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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2019 8:17:03 GMT
Ok, so just know this that I have not seen Endgame.
I have seen a TON of negative feedback in terms of "Fat Thor". From what I have read Thor is depressed in terms of not getting the job done (not going for the head). So he became a joke because he fell into alcoholism I guess. To me, this all seems like real life issues. Seems to me that Thor is suffering from survivors guilt. This just throws me into the guard of people who don't think depression is an issue. This resonates with me. Depression is a real thing.
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thenolan
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Post by thenolan on Jul 21, 2019 8:22:00 GMT
It was bad. Very uncalled for, for the character.
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Post by James on Jul 21, 2019 10:50:42 GMT
I don’t understand the negative reaction either. Not only did he fail to defeat the most powerful being he and his friends ever had to face, but he lost his whole family and people before that. Of course he’s gonna end up being depressed and would reduce to drinking and playing Fortnite.
I thought that scene where we first see him was funny and when Thor breaks down after Banner merely mentions Thanos’ name to him, it’s upsetting in an effective manner.
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Post by merh on Jul 21, 2019 13:45:18 GMT
I don’t understand the negative reaction either. Not only did he fail to defeat the most powerful being he and his friends ever had to face, but he lost his whole family and people before that. Of course he’s gonna end up being depressed and would reduce to drinking and playing Fortnite. Sorry. Superheroes are not interchangeable lego bricks. Each has an identity. What the Russos did to Thor was Tony Stark's thing, not Thor's thing. Thor would not turn into Volstag who in less than a day downed 4 wild boar, 6 phesants, a side of beef & 2 casks of ale without affecting his waistline (meaning a dozen cans of cheese whiz wouldnt do crap to Thor's weight) Why kill The Warriors Three in Ragnarok if the Russos were going to turn Thor into Volstagg? It's not Thor. www.themarysue.com/j-michael-straczynski-thor-in-avengers-endgame/Really, the whole script was lazy as hell. They not only screwed up Thor, they failed Cap. Did they not bother to watch all the movies? Do they forget how hard Steve Rogers tried to sacrifice himself to save others. So, sorry, no. As much as he wants to have a happily ever after with Peggy, he can't. He can't live with the idea of people crushed by the bully because he had to get the girl.
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Post by James on Jul 21, 2019 14:13:20 GMT
I don’t understand the negative reaction either. Not only did he fail to defeat the most powerful being he and his friends ever had to face, but he lost his whole family and people before that. Of course he’s gonna end up being depressed and would reduce to drinking and playing Fortnite. Sorry. Superheroes are not interchangeable lego bricks. Each has an identity. What the Russos did to Thor was Tony Stark's thing, not Thor's thing. Thor would not turn into Volstag who in less than a day downed 4 wild boar, 6 phesants, a side of beef & 2 casks of ale without affecting his waistline (meaning a dozen cans of cheese whiz wouldnt do crap to Thor's weight) Why kill The Warriors Three in Ragnarok if the Russos were going to turn Thor into Volstagg? It's not Thor. www.themarysue.com/j-michael-straczynski-thor-in-avengers-endgame/Really, the whole script was lazy as hell. They not only screwed up Thor, they failed Cap. Did they not bother to watch all the movies? Do they forget how hard Steve Rogers tried to sacrifice himself to save others. So, sorry, no. As much as he wants to have a happily ever after with Peggy, he can't. He can't live with the idea of people crushed by the bully because he had to get the girl. Well your opinion is valid. It wasn’t the most creative way to handle Thor’s coping. But here’s the thing. He has been on Earth long enough to understand the way humans deal with things. After all, he’s been drinking beer since Ragnarok. I find it believable. And Cap, well he’s been through a lot. Plus, getting together with Peggy was sweet AF. |
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Post by hobowar on Jul 21, 2019 19:46:41 GMT
Probably the GREATEST MOMEMT IN CINEMATIC HISTORY!!!  From this day forward, Thor cosplayers will be a lot more accurate. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2019 19:55:03 GMT
It was decent. It was almost worth it just for the exchange between him and his mother.
It was a good execution of a storyline direction that would not have been my first choice. I liked Thor all along, but he didn't really soar for me until Ragnarok, a film that removed all doubts to how powerful he truly is.
Making him overweight, drunk and depressed wouldn't have been the direction I'd have taken his character, but what's done is done.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jul 21, 2019 20:05:36 GMT
Do they forget how hard Steve Rogers tried to sacrifice himself to save others. So, sorry, no. As much as he wants to have a happily ever after with Peggy, he can't. He can't live with the idea of people crushed by the bully because he had to get the girl. That actually fits with the selfish character that Steve Rogers has always been. Rogers has never cared about saving others or protecting others. The whole reason he joined the army was because he saw that the other enlistees were getting attention from the girls and he wanted some attention from the girls too. That's why when he found out he had been asleep for 70 years, he didn't even bother to ask "Did we win the war?" or "Who won the war?" He was only concerned about not getting a chance to bang Peggy Carter. Then in Civil War, Rogers has a chance to do the right thing and bring in a double-murderer and send a message to the people "Even though I have all these super-powers, I still believe in democracy and the justice system so I'm bringing in my best friend to face a jury of the people and let the people decide his guilt or innocence."
Instead, Cap aids and abets a double-murderer to escape from the law and basically sends the message to everyone "I don't believe in democracy or your justice system. I have super-powers so I don't have to abide by your justice system and I alone shall be judge and jury and I alone shall decide guilt or innocence. Moreover, I don't give a shit that the cops are going to have to spend valuable manpower and resources to chase after Bucky and me (thereby taking manpower and resources away from chasing after other criminals) and endanger the lives of many innocent civilians by chasing us through a crowded public street because I don't give a shit about whether innocent civilians get injured or killed."
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Post by seahawksraawk00 on Jul 21, 2019 21:47:33 GMT
Do they forget how hard Steve Rogers tried to sacrifice himself to save others. So, sorry, no. As much as he wants to have a happily ever after with Peggy, he can't. He can't live with the idea of people crushed by the bully because he had to get the girl. That actually fits with the selfish character that Steve Rogers has always been. Rogers has never cared about saving others or protecting others. The whole reason he joined the army was because he saw that the other enlistees were getting attention from the girls and he wanted some attention from the girls too. That's why when he found out he had been asleep for 70 years, he didn't even bother to ask "Did we win the war?" or "Who won the war?" He was only concerned about not getting a chance to bang Peggy Carter. Then in Civil War, Rogers has a chance to do the right thing and bring in a double-murderer and send a message to the people "Even though I have all these super-powers, I still believe in democracy and the justice system so I'm bringing in my best friend to face a jury of the people and let the people decide his guilt or innocence."
Instead, Cap aids and abets a double-murderer to escape from the law and basically sends the message to everyone "I don't believe in democracy or your justice system. I have super-powers so I don't have to abide by your justice system and I alone shall be judge and jury and I alone shall decide guilt or innocence. Moreover, I don't give a shit that the cops are going to have to spend valuable manpower and resources to chase after Bucky and me (thereby taking manpower and resources away from chasing after other criminals) and endanger the lives of many innocent civilians by chasing us through a crowded public street because I don't give a shit about whether innocent civilians get injured or killed." Clearly you didn't watch Civil War. |
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Post by justanaveragejoe on Jul 21, 2019 21:54:41 GMT
Do they forget how hard Steve Rogers tried to sacrifice himself to save others. So, sorry, no. As much as he wants to have a happily ever after with Peggy, he can't. He can't live with the idea of people crushed by the bully because he had to get the girl. That actually fits with the selfish character that Steve Rogers has always been. Rogers has never cared about saving others or protecting others. The whole reason he joined the army was because he saw that the other enlistees were getting attention from the girls and he wanted some attention from the girls too. That's why when he found out he had been asleep for 70 years, he didn't even bother to ask "Did we win the war?" or "Who won the war?" He was only concerned about not getting a chance to bang Peggy Carter. Then in Civil War, Rogers has a chance to do the right thing and bring in a double-murderer and send a message to the people "Even though I have all these super-powers, I still believe in democracy and the justice system so I'm bringing in my best friend to face a jury of the people and let the people decide his guilt or innocence."
Instead, Cap aids and abets a double-murderer to escape from the law and basically sends the message to everyone "I don't believe in democracy or your justice system. I have super-powers so I don't have to abide by your justice system and I alone shall be judge and jury and I alone shall decide guilt or innocence. Moreover, I don't give a shit that the cops are going to have to spend valuable manpower and resources to chase after Bucky and me (thereby taking manpower and resources away from chasing after other criminals) and endanger the lives of many innocent civilians by chasing us through a crowded public street because I don't give a shit about whether innocent civilians get injured or killed."
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Post by merh on Jul 21, 2019 23:01:54 GMT
Sorry. Superheroes are not interchangeable lego bricks. Each has an identity. What the Russos did to Thor was Tony Stark's thing, not Thor's thing. Thor would not turn into Volstag who in less than a day downed 4 wild boar, 6 phesants, a side of beef & 2 casks of ale without affecting his waistline (meaning a dozen cans of cheese whiz wouldnt do crap to Thor's weight) Why kill The Warriors Three in Ragnarok if the Russos were going to turn Thor into Volstagg? It's not Thor. www.themarysue.com/j-michael-straczynski-thor-in-avengers-endgame/Really, the whole script was lazy as hell. They not only screwed up Thor, they failed Cap. Did they not bother to watch all the movies? Do they forget how hard Steve Rogers tried to sacrifice himself to save others. So, sorry, no. As much as he wants to have a happily ever after with Peggy, he can't. He can't live with the idea of people crushed by the bully because he had to get the girl. Well your opinion is valid. It wasn’t the most creative way to handle Thor’s coping. But here’s the thing. He has been on Earth long 8 to understand the way humans deal with things. After all, he’s been drinking beer since Ragnarok. I find it believable. No. Far more likely he would turn into a dictator over his people to make sure no more died. Curfew. 100 foot tall wall around New Asgard if not that fishnet thing we saw in Dark World. Everyone mandatory military training. Not to mention the sheer amount of calories required to make him anything near Volstagg the Voluminous. How many calories does actual lighting coursing through one's body burn? Cap used Mjolnir. He did not have lightning run through his body, lighting up his eyes like Thor. Mjolnir was, as Odin pointed out, meant to help Thor control his natural lightning power. Sweet, yes. Not Steve. Threw himself on that grenade. Went deep behind enemy lines to save Bucky (Come on. The other guys were bonus. He went to save his friend). Went down with that plane. SERIOUS death wish.
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Post by James on Jul 21, 2019 23:19:09 GMT
Well your opinion is valid. It wasn’t the most creative way to handle Thor’s coping. But here’s the thing. He has been on Earth long 8 to understand the way humans deal with things. After all, he’s been drinking beer since Ragnarok. I find it believable. No. Far more likely he would turn into a dictator over his people to make sure no more died. Curfew. 100 foot tall wall around New Asgard if not that fishnet thing we saw in Dark World. Everyone mandatory military training. Not to mention the sheer amount of calories required to make him anything near Volstagg the Voluminous. How many calories does actual lighting coursing through one's body burn? Cap used Mjolnir. He did not have lightning run through his body, lighting up his eyes like Thor. Mjolnir was, as Odin pointed out, meant to help Thor control his natural lightning power. Sweet, yes. Not Steve. Threw himself on that grenade. Went deep behind enemy lines to save Bucky (Come on. The other guys were bonus. He went to save his friend). Went down with that plane. SERIOUS death wish. Okay, maybe since Thor’s (and other Asguardians’) bodily functions operate differently than humans, that wouldn’t make much sense for him to be easily overweight. |
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Post by merh on Jul 21, 2019 23:20:26 GMT
Do they forget how hard Steve Rogers tried to sacrifice himself to save others. So, sorry, no. As much as he wants to have a happily ever after with Peggy, he can't. He can't live with the idea of people crushed by the bully because he had to get the girl. That actually fits with the selfish character that Steve Rogers has always been. Rogers has never cared about saving others or protecting others. The whole reason he joined the army was because he saw that the other enlistees were getting attention from the girls and he wanted some attention from the girls too. That's why when he found out he had been asleep for 70 years, he didn't even bother to ask "Did we win the war?" or "Who won the war?" He was only concerned about not getting a chance to bang Peggy Carter. You are SERIOUSLY obsessed & DEEPLY deluded. He wakes up thinking he's captured by Hydra (not wrong, really), but the obviously fake scenario turns into a vaguely familiar NYC, confusing him. Have you never woken from a hard sleep disoriented. And as he is orienting, some guy tells him it has been 70 yrs. 70 fricken years. The thing that was foremost in his mind, what he likely dreamed about at least some of the time in those 70 yrs, was he had a date. Think about it. He is IN THE MIDDLE of a battle. Thinks he is dying to save everyone. No idea what dreams were coursing through his head. Dates with Peggy? Failing to save Bucky? Fighting Red Skull? And then BOOM. WAKE UP STEVE! His mind is likely very confused, then "you've been asleep for 70 yrs." Its like Carrie Fisher said about reacting to Alderaan being blown up. Your family. Your home. She actually said in an interview I read "Your record collection". [/quote] Then in Civil War, Rogers has a chance to do the right thing and bring in a double-murderer and send a message to the people "Even though I have all these super-powers, I still believe in democracy and the justice system so I'm bringing in my best friend to face a jury of the people and let the people decide his guilt or innocence."
Instead, Cap aids and abets a double-murderer to escape from the law and basically sends the message to everyone "I don't believe in democracy or your justice system. I have super-powers so I don't have to abide by your justice system and I alone shall be judge and jury and I alone shall decide guilt or innocence. Moreover, I don't give a shit that the cops are going to have to spend valuable manpower and resources to chase after Bucky and me (thereby taking manpower and resources away from chasing after other criminals) and endanger the lives of many innocent civilians by chasing us through a crowded public street because I don't give a shit about whether innocent civilians get injured or killed."[/quote] No matter how often anyone corrects you, you never comprehend. BUCKY KILLED DOZENS OF PEOPLE UNDER MIND CONTROL. Double murder? No. Hydra used him as their trained murder zombie. Did you not notice in First Avenger Bucky was the team sharpshooter? The sniper.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jul 21, 2019 23:26:19 GMT
No matter how often anyone corrects you, you never comprehend. BUCKY KILLED DOZENS OF PEOPLE UNDER MIND CONTROL. And no matter how often it's explained to you, you never comprehend. Bucky can argue his "brainwashing" defense in front of a jury. But STEVE ROGERS ISN'T ALLOWED TO APPOINT HIMSELF THE SOLE JUDGE AND JURY. ONLY TYRANTS DO THAT.
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Post by twothousandonemark on Jul 21, 2019 23:37:55 GMT
70-30 depressed-bored. He realizes there's not a ton more of heroic endeavours to be had in the universe, & drinking beer & gaming with friends (& now boarding with the Guardians) he's not entirely broken, he's just spent.
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Post by merh on Jul 21, 2019 23:57:36 GMT
No. Far more likely he would turn into a dictator over his people to make sure no more died. Curfew. 100 foot tall wall around New Asgard if not that fishnet thing we saw in Dark World. Everyone mandatory military training. Not to mention the sheer amount of calories required to make him anything near Volstagg the Voluminous. How many calories does actual lighting coursing through one's body burn? Cap used Mjolnir. He did not have lightning run through his body, lighting up his eyes like Thor. Mjolnir was, as Odin pointed out, meant to help Thor control his natural lightning power. Sweet, yes. Not Steve. Threw himself on that grenade. Went deep behind enemy lines to save Bucky (Come on. The other guys were bonus. He went to save his friend). Went down with that plane. SERIOUS death wish. Okay, maybe since Thor’s (and other Asguardians’) bodily functions operate differently than humans, that wouldn’t make much sense for him to be easily overweight. MARVEL.COM Their own damned website. You see, I remember a comment about Avengers mansion that Stark had to reinforce the floors Thor & Hulk regularly used because of their increased weight.
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Post by merh on Jul 22, 2019 0:00:24 GMT
No matter how often anyone corrects you, you never comprehend. BUCKY KILLED DOZENS OF PEOPLE UNDER MIND CONTROL. And no matter how often it's explained to you, you never comprehend. Bucky can argue his "brainwashing" defense in front of a jury. But STEVE ROGERS ISN'T ALLOWED TO APPOINT HIMSELF THE SOLE JUDGE AND JURY. ONLY TYRANTS DO THAT. Jury of one's peers. Not too easy to find. Basically, the Avengers. Unless you can find a bunch of WWII soldiers.
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Post by James on Jul 22, 2019 0:00:49 GMT
Okay, maybe since Thor’s (and other Asguardians’) bodily functions operate differently than humans, that wouldn’t make much sense for him to be easily overweight. MARVEL.COM Their own damned website. You see, I remember a comment about Avengers mansion that Stark had to reinforce the floors Thor & Hulk regularly used because of their increased weight. Oh, I see what you mean now. |
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Post by damngumby on Jul 22, 2019 0:20:13 GMT
No matter how often anyone corrects you, you never comprehend. BUCKY KILLED DOZENS OF PEOPLE UNDER MIND CONTROL. And no matter how often it's explained to you, you never comprehend. Bucky can argue his "brainwashing" defense in front of a jury. But STEVE ROGERS ISN'T ALLOWED TO APPOINT HIMSELF THE SOLE JUDGE AND JURY. ONLY TYRANTS DO THAT. That's because you're dead wrong. Superheroes, by their nature, transcend conventional law enforcement. They are the ultimate vigilantes. No one controls Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Captain America, Ironman ... etc. They follow their own code of justice. When it is good, they are heroes, when it turns bad, they become villains. No one wants a superhero who is just the muscle of the state. A brainless automaton who only does what he is instructed to do, bound by bureaucrats and lawyers. ... except, of course, you. Most people like superheroes because they possess the autonomy and the ability to take matters into their own hands and do what they think is right. Something we all wish we could do. You must like them because of the colorful costumes and action figures. ... because you've completely missed the point of what a superhero is.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jul 22, 2019 0:44:38 GMT
And no matter how often it's explained to you, you never comprehend. Bucky can argue his "brainwashing" defense in front of a jury. But STEVE ROGERS ISN'T ALLOWED TO APPOINT HIMSELF THE SOLE JUDGE AND JURY. ONLY TYRANTS DO THAT.That's because you're dead wrong. Superheroes, by their nature, transcend conventional law enforcement. They are the ultimate vigilantes. No one controls Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Captain America, Ironman ... etc. They follow their own code of justice. When it is good, they are heroes, when it turns bad, they become villains. Wrong again. The Justice League don't have their own justice system. None of them appoint themselves judge and jury like the Avengers do. Superman is the most powerful person on the planet and could rule the planet of he wanted to. But he doesn't. He's willing to surrender himself to the custody of the US military even though they didn't have the power to force him to. He's willing to appear before a Congressional committee when summoned even though Congress didn't have the power to force him to. Because Superman respects the authority of the people and is willing to answer to the people. Unlike the Avengers, who believe that they don't have to answer to the people because they're more powerful than the people. The Avengers' system of justice is that Might Makes Right. Whoever is the mightiest is right. No one wants a superhero who is just the muscle of the state. A brainless automaton who only does what he is instructed to do, bound by bureaucrats and lawyers. ... except, of course, you. No one wants a superhero who believes that they can be a tyrant and rule over the people and refuse to be held accountable for their actions. … except, of course, some MCU fans like you. you've completely missed the point of what a superhero is. It's MCU fans like you who've completely missed the point of what a superhero is. A superhero is not someone who takes absolute power over the people just because they're the more powerful than the people. Because there's no difference between a dictator and someone who takes absolute power over the people just because they're more powerful than the people (like Steve Rogers).
A superhero is someone who's willing to use their superpowers not for their own selfish agenda (like the Avengers often do) but for the greater good AND who is still willing ultimately to recognize that their superpowers do not give them any more privileges than the rest of the people and their superpowers do not give them free reign to do whatever they want without answering to the people or being held accountable to the people.
There's a reason that the Founding Fathers didn't give POTUS absolute power without any checks and balances. Because giving 1 person absolute powers is usually the 1st step towards tyranny. The Founding Fathers put checks and balances in the Constitution to ensure that POTUS doesn't have absolute power and is still held accountable to the people.
Steve Rogers doesn't believe in those checks and balances on absolute power because Steve Rogers believes that Might Makes Right. Steve Rogers believes that having superpowers puts him above the people and gives him free range to whatever he wants without having to answer to the people or be held accountable to the people.
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