baiting. first class would have stood more chance of Oscars than black panther. if memory serves me, there was talk that fassbender could have gotten a supporting nom from first class. if the oscars were to look at comic films, first class will stand head and shoulders over black panther as the more compelling heavier film.
as critics said of first class, it was a comic film with brains and depth. oscar like brainy movies. black panther is hardly a brain movie. if you swap the race of black panther it is thor 1. if you swap the race of first class, the movie will still be the same.
please just stop with this nonsense already.
opinions with factual evidence.
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Post by charzhino on Nov 22, 2018 10:45:51 GMT
What makes you think those said won't be regarded as great? Because their storytelling isn't particularly made to be timeless, they are dependant on movies in and around their time of release to make sense of the ''universe''. The most memorable movies within the comic book genre up to now have been more or less standalones, Dark Knight, Spiderman 2, X2, Iron Man 1. With stuff like Ragnarok, Civil War, Homecoming, even IW you will need to watch several films before to understand the situation of the story and the characters. All token gesutres and checklists. Alien isn't remembered for being great just because its the first to have a competent female action/horror lead. Dominant opinion based on what? critics who don't want to appear racist? Or audience members who only watched it because its the first black led superhero film (given the fact that it beat IW domestically in America?). Acting, storytelling, depth, themes/motifs are superior in First Class, just go watch both movies scene for scene without bias and youll see for yourself.
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Post by blockbusted on Nov 22, 2018 13:36:07 GMT
Some opinions are better than others because they have weighted evidence to support them. Saying LeBron James or Lionel Messi is better than the average basketball/football player is a more credible opinion to hold than the reverse. The only metric that can give the best judgement on art/artists including movies is time, as many classic movies are either under appreciated or overhyped when they release but get better with time like Casablanca and 2001 Space Oddesy. So we'll see in 40 years time which MCU comic book films are remembered as truly great. We've already seen how the first Iron Man, after 10 years is still widely regarded as great and I suspect its reputation will hold or even increase in another 20-30 years. Lets wait 10 years to see if Black Panther, Ragnarok, Guardians, Antman, Spiderman Homecoming, Civil War are considered in the same manner. I suspect not. And those parameters summers8 listed, not all are pure opinion based. Technical aspects like cinematography is not. X-men First Class cinematography is observably better than in Black Panther. The depth of storytelling in First Class is more fleshed out than Black Panther, just count the scenes and minutes dedicated to building the narrative.Acting performances in First Class are greater than Black Panthers leads, just analyse and compare the different ranges/tones of acting. Count on your fingers how many themes are present in Black Panther compared to First Class and how much screen time is allotted in developing those themes. What makes you think those said won't be regarded as great? And Black Panther, are you serious? That movie literally put its stamp in history. The first blockbuster to feature a predominant black cast, the biggest success ever directed by a black director, and maybe just maybe, the first comic book movie to be nominated for a Best Picture Oscar. Also why compare Black Panther to X-Men: First Class? Everything you just said is reverse. The dominant opinion is that Black Panther is superior to First Class, and that includes storytelling, acting, and themes/motifs. If you said Logan, I could kind of understand, but First Class? Give me a friggin' break. ‘X-Men: First Class’ also has another problem - it looks CHEAP in terms of just about every single production aspects.
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Post by blockbusted on Nov 22, 2018 13:39:17 GMT
You'll have to excuse summers8. He has a hard time understanding the difference between opinions and facts. It's been an ongoing problem for him. Apparently, he's now trying to use the new ground rules here to imply and accuse people of lying, when really it's just a difference of opinion. He considers himself an expert on quality film-making and thinks that anyone that disagrees with him and his established set of "facts" is a liar and therefore, should be disciplined by the mods. opinions and facts.
I have an opinion that my high school teacher should not have given me an f grade despite the fact I wrote a poor essay.
my high school teacher chose to give me an F because he factually read my essay and saw how generic and void it was.
MCU fans are so hung up on opinons. wonder why they keep ignoring the loud opinions by credible film makers and long time comic fans that these mcu movies are awful and are dumbing down movies.
Dude, you think ‘Venom’ is a high point of comic book films. Your hypocrisy can’t be more blatant than that. What are you going to say next? That ‘Fant4stic’ is somehow better than MCU films? Also, at least 2 credible filmmakers have praised at least 2 MCU films (‘Guardians of the Galaxy’ and ‘Black Panther’). If we go by your logic, they should lose all their credibilities just because they dared to praise those films.
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Post by Skaathar on Nov 22, 2018 15:15:52 GMT
Opinion based on evidence is still just an opinion. I can look at the exact same criteria you just listed and immediately come up with a few MCU movies that trump DOFP in those. Are you saying your opinion is more valid than mine? In the end, for summers8 (or you) to claim that DOFP is better than any MCU movie and claim that as fact, you'll need to back that up with something other than your own opinion. Because based on a whole bunch of measurable data that we have out there (including quite a number of people's opnions as well) then there are a number of MCU movies better than DOFP. Some opinions are better than others because they have weighted evidence to support them. Saying LeBron James or Lionel Messi is better than the average basketball/football player is a more credible opinion to hold than the reverse. The only metric that can give the best judgement on art/artists including movies is time, as many classic movies are either under appreciated or overhyped when they release but get better with time like Casablanca and 2001 Space Oddesy. So we'll see in 40 years time which MCU comic book films are remembered as truly great. We've already seen how the first Iron Man, after 10 years is still widely regarded as great and I suspect its reputation will hold or even increase in another 20-30 years. Lets wait 10 years to see if Black Panther, Ragnarok, Guardians, Antman, Spiderman Homecoming, Civil War are considered in the same manner. I suspect not. And those parameters summers8 listed, not all are pure opinion based. Technical aspects like cinematography is not. X-men First Class cinematography is observably better than in Black Panther. The depth of storytelling in First Class is more fleshed out than Black Panther, just count the scenes and minutes dedicated to building the narrative.Acting performances in First Class are greater than Black Panthers leads, just analyse and compare the different ranges/tones of acting. Count on your fingers how many themes are present in Black Panther compared to First Class and how much screen time is allotted in developing those themes. You're right, some opinions are more valid than others. And in this particular topic, my opinion is more valid than yours simply because mine is supported by data. I can provide numerous data to support my claim that there are MCU movies that are better than DOFP whereas all you do is repeat your opinion that DOFP is better than all MCU movies. You keep repeating that you're basing your opinion on specific criteria yet at the end of the day, they're still your opinion... And your opinion is not fact.
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Post by charzhino on Nov 22, 2018 15:23:16 GMT
You're right, some opinions are more valid than others. And in this particular topic, my opinion is more valid than yours simply because mine is supported by data. I can provide numerous data to support my claim that there are MCU movies that are better than DOFP whereas all you do is repeat your opinion that DOFP is better than all MCU movies. You keep repeating that you're basing your opinion on specific criteria yet at the end of the day, they're still your opinion... And your opinion is not fact. Your opinion is based on biased critics and box office receipts. Mine is based on film craft with evidence. For films that are close to each other in quality like DOFP, Iron man, Logan, Winter Solider, Dark Knight then yeh then it becomes personal opinion on which they prefer. But you will be laughed out of any serious film circles if you say, ''Black panther is better than First Class because critics loved it and it made like a billion dollars!!''
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2018 15:29:15 GMT
You're right, some opinions are more valid than others. And in this particular topic, my opinion is more valid than yours simply because mine is supported by data. I can provide numerous data to support my claim that there are MCU movies that are better than DOFP whereas all you do is repeat your opinion that DOFP is better than all MCU movies. You keep repeating that you're basing your opinion on specific criteria yet at the end of the day, they're still your opinion... And your opinion is not fact. Your opinion is based on biased critics and box office receipts. Mine is based on film craft with evidence. For films that are close to each other in quality like DOFP, Iron man, Logan, Winter Solider, Dark Knight then yeh then it becomes personal opinion on which they prefer. But you will be laughed out of any serious film circles if you say, ''Black panther is better than First Class because critics loved it and it made like a billion dollars!!'' Do you feel critics are biased when they share your opinion of a film or only when they feel differently about a film than you do?
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Post by summers8 on Nov 22, 2018 15:32:49 GMT
opinions and facts.
I have an opinion that my high school teacher should not have given me an f grade despite the fact I wrote a poor essay.
my high school teacher chose to give me an F because he factually read my essay and saw how generic and void it was.
MCU fans are so hung up on opinons. wonder why they keep ignoring the loud opinions by credible film makers and long time comic fans that these mcu movies are awful and are dumbing down movies.
Dude, you think ‘Venom’ is a high point of comic book films. Your hypocrisy can’t be more blatant than that. What are you going to say next? That ‘Fant4stic’ is somehow better than MCU films? Also, at least 2 credible filmmakers have praised at least 2 MCU films (‘Guardians of the Galaxy’ and ‘Black Panther’). If we go by your logic, they should lose all their credibilities just because they dared to praise those films. what venom did was expose the bias of critics and proof there is an agenda to tear down comic movies not made under the disney mcu factory. this is the reason people are not so hard on venom, they are fighting back.
Did I say venom was excellent? no. but at this point when bad cartoonish looking movies like mcu movies are protected by the media and critics, people are standing up for venom since venom is not as bad as the media wanted to make it out to be.
praise for black panther is ridiculous because you cant praise a movie because the cast is black.
the one person who praised gotg also thinks the comic genre will die out and will end up making an anti mcu movie once blackhawk is out.
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Post by Skaathar on Nov 22, 2018 15:39:09 GMT
You're right, some opinions are more valid than others. And in this particular topic, my opinion is more valid than yours simply because mine is supported by data. I can provide numerous data to support my claim that there are MCU movies that are better than DOFP whereas all you do is repeat your opinion that DOFP is better than all MCU movies. You keep repeating that you're basing your opinion on specific criteria yet at the end of the day, they're still your opinion... And your opinion is not fact. Your opinion is based on biased critics and box office receipts. Mine is based on film craft with evidence. For films that are close to each other in quality like DOFP, Iron man, Logan, Winter Solider, Dark Knight then yeh then it becomes personal opinion on which they prefer. But you will be laughed out of any serious film circles if you say, ''Black panther is better than First Class because critics loved it and it made like a billion dollars!!'' Forgive me if I consider the (maybe biased) opinions of professional movie critics more valid than your (clearly) biased opinion. Besides, it's not just critical reception but a combination of critical reception, box office success and high audience reception. If you find a movie where all three are stellar then that's about as good an indication you'll get that a movie is successful. And there are a number of MCU movies where all 3 of these are higher than DOFP.
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