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Post by CowherPowerForever on Apr 26, 2019 23:21:34 GMT
Steve clearly goes back and screws up the timeline. However, as it appears here at the end of this film its like nothing happens. How long are we expected to keep believing the original timeline is intact? Far From Home should be a good indicator, but who knows how long it will go on for after that if they don't mention it. When Peggy says she got married in Winter Soldier, she never says to who... Steve's going back and living an incognito life shouldn't have disrupted the timeline beyond repair. That is one massive stretch job you just did. Where is Mr. Fantastic when you need him.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Apr 26, 2019 23:27:23 GMT
When Peggy says she got married in Winter Soldier, she never says to who... Steve's going back and living an incognito life shouldn't have disrupted the timeline beyond repair. That is one massive stretch job you just did. Where is Mr. Fantastic when you need him. Okay, we've obviously got two different ideas of what "massive" means. Where is Giant Man when you need him?
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Post by kleinreturns on Apr 27, 2019 0:02:23 GMT
Wow, if the timeline didn't make sense before, this movie takes a baseball bat to it for sure. Wonder how long it will take them to acknowledge it has changed so much. Doesn't look like Far From Home will do it. There is now no timeline. No reliable sequence of events. No character is living and no character is dead. The entire MCU is in a state of superposition. There is no then, when, ever or, never. It's all happening right now. We're in a true multiverse and, Endgame was its Crisis. Surprisingly i like that concept.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Apr 27, 2019 0:30:29 GMT
There is now no timeline. No reliable sequence of events. No character is living and no character is dead. The entire MCU is in a state of superposition. There is no then, when, ever or, never. It's all happening right now. We're in a true multiverse and, Endgame was its Crisis. Surprisingly i like that concept. Because it opens up manifold possibilities. I'm surprised by how many people really need the security blanket of a linear narrative to "move on" or to feel "satisfied."
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Post by Vegas on Apr 27, 2019 0:39:47 GMT
Steve clearly goes back and screws up the timeline. However, as it appears here at the end of this film its like nothing happens. How long are we expected to keep believing the original timeline is intact? Far From Home should be a good indicator, but who knows how long it will go on for after that if they don't mention it. Far From Home is gonna have to make some reference to Endgame... as Tony is no longer around... but it's got to be weird. - "Say, Ned.... Remember when we were dead for five years?"
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2019 1:55:16 GMT
Lol fair enough point. But come on, Thor is supposed to be a badass GOD mofo . And the Russo bros reduced him to going out as a whiny/crybaby/little bitch. To me thats very disappointing . He needed a freakin pep talk from a talking raccoon smh. If your failure to deliver a killing stroke to a madman at the crucial moment, costing trillions of lives, doesn't cause you any grief or self-pity, hey, good on you, I suspect everyone else would need a pep talk though - even if it had to come from procyonidae. Fat Asgardians are just as lethal as thin ones when they have to be. Not disappointed so much as shocked they'd go there. Thor dresses in drag in the myths, I'm sure a little sobbing would have been preferable to that for most fans. Yeah I get all that but it was still goofy and stupid as hell for the casual movie goer. They turned the almighty Thor into a fat ass whiny bitch . Sad! Sorry not sorry it was dumb as hell to watch Hemsworth in some fat suit.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Apr 27, 2019 2:03:47 GMT
If your failure to deliver a killing stroke to a madman at the crucial moment, costing trillions of lives, doesn't cause you any grief or self-pity, hey, good on you, I suspect everyone else would need a pep talk though - even if it had to come from procyonidae. Fat Asgardians are just as lethal as thin ones when they have to be. Not disappointed so much as shocked they'd go there. Thor dresses in drag in the myths, I'm sure a little sobbing would have been preferable to that for most fans. Yeah I get all that but it was still goofy and stupid as hell for the casual movie goer. They turned the almighty Thor into a fat ass whiny bitch . Sad! Sorry not sorry it was dumb as hell to watch Hemsworth in some fat suit. Right, I didn't find it dumb at all. Sorry. Never sorry.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Apr 27, 2019 2:14:45 GMT
So what does everyone think of Cap using Mjolnir to fight Thanos? I'm fine with Cap being able to lift Mjolnir and fight with it (as long as it's done sparingly, like using it for a final blow), but to have him throw it and come back to him as if he were Thor kinda bothers me a little. If you interpret the inscription on Mjolnir literally, it makes perfect sense that the Hammer would return to whichever of the two called it first. Whosoever holds this hammer, if [t]he[y] be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor.
That suggests that Steve was granted all of Thor's power including his strength, durability and his ability to generate and discharge massive amounts of electrical energy. His ability to wield Mjolnir and call it to his aid would have to be included as well.
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Post by twothousandonemark on Apr 27, 2019 4:12:00 GMT
Cap picking up fat Thor's hammer and using it against Thanos was hands down the high light of the film . My crowd erupted in cheers during that moment. Yeah, there were several audible omgs in my crowd for that - the kind of audibles ppl don't realize they're aloud lols. Hours later, I have a strange craving to re-watch Ant-Man... Paul Rudd sleeper MVP of the film.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Apr 27, 2019 5:22:53 GMT
Just got back from the theater. Was not expecting Black Widow bring one of the ones to die.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Apr 27, 2019 5:55:35 GMT
So what does everyone think of Cap using Mjolnir to fight Thanos? The audience clapped sooooo loudly when he first caught Mjolnir. It got some "Oh shit"s at my theater. Favorite moment of the whole movie myself. Great payoff to one of the few memorable scenes in AoU.
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Post by Vassaggo on Apr 27, 2019 6:22:10 GMT
As soon as I saw Thor for the first time. I didn't cringe at the awkwardness of it. I cringed at how every troll on the internet was going to make this their thesis on how Marvel Studios treats and ruins Thor. Me personally I liked the juxtaposition of massive depression, guilt, loss, and failure with the Chris Hemsworth god given comedic timing, hyperbolic awkwardness, and scenery chewing. In a horror movie if comedy is infused correctly it makes the horrific aspects hit home more as a foil to accentuate the grotesqueness. Here the slap stick over the top comedy frames and defines the the bleak hopelessness and anguish Thor is going through.
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Post by Prime etc. on Apr 27, 2019 6:36:44 GMT
So what does everyone think of Cap using Mjolnir to fight Thanos? They really hate Beowulf types over at Disney HQ. Thor may have originally had the crippled doctor alter ego-but when he turned into Thor, he was supposed to be a super powered dude. But Disney (and probably Marvel's execs also) do not like that one bit. They prefer the nerds or David archtypes. Steve Rogers is a David-since he started out as a scrawny wimp and only gained power through science (just as David had power through the slingshot technology). Ditto for Tony Stark. And Banner.
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Post by deviates on Apr 27, 2019 8:41:45 GMT
I really enjoyed the film, though there is one bit that is bugging me. They explain numerous times that time travel creates divergent time lines. So when they go back and take one of the stones, that time line heads off in one direction while the Avengers return to 2023 in another time line. So when Cap travels back in time at the end of the movie, how does he turn up as old cap? Shouldn't his life have taken place in an alternate time line too?
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Post by hobowar on Apr 27, 2019 13:18:29 GMT
I always wanted a body like Thor and I finally got it.
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Post by Vassaggo on Apr 27, 2019 14:22:42 GMT
I always wanted a body like Thor and I finally got it.
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Post by Vegas on Apr 27, 2019 14:37:43 GMT
Just got back from the theater. Was not expecting Black Widow bring one of the ones to die. Same here... I seem to remember hearing that she has a movie that's been green-lighted.... ...unless that was an intentional misdirect.
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Post by hobowar on Apr 27, 2019 14:46:42 GMT
Just got back from the theater. Was not expecting Black Widow bring one of the ones to die. Same here... I seem to remember hearing that she has a movie that's been green-lighted.... ...unless that was an intentional misdirect. I heard it's a prequel.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Apr 27, 2019 15:55:16 GMT
Loved the movie but I'll save that discussion for later. Just wanted to talk about a few things that bothered me.
1. The timeline is broken. Which is fine, if that's the way they want to handle it. But they seem to be pretending everything works out if you just bring the stones back to the moment you took them. Thing is, major changes occurred before you took the stones, and since they don't show us, we don't know exactly what changed. For example:
What happened to Hydra? The entire MCU from The Avengers on is completely different if Hydra thinks Cap is in the fold (or realize he's onto them).
Where is Loki? When did Cap bring the tesseract back? Because even if he brought it back to when he took in 1970, that timeline still features Loki running off with a version of it in 2012, no? Perhaps this will be addressed in the upcoming Loki series on Disney Plus.
What exactly are the details of Cap's marriage to Peggy? Did he use an alias (and everyone in the SSR pretended not to notice this guy looks and sounds exactly like Steve Rogers) or did they marry in secret and Steve hid in her basement for 70 years? Conversely, was he openly Captain America in this timeline, married to Peggy Carter and continued his hero career? Those are your two options, and while the former is absurd the latter would cause enormous changes to the timeline-- and it would've been established history in that world that Sam wouldn't need to ask about.
This is why time travel is messy and I prefer to avoid it as a storytelling device. As I said earlier, I'm fine with a broken timeline as long as they admit it's broken, but they're trying hard in this film to pretend the established continuity is intact.
2. Hulk did nothing in this film (again). I'm not even a Hulk fan, but I felt he was a wasted character in these two movies. He inexplicably got his ass handed to him in IW and refused to come back. He shows up in Endgame as Professor Hulk without much of an explanation and does nothing the entire film. They tried to give him a moment by having him do the snap to bring everyone back (not insignificant, no argument here), but people are expecting a little more action from that character.
I was desperately hoping for a Hulk rematch with Thanos; either he'd wrestle the glove away from him or beat his ass one on one after the fact; but instead Thanos goes out with a whimper and Hulk is stuck under rubble or something. Did we ever see Hulk in the battle at all? I don't remember seeing him, but there was a lot going on and I lost my sh-t somewhere around "Avengers Assemble!" so you'll have to forgive my ignorance.
(As an aside, a minor gripe related to this is that Thanos never learned he was wrong. In all likelihood he's too stubborn anyway, but it would've been nice to at least have someone talk sh-t to him as his army/he faded away. "This is what the strongest wills do. They find a way to come together and solve their problems," something along those lines. He's simply defeated and that's the end of it.)
3. I'm fine with the death of Tony and the retirement of Cap, both fitting ends to their personal journeys. I also thought it was a great opportunity to send Thor into semi-retirement in full Odin Allfather mode. Instead he's joining up with the Guardians? I love the Guardians, some of my favorite characters in the MCU. But at the end of the day they fight with knives and guns. Thor is so far beyond their level I don't see what the point of that team-up on a semi-permanent basis would be. Have Valkyrie join them. She's a natural fighter in her prime (and the perfect Gamora stand in for that matter); she's too young to become the leader of the Asgardians. She's a field operative, not a commander in chief.
After going on like that I want to reiterate, I don't hate any of these creative decisions, though I would've preferred an alternative. Endgame is an incredible ending to an emotional cinematic journey we've been on for 11 years. There may be things I'd change along the way, but I wouldn't change the outcome for anything.
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Post by bud47 on Apr 27, 2019 16:11:16 GMT
Loved the movie but I'll save that discussion for later. Just wanted to talk about a few things that bothered me. 1. The timeline is broken. Which is fine, if that's the way they want to handle it. But they seem to be pretending everything works out if you just bring the stones back to the moment you took them. Thing is, major changes occurred before you took the stones, and since they don't show us, we don't know exactly what changed. For example: What happened to Hydra? The entire MCU from The Avengers on is completely different if Hydra thinks Cap is in the fold (or realize he's onto them). Where is Loki? When did Cap bring the tesseract back? Because even if he brought it back to when he took in 1970, that timeline still features Loki running off with a version of it in 2012, no? Perhaps this will be addressed in the upcoming Loki series on Disney Plus. What exactly are the details of Cap's marriage to Peggy? Did he use an alias (and everyone in the SSR pretended not to notice this guy looks and sounds exactly like Steve Rogers) or did they marry in secret and Steve hid in her basement for 70 years? Conversely, was he openly Captain America in this timeline, married to Peggy Carter and continued his hero career? Those are your two options, and while the former is absurd the latter would cause enormous changes to the timeline-- and it would've been established history in that world that Sam wouldn't need to ask about. This is why time travel is messy and I prefer to avoid it as a storytelling device. As I said earlier, I'm fine with a broken timeline as long as they admit it's broken, but they're trying hard in this film to pretend the established continuity is intact. 2. Hulk did nothing in this film (again). I'm not even a Hulk fan, but I felt he was a wasted character in these two movies. He inexplicably got his ass handed to him in IW and refused to come back. He shows up in Endgame as Professor Hulk without much of an explanation and does nothing the entire film. They tried to give him a moment by having him do the snap to bring everyone back (not insignificant, no argument here), but people are expecting a little more action from that character. I was desperately hoping for a Hulk rematch with Thanos; either he'd wrestle the glove away from him or beat his ass one on one after the fact; but instead Thanos goes out with a whimper and Hulk is stuck under rubble or something. Did we ever see Hulk in the battle at all? I don't remember seeing him, but there was a lot going on and I lost my sh-t somewhere around "Avengers Assemble!" so you'll have to forgive my ignorance. (As an aside, a minor gripe related to this is that Thanos never learned he was wrong. In all likelihood he's too stubborn anyway, but it would've been nice to at least have someone talk sh-t to him as his army/he faded away. " This is what the strongest wills do. They find a way to come together and solve their problems," something along those lines. He's simply defeated and that's the end of it.) 3. I'm fine with the death of Tony and the retirement of Cap, both fitting ends to their personal journeys. I also thought it was a great opportunity to send Thor into semi-retirement in full Odin Allfather mode. Instead he's joining up with the Guardians? I love the Guardians, some of my favorite characters in the MCU. But at the end of the day they fight with knives and guns. Thor is so far beyond their level I don't see what the point of that team-up on a semi-permanent basis would be. Have Valkyrie join them. She's a natural fighter in her prime (and the perfect Gamora stand in for that matter); she's too young to become the leader of the Asgardians. She's a field operative, not a commander in chief. After going on like that I want to reiterate, I don't hate any of these creative decisions, though I would've preferred an alternative. Endgame is an incredible ending to an emotional cinematic journey we've been on for 11 years. There may be things I'd change along the way, but I wouldn't change the outcome for anything. I greatly enjoyed the film, but I agree with all of this. It definitely has some issues and some missed opportunities, especially with the Hulk.
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