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Post by merh on Feb 12, 2019 20:14:12 GMT
The thing that crosses my mind in all of this, if the church discriminates against LGBTQ+ by not letting them be active roles in the church themselves because of that not being ok by the bible, do they also have the same attitude towards those who have gotten divorced as Pratt says that's no ok by the bible, if the treat divorcee's the same as the LGBTQ+ members I think ok fair play to them, it's not a specific we look down on you for this but a simple we only allow those who most closely follow the guides of the bible can be more than worshippers in our church. Now if Pratt is allowed to do things for the church LGBTQ+ members cant then fuck those people, fair is fair if you say no to them you should say no to him also, or am I being way to over simplistic about all this...eh I don't care. Is divorce a sin or looked down upon in Christianity? Actually, yeah. Jesus said no to it.
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Post by merh on Feb 12, 2019 20:16:49 GMT
Her issue is his church promotes counseling gays to be straight. Its one thing to accept a straight divorced guy. It's another for them to apparently let gays practice their natural inclinations
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Post by politicidal on Feb 12, 2019 20:49:32 GMT
Her issue is his church promotes counseling gays to be straight. Its one thing to accept a straight divorced guy. It's another for them to apparently let gays practice their natural inclinations From what I’ve found, they’ve seemed to have stepped away from those practices several years ago.
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Post by faustus5 on Feb 12, 2019 20:52:51 GMT
I'm going to stop you right there, because that is completely different from what I was saying. Me: Discrimination against anyone is bad, even if the basis for your discrimination is their choice of religion. You: So you believe religion deserves special respect. You: Discrimination against anyone is bad, even if the basis for your discrimination is their choice of religion. Sorry, but that is morally simplistic and unworkable. Me: Some kinds discrimination are justified (even admirable) so long they are based on rationally objectionable traits the person has and do not infringe on that person's constitutional rights. Example: not hiring a person because of their skin color or sexual orientation is not justified, because there is no way to rationally justify that these traits are objectionable or would make the person a bad employee. Example: Calling a religious person an idiot (or gullible, or naive, or foolish) for having irrational, unsupportable beliefs is perfectly justifiable (though not terribly nice!), as their beliefs are, by and large, absurd beyond belief. This isn't bigotry, this is just understanding that some beliefs are justified and some beliefs are really quite silly and stupid. If you don't think religious beliefs deserve special respect you have to acknowledge this. Example: not hiring a religious person for an office (or acting) job is not justified, now matter how much I think their beliefs are ridiculous, because those beliefs have no bearing on their ability to do the job. BUT. . . Example: if you are hiring a biology professor to teach biology and lead a research team at your university, and in the process you discover he is a creationist who thinks the world is 6,000 years old and humans walked the Earth alongside dinosaurs, you would be justified in dropping him from consideration--in fact you would be morally and professionally required to do so, precisely because of his religious beliefs, which have obviously clouded his judgment as a scientist. It is a form of discrimination, but it is justified.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 21:58:04 GMT
As almost always, I could use less religion in the proceedings. But if that's how Chris Pratt addresses things then my hands are tied. It's thick with the iconography and platitudes but if it's how he rolls then what else is there?
It still kind of throws me for a loop that a full grown adult can be so attracted to the imagery (i.e. get them when they're young). Sometimes it seems to me like somebody got in Chris Pratt's ear, but he doesn't seem to let it interfere with work, so it's fine. I could deal without God and Jesus references or what looks like a postcard from an antique store for an apology, but for me it checks out.
It's just so tacky to look at though. It could be just thorough with the explanation but the sheep, the red text, the God of love and so forth is so extra. It's not unlike some people I know to go extra with an apology to downplay the need for it; to lay it on so thick they could almost pass for the victim.
In any event, it's fine. I don't think there's anything to worry about and I really don't want to be wrong because as I've said before, I really hope he's not becoming Mel “There is no salvation for those outside the Church” Gibson.
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Post by Skaathar on Feb 12, 2019 22:46:01 GMT
As almost always, I could use less religion in the proceedings. But if that's how Chris Pratt addresses things then my hands are tied. It's thick with the iconography and platitudes but if it's how he rolls then what else is there?
It still kind of throws me for a loop that a full grown adult can be so attracted to the imagery (i.e. get them when they're young). Sometimes it seems to me like somebody got in Chris Pratt's ear, but he doesn't seem to let it interfere with work, so it's fine. I could deal without God and Jesus references or what looks like a postcard from an antique store for an apology, but for me it checks out.
It's just so tacky to look at though. It could be just thorough with the explanation but the sheep, the red text, the God of love and so forth is so extra. It's not unlike some people I know to go extra with an apology to downplay the need for it; to lay it on so thick they could almost pass for the victim.
In any event, it's fine. I don't think there's anything to worry about and I really don't want to be wrong because as I've said before, I really hope he's not becoming Mel “There is no salvation for those outside the Church” Gibson.
Tacky I can agree with. The whole postcard thing and those big red letters and stuff didn't really help. It did make it feel a bit preachy. But like you said, it's not really big deal. We should just leave the guy in peace.
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Post by ThatGuy on Feb 13, 2019 3:14:37 GMT
Is divorce a sin or looked down upon in Christianity? Actually, yeah. Jesus said no to it. That's not saying divorce itself is bad. It's saying that leaving your wife/husband to be with someone else or breaking up someone's marriage to be with that person is bad.
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Post by summers8 on Feb 13, 2019 13:11:02 GMT
I'd prefer if Chris Pratt wasn't brain wash into a cult. I'd like to think humanity will break free from religion. tolerance is supposed to be both ways. you can disagree with homosexuality and not be a bigot. people like ellen page can't tolerate anyone who has different views on such a a complex subject as sexuality. I wonder why page only likes to go after Christians. almost every religion condemns homosexuality including Judaism and Islam, why does Hollywood only target Christians?
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Post by cricket on Feb 13, 2019 13:38:37 GMT
I'd prefer if Chris Pratt wasn't brain wash into a cult. I'd like to think humanity will break free from religion. tolerance is supposed to be both ways. you can disagree with homosexuality and not be a bigot. people like ellen page can't tolerate anyone who has different views on such a such a complex subject as sexuality. I wonder why page only likes to go after Christians. almost every religion condemns homosexuality including Judaism and Islam, why does Hollywood only target Christians? Oh my God (pun intended)! I would never ever have thought in my wildest dreams that I will be in agreement with you in something, summers8. Now, I have to eat crow and say that I couldn't agree more, very well said. Page seems very intolerant of people who don't agree with what she thinks,. However I (and everyone) can believe in and disagree with whatever I want without recurring to discrimination or bigotry. Damn, if I want to believe in Santa Claus, that's my frigging problem, while I am not affecting third parties with what I believe.
Just looking in this thread (which should be locked since this is a movie forum not a religious or morality one) people here think it is bad, crazy and inhuman to be anti-LGBTQ, but it is OK, cool, very intellectual and even necessary to be anti-Christians, anti-religion, anti-faith and even anti-free will. Talking about double standards. Wow!
Kudos.
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Post by Skaathar on Feb 13, 2019 15:04:54 GMT
tolerance is supposed to be both ways. you can disagree with homosexuality and not be a bigot. people like ellen page can't tolerate anyone who has different views on such a such a complex subject as sexuality. I wonder why page only likes to go after Christians. almost every religion condemns homosexuality including Judaism and Islam, why does Hollywood only target Christians? Oh my God (pun intended)! I would never ever have thought in my wildest dreams that I will be in agreement with you in something, summers8. Now, I have to eat crow and say that I couldn't agree more, very well said. Page seems very intolerant of people who don't agree with what she thinks,. However I (and everyone) can believe in and disagree with whatever I want without recurring to discrimination or bigotry. Damn, if I want to believe in Santa Claus, that's my frigging problem, while I am not affecting third parties with what I believe.
Just looking in this thread (which should be locked since this is a movie forum not a religious or morality one) people here think it is bad, crazy and inhuman to be anti-LGBTQ, but it is OK, cool, very intellectual and even necessary to be anti-Christians, anti-religion, anti-faith and even anti-free will. Talking about double standards. Wow!
Kudos.
Probably the very first (and only) thing summers8 said that I actually agree with.
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Post by politicidal on Feb 13, 2019 16:00:07 GMT
I'd prefer if Chris Pratt wasn't brain wash into a cult. I'd like to think humanity will break free from religion. tolerance is supposed to be both ways. you can disagree with homosexuality and not be a bigot. people like ellen page can't tolerate anyone who has different views on such a such a complex subject as sexuality. I wonder why page only likes to go after Christians. almost every religion condemns homosexuality including Judaism and Islam, why does Hollywood only target Christians? The bunny-ears lawyer is talking sense people. What’s going on?!?!
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Post by faustus5 on Feb 13, 2019 18:02:48 GMT
tolerance is supposed to be both ways. you can disagree with homosexuality and not be a bigot. No, you absolutely can't. There is no possible or conceivable way to "disagree with homosexuality" that isn't bigoted and completely, crazily, irrational. Not one. This is dirt simple to figure out. Hollywood resides in a Christian majority country. Christians are the ones trying to block progress on these issues, not Jews or Muslims. Let me know when a Muslim or Jew as prominent as Pratt associates themselves with an anti gay organization and we'll see.
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Post by kuatorises on Feb 13, 2019 18:53:52 GMT
tolerance is supposed to be both ways. you can disagree with homosexuality and not be a bigot. No, you absolutely can't. There is no possible or conceivable way to "disagree with homosexuality" that isn't bigoted and completely, crazily, irrational. Not one. This is dirt simple to figure out. Hollywood resides in a Christian majority country. Christians are the ones trying to block progress on these issues, not Jews or Muslims. Let me know when a Muslim or Jew as prominent as Pratt associates themselves with an anti gay organization and we'll see. Um....Muslims have MURDERED in the name of their religion all over the world. Easily the worst of all current religions.
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Post by summers8 on Feb 13, 2019 21:01:44 GMT
tolerance is supposed to be both ways. you can disagree with homosexuality and not be a bigot. No, you absolutely can't. There is no possible or conceivable way to "disagree with homosexuality" that isn't bigoted and completely, crazily, irrational. Not one. This is dirt simple to figure out. Hollywood resides in a Christian majority country. Christians are the ones trying to block progress on these issues, not Jews or Muslims. Let me know when a Muslim or Jew as prominent as Pratt associates themselves with an anti gay organization and we'll see. you can disagree with something and not be a bigot. part of it is having an opinion. this is a comic movie site...ask anyone to mention their top comic films, opinions will vary. does it mean it is hate? voting republican does not make you bigot to democrat and vice versa for voting democrat. saying that there is a difference between heterosexuality and homosexuality is not bigoted. it is an opinon based on some real facts. eg. only hetro couples can naturally reproduce. men and women compliment each other in many ways a man and man cant or women and women cant. another example is while all parents can show love to kids there is a fundamental feeling a child is given with a mother's love and a father's love. Christians don't have any power, jews are very powerful compared to Christians. speaking of Muslims, i feel the same way because i know there are good Muslims and dont think all Muslims should be blame for every terrorist act. I am not a muslim nor do I belief in the teachings of Mohammed. does that make me a muslim hater? what issue is being blocked? we have a separation of church and state. ellen page is one of the people who will cry separation of church and state and is the first to attack the church for going by their own belief that is clearly not affecting any part of her life.
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Post by summers8 on Feb 13, 2019 21:02:55 GMT
all u mcu fans saying u agree with me.
UM, i usually say the obvious truth. lol
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Post by faustus5 on Feb 13, 2019 22:06:59 GMT
Um....Muslims have MURDERED in the name of their religion all over the world. Easily the worst of all current religions. You'd have a point if there were any anti-gay Muslims in the USA who had political and cultural power or influence that was even remotely comparable to that of Christians. Or were Hollywood actors. (In fact, the only Muslim politicians in American that I know of are totally pro-LGBT rights.)
Context is everything. We're talking about a North American institution with gay rights advocates criticizing others who work within that institution, not world events generally. Smart advocacy picks its enemies wisely and spends most of its energy against them, and in the movie business, the bad guys on this issue are overwhelmingly Christian.
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Post by faustus5 on Feb 13, 2019 22:13:40 GMT
you can disagree with something and not be a bigot. part of it is having an opinion. No, you cannot "disagree" with gays having full and equal rights and not be a bigot. That is literally not possible. If someone were to say they "disagreed" with black people marrying white people, or having full and equal rights, their bigotry would be obvious and impossible to deny. The same goes for similar attitudes towards gays. That's one of the most idiotic, purely ignorant statements I've ever seen around here and that's saying a lot. You have no clue what the hell you are talking about. No surprise that you turned out to be an anti-Semitic racist, too. Good to know.
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Post by dazz on Feb 13, 2019 23:15:00 GMT
you can disagree with something and not be a bigot. part of it is having an opinion. No, you cannot "disagree" with gays having full and equal rights and not be a bigot. That is literally not possible. If someone were to say they "disagreed" with black people marrying white people, or having full and equal rights, their bigotry would be obvious and impossible to deny. The same goes for similar attitudes towards gays. That's one of the most idiotic, purely ignorant statements I've ever seen around here and that's saying a lot. You have no clue what the hell you are talking about. No surprise that you turned out to be an anti-Semitic racist, too. Good to know.
This time you made more sense, yes you cannot hold discriminatory beliefs or ideals and not be a bigot, but you can disagree with homosexuality as a I dunno concept and not be a bigot, bigotry requires discrimination and intolerance of something, just being like nah I don't like that and shaking your head if you see a gay couple isn't bigotry, it's stupid as fuck thinking imo but it's not bigotry, the other time you said basically unless you are pro LGBTQ+ you are a bigot which is unfair to say imo, and is itself bigotry because that is having no tolerance for any opinion but your own.
There is a difference after all in not liking or agreeing with something and thinking they are lesser than you for being or doing whatever it is you disagree with, though the likelihood of someone not liking homosexuals and not having that influence them in ways that either small or large impact and hurt people who are gay is improbable it's not impossible.
And whilst I am pro-LGBTQ+ I don't think the way to fight bigotry towards them is with bigotry towards anyone who isn't also pro-LGBTQ+ that doesn't win people over, it just makes you look as bad as the idiots imo.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2019 0:25:55 GMT
Someone NEEDS to bring this up to Archie Stamford. He's an atheist that hates religion... But he loves the MCU and everyone in it. His reaction may well prove fascinating...
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Post by Skaathar on Feb 14, 2019 0:54:28 GMT
No, you cannot "disagree" with gays having full and equal rights and not be a bigot. That is literally not possible. If someone were to say they "disagreed" with black people marrying white people, or having full and equal rights, their bigotry would be obvious and impossible to deny. The same goes for similar attitudes towards gays. That's one of the most idiotic, purely ignorant statements I've ever seen around here and that's saying a lot. You have no clue what the hell you are talking about. No surprise that you turned out to be an anti-Semitic racist, too. Good to know.
This time you made more sense, yes you cannot hold discriminatory beliefs or ideals and not be a bigot, but you can disagree with homosexuality as a I dunno concept and not be a bigot, bigotry requires discrimination and intolerance of something, just being like nah I don't like that and shaking your head if you see a gay couple isn't bigotry, it's stupid as fuck thinking imo but it's not bigotry, the other time you said basically unless you are pro LGBTQ+ you are a bigot which is unfair to say imo, and is itself bigotry because that is having no tolerance for any opinion but your own.
There is a difference after all in not liking or agreeing with something and thinking they are lesser than you for being or doing whatever it is you disagree with, though the likelihood of someone not liking homosexuals and not having that influence them in ways that either small or large impact and hurt people who are gay is improbable it's not impossible.
And whilst I am pro-LGBTQ+ I don't think the way to fight bigotry towards them is with bigotry towards anyone who isn't also pro-LGBTQ+ that doesn't win people over, it just makes you look as bad as the idiots imo.
It's definitely possible to disagree with something without being discriminatory about it. For example in regards to LGBTQ, a person may say that they don't agree with the concept. That they personally don't like it. That they don't have the slightest inclination of being anything but straight and that they don't understand people who aren't. But as long as they treat LGBTQ people with the same respect they do everyone else, as long as they don't attack these people or treat them unfairly, then we can't say that they're discriminating against LGBTQs. In the same way, it's perfectly acceptable to disagree with certain religious beliefs. It's perfectly fine to think religion (or some religions) are stupid. Perfectly fine to believe religion is not for you. But the moment you attack people for their choice of religion, the moment you start calling them names or giving them less respect than normal just because of their religion, that makes you a bigot. And I agree, you can't fix bigotry with more bigotry.
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