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Post by DC-Fan on Jun 26, 2019 17:14:02 GMT
if said bank robber has both arms filled with gym bags full of cash and is running out the door and someone shoots them in the back of the head it's murder No, if the cops order him to stop and he refuses to stop, then shooting him isn't considered murder. It's no different than if a suspect is fleeing in a car and the cops try to shoot out the tires but instead end up shooting the suspect and killing the suspect. That isn't murder either because the suspect fled and refused to surrender peacefully. Fleeing from law enforcement is considered part of the act of committing a crime so it isn't murder to shoot at a fleeing suspect. if a cop see's a known wheelman sitting anxiously infront of a bank in a car with no plates whilst an obvious bank robbery is taking place, if that cops shoots that driver who has both hands on the wheel presenting NO immediate danger then it's murder You're correct in that case. If the driver makes no attempt to flee, then the cop isn't allowed to shoot him. But if the driver sees the cop approaching the car and suddenly drives away, the cop is allowed to shoot and if the driver is killed in the gunfire, that's not murder. Because the driver was attempting to flee and fleeing from a law enforcement officer is considered part of the act of committing a crime. cap didn't kill Strucker you moron Cap threw his shield, made of the strongest metal on Earth, into Strucker so hard that Strucker's body bounced off the brick wall behind him before his corpse fell to the ground. So Cap definitely dealt a fatal blow to Strucker. Cap's shield is strong enough to stop Thor's hammer. Do you actually think that throwing a hammer at a normal human being so hard that he bounces off a brick wall behind him isn't a fatal blow? Was Strucker eve shown alive again after Cap struck that fatal blow against Strucker?
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Jun 26, 2019 17:24:40 GMT
As opposed to the DCEU where Batman decides he gets to play judger and jury and executioner to anyone he likes, Wonder Woman kills whenever she wants, Aquaman leaves a man to drown to death he decided that was a fitting punishment.
You don't get to have it both way retard, by Batman, Aquaman & Diana deciding the fate of criminals they are asserting their will over the justice system, it's no fucking different than what you are bitching about with Steve Rogers, except with that it's 1 character doing so to protect his best friend from unlawful detainment and attempted murder and with the DCEU it's just them deciding yeah fuck it I decide this shit outright...you fucking plank.
Like I said, Batman killed criminals who were committing crimes. That's not murder nor is it asserting will over the justice system. Since you still don't understand the difference, I'll try to explain it to you slowly. If a bank robber takes a hostage and threatens to kill the hostage and a cop shoots and kills the bank robber during the robbery, that's not murder nor exerting any will over the justice system. Because the bank robber was committing a crime when the cop shot and killed him. Now if a criminal was in custody (like Lee Harvey Oswald was) and someone shot and killed him (like Jack Ruby did), then that is murder. Because the suspect wasn't in the act of committing a crime when he was shot and killed. And in fact, a jury of the people did find Jack Ruby guilty of murder. The criminals that Batman killed were committing a crime. Unlike Strucker in Age of Ultron. Strucker was just standing there, unarmed and made no attempt to attack Captain America. Yet Cap just threw his shield, made of the strongest metal on Earth and strong enough o stop Thor's hammer, into an unarmed and defenseless man who wasn't in the act of committing a crime so hard that the man literally bounced off the brick wall behind him before his corpse fell to the ground. If two car thieves pull into my driveway I can just blow them away, no questions asked?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2019 17:25:37 GMT
Definitely the MCU. It's filled with characters that can't become heroes fast enough. Recruitment is at a premium. Sam for example jumps at the chance to get back in because Captain America needs his help. Wanda and Pietro are recruited in the middle of a fire fight, Bruce Banner casually strolls back into the fight; the semiretired keep coming out of retirement and Nick Fury comes back from the dead. Everybody wants to be an Avenger, or a Guardian.
It reminds me of real life. Who knows how many people are quietly suffering boring lives but when a hurricane or flood occurs, these same people become instant heroes taking their canoes to rescue people off of rooftops, rescue people's pets, and do all they can.
In the DCEU, the only character that really struck that note was Wonder Woman. She couldn't wait to get in the game, be a hero, help the less fortunate. Batman and Superman on the other hand look like they're the night shift taking over a filthy kitchen; heroes under duress. Superman has all the power in the world and his face says it's a burden. Ben Affleck's Batman is the first Batman that made me think he could do more to fight crime with his wealth than satisfying a need to fight crime with violence. None of the other Batman actors gave me that vibe.
Aquaman has his moments, but the DCEU's big guns are grimacing, reluctant heroes who look like they don't give a shit; but they're suffocating under the weight of the expectations they create for themselves, and the MCU is filled with characters trying to cut to the front of the line to be heroes. Thanos snapped away half of all life once and I still feel safer in their universe because I don't think Captain America would be rolling his eyes while trying to save me.
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Post by Nicko's Nose on Jun 26, 2019 17:28:32 GMT
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Post by dazz on Jun 26, 2019 17:31:59 GMT
if said bank robber has both arms filled with gym bags full of cash and is running out the door and someone shoots them in the back of the head it's murder No, if the cops order him to stop and he refuses to stop, then shooting him isn't considered murder. It's no different than if a suspect is fleeing in a car and the cops try to shoot out the tires but instead end up shooting the suspect and killing the suspect. That isn't murder either because the suspect fled and refused to surrender peacefully. Fleeing from law enforcement is considered part of the act of committing a crime so it isn't murder to shoot at a fleeing suspect. if a cop see's a known wheelman sitting anxiously infront of a bank in a car with no plates whilst an obvious bank robbery is taking place, if that cops shoots that driver who has both hands on the wheel presenting NO immediate danger then it's murder You're correct in that case. If the driver makes no attempt to flee, then the cop isn't allowed to shoot him. But if the driver sees the cop approaching the car and suddenly drives away, the cop is allowed to shoot and if the driver is killed in the gunfire, that's not murder. Because the driver was attempting to flee and fleeing from a law enforcement officer is considered part of the act of committing a crime. cap didn't kill Strucker you moron Cap threw his shield, made of the strongest metal on Earth, into Strucker so hard that Strucker's body bounced off the brick wall behind him before his corpse fell to the ground. So Cap definitely dealt a fatal blow to Strucker. Cap's shield is strong enough to stop Thor's hammer. Do you actually think that throwing a hammer at a normal human being so hard that he bounces off a brick wall behind him isn't a fatal blow? Was Strucker eve shown alive again after Cap struck that fatal blow against Strucker?
According to the Fleeing Felon Law it supposedly says Under U.S. law the fleeing felon rule was limited in 1985 to non-lethal force in most cases by Tennessee v. Garner, 471 U.S. 1. The justices held that deadly force "may not be used unless necessary to prevent the escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious bodily harm to the officer or others."[2]
And also the events of Civil War where Bucky is pursued happen in Romania where in it is only legal for Police to use firearms AT ALL after they announce themselves and warn a suspect to stop or they will shoot, or if they pose an imminent and deadly threat, neither of which occurs in Civil War, they bust into his home unannounced firing weapons, a helicopter comes out of nowhere opening fire with a mini gun at Bucky and some unknown person.
If a person tries fleeing the scene via car, most likely driving recklessly they pose an imminent threat so using lethal force maybe required, it's also not 100% guaranteed that's what you were trying to do they are in a car afterall, a warning shot if the driver swerves at the wrong time could become a killshot.
Still none of this justifies Batman straight up murdering people because he wants to STEAL something from them so he can MURDER Superman, you fucking dipshit.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jun 26, 2019 17:34:28 GMT
Definitely the MCU. It's filled with characters that can't become heroes fast enough. Recruitment is at a premium. Sam for example jumps at the chance to get back in because Captain America needs his help. Wanda and Pietro are recruited in the middle of a fire fight, Bruce Banner casually strolls back into the fight; the semiretired keep coming out of retirement and Nick Fury comes back from the dead. Everybody wants to be an Avenger, or a Guardian.
the MCU is filled with characters trying to cut to the front of the line
Because being an Avenger means they can do whatever they want without any checks or balances or oversight or being held accountable for anything. That's why they all want to join. Cap: A trial by a jury of the people? Fuck that. The Avengers are more powerful than the people so the Avengers won't be judged by the people. Ant-Man: House arrest? Fuck that. I'll go where I want when I want because I don't give a shit about honoring my plea agreement.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jun 26, 2019 17:36:15 GMT
Like I said, Batman killed criminals who were committing crimes. That's not murder nor is it asserting will over the justice system. Since you still don't understand the difference, I'll try to explain it to you slowly. If a bank robber takes a hostage and threatens to kill the hostage and a cop shoots and kills the bank robber during the robbery, that's not murder nor exerting any will over the justice system. Because the bank robber was committing a crime when the cop shot and killed him. Now if a criminal was in custody (like Lee Harvey Oswald was) and someone shot and killed him (like Jack Ruby did), then that is murder. Because the suspect wasn't in the act of committing a crime when he was shot and killed. And in fact, a jury of the people did find Jack Ruby guilty of murder. The criminals that Batman killed were committing a crime. Unlike Strucker in Age of Ultron. Strucker was just standing there, unarmed and made no attempt to attack Captain America. Yet Cap just threw his shield, made of the strongest metal on Earth and strong enough o stop Thor's hammer, into an unarmed and defenseless man who wasn't in the act of committing a crime so hard that the man literally bounced off the brick wall behind him before his corpse fell to the ground. No stupid it's not considered murder if the bank robber posses a clear and present danger to you or others, then it's self defence or in the defence of another person, if said bank robber has both arms filled with gym bags full of cash and is running out the door and someone shoots them in the back of the head it's murder, same if a cop see's a known wheelman sitting anxiously infront of a bank in a car with no plates whilst an obvious bank robbery is taking place, if that cops shoots that driver who has both hands on the wheel presenting NO immediate danger then it's murder or a blatant over use of force at the very least.
The people protecting the kryptonite aren't criminals for all we know doing illegal things, Kryptonite isn't illegal in the DCEU, sure maybe they were smuggling it in but smuggling a greet rock isn't a capital offense, and even if it was Batman does not have the right to kill people because of it without trial, again he made the choice they are criminals, they deserve to die it's the same thing you a whining about you fucking stupid WAFFLE.
Also cap didn't kill Strucker you moron, jesus fucking Christ he is killed later in the film by either Ultron or the twins, get yah facts straight you ignorant shithead.
DC-Fan, my fellow American, how does it feel to be owned by an Englishman who used the word "whilst" in his argument to soundly defeat you? I was going to use the word trounce as opposed to defeat, but I didn't want to make matters worse.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2019 17:38:21 GMT
Definitely the MCU. It's filled with characters that can't become heroes fast enough. Recruitment is at a premium. Sam for example jumps at the chance to get back in because Captain America needs his help. Wanda and Pietro are recruited in the middle of a fire fight, Bruce Banner casually strolls back into the fight; the semiretired keep coming out of retirement and Nick Fury comes back from the dead. Everybody wants to be an Avenger, or a Guardian.
the MCU is filled with characters trying to cut to the front of the line
Because being an Avenger means they can do whatever they want without any checks or balances or oversight or being held accountable for anything. That's why they all want to join. Cap: A trial by a jury of the people? Fuck that. The Avengers are more powerful than the people so the Avengers won't be judged by the people. Ant-Man: House arrest? Fuck that. I'll go where I want when I want because I don't give a shit about honoring my plea agreement. It's what heroes do. Even cops, ambulance and fire trucks have some leeway running red lights.
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Post by justanaveragejoe on Jun 26, 2019 17:39:36 GMT
Someone should tell him that he should flip the good and bad around.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jun 26, 2019 17:41:55 GMT
Because being an Avenger means they can do whatever they want without any checks or balances or oversight or being held accountable for anything. That's why they all want to join. Cap: A trial by a jury of the people? Fuck that. The Avengers are more powerful than the people so the Avengers won't be judged by the people. Ant-Man: House arrest? Fuck that. I'll go where I want when I want because I don't give a shit about honoring my plea agreement. It's what heroes do. Even cops, ambulance and fire trucks have some leeway running red lights. Not cops, parademics, and firemen who are on suspension for committing another crime of misdemeanor. Ant-Man violating house arrest is like a cop who's on suspension continuing to carry his gun and working cases that he's been removed from.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2019 17:45:54 GMT
It's what heroes do. Even cops, ambulance and fire trucks have some leeway running red lights. Not cops, parademics, and firemen who are on suspension for committing another crime of misdemeanor. Ant-Man violating house arrest is like a cop who's on suspension continuing to carry his gun and working cases that he's been removed from. Well when he shows up to save your life, you could always send him away because he's not supposed to be there.
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Post by sostie on Jun 26, 2019 19:00:04 GMT
cap didn't kill Strucker you moron Cap threw his shield, made of the strongest metal on Earth, into Strucker so hard that Strucker's body bounced off the brick wall behind him before his corpse fell to the ground. So Cap definitely dealt a fatal blow to Strucker. Cap's shield is strong enough to stop Thor's hammer. Do you actually think that throwing a hammer at a normal human being so hard that he bounces off a brick wall behind him isn't a fatal blow? Was Strucker eve shown alive again after Cap struck that fatal blow against Strucker? Not seeing much throwing or bouncing here And did Cap's shield do this Maybe it's magic. Do you think the people that made the shield makes boats as well?
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Post by Skaathar on Jun 26, 2019 20:50:20 GMT
2. You provided no proof why MCU characters have no choice. You just spouted some made-up nonsense. I didn't make it up. Banner confirmed it in Endgame. No he didn't. Please quote exactly what Banner said where he supposedly confirms that someone can't change the future.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Jun 26, 2019 21:01:04 GMT
You know what universe I’d want to live in? The Raimi Spider-Man universe!
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Post by thisguy4000 on Jun 26, 2019 21:06:35 GMT
Like I said, Batman killed criminals who were committing crimes. That's not murder nor is it asserting will over the justice system. Since you still don't understand the difference, I'll try to explain it to you slowly. If a bank robber takes a hostage and threatens to kill the hostage and a cop shoots and kills the bank robber during the robbery, that's not murder nor exerting any will over the justice system. Because the bank robber was committing a crime when the cop shot and killed him. Now if a criminal was in custody (like Lee Harvey Oswald was) and someone shot and killed him (like Jack Ruby did), then that is murder. Because the suspect wasn't in the act of committing a crime when he was shot and killed. And in fact, a jury of the people did find Jack Ruby guilty of murder. The criminals that Batman killed were committing a crime. Unlike Strucker in Age of Ultron. Strucker was just standing there, unarmed and made no attempt to attack Captain America. Yet Cap just threw his shield, made of the strongest metal on Earth and strong enough o stop Thor's hammer, into an unarmed and defenseless man who wasn't in the act of committing a crime so hard that the man literally bounced off the brick wall behind him before his corpse fell to the ground. No stupid it's not considered murder if the bank robber posses a clear and present danger to you or others, then it's self defence or in the defence of another person, if said bank robber has both arms filled with gym bags full of cash and is running out the door and someone shoots them in the back of the head it's murder, same if a cop see's a known wheelman sitting anxiously infront of a bank in a car with no plates whilst an obvious bank robbery is taking place, if that cops shoots that driver who has both hands on the wheel presenting NO immediate danger then it's murder or a blatant over use of force at the very least.
The people protecting the kryptonite aren't criminals for all we know doing illegal things, Kryptonite isn't illegal in the DCEU, sure maybe they were smuggling it in but smuggling a greet rock isn't a capital offense, and even if it was Batman does not have the right to kill people because of it without trial, again he made the choice they are criminals, they deserve to die it's the same thing you a whining about you fucking stupid WAFFLE.
Also cap didn't kill Strucker you moron, jesus fucking Christ he is killed later in the film by either Ultron or the twins, get yah facts straight you ignorant shithead.
I should just point out that the people transporting the kryptonite were working for KGBeast. That would definitely make them criminals.
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Post by dazz on Jun 26, 2019 21:19:13 GMT
No stupid it's not considered murder if the bank robber posses a clear and present danger to you or others, then it's self defence or in the defence of another person, if said bank robber has both arms filled with gym bags full of cash and is running out the door and someone shoots them in the back of the head it's murder, same if a cop see's a known wheelman sitting anxiously infront of a bank in a car with no plates whilst an obvious bank robbery is taking place, if that cops shoots that driver who has both hands on the wheel presenting NO immediate danger then it's murder or a blatant over use of force at the very least.
The people protecting the kryptonite aren't criminals for all we know doing illegal things, Kryptonite isn't illegal in the DCEU, sure maybe they were smuggling it in but smuggling a greet rock isn't a capital offense, and even if it was Batman does not have the right to kill people because of it without trial, again he made the choice they are criminals, they deserve to die it's the same thing you a whining about you fucking stupid WAFFLE.
Also cap didn't kill Strucker you moron, jesus fucking Christ he is killed later in the film by either Ultron or the twins, get yah facts straight you ignorant shithead.
I should just point out that the people transporting the kryptonite were working for KGBeast. That would definitely make them criminals. No it wouldn't, working ofr him doing criminal activity would make them criminals, lots of people have been employed by criminals, doesn't make them criminals also.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Jun 26, 2019 21:33:55 GMT
I should just point out that the people transporting the kryptonite were working for KGBeast. That would definitely make them criminals. No it wouldn't, working ofr him doing criminal activity would make them criminals, lots of people have been employed by criminals, doesn't make them criminals also.
Didn’t the film establish that KGBeast was involved with things like arms dealings and human trafficking?
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Post by dazz on Jun 26, 2019 22:03:01 GMT
No it wouldn't, working ofr him doing criminal activity would make them criminals, lots of people have been employed by criminals, doesn't make them criminals also.
Didn’t the film establish that KGBeast was involved with things like arms dealings and human trafficking? Dunno probably, but just working for him doesn't make you a criminal, criminals hire people all the time to do normal things, that doesn't make them criminals themselves, like I said what they were doing when Batman attacked them was transporting the kryptonite, that's not illegal, well if they smuggled it then yeah that's illegal but we don't know if that's the case off the top of my head, Lex hired criminals like KGBeast to do things, and Lex himself was a criminal but that doesn't mean every dipshit working in his company were criminals also, Batman ie Bruce Wayne is a vigilante, that doesn't make everyone working for Wayne Enterprises or Wayne Tech or Wayne Wank and Wobbles whatever the fuck it's called this time around...I went off topic, but yeah just because Bruce is a vigilante doesn't make ALL his employee's vigilantes, Alfred is fair game, so is Lucius but the copy boy or the junior co deputy regional area division head in charge of stuff isn't one just by association.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Jun 26, 2019 22:18:52 GMT
Didn’t the film establish that KGBeast was involved with things like arms dealings and human trafficking? Dunno probably, but just working for him doesn't make you a criminal, criminals hire people all the time to do normal things, that doesn't make them criminals themselves, like I said what they were doing when Batman attacked them was transporting the kryptonite, that's not illegal, well if they smuggled it then yeah that's illegal but we don't know if that's the case off the top of my head, Lex hired criminals like KGBeast to do things, and Lex himself was a criminal but that doesn't mean every dipshit working in his company were criminals also, Batman ie Bruce Wayne is a vigilante, that doesn't make everyone working for Wayne Enterprises or Wayne Tech or Wayne Wank and Wobbles whatever the fuck it's called this time around...I went off topic, but yeah just because Bruce is a vigilante doesn't make ALL his employee's vigilantes, Alfred is fair game, so is Lucius but the copy boy or the junior co deputy regional area division head in charge of stuff isn't one just by association. It’s been a while since I’ve seen the film, but weren’t they smuggling the kryptonite? Didn’t Senator Finch block the export?
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Post by damngumby on Jun 26, 2019 22:28:08 GMT
She still has to choose that path. It's similar to ... ... those carnival rides for little kiddies, where the car can weave back and forth along a fixed track, but the destination is always the same. If you're destine to do something in the DCEU, you will eventually do it. You have no choice. That is what destiny means. DC-Fraud has destroyed his own thread! LOL!
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