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Post by damngumby on Jun 30, 2019 11:10:55 GMT
If you don't like BTTF, we can look at another example. In The City of the Edge of Forever, McCoy goes back in time and saves Edith Keeler from dying in a traffic accident. Edith Keeler then goes on to lead a peace movement that delays the US from entering WW2 and allows the Nazis to develop the atomic bomb first and win the war. If Kirk stops McCoy from saving Edith Keeler, then Edith Keeler dies and the original timeline is restored. But if Kirk doesn't stop McCoy from saving Edith Keeler, then Edith Keeler lives AND millions of people would've died. So McCoy changing the original timeline not only changes Edith Keeler's future but also changes the future for millions of people. It's not a million separate timelines, one for each individual, in which the Nazis win the war. It's just 1 timeline, in which millions of people's futures are changed by the Nazis winning the war. If one were to apply the MCU time travel rules to that Star Trek episode, then McCoy would have created a new timeline when he went back in time and saved Edith Keeler. The original timeline would have been unaltered (the original Edith Keeler would still be road kill) and the Star Trek crew would have no idea that anything had happened. (There would be just two timelines, not millions.) This avoids the paradoxical (and nonsensical) nature of being able to travel back in time and change the past of your own timeline. No, the Endgame writers were using a different set of rules. Like different sci-fi movies use different rules of space travel (warp drive, wormholes, hyperspace, sub-light ... etc.) There is absolutely no problem with any of that, because ... fiction.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jun 30, 2019 12:02:52 GMT
Yes, you can travel to the future. Marty traveled from 1985 to 2015. Even the Avengers traveled to the future in Endgame. They traveled to the past to retrieve the stones. Then they traveled to the future (2023) with the stones. And past Thanos also traveled to the future (2023). In the MCU, you can not travel to the future of any particular timeline. It doesn't exist. wrong!!! Yes, you can travel to the future. Marty traveled from 1985 to 2015. Even the Avengers traveled to the future in Endgame. They traveled to the past to retrieve the stones. Then they traveled to the future (2023) with the stones. And past Thanos also traveled to the future (2023). For people in the 1970s, 2023 IS the future. And the Avengers traveled from the 1970s to 2023. Heck, even past Thanos and his entire army traveled to the future so not only does the future already exists but it's possible to travel forward in time to the future. At least that's the rule established in Endgame. So according to the rules of Endgame, since Banner said they can't change the past, then those same rules also mean that they can't change the present or the future since the future is just the past to someone in the future. It should be obvious that the MCU universe has multiple timelines. Each timeline consists of an unalterable past, a present moment (the point in time in which events occur) that is advancing through time at the same rate as the other timelines, and it's own indeterminate future that has yet to exist. That's it. Simple! The Avengers never traveled beyond the present moment of the original timeline. They traveled to the past, created some new timelines, and then traveled back to the present moment of the original timeline. WRONG AGAIN!! For past Thanos and his entire army, their present isn't 2023. Their present is 2014. But they were able to travel from 2014 to 2023 so 2023 already existed for 2014 Thanos and his entire army. Just like 2024 already exists for them and 2025 already exists for them and every future year beyond that already exists for them.
So not only does the future already exists but it's possible to travel forward in time to the future. At least that's the rule established in Endgame. So according to the rules of Endgame, since Banner said they can't change the past, then those same rules also mean that they can't change the present or the future since the future is just the past to someone in the future.So according to Banner (and the Endgame writers), everything in MCU is already pre-determined and set in stone and no one in MCU has any free will to change their path. Like I said, don't blame me for that. That's how the Endgame writers wrote that. So if you have a complaint about that, then take that up with the Endgame writers.
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Post by dazz on Jun 30, 2019 14:21:10 GMT
DC-Fan You do realise that the Star Trek rules for time travel are not the same as the BTTF rules for time travel right? Yes the both exist in dynamic timelines, but where BTTF exists in a correcting dynamic times, where Marty's ceasing to exist is show to happen by him and his family fading away in the picture and him outright fading away, which BTW is a rule they later break even in the first film as Marty should have his memories overwritten by the new timeline, he shouldn't know the timeline where his dad was a wimp, and Biff shouldn't be able to travel to the future he left after he went back in time to give his younger self the almanac, once he did this he changes the future he would return to, meaning he couldn't return the car and Doc & Marty would fade away if they didn't break their own rules, wanna talk about plotholes that's BTTF. Star Trek atleast allows for this as time doesn't self correct, you can make changes in the past that do not effect you as you are, they alter the future though or your present as it were effectively doing the opposite of the BTTF method where time overwrites you, instead you overwrite that timelines version of you and take their place, you from Timeline A exist in the B timeline, multiple timelines exist hut only one at a time and you as a time traveller escape the changes of the timelines. But BTTF & Star Trek are not the same thing in terms of time travel, they have different rules though they use the same base premise that being time is fluid, which means you cannot argue Star Trek did it right and BTTF did it right but Endgame did it wrong because they used a different set of rules, because Star Trek and BTTF don't use the same rules you dipstick.
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Post by damngumby on Jun 30, 2019 14:48:38 GMT
In the MCU, you can not travel to the future of any particular timeline. It doesn't exist. wrong!!! Yes, you can travel to the future. Marty traveled from 1985 to 2015. You must be fucking retarded. How many times have you been told that Marty doesn't exist in the MCU. The BTTF time travel rules do not apply to the MCU. Thanos 2 traveled to 2023 of the original timeline. There was no 2023 in his own timeline yet. The present moment of that timeline was 2014 and it's future was undetermined. The present moment of the original timeline was 2023 and it's future was undetermined. Sorry, cupcake. You've got it all completely wrong ... and you've dug yourself a deep enough hole that you can never get out, even if the fog were to suddenly lift from your mind. I gave it the ol' college try ... tried to explain it to you using small words ... but you are as dense as I knew you to be. Have fun fuming that the MCU makes no sense to everyone who completely understands it. We have a place for guys like you - on the short bus.
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Post by ThatGuy on Jun 30, 2019 17:35:59 GMT
Nebula 2014 opened a gate in 2023 to her original point in time and Thanos traveled through it And that is why Endgame is a HUGE PLOTHOLE. Because 2014 Nebula can access 2023 Nebulas memories so 2014 Nebula would already know that 2014 Thanos traveled with his entire army to 2023 and was defeated in 2023. That means 2014 Thanos would also know that and thus wouldn't have traveled with his entire army to 2023 and instead would've just traveled to 2018 and killed Tony Stark right after Strange gave Thanos the time stone in 2018. That's why the entire plot of Endgame doesn't work at all. Some MCU fans who are slow at understanding it try to defend the bad writing in Endgame by saying "Well, when 2014 Nebula accessed 2023 Nebula's memories, the end of the movie hadn't happened yet so 2023 Nebula wouldn't have those memories yet." All that shows is that MCU fans just don't understand the concept of time. When Marty traveled to October 2015, he saw a sign that said the Cubs won the World Series. If Marty had traveled a few months further to February 2016, he might have seen a sign or a newspaper headline that said the Broncos won Super Bowl 50. Would MCU fans say "Well, Marty couldn't have traveled to February 2016 because that hadn't happened yet in the movie"?
October 2015 and February 2016 are both just future points in time to 1985 Marty so 1985 Marty could've traveled to either of those points in time. Similarly, 2023 Nebula's memories an hour into the movie (when the Avengers are trying to retrieve the stones in the past) and 2023 Nebula's memories at the end of the movie (when Thanos and his entire army are defeated in 2023) are just future points in time to 2014 Nebula so 2014 Nebula could've accessed either of those memory points.
So 2014 Nebula would already know that 2014 Thanos traveled with his entire army to 2023 and was defeated in 2023. That means 2014 Thanos would also know that and thus wouldn't have traveled with his entire army to 2023 and instead would've just traveled to 2018 and killed Tony Stark right after Strange gave Thanos the time stone in 2018. That's why the entire plot of Endgame doesn't work at all.
Nope, cause 2014 Nebula is from a different timeline. This is how the multiverse works. Once they knocked out Quill they created a new timeline. You are still looking at it like in Back to the Future. And I think you are doing it on purpose to troll. The characters don't become the other. There is no fading because they changed the past. 2023 Nebula is a totally different person from the 2014 one. They might have had the same starting point, but once 2014 Nebula's signal integrated with 2023's they became 2 different people. 2023 Nebula did not go to the future and bring Thanos to 2023.
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Post by ThatGuy on Jun 30, 2019 17:37:35 GMT
wrong!!! Yes, you can travel to the future. Marty traveled from 1985 to 2015. You must be fucking retarded. How many times have you been told that Marty doesn't exist in the MCU. The BTTF time travel rules do not apply to the MCU. Thanos 2 traveled to 2023 of the original timeline. There was no 2023 in his own timeline yet. The present moment of that timeline was 2014 and it's future was undetermined. The present moment of the original timeline was 2023 and it's future was undetermined. Sorry, cupcake. You've got it all completely wrong ... and you've dug yourself a deep enough hole that you can never get out, even if the fog were to suddenly lift from your mind. I gave it the ol' college try ... tried to explain it to you using small words ... but you are as dense as I knew you to be. Have fun fuming that the MCU makes no sense to everyone who completely understands it. We have a place for guys like you - on the short bus. Yeah, I think he's doing it on purpose now. No one can be that stupid.
Either that or he is the perfect MCU shill. He gets us to talk about the MCU and argue for it.
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Post by Skaathar on Jun 30, 2019 17:57:58 GMT
In the MCU, you can not travel to the future of any particular timeline. It doesn't exist. wrong!!! Yes, you can travel to the future. Marty traveled from 1985 to 2015. Even the Avengers traveled to the future in Endgame. They traveled to the past to retrieve the stones. Then they traveled to the future (2023) with the stones. And past Thanos also traveled to the future (2023). For people in the 1970s, 2023 IS the future. And the Avengers traveled from the 1970s to 2023. Heck, even past Thanos and his entire army traveled to the future so not only does the future already exists but it's possible to travel forward in time to the future. At least that's the rule established in Endgame. So according to the rules of Endgame, since Banner said they can't change the past, then those same rules also mean that they can't change the present or the future since the future is just the past to someone in the future. It should be obvious that the MCU universe has multiple timelines. Each timeline consists of an unalterable past, a present moment (the point in time in which events occur) that is advancing through time at the same rate as the other timelines, and it's own indeterminate future that has yet to exist. That's it. Simple! The Avengers never traveled beyond the present moment of the original timeline. They traveled to the past, created some new timelines, and then traveled back to the present moment of the original timeline. WRONG AGAIN!! For past Thanos and his entire army, their present isn't 2023. Their present is 2014. But they were able to travel from 2014 to 2023 so 2023 already existed for 2014 Thanos and his entire army. Just like 2024 already exists for them and 2025 already exists for them and every future year beyond that already exists for them.
So not only does the future already exists but it's possible to travel forward in time to the future. At least that's the rule established in Endgame. So according to the rules of Endgame, since Banner said they can't change the past, then those same rules also mean that they can't change the present or the future since the future is just the past to someone in the future.So according to Banner (and the Endgame writers), everything in MCU is already pre-determined and set in stone and no one in MCU has any free will to change their path. Like I said, don't blame me for that. That's how the Endgame writers wrote that. So if you have a complaint about that, then take that up with the Endgame writers. Liar. When will you stop making stuff up?
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Post by damngumby on Jun 30, 2019 18:17:49 GMT
So, it appears that we have an unanimous decision!
DC-Fan is wrong.
He has failed to comprehend the MCU time travel rules and he has repeatedly misapplied other rules from other movies.
As to why he is so wrong, well, it looks like we have a split decision on that one. Liar or retard ... you decide.
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Post by dazz on Jun 30, 2019 18:43:17 GMT
Split the difference he's a retarded liar, that way we all win except for him as usual.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jun 30, 2019 20:34:09 GMT
This thread is like a university where there are hundreds of teachers and only a single, developmentally disabled student.
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Post by poutinep on Jun 30, 2019 21:05:14 GMT
This thread is like a university where there are hundreds of teachers and only a single, developmentally disabled student. This is his M.O. He makes a ridiculous assertion, nobody agrees with him, and 4-5 people try to tell him he's wrong meanwhile he acts like everyone is an idiot except him...
He hasn't even watched Homecoming or Captain Marvel or Endgame... probably others, but those are the ones he has proved he hasn't seen.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jul 1, 2019 4:46:25 GMT
This thread is like a university where there are hundreds of teachers and only a single, developmentally disabled student. This is his M.O. He makes a ridiculous assertion, nobody agrees with him, and 4-5 people try to tell him he's wrong meanwhile he acts like everyone is an idiot except him...
He hasn't even watched Homecoming or Captain Marvel or Endgame... probably others, but those are the ones he has proved he hasn't seen.
Where’s DC-Fan ’s two-man fan club? Power Ranger and Nexus, your boy really needs you right now.
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