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Post by Lord Death Man on Jul 26, 2019 16:19:25 GMT
Thor letting himself go eschews the classic archetype of the ultra-fit superhero. That's unacceptable to most fans. I see Thor's failure to defeat Thanos as similar to him becoming unworthy in the comics. He usually acts out of character in those instances questioning his identity and motivations. Endgame takes a known tendency of the character and pushes it to a comedic extreme. While I don't agree with how Marvel executed the choice, it is in line with known depictions of the character. I think the problem here is not that he became fat, it's that he became dumb and useless on top of being fat. I've had some friends who suffered depression, they don't suddenly lose 100 IQ points just because they're depressed. While we can definitely expect a personality change in Thor if he had let himself go like that, the personality change shown in Endgame is too extreme so much that he was pretty much a completely different character already. All good points... The dim-witted aspects of the character played to the slap-stick feel Marvel was going for. In the comics, when Thor became unworthy, he spent a large portion of his time in a drunken stupor, and he was unable to defend himself in battles that he would usually easily win. That could be interpreted as a loss of IQ points. He was also frequently confused and could not discern friend from foe. Again, I'm not singing from the rooftops in regards to Thor's treatment in Endgame, but it does have roots in the source material. I think the creative team was drawing from (and reinterpreting) those traits. Bro Thor redeems himself on the battlefield in the last act of the film by showing that he is still one of Asgard's strongest and skilled fighters.
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Post by Skaathar on Jul 26, 2019 16:23:26 GMT
Bro Thor redeems himself on the battlefield in the last act of the film by showing that he is still one of Asgard's strongest and skilled fighters. I disagree with this last part. He beat up a few random fodder (whom even regular humans like Okoye were beating up) but didn't really have any decent fighting feats outside of that. He got his ass completely stomped by Thanos when Wanda and Carol almost defeated Thanos.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jul 26, 2019 16:30:23 GMT
Bro Thor redeems himself on the battlefield in the last act of the film by showing that he is still one of Asgard's strongest and skilled fighters. I disagree with this last part. He beat up a few random fodder (whom even regular humans like Okoye were beating up) but didn't really have any decent fighting feats outside of that. He got his ass completely stomped by Thanos when Wanda and Carol almost defeated Thanos. Fair enough, I know you're a fight choreography enthusiast but, I'm not speaking specifically on a blow for blow basis or based on styles employed. The fact that Thor, in his current state, went up against Thanos and wasn't killed instantly tells me that he is formidable even when he is not up to full speed.
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Post by Skaathar on Jul 26, 2019 18:09:40 GMT
I disagree with this last part. He beat up a few random fodder (whom even regular humans like Okoye were beating up) but didn't really have any decent fighting feats outside of that. He got his ass completely stomped by Thanos when Wanda and Carol almost defeated Thanos. Fair enough, I know you're a fight choreography enthusiast but, I'm not speaking specifically on a blow for blow basis or based on styles employed. The fact that Thor, in his current state, went up against Thanos and wasn't killed instantly tells me that he is formidable even when he is not up to full speed. It's not exactly a blow by blow thing but more of a "Thor fought way way below his capacity" thing. For example, even if he was fat and out of shape, he should have still be able to use his lightning. Yet he never used it against Thanos at all, despite that being the smartest tactic. He used it once to power Ironman's blasts but that was it. And even if he'd been playing computer games only for 5 straight years, his muscle memory from 1500 years of fighting should have still granted him better reflexes and instincts than what we saw. I understand that they wanted to show an out of shape Thor, but what they showed us instead was somebody who was not even Thor anymore. I'm not saying that he should have been able to defeat Thanos, just saying he should have performed way better despite being out of shape. Something better than simply 'not dying'. It's not like Thanos is completely invinsible after all. Wanda, Cap , IM, Strange and CM all gave him a good fight one on one. But not Thor? My main gripe with Endgame (well, one of them anyway) was that it seemed this movie specifically went out of its way to bring down Thor and Hulk.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jul 26, 2019 18:42:48 GMT
Fair enough, I know you're a fight choreography enthusiast but, I'm not speaking specifically on a blow for blow basis or based on styles employed. The fact that Thor, in his current state, went up against Thanos and wasn't killed instantly tells me that he is formidable even when he is not up to full speed. It's not exactly a blow by blow thing but more of a "Thor fought way way below his capacity" thing. For example, even if he was fat and out of shape, he should have still be able to use his lightning. Yet he never used it against Thanos at all, despite that being the smartest tactic. He used it once to power Ironman's blasts but that was it. And even if he'd been playing computer games only for 5 straight years, his muscle memory from 1500 years of fighting should have still granted him better reflexes and instincts than what we saw. I understand that they wanted to show an out of shape Thor, but what they showed us instead was somebody who was not even Thor anymore. I'm not saying that he should have been able to defeat Thanos, just saying he should have performed way better despite being out of shape. Something better than simply 'not dying'. It's not like Thanos is completely invinsible after all. Wanda, Cap , IM, Strange and CM all gave him a good fight one on one. But not Thor? My main gripe with Endgame (well, one of them anyway) was that it seemed this movie specifically went out of its way to bring down Thor and Hulk. But, doesn't being out of shape literally mean you can't reach peak performance? I understand what you're saying about his poor tactical choices but, I think you also need to consider that he was fighting a time-displaced version of Thanos who was at peak performance. Surviving the fight alone was a feat in my book as well as his display of courage and the will to face an opponent you previously lost to badly.
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Post by Skaathar on Jul 26, 2019 18:56:57 GMT
It's not exactly a blow by blow thing but more of a "Thor fought way way below his capacity" thing. For example, even if he was fat and out of shape, he should have still be able to use his lightning. Yet he never used it against Thanos at all, despite that being the smartest tactic. He used it once to power Ironman's blasts but that was it. And even if he'd been playing computer games only for 5 straight years, his muscle memory from 1500 years of fighting should have still granted him better reflexes and instincts than what we saw. I understand that they wanted to show an out of shape Thor, but what they showed us instead was somebody who was not even Thor anymore. I'm not saying that he should have been able to defeat Thanos, just saying he should have performed way better despite being out of shape. Something better than simply 'not dying'. It's not like Thanos is completely invinsible after all. Wanda, Cap , IM, Strange and CM all gave him a good fight one on one. But not Thor? My main gripe with Endgame (well, one of them anyway) was that it seemed this movie specifically went out of its way to bring down Thor and Hulk. But, doesn't being out of shape literally mean you can't reach peak performance? I understand what you're saying about his poor tactical choices but, I think you also need to consider that he was fighting a time-displaced version of Thanos who was at peak performance. Surviving the fight alone was a feat in my book as well as his display of courage and the will to face an opponent you previously lost to badly. Before I go further, I'd first want to say that despite me disagreeing with you, it doesn't mean I don't respect your opinion. It's possibly also my martial arts background that is making me this critical about it. So with that said, I do understand that Thor would not have been operating at peak performance. I don't expect him to. But even someone who is out of shape and not at their peak still should retain some semblance of their fighting skill and instincts. Like, a boxer out of his prime will be nowhere near as fast or powerful as he once was but that doesn't mean he suddenly forgets how to throw a punch. The way they portrayed Thor here, it's like he completely forgot how to properly fight. He basically became a punching bag for Thanos in their fight. He didn't use his lightning, didn't fly, and didn't attempt any attacks any more complex than wildly swinging his axe. It was such a far cry from the skill we've seen Thor use in his other movies that it was very jarring. Being fat and out of shape should not make you drop in skill like that. The only explanation I could come up with is that maybe he was still drunk in that final fight.
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Post by dazz on Jul 26, 2019 19:01:49 GMT
It's not exactly a blow by blow thing but more of a "Thor fought way way below his capacity" thing. For example, even if he was fat and out of shape, he should have still be able to use his lightning. Yet he never used it against Thanos at all, despite that being the smartest tactic. He used it once to power Ironman's blasts but that was it. And even if he'd been playing computer games only for 5 straight years, his muscle memory from 1500 years of fighting should have still granted him better reflexes and instincts than what we saw. I understand that they wanted to show an out of shape Thor, but what they showed us instead was somebody who was not even Thor anymore. I'm not saying that he should have been able to defeat Thanos, just saying he should have performed way better despite being out of shape. Something better than simply 'not dying'. It's not like Thanos is completely invinsible after all. Wanda, Cap , IM, Strange and CM all gave him a good fight one on one. But not Thor? My main gripe with Endgame (well, one of them anyway) was that it seemed this movie specifically went out of its way to bring down Thor and Hulk. But, doesn't being out of shape literally mean you can't reach peak performance? I understand what you're saying about his poor tactical choices but, I think you also need to consider that he was fighting a time-displaced version of Thanos who was at peak performance. Surviving the fight alone was a feat in my book as well as his display of courage and the will to face an opponent you previously lost to badly. They probably could have done with a few big moments in battle for Thor, like his sheer power was enough to match Thanos but Thor being out of shape meant he couldn't keep it going too long, compared to Thanos who was able to go all out for longer, like instead of Thanos overpowering Thor you have Thor lose steam in the fight being unable to finish off Thanos, and ultimately getting drained so he's running on fumes.
That way Thor surviving Thanos's hoard is also more impressive as it's essential a Thor with little gas left in the tank and yet he's still one of the big guns for the Avengers, maybe giving Thor 2 big lightning moments, like he uses a massive strike to severely hurt Thanos but that's what drains him as his body isn't used to the strain of the lightning as he once was, then Thor's last great act is a huge perimeter lightning strike where he roasts like 10% of Thanos's army including several leviathans, but whilst that was a huge blow it was still just 10% of the enemies forces and now the 90% remaining know oh shit that fucker can take us out with ease if he gets a 2nd wind lets kill him.
Similar for Hulk they should have had atleast one scene of him going at it with the big dude from Thanos's elite, at first he's handicapped due to his arm but then we see Hulk getting pissed and then he KO's the big guy with a single punch only to be swarmed again by the alien dog thingys.
I get nerfing them as otherwise the Avengers are too powerful a team to fight a non-Infinity Stone powered Thanos, but they could have done so better to atleast show just how powerful these characters are, but they just simply aren't at their peaks hence they get beat.
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Post by Skaathar on Jul 26, 2019 19:13:32 GMT
But, doesn't being out of shape literally mean you can't reach peak performance? I understand what you're saying about his poor tactical choices but, I think you also need to consider that he was fighting a time-displaced version of Thanos who was at peak performance. Surviving the fight alone was a feat in my book as well as his display of courage and the will to face an opponent you previously lost to badly. They probably could have done with a few big moments in battle for Thor, like his sheer power was enough to match Thanos but Thor being out of shape meant he couldn't keep it going too long, compared to Thanos who was able to go all out for longer, like instead of Thanos overpowering Thor you have Thor lose steam in the fight being unable to finish off Thanos, and ultimately getting drained so he's running on fumes.
That way Thor surviving Thanos's hoard is also more impressive as it's essential a Thor with little gas left in the tank and yet he's still one of the big guns for the Avengers, maybe giving Thor 2 big lightning moments, like he uses a massive strike to severely hurt Thanos but that's what drains him as his body isn't used to the strain of the lightning as he once was, then Thor's last great act is a huge perimeter lightning strike where he roasts like 10% of Thanos's army including several leviathans, but whilst that was a huge blow it was still just 10% of the enemies forces and now the 90% remaining know oh shit that fucker can take us out with ease if he gets a 2nd wind lets kill him.
Similar for Hulk they should have had atleast one scene of him going at it with the big dude from Thanos's elite, at first he's handicapped due to his arm but then we see Hulk getting pissed and then he KO's the big guy with a single punch only to be swarmed again by the alien dog thingys.
I get nerfing them as otherwise the Avengers are too powerful a team to fight a non-Infinity Stone powered Thanos, but they could have done so better to atleast show just how powerful these characters are, but they just simply aren't at their peaks hence they get beat.
Yeah, that's what I was saying. Thor and Hulk don't need to steal the show. They don't need to defeat Thanos or anything. Just give them a few moments to shine so they don't look completed useless. I get it if they wanted to tone down the more powerful heroes, but then again they didn't seem to mind showcasing just how powerful Wanda, Dr. Strange, Captain Marvel and Captain America were. Even side characters like Valkyrie got their chance to shine. It seemed only Hulk and Thor were targeted for nerfing. They did the same thing to Vision in IW.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jul 26, 2019 20:40:08 GMT
But, doesn't being out of shape literally mean you can't reach peak performance? I understand what you're saying about his poor tactical choices but, I think you also need to consider that he was fighting a time-displaced version of Thanos who was at peak performance. Surviving the fight alone was a feat in my book as well as his display of courage and the will to face an opponent you previously lost to badly. Before I go further, I'd first want to say that despite me disagreeing with you, it doesn't mean I don't respect your opinion. It's possibly also my martial arts background that is making me this critical about it. So with that said, I do understand that Thor would not have been operating at peak performance. I don't expect him to. But even someone who is out of shape and not at their peak still should retain some semblance of their fighting skill and instincts. Like, a boxer out of his prime will be nowhere near as fast or powerful as he once was but that doesn't mean he suddenly forgets how to throw a punch. The way they portrayed Thor here, it's like he completely forgot how to properly fight. He basically became a punching bag for Thanos in their fight. He didn't use his lightning, didn't fly, and didn't attempt any attacks any more complex than wildly swinging his axe. It was such a far cry from the skill we've seen Thor use in his other movies that it was very jarring. Being fat and out of shape should not make you drop in skill like that. The only explanation I could come up with is that maybe he was still drunk in that final fight. I think I see where you're coming from... Thor should have still had the muscle memory of a skilled fighter rather than being as disorganized as he was in that fight. Honestly, I have to go back and look at it again but, I don't recall Thor being completely bulldozed by Thanos. I do distinctly remember the ax to the chest being mildly disturbing. It seemed wrong that Thor nearly died at the hands of his own weapon. Hemsworth's acting did a lot for me in regards to making up for Thor's perceived incompetence. In the fight, he seems determined and ready even if his body couldn't cash the checks his head was writing. In my early career in the military, I had a baseline fitness requirement I had to make in order to serve in my unit. I use to pride myself on consistently operating above that requirement. The last seven years or so of civilian life have taken their toll. I still maintain a minimal fitness regiment, but there is absolutely no way I could operate on the same level of even five years ago.
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Post by Skaathar on Jul 26, 2019 21:51:32 GMT
Before I go further, I'd first want to say that despite me disagreeing with you, it doesn't mean I don't respect your opinion. It's possibly also my martial arts background that is making me this critical about it. So with that said, I do understand that Thor would not have been operating at peak performance. I don't expect him to. But even someone who is out of shape and not at their peak still should retain some semblance of their fighting skill and instincts. Like, a boxer out of his prime will be nowhere near as fast or powerful as he once was but that doesn't mean he suddenly forgets how to throw a punch. The way they portrayed Thor here, it's like he completely forgot how to properly fight. He basically became a punching bag for Thanos in their fight. He didn't use his lightning, didn't fly, and didn't attempt any attacks any more complex than wildly swinging his axe. It was such a far cry from the skill we've seen Thor use in his other movies that it was very jarring. Being fat and out of shape should not make you drop in skill like that. The only explanation I could come up with is that maybe he was still drunk in that final fight. I think I see where you're coming from... Thor should have still had the muscle memory of a skilled fighter rather than being as disorganized as he was in that fight. Honestly, I have to go back and look at it again but, I don't recall Thor being completely bulldozed by Thanos. I do distinctly remember the ax to the chest being mildly disturbing. It seemed wrong that Thor nearly died at the hands of his own weapon. Hemsworth's acting did a lot for me in regards to making up for Thor's perceived incompetence. In the fight, he seems determined and ready even if his body couldn't cash the checks his head was writing. In my early career in the military, I had a baseline fitness requirement I had to make in order to serve in my unit. I use to pride myself on consistently operating above that requirement. The last seven years or so of civilian life have taken their toll. I still maintain a minimal fitness regiment, but there is absolutely no way I could operate on the same level of even five years ago. Here you go: He had a decent baseball slide but that's about it.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jul 26, 2019 22:04:02 GMT
I think I see where you're coming from... Thor should have still had the muscle memory of a skilled fighter rather than being as disorganized as he was in that fight. Honestly, I have to go back and look at it again but, I don't recall Thor being completely bulldozed by Thanos. I do distinctly remember the ax to the chest being mildly disturbing. It seemed wrong that Thor nearly died at the hands of his own weapon. Hemsworth's acting did a lot for me in regards to making up for Thor's perceived incompetence. In the fight, he seems determined and ready even if his body couldn't cash the checks his head was writing. In my early career in the military, I had a baseline fitness requirement I had to make in order to serve in my unit. I use to pride myself on consistently operating above that requirement. The last seven years or so of civilian life have taken their toll. I still maintain a minimal fitness regiment, but there is absolutely no way I could operate on the same level of even five years ago. Here you go: He had a decent baseball slide but that's about it. Hmmm... He also disarmed Thanos fairly quickly after the baseball slide. And am I correct in that Thor was holding Thanos' two-handed press with the ax at bay with only one hand (until he slowly began to lose ground)? Not too bad for an out-of-shape thunder god.
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Post by Skaathar on Jul 26, 2019 23:36:31 GMT
Here you go: He had a decent baseball slide but that's about it. Hmmm... He also disarmed Thanos fairly quickly after the baseball slide. And am I correct in that Thor was holding Thanos' two-handed press with the ax at bay with only one hand (until he slowly began to lose ground)? Not too bad for an out-of-shape thunder god. Nah, he was using 2 hands immediately whereas Thanos only was using 1 hand initially. As for disarming Thanos, sure that wasn't such a bad move, but when you consider that Stormbreaker was powerful enough to overcome a blast from the complete IG, you'd kinda expect something a bit more impressive. Like maybe outright breaking Thanos' sword or something.
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Post by ThatGuy on Jul 27, 2019 1:32:57 GMT
The curse on Mjolnir said that whoever is worthy gets the power of Thor. It didn't say can only use the hammer. Did Steve's eyes light up? Did lightning ripple off his skin? Arc between fingertips? Mjolnir conducts energy. Whoever is worthy can use the hammer. It's not like they gain the mutant power over weather like Storm. Ragnarok showed Thor the power wasnt from Mjolnor, but from himself. Hela destroyed Mjolnir. The hammer Steve used was returned to the past so it could be used as it had in the interim time. Odin is dead. He had no part in Stormbreaker. There is no enchantment on that weapon. Um... Steve used Mjolnir... And Steve did use lightning. The curse on the hammer is for when the person is wielding the hammer. And that's what Thor thought the entire time. That the hammer is what gave him his power. But what Odin did was put an enchantment on Mjolnir that put a copy of Thor's powers into the hammer. "Whosoever holds this hammer, if he be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor." is the enchantment. "Possess the power of Thor." It doesn't end with "shall use the hammer." And Steve had the power on him to call Stormbreaker and Mjolnir. Since he can retrieve Mjolnir.
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Post by ThatGuy on Jul 27, 2019 1:49:45 GMT
Hmmm... He also disarmed Thanos fairly quickly after the baseball slide. And am I correct in that Thor was holding Thanos' two-handed press with the ax at bay with only one hand (until he slowly began to lose ground)? Not too bad for an out-of-shape thunder god. Nah, he was using 2 hands immediately whereas Thanos only was using 1 hand initially. As for disarming Thanos, sure that wasn't such a bad move, but when you consider that Stormbreaker was powerful enough to overcome a blast from the complete IG, you'd kinda expect something a bit more impressive. Like maybe outright breaking Thanos' sword or something. Thor beating Thanos in a fight would have been inconsistent. Even with Stormbreaker. Thanos didn't even use the Power stone on Hulk. Thor is a brute fighter that goes for the power swing. Thanos is a tactical fighter.
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Post by Skaathar on Jul 27, 2019 2:11:34 GMT
Nah, he was using 2 hands immediately whereas Thanos only was using 1 hand initially. As for disarming Thanos, sure that wasn't such a bad move, but when you consider that Stormbreaker was powerful enough to overcome a blast from the complete IG, you'd kinda expect something a bit more impressive. Like maybe outright breaking Thanos' sword or something. Thor beating Thanos in a fight would have been inconsistent. Even with Stormbreaker. Thanos didn't even use the Power stone on Hulk. Thor is a brute fighter that goes for the power swing. Thanos is a tactical fighter. If you've watched the rest of the MCU movies, you'd know that Thor is not just a brute fighter. Sure he doesn't do fancy flying kicks, but he's got the best bob and weave out of any of them and is quite skilled and agile as well. Just watch his fight scenes in Ragnarok. Besides, I wasn't saying he should beat Thanos, just put up a bit of a fight similar to how Wanda, IM, Captain America, Dr. Strange and Captain Marvel were able to put up a fight when they went up against Thanos one on one.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jul 27, 2019 2:39:26 GMT
Hmmm... He also disarmed Thanos fairly quickly after the baseball slide. And am I correct in that Thor was holding Thanos' two-handed press with the ax at bay with only one hand (until he slowly began to lose ground)? Not too bad for an out-of-shape thunder god. Nah, he was using 2 hands immediately whereas Thanos only was using 1 hand initially. As for disarming Thanos, sure that wasn't such a bad move, but when you consider that Stormbreaker was powerful enough to overcome a blast from the complete IG, you'd kinda expect something a bit more impressive. Like maybe outright breaking Thanos' sword or something. Okay, got home and looking at this on a bigger screen. Bro Thor is just no match for peak Thanos. He's just too fast, accurate, and aggressive. I don't think the lightning would have made any difference as Iron Man's attack powered by Thor's lightning barely made a dent. Thanos dealt six crushing blows to Thor in the form of stomps, punches, and throws. Cap got taken out for the duration of the Thor fight with a single blow. That makes sense as he is just a human being operating at peak strength and efficiency. There is a least a sense of proportion in the early stages of the fight. Iron Man is taken out by a direct blow from Mjolnir. So Thor has virtually lost all of his battle prowess in the intervening years since his last fight with Thanos, but he remains as durable as any Asgardian. I guess Thor's tactics could have been better but, I don't think it's completely unreasonable that he performed as poorly as he did.
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Post by Skaathar on Jul 27, 2019 3:21:59 GMT
Nah, he was using 2 hands immediately whereas Thanos only was using 1 hand initially. As for disarming Thanos, sure that wasn't such a bad move, but when you consider that Stormbreaker was powerful enough to overcome a blast from the complete IG, you'd kinda expect something a bit more impressive. Like maybe outright breaking Thanos' sword or something. Okay, got home and looking at this on a bigger screen. Bro Thor is just no match for peak Thanos. He's just too fast, accurate, and aggressive. I don't think the lightning would have made any difference as Iron Man's attack powered by Thor's lightning barely made a dent. Thanos dealt six crushing blows to Thor in the form of stomps, punches, and throws. Cap got taken out for the duration of the Thor fight with a single blow. That makes sense as he is just a human being operating at peak strength and efficiency. There is a least a sense of proportion in the early stages of the fight. Iron Man is taken out by a direct blow from Mjolnir. So Thor has virtually lost all of his battle prowess in the intervening years since his last fight with Thanos, but he remains as durable as any Asgardian. I guess Thor's tactics could have been better but, I don't think it's completely unreasonable that he performed as poorly as he did. Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this. Yes, Thor still has his Asgardian durability which is why he didn't get squashed to a pulp, but his fighting instincts shouldn't have completely disappeared like that. At the very least he should have tried to put up his hands to cover himself (which is something even an untrained person will instinctively do) or attempted to dodge a blow or two. Heck, maybe even shot off a lightning blast or two when he got cornered since he doesn't need Stormbreaker to access his lightning.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jul 27, 2019 3:29:17 GMT
Okay, got home and looking at this on a bigger screen. Bro Thor is just no match for peak Thanos. He's just too fast, accurate, and aggressive. I don't think the lightning would have made any difference as Iron Man's attack powered by Thor's lightning barely made a dent. Thanos dealt six crushing blows to Thor in the form of stomps, punches, and throws. Cap got taken out for the duration of the Thor fight with a single blow. That makes sense as he is just a human being operating at peak strength and efficiency. There is a least a sense of proportion in the early stages of the fight. Iron Man is taken out by a direct blow from Mjolnir. So Thor has virtually lost all of his battle prowess in the intervening years since his last fight with Thanos, but he remains as durable as any Asgardian. I guess Thor's tactics could have been better but, I don't think it's completely unreasonable that he performed as poorly as he did. Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this. Yes, Thor still has his Asgardian durability which is why he didn't get squashed to a pulp, but his fighting instincts shouldn't have completely disappeared like that. At the very least he should have tried to put up his hands to cover himself (which is something even an untrained person will instinctively do) or attempted to dodge a blow or two. Heck, maybe even shot off a lightning blast or two when he got cornered since he doesn't need Stormbreaker to access his lightning. I don't see Thor covering much as powerful as he is. Doesn't feel like it would be a natural fit for his fighting style. There's very little that he'd have to worry about in most typical battles.
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Post by Skaathar on Jul 27, 2019 4:26:22 GMT
Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this. Yes, Thor still has his Asgardian durability which is why he didn't get squashed to a pulp, but his fighting instincts shouldn't have completely disappeared like that. At the very least he should have tried to put up his hands to cover himself (which is something even an untrained person will instinctively do) or attempted to dodge a blow or two. Heck, maybe even shot off a lightning blast or two when he got cornered since he doesn't need Stormbreaker to access his lightning. I don't see Thor covering much as powerful as he is. Doesn't feel like it would be a natural fit for his fighting style. There's very little that he'd have to worry about in most typical battles. In the first Avengers movie: 1. He ducked, blocked and even caught IM's punches instead of simply tanking them. 2. He ducked, dodged and blocked Hulk's hits instead of simply tanking them. 3. He blocked Chitauri laser blasts with Mjolnir instead of simply tanking them. 4. He blocked and dodged Loki's hits instead of simply tanking them. In Thor TDW: 1. He covered himself up when Kurse threw a rock at him. In Age of Ultron: 1. He dodged an Ultronbot's laser blasts at point blank range instead of tanking them. In Thor Ragnarok: 1. He was ducking, dodging and even leaping over Hulk's hits instead of simply tanking them. 2. He was blocking, dodging and even preemptively blasting Hela's hits in the air instead of simply tanking them. I think you're seriously misjudging Thor's fighting skill. Blocking hits, dodging hits and covering up are definitely part of his style. Just because he's heavily muscled and don't do high kicks doesn't mean he's a simple dumb brawler (that's Hulk). If still in doubt, watch this:
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Post by dazz on Jul 27, 2019 4:28:50 GMT
Okay, got home and looking at this on a bigger screen. Bro Thor is just no match for peak Thanos. He's just too fast, accurate, and aggressive. I don't think the lightning would have made any difference as Iron Man's attack powered by Thor's lightning barely made a dent. Thanos dealt six crushing blows to Thor in the form of stomps, punches, and throws. Cap got taken out for the duration of the Thor fight with a single blow. That makes sense as he is just a human being operating at peak strength and efficiency. There is a least a sense of proportion in the early stages of the fight. Iron Man is taken out by a direct blow from Mjolnir. So Thor has virtually lost all of his battle prowess in the intervening years since his last fight with Thanos, but he remains as durable as any Asgardian. I guess Thor's tactics could have been better but, I don't think it's completely unreasonable that he performed as poorly as he did. Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this. Yes, Thor still has his Asgardian durability which is why he didn't get squashed to a pulp, but his fighting instincts shouldn't have completely disappeared like that. At the very least he should have tried to put up his hands to cover himself (which is something even an untrained person will instinctively do) or attempted to dodge a blow or two. Heck, maybe even shot off a lightning blast or two when he got cornered since he doesn't need Stormbreaker to access his lightning. One thing with Thor's instincts, not only are they dulled but they aren't right for his predicament, Thor has trained his whole life with Mjolnir, that is arguably just an extension of Thor, how he fights with that is very different to how he fights with Stormbreaker, so not is he rusty in general he's fighting with an unfamiliar weapon, Thor also wasn't trained to rely on the lightning as it was his own, he only learned of this at the end of Ragnarok, so he's literally fought one battle without using a weapon as a conduit for his lightning, and then he got a new weapon and he used that very much like a conduit also, so Thor's not experienced in using his lightning without a weapon.
These are minor things but imo they do make sense in explaining Thor's lack in battle skill against Thanos, just because he should technically be able to do stuff doesn't mean he's adapt at doing so at this point, but I would have liked for Thor to use his lightning still, like he used a blast bigger than what he threw at Hela in a moment of sheer "fuck you here take all I got bitch" fury at Thanos, but as I said doing so basically burns him out.
But keep this in mind Thanos and his crew wiped their arse with Thor on the ship to start with, Loki is on par with Asguardians physically and was able to hold his own though not best Thor in combat for a while when Thor is battle ready, and yet Loki still served Thanos and feared him, Ronan feared Thanos until he possessed an Infinity Stone and even without one was able to wipe the floor with Drax.
And if Thor is anything like Odin or Hela his power may have been partially tied to Asguard and could simply be his immense and above normal for even an Asgardian power has been weakened over the 5 years since it's destruction.
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