|
Post by bud47 on Apr 30, 2019 18:50:53 GMT
You don't see us needlessly comparing films to validate our opinions. You don't see us posting things like Endgame is superior to Days of Future Past. Not necesarily on here but going across the internet from social media, youtube and other forums there exists this delusion of grandeur. And if mcu fanatics banned from here were still active youd be hearing about it nonstop. Anyway i think ive made my points succinctly enough. Endgame will be like dark night rises , as time goes by you will see it picked apart and questioned after its honeymoon period is over. "Delusion of grandeur" There's that superiority complex of yours again. You mean people having different opinions? People are already picking Endgame apart. Regardless, it is still considered a very good film. It resonated with people at an emotional level. No one was crying in the theater for The Dark Knight Rises.
|
|
Marendil
Sophomore
@marendil
Posts: 750
Likes: 301
|
Post by Marendil on Apr 30, 2019 19:10:26 GMT
I liked "Days of Future Past" better as a movie as well, especially the 'Rogue' cut, but overall Endgame had more compelling characters.
Both are great movies but I just saw Endgame again this morning and probably won't go again and while I'll get the Blu-ray eventually I probably won't watch it as often as "Days of Future Past."
|
|
|
Post by Hauntedknight87 on Apr 30, 2019 19:53:27 GMT
I liked Endgame more than Days of Future past. But that's just it, it's all opinions.
Unfortunately within fandoms an opposing opinion typically resorts to hostility, which many here on these boards are guilty of.
|
|
|
Post by charzhino on Apr 30, 2019 19:59:37 GMT
People are free to like or prefer one over the other. Im just providing a case based on evidence from both movies scripts why DOFP is better crafted.
|
|
|
Post by bud47 on Apr 30, 2019 20:01:51 GMT
People are free to like or prefer one over the other. Im just providing a case based on evidence from both movies scripts why I think DOFP is better crafted. Fixed
|
|
|
Post by Rey Kahuka on Apr 30, 2019 20:02:15 GMT
I liked Endgame more than Days of Future past. But that's just it, it's all opinions. Unfortunately within fandoms an opposing opinion typically resorts to hostility, which many here on these boards are guilty of.Starting with the OP. Read his take on why Black Panther didn't deserve a best picture nod, it's a real eye opener.
|
|
|
Post by charzhino on Apr 30, 2019 20:14:48 GMT
Cap is trying to steal the scepter and 2012 Cap thinks he's Loki. You seriously don't understand why they're fighting? Tony talking to his father isn't fan service, it's part of his arc. His issues with his father have been a subplot in several films; giving the character closure in a film where he's killed off isn't fan service. The fact that you don't understand either of those scenes makes the rest of your commentary irrelevant. Either you don't understand basic narrative elements or you're so incredibly biased you choose not to. "They go back in time to stop a dystopian future, it's a ripoff of DOFP." Do you realize how many movies feature people going back in time to stop a dystopian future? Watch Endgame again because they list a few. Just to quickly answer this. Nope that is fan service. Cap fighting cap is a cool moment that pleases crowds whove been watching since phase 1. Take away the nostalgia and the scene is fan service at best. Nothing new is introduced and the fight scene is underwhelming. Compare to similar scene where quicksilver is also escaping an area with a macguffin (magneto). Quicksilvers action scene is new and elegantly constructed, probably the best slow mo scene in any movie. Tony talking to his dad is nostalgic callback. Again its rewarding fans who have been watching since IM1. Ignoring the obvious absurdity that a guy as powerful as Howard would be talking so long and personally about his life to a total stranger (dont want to be accused of nitpicking), does the scene give any added character motivation to Tony? Does it inspire him to carry on with his mission? Dont think so, hes alredy convinced about the mission at hand and saving the fallen 50%. Howard stark tells him nothing that changes or adds to Tonys opinion of him. He already knew from Iron man 2 watching old videos that his dad really cared about his son. The scene could have been written out and nothing changed about tonys character motivation. Compare when Xavier meets his older self, completely re-invigorates young prof X to go ahead with his personal mission. Howard talking to Tony does nothing for the main plot of the movie. Its fan service nostalgia. It could have been written out. Xavier scene couldnt as its integral to the story
|
|
|
Post by Rey Kahuka on Apr 30, 2019 20:27:27 GMT
Cap is trying to steal the scepter and 2012 Cap thinks he's Loki. You seriously don't understand why they're fighting? Tony talking to his father isn't fan service, it's part of his arc. His issues with his father have been a subplot in several films; giving the character closure in a film where he's killed off isn't fan service. The fact that you don't understand either of those scenes makes the rest of your commentary irrelevant. Either you don't understand basic narrative elements or you're so incredibly biased you choose not to. "They go back in time to stop a dystopian future, it's a ripoff of DOFP." Do you realize how many movies feature people going back in time to stop a dystopian future? Watch Endgame again because they list a few. Just to quickly answer this. Nope that is fan service. Cap fighting cap is a cool moment that pleases crowds whove been watching since phase 1. Take away the nostalgia and the scene is fan service at best. Nothing new is introduced and the fight scene is underwhelming. Compare to similar scene where quicksilver is also escaping an area with a macguffin (magneto). Quicksilvers action scene is new and elegantly constructed, probably the best slow mo scene in any movie. Tony talking to his dad is nostalgic callback. Again its rewarding fans who have been watching since IM1. Ignoring the obvious absurdity that a guy as powerful as Howard would be talking so long and personally about his life to a total stranger (dont want to be accused of nitpicking), does the scene give any added character motivation to Tony? Does it inspire him to carry on with his mission? Dont think so, hes alredy convinced about the mission at hand and saving the fallen 50%. Howard stark tells him nothing that changes or adds to Tonys opinion of him. He already knew from Iron man 2 watching old videos that his dad really cared about his son. The scene could have been written out and nothing changed about tonys character motivation. Compare when Xavier meets his older self, completely re-invigorates young prof X to go ahead with his personal mission. Howard talking to Tony does nothing for the main plot of the movie. Its fan service nostalgia. It could have been written out. Xavier scene couldnt as its integral to the story You're wrong, and your use of Quicksilver as an example is hilarious. First of all they're both action sequences in action movies, so they both serve the same function. Secondly, Quicksilver was absolutely shoehorned into that film because of the shared rights to the character with Fox wanting to use him first. He's incredibly powerful and they never use him again in the film, which is the ultimate plot contrivance. Tony getting closure with his father is an incredible character moment, it isn't fan service. Howard Stark doesn't do anything in that scene. How many hardcore Howard Stark fans are on this board? Give it a rest. Yes, it could've been written out, and the film would've been lesser for it. Probably as generic as a Fox X-Men film, for example. Look, I get it. I just checked the X-Men board and there's been one post on the entire board in 20 hours. Nobody cares about those films and you're bitter about it. We're here for you, pal. Just try to be a little more clever from here on out. There's nowhere else for this conversation to go so let's agree to disagree. Later.
|
|
|
Post by bud47 on Apr 30, 2019 20:44:51 GMT
Cap is trying to steal the scepter and 2012 Cap thinks he's Loki. You seriously don't understand why they're fighting? Tony talking to his father isn't fan service, it's part of his arc. His issues with his father have been a subplot in several films; giving the character closure in a film where he's killed off isn't fan service. The fact that you don't understand either of those scenes makes the rest of your commentary irrelevant. Either you don't understand basic narrative elements or you're so incredibly biased you choose not to. "They go back in time to stop a dystopian future, it's a ripoff of DOFP." Do you realize how many movies feature people going back in time to stop a dystopian future? Watch Endgame again because they list a few. Just to quickly answer this. Nope that is fan service. Cap fighting cap is a cool moment that pleases crowds whove been watching since phase 1. Take away the nostalgia and the scene is fan service at best. Nothing new is introduced and the fight scene is underwhelming. Compare to similar scene where quicksilver is also escaping an area with a macguffin (magneto). Quicksilvers action scene is new and elegantly constructed, probably the best slow mo scene in any movie. Tony talking to his dad is nostalgic callback. Again its rewarding fans who have been watching since IM1. Ignoring the obvious absurdity that a guy as powerful as Howard would be talking so long and personally about his life to a total stranger (dont want to be accused of nitpicking), does the scene give any added character motivation to Tony? Does it inspire him to carry on with his mission? Dont think so, hes alredy convinced about the mission at hand and saving the fallen 50%. Howard stark tells him nothing that changes or adds to Tonys opinion of him. He already knew from Iron man 2 watching old videos that his dad really cared about his son. The scene could have been written out and nothing changed about tonys character motivation. Compare when Xavier meets his older self, completely re-invigorates young prof X to go ahead with his personal mission. Howard talking to Tony does nothing for the main plot of the movie. Its fan service nostalgia. It could have been written out. Xavier scene couldnt as its integral to the story First of all, why is fan service such a bad thing? The Fox-Men films could have used some of that. They may still be around if they actually gave fans what they wanted. Instead we just got a lot of missed opportunities. Yes, Cap fighting Cap was a cool moment that was a bit of fan service and it also gave us a quick little action scene in a film that didn't really have that much action up to that point. But it also served a purpose. It showed the dangers of time travel and running into one's past self. Luckily, the other Cap thought that it was Loki, but still, the film needed a scene to illustrate this and it did that in an entertaining way. The scene with Tony and his father was to provide Tony with further closure, seeing as how he still harbored some resentment and also regretted not being able to say goodbye from what we saw in Civil War. It wasn't needed, but considering this was Downey's last film as Iron Man and the fact that they're using time travel, I can see why they included it. Yes, he had forgiven his father, but there's nothing like having a live face to face conversation to help give him some much needed catharsis. It wasn't necessary to the main plot, but it was a good character moment, especially for one that we were saying goodbye to. Not everything has be about servicing the plot. Sure, Quicksilver helped further the plot in DOFP and had a fancy little action scene, but we could care less about him as a character.
|
|
|
Post by charzhino on Apr 30, 2019 21:25:40 GMT
You're wrong, and your use of Quicksilver as an example is hilarious. First of all they're both action sequences in action movies, so they both serve the same function. Its even more specific. Cap is stealing the sceptre and trying to sneak away from the area. Quicksilver is stealing Magneto from the prison and trying to sneak away undetected. He is shoehorned in because originally I think they wanted Juggernaut in the movie. He is super powerful and so his time in the plot is limited i agree. Hmmm sounds a lot like another overpowered character who only shows up for 10 minutes or so in Endgame.... He gets closure from a personal arc that started in Ironman 1, which doesnt affect the main story. I would call that fan service personally but whatever I have other places to talk about Xmen. Endgame and DOFP throw up interesting comparisons that will be made
|
|
|
Post by charzhino on Apr 30, 2019 21:53:57 GMT
First of all, why is fan service such a bad thing? The Fox-Men films could have used some of that. They may still be around if they actually gave fans what they wanted. Instead we just got a lot of missed opportunities. Rogue cut had a big side quest cut out from theatrical version of iceman and Magneto saving rogue from xmansion. Singer realised it didnt serve the main story well enough so cut it to make sure runtime didnt feel bloated. Fan servicing is not bad, just unnecessary. People said he stole the show
|
|
|
Post by bud47 on Apr 30, 2019 22:19:12 GMT
First of all, why is fan service such a bad thing? The Fox-Men films could have used some of that. They may still be around if they actually gave fans what they wanted. Instead we just got a lot of missed opportunities. Rogue cut had a big side quest cut out from theatrical version of iceman and Magneto saving rogue from xmansion. Singer realised it didnt serve the main story well enough so cut it to make sure runtime didnt feel bloated. Fan servicing is not bad, just unnecessary. People said he stole the show It's necessary if you want to please the fans. The fans show up when they know they're going to get what they want. They didn't get it with the Fox-Men films and we can all see how well that turned out. They also said it was the closest scene to an MCU film. It stole the show because the rest of the film was underwhelming and it was the only scene that showed a little fun. Then they repeated it in Apocalypse because of how little imagination Singer had. As a character in both films, nobody cared about him. He was a plot device. A special effects sequence. Nothing more.
|
|
Marendil
Sophomore
@marendil
Posts: 750
Likes: 301
|
Post by Marendil on Apr 30, 2019 22:19:43 GMT
People are free to like or prefer one over the other. Im just providing a case based on evidence from both movies scripts why DOFP is better crafted. I agree with that, plus the nostalgia was personal to me. I remember when all the cool cats had waterbeds when I was a little kid, and how it seemed they all ended up with ruined carpets because they'd invariably leak, which might be why they declined in popularity. I remember Pong and how so many were convinced there was a 'magic bullet' (if you fire into a metal box from an elevated position you'd expect the bullet to bounce around crazily which is one reason no-one uses open-topped halftracks anymore) involved with the Kennedy assassination and thought that was cleverly inserted. The allusions to Quicksilver being a stoner and Professor X a smack addict also jibed with what I recall of the times.
The undoing of what I considered the worst mistake of the third movie, the deaths of Scott and Jean, was met with an astonished cheer from our audience, no-one it seemed saw that coming, though I paid little attention to CBM boards at that time myself. Also the more I thought about the plot the cooler it seemed, whereas I've already realized it's probably best not to think overmuch on the implications of Endgame's plot as it wasn't built to withstand much scrutiny but to simply be enjoyed.
I thought the desperate last stand(s) of the future X-Men was cooler than any of the fights in Endgame, which had so many characters it felt like watching a Pro Bowl instead of the Superbowl. I didn't even know who some of the characters were, but loved watching them--like Blink.
|
|
|
Post by bud47 on Apr 30, 2019 22:25:49 GMT
He gets closure from a personal arc that started in Ironman 1, which doesnt affect the main story. I would call that fan service personally but whatever Fan service is Hulk fighting Hulkbuster or Cap wielding Mjolnir, or seeing all of the heroes lined up together charging the field against Thanos and his army, etc. It's something we've always wanted to see in these films and they delivered. Tony finally getting to say goodbye to his father and getting catharsis from that moment is character development. See the difference?
|
|
remusgrey
Freshman
@remusgrey
Posts: 67
Likes: 25
|
Post by remusgrey on Apr 30, 2019 23:54:31 GMT
Damn, I still hope Hulk will return in future MCU movies like Thor will. I can understand why they made Thor more comedic here (though I hated how they "closed" his arc and he wasn't as badass in the final battle as he was in Ragnarok and IW) but I gotta agree sith Hulk. If his last three appearances feature a mini-trilogy arc, they could've made him go out in a badass way. What was IW setting up for him then if he wouldn't be given another chance to fight Thanos then? Hell, I even completely forgot what he was doing Endgame other than him wielding the gauntlet to revive the dead and the time travel test thing.
I liked both movies but I'm not gonna lie, I felt the stakes more in DOFP than in Endgame. The use of time travel in Endgame felt more like a win-win situaion imo.
|
|
|
Post by seahawksraawk00 on May 1, 2019 3:31:50 GMT
You're like DC-Fan and summers8 rolled up into one. Obviously you're free to have an opinion and you can compare characters and plot points, but before you start criticizing the time travel elements, keep in mind it's not real and every film that deals with it does it's own thing with it, whether it makes sense or not. There's a lot to nitpick about how DoFP handles time travel that I'd argue moreso than Endgame.
|
|
|
Post by coldenhaulfield on May 1, 2019 3:58:17 GMT
|
|
|
Post by charzhino on May 1, 2019 10:38:00 GMT
before you start criticizing the time travel elements, keep in mind it's not real and every film that deals with it does it's own thing with it, whether it makes sense or not. There's a lot to nitpick about how DoFP handles time travel that I'd argue moreso than Endgame. Of course its not real, but writing of timetravel takes skill which Russos showed they have not. Sorry but DOFPs timetravel writing is more cleaner and il show you why Endgames is so sloppy in another thread
|
|
|
Post by kuatorises on May 1, 2019 13:43:50 GMT
But the OP's fake attempt at a conversation is? I don't know what Hobo said, but you deleted it, yet you fake ass mods don't do dick about the rampant trolling here. Fuck your lectures if you aren't going to do anything about the state of this board. You're being overly sensitive. Theres nothing wrong with this topic, he has his issues and he explained them, that's not trolling. Trolling would be if he made the topic and all it contained was "Lol this movie sux and is a kiddie ripoff of X-Men DOFP". Don't mistake criticism for trolling.
|
|
|
Post by kuatorises on May 1, 2019 13:49:54 GMT
Well he was considerate enough to PM me before he made the thread to make sure it's title wouldn't count as a spoiler for other people. A troll would spoil it on purpose. A troll would constantly post negativity for the sake of starting an argument because they're miserable. His criticisms don't even make sense. He says there's no reason for the two Caps to fight each other and Tony's conversation with his dad is just an Easter egg. Both statements are false and his entire argument is hypocritical. The action is somehow unnecessary to the plot and so are the character moments? I don't want you to ban him or stop him from posting, I know how to use the block feature. But it's disingenuous to argue his behavior isn't trollish. Their behavior is ignored – and as you pointed out, defended – so often around here that it's a very fair to question the motives of the mods and admin here. I mean, why does this place even exist? You certainly can't have a conversation here. Trolls are everywhere, but they own this board, the DC, and Star Wars ones. That shouldn't be, but nobody here with any authority to do anything about it gives a shit.
|
|