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Post by Rey Kahuka on Apr 30, 2019 17:35:08 GMT
Well he was considerate enough to PM me before he made the thread to make sure it's title wouldn't count as a spoiler for other people. A troll would spoil it on purpose. A troll would constantly post negativity for the sake of starting an argument because they're miserable. His criticisms don't even make sense. He says there's no reason for the two Caps to fight each other and Tony's conversation with his dad is just an Easter egg. Both statements are false and his entire argument is hypocritical. The action is somehow unnecessary to the plot and so are the character moments? I don't want you to ban him or stop him from posting, I know how to use the block feature. But it's disingenuous to argue his behavior isn't trollish.
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Post by Skaathar on Apr 30, 2019 17:47:33 GMT
Meh. The fact that you claim Endgame is a rip-off of DofP in your very first sentence already tells me this is a troll post. No sense reading whatever else you wrote after that.
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Post by bud47 on Apr 30, 2019 17:49:16 GMT
I can just picture you squirming in your seat with your hate goggles on watching this film, looking to tear it apart piece by piece. You were going to hate this film no matter what. Yet you still forced yourself to see it. All just so you can come here, complain and be part of the conversation. Who does that? At least Disney got your money and you wasted 3 hours of your life. Good job. Soon as they mentioned time travel i knew they were going for a DOFP style plot. So you can compare the 2 movies easily. Too bad they couldnt surpass it. What is it wrong to have that opinion now. Anyway enough personal attax So bud, dont you feel that Stark suddenly coming to realise that he can access multiple pym particles lessens the urgency of the time travel aspect? Hulk kept saying they only had 1 shot at the time heist because Antman only had 1 pym particles bottle before they entered the quantum world. Now they can time travel with the comfort of having a safety net. DOFP was written to have only 1 shot at convincing Mistique to not kill Trask - that makes it more on-the-edge tense surely? Sure, if you pick each scene apart piece by piece with a microscope, you're going to find inconsistencies and holes and this film definitely has some. The difference is, I can overlook those things and enjoy the film for what it's trying to do, which is to entertain. You go into these films with a really negative attitude and mindset, so it's no surprise at all when you come out with your list of criticisms. Strange though that you have no problem with overlooking things that can just as easily be criticized and nitpicked in the Fox-Men films. We all know you prefer DOFP. You've made your opinion well known. It's a good, yet simple film that had the convenience of having a short 2-issue comic book storyline blueprint to adapt, which in my opinion, failed to satisfy on several levels. It was small in scope and did nothing to really service the fans. Endgame had a much more monumental task, trying to resolve the events of Infinity War, yet also give fans a satisfying and entertaining ending to 22 films and in my opinion in that regard, it succeeded. Sorry we can't all be sourpusses with superiority complexes like you.
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Post by charzhino on Apr 30, 2019 17:49:31 GMT
I didn't attempt to answer a question. My point was there is plenty of faulty logic with comic book movies, yet the audience ignores it when they're invested in the characters and the story. I could sit here and list all of the idiocy in any given X-Men film, let alone DOFP, but I'd be here all day and nobody cares about those films, anyway. The question I posed isnt a nit pick, its a major plot element. Arguably the biggest event in the movie is TonyStark sacrificing himself and dying. Nothing wrong with that idea, I encourage higher stakes. But im critcising the writing. How can Stark hold the infinity gems being a normal human with no special forged gauntlet. The Russos writing has been under question before with The whole "camera happened to be in the right place during Civil War". If theyve made another major error in the writing for Endgame here, sorry it has to be called out whether you like it or not. Just going to ignore all personal attacks on me because im not stooping to that level. And I really like Thor TDW, i thought it portays Thor brilliantly and did good job showing the serious dramatic story on Asgard. Its in my top 6 MCU movies as ranked here by me earlier imdb2.freeforums.net/thread/167451/rate-rank-mcuBack to your question, yes the Aether is the only infinity gem that is not solid crystal, rather its a symbiote-like goo which fuses into hosts, like Jane Forster. It didnt kill her because it used her life force as a host. However weve seen other stones kill people on contact. With all 6, there is no way Stark has the means to possess them. |
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Post by charzhino on Apr 30, 2019 17:50:35 GMT
Meh. The fact that you claim Endgame is a rip-off of DofP in your very first sentence already tells me this is a troll post. No sense reading whatever else you wrote after that. Time travel into the past to fix a dystopian future. I mean if you cant see the similarities then i dont know what to say |
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Post by Wolverine10005 on Apr 30, 2019 17:54:07 GMT
spoilers
Endgame is an inferior ripoff of xmen days of future past.
Lets see, Endgame uses time travel where heroes are sent to the past to bring changes needed to fix a dystopian future. Hmm sounds familiar. DC fans protesting Russos ripped off Snyders original Flash timetravel plot that never materialised need to take a back seat; more blatantly Russo’s have ripped of xmen days of future past, yet still managed to make an inferior movie with twice the budget lmao
Thor is the substitute for Xavier, the broken man that has lost everything. Look at how they’ve disgraced poor Thor again, made him into a 3hr running fat joke. Didn’t I say MCU loves to humiliate its own characters for cheap laughs? Yea it was funny the first 2 minutes when hes fat and playing fortnite but they kept with the gag for 3 hrs lmao
Same with ‘’professor hulk’’  , turned into a friendly green giant comedian who dabs lol. Bring back Joss Whedon atleast he knew how to make Banner/Hulk and Thor real intelligent macho characters and not the wimpy versions we have now. Didn’t I also say if Disney made DOFP we would see Xaviers struggle watered down, well endgame is the proof. Xavier would be the same as dude-bro thor, treated as a throwaway puppet for cheesy humour. No emotional depth to his arc. Hasn’t it been declared again and again that Disney cannot handle compelling adult themes, they need to keep it light for the kids.
EGs time heist plot is also inferior from a conceptual POV. No tension as Stark figures out a way to access bottles worth of pym particles so they can hop through time with ease. No more one try only, unlike DOFP where logan has limited time before sentinels find kitty and game over. The 2nd act timetravel in ENDGAME is solely driven by nostalgic callbacks, pop culture references and easter egg fan service - not story or character driven (with the one exception of Black Widow/Hawkeye quest).
And this is without even mentioning the long list of gaping plot holes and the messy continuity that’s resulted from Russos poor writing on full display once again. No moreso than the contrived ending of Stark being killed. He takes the stones from Thanos (why can his earth based metal glove hold the power of the infinity stones, when Thanos needed to go to Nidavellir to forge his gaunlet from the fusion energy of a star) – so why cannot Stark tell Scarlet witch to freeze hold Thanos in the air, like she did a minute before, and ask one of the hundreds of mystics to use portals to cut Thanos in half? The death of stark isn’t earned and makes no sense, it’s just thrown in because the plot demanded he die.
You're right, from start to finish. But people are gonna rip you apart. Right now.
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Post by Skaathar on Apr 30, 2019 17:54:09 GMT
Meh. The fact that you claim Endgame is a rip-off of DofP in your very first sentence already tells me this is a troll post. No sense reading whatever else you wrote after that. Time travel into the past to fix a dystopian future. I mean if you cant see the similarities then i dont know what to say Similarities doesn't equal rip-off. The fact that you used that specific phrasing already shows that you're approaching this topic with very clear bias. I expected better from you. I always knew you were a bit anti-MCU but I never figure you for a troll. Threads like these I would have expected from summers8 or DC-Fan, not from you. |
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Post by charzhino on Apr 30, 2019 17:54:31 GMT
Well he was considerate enough to PM me before he made the thread to make sure it's title wouldn't count as a spoiler for other people. A troll would spoil it on purpose. A troll would constantly post negativity for the sake of starting an argument because they're miserable. His criticisms don't even make sense. He says there's no reason for the two Caps to fight each other and Tony's conversation with his dad is just an Easter egg. Both statements are false and his entire argument is hypocritical. The action is somehow unnecessary to the plot and so are the character moments? I don't want you to ban him or stop him from posting, I know how to use the block feature. But it's disingenuous to argue his behavior isn't trollish. Its a legimate criticism. Caps fighting and starks talking is nostalgic fan service. It adds nothing to the plot, you can write both scenes out and it wouldnt affect the story. Please tell me im wrong |
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Post by scabab on Apr 30, 2019 17:55:21 GMT
Well it's not like DOFP was the first movie to have that plot device.
The Terminator did that too. Even Honest Trailers pointed out the comparisons between DOFP and Terminator 2.
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Post by charzhino on Apr 30, 2019 17:59:00 GMT
Time travel into the past to fix a dystopian future. I mean if you cant see the similarities then i dont know what to say Similarities doesn't equal rip-off. The fact that you used that specific phrasing already shows that you're approaching this topic with very clear bias. I expected better from you. I always knew you were a bit anti-MCU but I never figure you for a troll. Threads like these I would have expected from summers8 or DC-Fan, not from you. Hear me out. It is a rip off because Endgame is an original story. Theres no comics story in the infinity saga that resembles Endgame, so they had to ripoff/copy others ideas to come up with a plot. Now ThatGuy on this very board used to argue with summers8 that DOFP ripped off Terminator 2. I understand where Thatguy comes from but the fact is the comic story of DOFP predates T2, so cant be a ripoff. Take the word rip off as negatively or positively as you want, but Endgame does "borrow" heavily, if that word suits you, off the DOFP concept story
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Post by charzhino on Apr 30, 2019 17:59:58 GMT
Well it's not like DOFP was the first movie to have that plot device. The Terminator did that too. Even Honest Trailers pointed out the comparisons between DOFP and Terminator 2. DOFP (1981) predates T2
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Post by charzhino on Apr 30, 2019 18:00:47 GMT
You're right, from start to finish. But people are gonna rip you apart. Right now. Its the nature of MCU fans. Attack the messenger |
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Apr 30, 2019 18:04:08 GMT
A troll would constantly post negativity for the sake of starting an argument because they're miserable. His criticisms don't even make sense. He says there's no reason for the two Caps to fight each other and Tony's conversation with his dad is just an Easter egg. Both statements are false and his entire argument is hypocritical. The action is somehow unnecessary to the plot and so are the character moments? I don't want you to ban him or stop him from posting, I know how to use the block feature. But it's disingenuous to argue his behavior isn't trollish. Its a legimate criticism. Caps fighting and starks talking is nostalgic fan service. It adds nothing to the plot, you can write both scenes out and it wouldnt affect the story. Please tell me im wrong Cap is trying to steal the scepter and 2012 Cap thinks he's Loki. You seriously don't understand why they're fighting? Tony talking to his father isn't fan service, it's part of his arc. His issues with his father have been a subplot in several films; giving the character closure in a film where he's killed off isn't fan service. The fact that you don't understand either of those scenes makes the rest of your commentary irrelevant. Either you don't understand basic narrative elements or you're so incredibly biased you choose not to. "They go back in time to stop a dystopian future, it's a ripoff of DOFP." Do you realize how many movies feature people going back in time to stop a dystopian future? Watch Endgame again because they list a few.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Apr 30, 2019 18:06:30 GMT
You're right, from start to finish. But people are gonna rip you apart. Right now. Its the nature of MCU fans. Attack the messenger You've never attacked Brie Larson for her message, have you?
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Post by bud47 on Apr 30, 2019 18:12:45 GMT
I didn't attempt to answer a question. My point was there is plenty of faulty logic with comic book movies, yet the audience ignores it when they're invested in the characters and the story. I could sit here and list all of the idiocy in any given X-Men film, let alone DOFP, but I'd be here all day and nobody cares about those films, anyway. The question I posed isnt a nit pick, its a major plot element. Arguably the biggest event in the movie is TonyStark sacrificing himself and dying. Nothing wrong with that idea, I encourage higher stakes. But im critcising the writing. How can Stark hold the infinity gems being a normal human with no special forged gauntlet. The Russos writing has been under question before with The whole "camera happened to be in the right place during Civil War". If theyve made another major error in the writing for Endgame here, sorry it has to be called out whether you like it or not. Except that it is a nitpick. The scene served it's purpose. Stark snatched the stones and sacrificed himself when he used them to destroy Thanos and his army. Simple and straightforward. To look at anything beyond that purpose is to nitpick. No one is thinking of the technicality of the stones from the previous films because unlike you, they're invested in what's going on in that scene. But since you're so dead-set on nitpicking, yes it's true, he's not wearing a specialized gauntlet, which would allow more sustained use. However, he is wearing his armor and the standard gauntlet it possesses, nonetheless. He's not having direct skin contact with it. Even then, you can clearly see it's having a deadly physical effect on him from the moment it's on him. His armor only provides him a few seconds, allowing him to snap his fingers at which point it has already killed him.
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Post by charzhino on Apr 30, 2019 18:13:36 GMT
Sure, if you pick each scene apart piece by piece with a microscope, you're going to find inconsistencies and holes and this film definitely has some. The difference is, I can overlook those things and enjoy the film for what it's trying to do, which is to entertain. You go into these films with a really negative attitude and mindset, so it's no surprise at all when you come out with your list of criticisms. Strange though that you have no problem with overlooking things that can just as easily be criticized and nitpicked in the Fox-Men films. Dc-fan will nitpick things that are inconsequential like that grenade scene in first Avenger. Im picking up on major plot moments that glue together the story. Having multiple pym particles lessens the tension of going back in time because there is a margin for error now. I THINK that was a major mistake because the urgency and threat of failure is diminished greatly, wheras in DOFP it was a 1 try only. Doesnt take a film theologian to look at that and say, yes the movie which created more tension for the audience excelled in that narrative point. Its not a microscopic nitpick. If i was to do that Id complain about stark figuring out time travel so quickly. I didnt complain when kitty pryde suddenly had phasing time shift powers. And endgame can be judged without blinkered bias. You and other mcu fanatics arent going to pick up on these points and im not trying to convince you, rather challenge your blinding fanboyism on not seeing anything wrong with EG as its apparently "the best movie ever made". Anyone neutral or on the fence reading this can stop, think and make up their own minds, hmmm maybe charzhino is right |
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Post by charzhino on Apr 30, 2019 18:22:33 GMT
Except that it is a nitpick. The scene served it's purpose. Stark snatched the stones and sacrificed himself when he used them to destroy Thanos and his army. Simple and straightforward. To look at anything beyond that purpose is to nitpick. No one is thinking of the technicality of the stones from the previous films because unlike you, they're invested in what's going on in that scene. But since you're so dead-set on nitpicking, yes it's true, he's not wearing a specialized gauntlet, which would allow more sustained use. However, he is wearing his armor and the standard gauntlet it possesses, nonetheless. He's not having direct skin contact with it. Even then, you can clearly see it's having a deadly physical effect on him from the moment it's on him. His armor only provides him a few seconds, allowing him to snap his fingers at which point it has already killed him. [/quote] Lmao so that is considered a nitpick now, to question how stark can hold the gauntlet in a contrived self sacrafice. Wow!! Does mcu want its audience to keep up with their movies or not? I remember almost everything thats happened in phase 1 and phase 2 movies, so when stark carries the gauntlet, IT contradicts what ive seen before. How can i let that slide, are you saying i/people should just turn their brains off and enjoy the spectacle??? His armour is gold alloy, earth based. Not star forged to hold the power of the stones as Thanos' gauntlet |
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Post by bud47 on Apr 30, 2019 18:27:27 GMT
Sure, if you pick each scene apart piece by piece with a microscope, you're going to find inconsistencies and holes and this film definitely has some. The difference is, I can overlook those things and enjoy the film for what it's trying to do, which is to entertain. You go into these films with a really negative attitude and mindset, so it's no surprise at all when you come out with your list of criticisms. Strange though that you have no problem with overlooking things that can just as easily be criticized and nitpicked in the Fox-Men films. Dc-fan will nitpick things that are inconsequential like that grenade scene in first Avenger. Im picking up on major plot moments that glue together the story. Having multiple pym particles lessens the tension of going back in time because there is a margin for error now. I THINK that was a major mistake because the urgency and threat of failure is diminished greatly, wheras in DOFP it was a 1 try only. Doesnt take a film theologian to look at that and say, yes the movie which created more tension for the audience excelled in that narrative point. Its not a microscopic nitpick. If i was to do that Id complain about stark figuring out time travel so quickly. I didnt complain when kitty pryde suddenly had phasing time shift powers. And endgame can be judged without blinkered bias. You and other mcu fanatics arent going to pick up on these points and im not trying to convince you, rather challenge your blinding fanboyism on not seeing anything wrong with EG as its apparently "the best movie ever made". Anyone neutral or on the fence reading this can stop, think and make up their own minds, hmmm maybe charzhino is right Not sure why you think we're blind fanatics. I clearly said the film has inconsistencies and holes and others here have pointed them out as well. We just don't let it ruin our enjoyment of the film. I'm not saying it's the best film ever made, but you clearly think DOFP is, even though the same criticisms can be made for that film just as easily as Endgame. You just choose to overlook them. I will say one thing about MCU fans. You don't see us needlessly comparing films to validate our opinions. You don't see us posting things like Endgame is superior to Days of Future Past.
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Post by bud47 on Apr 30, 2019 18:30:15 GMT
Except that it is a nitpick. The scene served it's purpose. Stark snatched the stones and sacrificed himself when he used them to destroy Thanos and his army. Simple and straightforward. To look at anything beyond that purpose is to nitpick. No one is thinking of the technicality of the stones from the previous films because unlike you, they're invested in what's going on in that scene. But since you're so dead-set on nitpicking, yes it's true, he's not wearing a specialized gauntlet, which would allow more sustained use. However, he is wearing his armor and the standard gauntlet it possesses, nonetheless. He's not having direct skin contact with it. Even then, you can clearly see it's having a deadly physical effect on him from the moment it's on him. His armor only provides him a few seconds, allowing him to snap his fingers at which point it has already killed him. Did Stark live at the end of the film? No, he did not. If he did, you would have an argument. Thanos's gauntlet was forged to allow for sustained and repeated use of the stones in unison with minimal damage and without risk of death to the user. Stark's armor was not, which was clearly shown as it only allowed him to use the stones for a few brief seconds before it killed him.
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Post by charzhino on Apr 30, 2019 18:32:12 GMT
You don't see us needlessly comparing films to validate our opinions. You don't see us posting things like Endgame is superior to Days of Future Past. Not necesarily on here but going across the internet from social media, youtube and other forums there exists this delusion of grandeur. And if mcu fanatics banned from here were still active youd be hearing about it nonstop. Anyway i think ive made my points succinctly enough. Endgame will be like dark night rises , as time goes by you will see it picked apart and questioned after its honeymoon period is over. |
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