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Post by Skaathar on Jul 27, 2019 4:42:20 GMT
Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this. Yes, Thor still has his Asgardian durability which is why he didn't get squashed to a pulp, but his fighting instincts shouldn't have completely disappeared like that. At the very least he should have tried to put up his hands to cover himself (which is something even an untrained person will instinctively do) or attempted to dodge a blow or two. Heck, maybe even shot off a lightning blast or two when he got cornered since he doesn't need Stormbreaker to access his lightning. One thing with Thor's instincts, not only are they dulled but they aren't right for his predicament, Thor has trained his whole life with Mjolnir, that is arguably just an extension of Thor, how he fights with that is very different to how he fights with Stormbreaker, so not is he rusty in general he's fighting with an unfamiliar weapon, Thor also wasn't trained to rely on the lightning as it was his own, he only learned of this at the end of Ragnarok, so he's literally fought one battle without using a weapon as a conduit for his lightning, and then he got a new weapon and he used that very much like a conduit also, so Thor's not experienced in using his lightning without a weapon.
These are minor things but imo they do make sense in explaining Thor's lack in battle skill against Thanos, just because he should technically be able to do stuff doesn't mean he's adapt at doing so at this point, but I would have liked for Thor to use his lightning still, like he used a blast bigger than what he threw at Hela in a moment of sheer "fuck you here take all I got bitch" fury at Thanos, but as I said doing so basically burns him out.
But keep this in mind Thanos and his crew wiped their arse with Thor on the ship to start with, Loki is on par with Asguardians physically and was able to hold his own though not best Thor in combat for a while when Thor is battle ready, and yet Loki still served Thanos and feared him, Ronan feared Thanos until he possessed an Infinity Stone and even without one was able to wipe the floor with Drax.
And if Thor is anything like Odin or Hela his power may have been partially tied to Asguard and could simply be his immense and above normal for even an Asgardian power has been weakened over the 5 years since it's destruction.
Sorry Dazz, but that whole first paragraph is just completely wrong. Thor wiped the floor with highly trained SHIELD agents while unarmed. He fought Ironman primarily without Mjolnir. The two times he's fought Hulk he was fighting unarmed for at least half the fight. He fought Hela while armed with a spear. He cleared out the Bifrost of Asgardian zombies while armed with lightning and swords. He was blasting Hela's spears out of the air with his lightning. He turned his lightning into pseudo swords and killed zombie Asgardians with it. I just posted a vid above where he, unarmed, took out 4 armed Asgardian. So to imply that Thor is only trained/skilled with a warhammer is just plain incorrect. He might be more skilled with it, but he has more than enough screen feats to showcase his skill without it and with different weapons. Just because he got a battleaxe (which isn't too different from a warhammer mind you) doesn't mean that he suddenly forgot how to fight. Also, to imply that he isn't skilled with his lightning is to completely ignore the final battle in Ragnarok. He showed way more mastery of lightning in that bridge fight than he's ever done before even with Mjolnir. As for Thanos and his crew vs. Thor... not sure what this has got to do with this fight. Thor isn't fighting Thanos and his entire crew, I don't expect him to win against Thanos let alone Thanos plus the black order.
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Post by dazz on Jul 27, 2019 4:43:05 GMT
I don't see Thor covering much as powerful as he is. Doesn't feel like it would be a natural fit for his fighting style. There's very little that he'd have to worry about in most typical battles. In the first Avengers movie: 1. He ducked, blocked and even caught IM's punches instead of simply tanking them. 2. He ducked, dodged and blocked Hulk's hits instead of simply tanking them. 3. He blocked Chitauri laser blasts with Mjolnir instead of simply tanking them. 4. He blocked and dodged Loki's hits instead of simply tanking them. In Age of Ultron: 1. He dodged an Ultronbot's laser blasts at point blank range instead of tanking them. In Thor Ragnarok: 1. He was ducking, dodging and even leaping over Hulk's hits instead of simply tanking them. 2. He was blocking, dodging and even preemptively blasting Hela's hits in the air instead of simply tanking them. I think you're seriously misjudging Thor's fighting skill. Blocking hits, dodging hits and covering up are definitely part of his style. Just because he's heavily muscled and don't do high kicks doesn't mean he's a simple dumb brawler (that's Hulk). If still in doubt, watch this: Bu that's Thor in battle condition, knowing that it's safer to block and doge than risk being enough of a tank to eat the blows, he still has naturally bad instincts over some things, like falling for Loki's illusions diving in without thinking, Thor's battle instincts were honed over years, which he has essentially drunk into oblivion, not only is he not as fast, strong or focused as he was but it isn't 2nd nature for him at this point, but maybe a few moments of his old instinct coming back wouldn't have hurt tbh, like once the armies clash if they had Thor tanking blows because he can but then starts fighting back more like he used to having him be like I think I'm getting my grove back, than have him get a big show of moment showing him using his training more.
But I think also all this happens before everyone knows the plan worked, except Hawkeye & Scott I think, so Thor could still be kinda suicidal at that point, thinking they failed and being less concerned for himself and jus being like "ok fuck it big swings only, either he dies or I do".
Theres ways to improve the fight scene obviously but then it's like ok how much time do you want to put in just to give people a yay Thor moment, over these other moments, I would have preferred them giving one to Thor rather than Captain Marvel though, she blew up Thanos's ship like it was nothing and gave him a bitch please look when he headbutted her, give one of those to Thor atleast or something comparable.
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Post by Skaathar on Jul 27, 2019 4:52:17 GMT
In the first Avengers movie: 1. He ducked, blocked and even caught IM's punches instead of simply tanking them. 2. He ducked, dodged and blocked Hulk's hits instead of simply tanking them. 3. He blocked Chitauri laser blasts with Mjolnir instead of simply tanking them. 4. He blocked and dodged Loki's hits instead of simply tanking them. In Age of Ultron: 1. He dodged an Ultronbot's laser blasts at point blank range instead of tanking them. In Thor Ragnarok: 1. He was ducking, dodging and even leaping over Hulk's hits instead of simply tanking them. 2. He was blocking, dodging and even preemptively blasting Hela's hits in the air instead of simply tanking them. I think you're seriously misjudging Thor's fighting skill. Blocking hits, dodging hits and covering up are definitely part of his style. Just because he's heavily muscled and don't do high kicks doesn't mean he's a simple dumb brawler (that's Hulk). If still in doubt, watch this: Bu that's Thor in battle condition, knowing that it's safer to block and doge than risk being enough of a tank to eat the blows, he still has naturally bad instincts over some things, like falling for Loki's illusions diving in without thinking, Thor's battle instincts were honed over years, which he has essentially drunk into oblivion, not only is he not as fast, strong or focused as he was but it isn't 2nd nature for him at this point, but maybe a few moments of his old instinct coming back wouldn't have hurt tbh, like once the armies clash if they had Thor tanking blows because he can but then starts fighting back more like he used to having him be like I think I'm getting my grove back, than have him get a big show of moment showing him using his training more.
But I think also all this happens before everyone knows the plan worked, except Hawkeye & Scott I think, so Thor could still be kinda suicidal at that point, thinking they failed and being less concerned for himself and jus being like "ok fuck it big swings only, either he dies or I do".
Theres ways to improve the fight scene obviously but then it's like ok how much time do you want to put in just to give people a yay Thor moment, over these other moments, I would have preferred them giving one to Thor rather than Captain Marvel though, she blew up Thanos's ship like it was nothing and gave him a bitch please look when he headbutted her, give one of those to Thor atleast or something comparable.
Diving after Loki's illusions is not bad instincts on Thor's part, that's smart planning on Loki's part. There's nothing wrong about trying to attack your foe when they look helpless. May not have been smart of Thor to do knowing Loki, but that doesn't make his instincts bad. And you can't really drink your instincts into oblivion like that, not in just 5 years after you've been training and fighting for over millennia. That's like saying a professional UFC champion at his prime loses all his instincts just because he took a month vacation. You might slow down, weaken, and yes your instincts might dull a bit but they won't completely disappear. Not like that. Like I said, the only explanation I could come up with for Thor fighting like that would be if he was still drunk.
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Post by dazz on Jul 27, 2019 5:00:10 GMT
One thing with Thor's instincts, not only are they dulled but they aren't right for his predicament, Thor has trained his whole life with Mjolnir, that is arguably just an extension of Thor, how he fights with that is very different to how he fights with Stormbreaker, so not is he rusty in general he's fighting with an unfamiliar weapon, Thor also wasn't trained to rely on the lightning as it was his own, he only learned of this at the end of Ragnarok, so he's literally fought one battle without using a weapon as a conduit for his lightning, and then he got a new weapon and he used that very much like a conduit also, so Thor's not experienced in using his lightning without a weapon.
These are minor things but imo they do make sense in explaining Thor's lack in battle skill against Thanos, just because he should technically be able to do stuff doesn't mean he's adapt at doing so at this point, but I would have liked for Thor to use his lightning still, like he used a blast bigger than what he threw at Hela in a moment of sheer "fuck you here take all I got bitch" fury at Thanos, but as I said doing so basically burns him out.
But keep this in mind Thanos and his crew wiped their arse with Thor on the ship to start with, Loki is on par with Asguardians physically and was able to hold his own though not best Thor in combat for a while when Thor is battle ready, and yet Loki still served Thanos and feared him, Ronan feared Thanos until he possessed an Infinity Stone and even without one was able to wipe the floor with Drax.
And if Thor is anything like Odin or Hela his power may have been partially tied to Asguard and could simply be his immense and above normal for even an Asgardian power has been weakened over the 5 years since it's destruction.
Sorry Dazz, but that whole first paragraph is just completely wrong. Thor wiped the floor with highly trained SHIELD agents while unarmed. He fought Ironman primarily without Mjolnir. The two times he's fought Hulk he was fighting unarmed for at least half the fight. He fought Hela while armed with a spear. He cleared out the Bifrost of Asgardian zombies while armed with lightning and swords. He was blasting Hela's spears out of the air with his lightning. He turned his lightning into pseudo swords and killed zombie Asgardians with it. I just posted a vid above where he, unarmed, took out 4 armed Asgardian. So to imply that Thor is only trained/skilled with a warhammer is just plain incorrect. He might be more skilled with it, but he has more than enough screen feats to showcase his skill without it and with different weapons. Just because he got a battleaxe (which isn't too different from a warhammer mind you) doesn't mean that he suddenly forgot how to fight. Also, to imply that he isn't skilled with his lightning is to completely ignore the final battle in Ragnarok. He showed way more mastery of lightning in that bridge fight than he's ever done before even with Mjolnir. As for Thanos and his crew vs. Thor... not sure what this has got to do with this fight. Thor isn't fighting Thanos and his entire crew, I don't expect him to win against Thanos let alone Thanos plus the black order. No because I am not saying he is unskilled without Mjolnir I am saying fighting with Mjolnir is his instinctual fighting style, when he is fighting shape and mentally in the game yeah he can fight at a top level, but then that's Thor fighting humans at a near identical power level at that point to Thor, or IM who even with his suit isn't anywhere near Thor's power level, Thanos however is arguably far above that because he has Loki being subservient to him, where as Loki was willing and able to fight with Thor if need be, though Thor had the obvious advantage, so it's not like Thanos isn't established as being physically a match for Thor, but then you put Thanos in vicious fight form against out of shape and dulled sense's Thor it makes sense Thor would look like shit in that exchange.
The point about Thor being whipped on the ship is that even in his peak Thor got wrecked by Thanos and his people, so why wouldn't an out of shape Thor? Asguardians are after all extremely powerful beings, that Thanos & his people wasted half a ship full of them including battle proven Heimdall and Hulk with ease shows just how high that skill level is, Thor bestest Hulk but he did so with the near full use of his power in a prolonged fight, Thanos whooped Hulk like a bitch in like less than a minute.
Against lesser fighters Thor probably would look better in a fight, but he was against Thanos, that would be like putting Shamrock in the octagon with Jon Jones, Shamrock was a top guy in the UFC, fought for titles multiple times, but you put him as he is now in the ring with Jones and he'd get murdered same happened with Thor imo.
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Post by dazz on Jul 27, 2019 5:17:55 GMT
Bu that's Thor in battle condition, knowing that it's safer to block and doge than risk being enough of a tank to eat the blows, he still has naturally bad instincts over some things, like falling for Loki's illusions diving in without thinking, Thor's battle instincts were honed over years, which he has essentially drunk into oblivion, not only is he not as fast, strong or focused as he was but it isn't 2nd nature for him at this point, but maybe a few moments of his old instinct coming back wouldn't have hurt tbh, like once the armies clash if they had Thor tanking blows because he can but then starts fighting back more like he used to having him be like I think I'm getting my grove back, than have him get a big show of moment showing him using his training more.
But I think also all this happens before everyone knows the plan worked, except Hawkeye & Scott I think, so Thor could still be kinda suicidal at that point, thinking they failed and being less concerned for himself and jus being like "ok fuck it big swings only, either he dies or I do".
Theres ways to improve the fight scene obviously but then it's like ok how much time do you want to put in just to give people a yay Thor moment, over these other moments, I would have preferred them giving one to Thor rather than Captain Marvel though, she blew up Thanos's ship like it was nothing and gave him a bitch please look when he headbutted her, give one of those to Thor atleast or something comparable.
Diving after Loki's illusions is not bad instincts on Thor's part, that's smart planning on Loki's part. There's nothing wrong about trying to attack your foe when they look helpless. May not have been smart of Thor to do knowing Loki, but that doesn't make his instincts bad. And you can't really drink your instincts into oblivion like that, not in just 5 years after you've been training and fighting for over millennia. That's like saying a professional UFC champion at his prime loses all his instincts just because he took a month vacation. You might slow down, weaken, and yes your instincts might dull a bit but they won't completely disappear. Not like that. Like I said, the only explanation I could come up with for Thor fighting like that would be if he was still drunk. Did he manage to swipe his dads booze whilst they were in Asguard? also wouldn't be surprised tbh, they just lost Natasha, tried using the glove, not like they were expecting Thanos to show up, so Thor could have been drinking to mourn Natasha's death.
Could also have had a concussion, they did just get blown up and everything.
And not really in regards to the instinct thing he very well could lose instinctive skills at first especially after such a long down time, it just wouldn't stay lost, this is the whole rust thing, you forget just how to do things right and then click it all comes back, which is why I said if he had been shown improving in the fight I think it would have been fair, it's just an exaggeration of a normal thing.
And imo it's more like if an MMA fighter took a 4-6 months off to do hardcore partying, no training, excessive junk food, booze and possibly recreational drugs to then take a fight for a UFC Title on like a days notice if we are being fair, would you expect anyone to not look like shit in that situation?
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Post by ThatGuy on Jul 27, 2019 8:48:16 GMT
Thor beating Thanos in a fight would have been inconsistent. Even with Stormbreaker. Thanos didn't even use the Power stone on Hulk. Thor is a brute fighter that goes for the power swing. Thanos is a tactical fighter. If you've watched the rest of the MCU movies, you'd know that Thor is not just a brute fighter. Sure he doesn't do fancy flying kicks, but he's got the best bob and weave out of any of them and is quite skilled and agile as well. Just watch his fight scenes in Ragnarok. Besides, I wasn't saying he should beat Thanos, just put up a bit of a fight similar to how Wanda, IM, Captain America, Dr. Strange and Captain Marvel were able to put up a fight when they went up against Thanos one on one. The only time I can think of in Ragnarok where Thor really did something extra was when he went through the crowd at the end. Even then he just went through them as if he had the hammer.
Thor's go-to isn't using the electricity if he has the hammer/ axe. It's to swing/ throw the weapon. Even if he had a weapon, bringing down lightning is always a "Oh yeah? How about this?" move. And it just got to the point he's augmenting the weapon with electricity.
I see it this way: Thor wasn't mentally ready to go up against Thanos. It wasn't a body thing. You don't get over 5 years of depression overnight after a pep talk from your mom. I mean Thanos is the very source of that depression.
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Post by Skaathar on Jul 27, 2019 16:07:43 GMT
Diving after Loki's illusions is not bad instincts on Thor's part, that's smart planning on Loki's part. There's nothing wrong about trying to attack your foe when they look helpless. May not have been smart of Thor to do knowing Loki, but that doesn't make his instincts bad. And you can't really drink your instincts into oblivion like that, not in just 5 years after you've been training and fighting for over millennia. That's like saying a professional UFC champion at his prime loses all his instincts just because he took a month vacation. You might slow down, weaken, and yes your instincts might dull a bit but they won't completely disappear. Not like that. Like I said, the only explanation I could come up with for Thor fighting like that would be if he was still drunk. Did he manage to swipe his dads booze whilst they were in Asguard? also wouldn't be surprised tbh, they just lost Natasha, tried using the glove, not like they were expecting Thanos to show up, so Thor could have been drinking to mourn Natasha's death.
Could also have had a concussion, they did just get blown up and everything.
And not really in regards to the instinct thing he very well could lose instinctive skills at first especially after such a long down time, it just wouldn't stay lost, this is the whole rust thing, you forget just how to do things right and then click it all comes back, which is why I said if he had been shown improving in the fight I think it would have been fair, it's just an exaggeration of a normal thing.
And imo it's more like if an MMA fighter took a 4-6 months off to do hardcore partying, no training, excessive junk food, booze and possibly recreational drugs to then take a fight for a UFC Title on like a days notice if we are being fair, would you expect anyone to not look like shit in that situation?
A professional fighter could have been retired for years, they still maintain a decent amount of skill level. Yes you're slower, yes you're weaker, yes you get tired way faster, yes your instincts aren't as sharp... but you don't completely lose the skill and instincts that you've honed for majority of your life. 4-6 months of hard partying, no matter how hard, is not going to make a professional fighter lose his skill completely. He'll lose his edge but majority of the instincts will still be there. |
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Post by Skaathar on Jul 27, 2019 16:09:56 GMT
Sorry Dazz, but that whole first paragraph is just completely wrong. Thor wiped the floor with highly trained SHIELD agents while unarmed. He fought Ironman primarily without Mjolnir. The two times he's fought Hulk he was fighting unarmed for at least half the fight. He fought Hela while armed with a spear. He cleared out the Bifrost of Asgardian zombies while armed with lightning and swords. He was blasting Hela's spears out of the air with his lightning. He turned his lightning into pseudo swords and killed zombie Asgardians with it. I just posted a vid above where he, unarmed, took out 4 armed Asgardian. So to imply that Thor is only trained/skilled with a warhammer is just plain incorrect. He might be more skilled with it, but he has more than enough screen feats to showcase his skill without it and with different weapons. Just because he got a battleaxe (which isn't too different from a warhammer mind you) doesn't mean that he suddenly forgot how to fight. Also, to imply that he isn't skilled with his lightning is to completely ignore the final battle in Ragnarok. He showed way more mastery of lightning in that bridge fight than he's ever done before even with Mjolnir. As for Thanos and his crew vs. Thor... not sure what this has got to do with this fight. Thor isn't fighting Thanos and his entire crew, I don't expect him to win against Thanos let alone Thanos plus the black order. No because I am not saying he is unskilled without Mjolnir I am saying fighting with Mjolnir is his instinctual fighting style, when he is fighting shape and mentally in the game yeah he can fight at a top level, but then that's Thor fighting humans at a near identical power level at that point to Thor, or IM who even with his suit isn't anywhere near Thor's power level, Thanos however is arguably far above that because he has Loki being subservient to him, where as Loki was willing and able to fight with Thor if need be, though Thor had the obvious advantage, so it's not like Thanos isn't established as being physically a match for Thor, but then you put Thanos in vicious fight form against out of shape and dulled sense's Thor it makes sense Thor would look like shit in that exchange.
The point about Thor being whipped on the ship is that even in his peak Thor got wrecked by Thanos and his people, so why wouldn't an out of shape Thor? Asguardians are after all extremely powerful beings, that Thanos & his people wasted half a ship full of them including battle proven Heimdall and Hulk with ease shows just how high that skill level is, Thor bestest Hulk but he did so with the near full use of his power in a prolonged fight, Thanos whooped Hulk like a bitch in like less than a minute.
Against lesser fighters Thor probably would look better in a fight, but he was against Thanos, that would be like putting Shamrock in the octagon with Jon Jones, Shamrock was a top guy in the UFC, fought for titles multiple times, but you put him as he is now in the ring with Jones and he'd get murdered same happened with Thor imo.
This would have made sense IF guys like IM, Strange, Wanda, Captain America and Captain Marvel weren't able to give Thanos a tough fight. The fact that they could is proof that Thanos isn't so far above them that he's untouchable. Also, there's a big difference between getting whipped by 5 people vs getting whipped by just one. |
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Post by Skaathar on Jul 27, 2019 16:15:26 GMT
If you've watched the rest of the MCU movies, you'd know that Thor is not just a brute fighter. Sure he doesn't do fancy flying kicks, but he's got the best bob and weave out of any of them and is quite skilled and agile as well. Just watch his fight scenes in Ragnarok. Besides, I wasn't saying he should beat Thanos, just put up a bit of a fight similar to how Wanda, IM, Captain America, Dr. Strange and Captain Marvel were able to put up a fight when they went up against Thanos one on one. The only time I can think of in Ragnarok where Thor really did something extra was when he went through the crowd at the end. Even then he just went through them as if he had the hammer.
Thor's go-to isn't using the electricity if he has the hammer/ axe. It's to swing/ throw the weapon. Even if he had a weapon, bringing down lightning is always a "Oh yeah? How about this?" move. And it just got to the point he's augmenting the weapon with electricity.
I see it this way: Thor wasn't mentally ready to go up against Thanos. It wasn't a body thing. You don't get over 5 years of depression overnight after a pep talk from your mom. I mean Thanos is the very source of that depression.
So Thor ducking and dodging multiple hits from guys like IM, Hulk and Hela don't count? Him leaping over Hulk's hits, him blocking chitauri laser fire with his hammer? How bout blasting Hela's spears out of the sky before it could hit him? How bout using tactics to defeat the Destroyer? How bout using lightning blasts to defeat Loki, the leviathans, the frost giants, Thanos' forces, etc.? Watch Infinity War again. Majority of his attacks there are lightning based or assisted and not simply "swinging the axe". You also don't completely lose 1000 years worth of training and experience just because you had a 5 year slump. |
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Post by ThatGuy on Jul 27, 2019 19:48:17 GMT
The only time I can think of in Ragnarok where Thor really did something extra was when he went through the crowd at the end. Even then he just went through them as if he had the hammer.
Thor's go-to isn't using the electricity if he has the hammer/ axe. It's to swing/ throw the weapon. Even if he had a weapon, bringing down lightning is always a "Oh yeah? How about this?" move. And it just got to the point he's augmenting the weapon with electricity.
I see it this way: Thor wasn't mentally ready to go up against Thanos. It wasn't a body thing. You don't get over 5 years of depression overnight after a pep talk from your mom. I mean Thanos is the very source of that depression.
So Thor ducking and dodging multiple hits from guys like IM, Hulk and Hela don't count? Him leaping over Hulk's hits, him blocking chitauri laser fire with his hammer? How bout blasting Hela's spears out of the sky before it could hit him? How bout using tactics to defeat the Destroyer? How bout using lightning blasts to defeat Loki, the leviathans, the frost giants, Thanos' forces, etc.? Watch Infinity War again. Majority of his attacks there are lightning based or assisted and not simply "swinging the axe". You also don't completely lose 1000 years worth of training and experience just because you had a 5 year slump. Ducking and dodging doesn't take away from him being a brute of a fighter. Superman ducks and dodges and he's a brute fighter. Brute doesn't automatically mean tank. Thor is between Hulk and Captain America, but closer to Hulk.
Watching a Thor fight compilation up to Ragnarok. Doesn't change what I said. Thor is a brute character that goes for the big swing or "one-hitter quitter". Sometimes he'll even block an attack then go for the KO with Mjolnir. The only time he does anything else is when he doesn't have a strong weapon (random weapon or bare hands). Also, noticed he does that slide dodge a lot.
I'm talking about his mental state. Yes, you have over a millennia of fighting experience, but 5 years is still a long time of depression and doubting yourself.
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Post by dazz on Jul 27, 2019 21:25:45 GMT
No because I am not saying he is unskilled without Mjolnir I am saying fighting with Mjolnir is his instinctual fighting style, when he is fighting shape and mentally in the game yeah he can fight at a top level, but then that's Thor fighting humans at a near identical power level at that point to Thor, or IM who even with his suit isn't anywhere near Thor's power level, Thanos however is arguably far above that because he has Loki being subservient to him, where as Loki was willing and able to fight with Thor if need be, though Thor had the obvious advantage, so it's not like Thanos isn't established as being physically a match for Thor, but then you put Thanos in vicious fight form against out of shape and dulled sense's Thor it makes sense Thor would look like shit in that exchange.
The point about Thor being whipped on the ship is that even in his peak Thor got wrecked by Thanos and his people, so why wouldn't an out of shape Thor? Asguardians are after all extremely powerful beings, that Thanos & his people wasted half a ship full of them including battle proven Heimdall and Hulk with ease shows just how high that skill level is, Thor bestest Hulk but he did so with the near full use of his power in a prolonged fight, Thanos whooped Hulk like a bitch in like less than a minute.
Against lesser fighters Thor probably would look better in a fight, but he was against Thanos, that would be like putting Shamrock in the octagon with Jon Jones, Shamrock was a top guy in the UFC, fought for titles multiple times, but you put him as he is now in the ring with Jones and he'd get murdered same happened with Thor imo.
This would have made sense IF guys like IM, Strange, Wanda, Captain America and Captain Marvel weren't able to give Thanos a tough fight. The fact that they could is proof that Thanos isn't so far above them that he's untouchable. Also, there's a big difference between getting whipped by 5 people vs getting whipped by just one. Wanda & Carol's power's are derived from the Infinity Stones, saying well if they can do this cant Thor do that is silly, especially when again this is Carol and Wanda in fighting form and at their best, Wanda's power is enough to possibly kill Thanos yes but she cannot take a unprotected blow from him, she didn't put up a fight she surprised Thanos and almost killed him, bit of a difference, and Carol is established to be tough enough to torpedo through space ships and force fields like a warm knife through butter and travel at hyper speeds in space without needing protection, she's OP as fuck basically so that's not a fair comparison either.
Strange and Tony put up fights with Thanos when he wanted something from them, he wasn't just trying to kill them, if they died without giving him the stone he was fucked, Thanos in IW wasn't trying to kill individual people, Thanos in Endgame was.
Cap putting up a fight I would give you if we knew Asgardian reflexes and senses were superior to humans, we don't and Cap is far above human maximums and he actually kept mostly in fighting form and was wielding Mjolnir.
Amd Thor alone did not get beat by 5 people he and an entire ship of his people plus a handful of skilled/powerful warriors in Valkyrie, Meek, Korg, Loki, Heimdall and Hulk, and it's the point that Thor at the top of his game still got owned by Thanos, in EG same happened but Thor is out of shape, not in the right mindset, and rusty as fuck, I just don't see it as that outrageous that it happened I guess.
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Post by Skaathar on Jul 27, 2019 22:39:54 GMT
So Thor ducking and dodging multiple hits from guys like IM, Hulk and Hela don't count? Him leaping over Hulk's hits, him blocking chitauri laser fire with his hammer? How bout blasting Hela's spears out of the sky before it could hit him? How bout using tactics to defeat the Destroyer? How bout using lightning blasts to defeat Loki, the leviathans, the frost giants, Thanos' forces, etc.? Watch Infinity War again. Majority of his attacks there are lightning based or assisted and not simply "swinging the axe". You also don't completely lose 1000 years worth of training and experience just because you had a 5 year slump. Ducking and dodging doesn't take away from him being a brute of a fighter. Superman ducks and dodges and he's a brute fighter. Brute doesn't automatically mean tank. Thor is between Hulk and Captain America, but closer to Hulk.
Watching a Thor fight compilation up to Ragnarok. Doesn't change what I said. Thor is a brute character that goes for the big swing or "one-hitter quitter". Sometimes he'll even block an attack then go for the KO with Mjolnir. The only time he does anything else is when he doesn't have a strong weapon (random weapon or bare hands). Also, noticed he does that slide dodge a lot.
I'm talking about his mental state. Yes, you have over a millennia of fighting experience, but 5 years is still a long time of depression and doubting yourself.
I'm not sure you know what it means to be a "brute of a fighter". Out of curiosity, what do think a fighter needs to be to not be considered a brute fighter? |
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Post by Skaathar on Jul 27, 2019 22:46:06 GMT
This would have made sense IF guys like IM, Strange, Wanda, Captain America and Captain Marvel weren't able to give Thanos a tough fight. The fact that they could is proof that Thanos isn't so far above them that he's untouchable. Also, there's a big difference between getting whipped by 5 people vs getting whipped by just one. Wanda & Carol's power's are derived from the Infinity Stones, saying well if they can do this cant Thor do that is silly, especially when again this is Carol and Wanda in fighting form and at their best, Wanda's power is enough to possibly kill Thanos yes but she cannot take a unprotected blow from him, she didn't put up a fight she surprised Thanos and almost killed him, bit of a difference, and Carol is established to be tough enough to torpedo through space ships and force fields like a warm knife through butter and travel at hyper speeds in space without needing protection, she's OP as fuck basically so that's not a fair comparison either.
Strange and Tony put up fights with Thanos when he wanted something from them, he wasn't just trying to kill them, if they died without giving him the stone he was fucked, Thanos in IW wasn't trying to kill individual people, Thanos in Endgame was.
Cap putting up a fight I would give you if we knew Asgardian reflexes and senses were superior to humans, we don't and Cap is far above human maximums and he actually kept mostly in fighting form and was wielding Mjolnir.
Amd Thor alone did not get beat by 5 people he and an entire ship of his people plus a handful of skilled/powerful warriors in Valkyrie, Meek, Korg, Loki, Heimdall and Hulk, and it's the point that Thor at the top of his game still got owned by Thanos, in EG same happened but Thor is out of shape, not in the right mindset, and rusty as fuck, I just don't see it as that outrageous that it happened I guess.
Meh, we can make excuses and reasons all day long. We can always make an excuse and reason for something if we look hard enough. In the end, being depressed and out of shape should not have equaled completely forgetting all your skills. The fact that guys like IM and Strange could put up a fight against Thanos with an IG better than fat Thor can against sword wielding Thanos shows that they really dropped Thor's power level. It's simply not a realistic scenario that this would have been caused by only 5 years of depression and drinking. Also, prime Thor never got owned by Thanos. Don't know where you got that from. We never saw prime Thor fight Thanos in a fair fight. Valkyrie and Korg and the rest had escaped from the Asgardian ship and didn't engage Thanos. Loki and Hulk only engaged Thanos after Thor was already beaten to a pulp. |
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Post by dazz on Jul 28, 2019 2:24:12 GMT
Wanda & Carol's power's are derived from the Infinity Stones, saying well if they can do this cant Thor do that is silly, especially when again this is Carol and Wanda in fighting form and at their best, Wanda's power is enough to possibly kill Thanos yes but she cannot take a unprotected blow from him, she didn't put up a fight she surprised Thanos and almost killed him, bit of a difference, and Carol is established to be tough enough to torpedo through space ships and force fields like a warm knife through butter and travel at hyper speeds in space without needing protection, she's OP as fuck basically so that's not a fair comparison either.
Strange and Tony put up fights with Thanos when he wanted something from them, he wasn't just trying to kill them, if they died without giving him the stone he was fucked, Thanos in IW wasn't trying to kill individual people, Thanos in Endgame was.
Cap putting up a fight I would give you if we knew Asgardian reflexes and senses were superior to humans, we don't and Cap is far above human maximums and he actually kept mostly in fighting form and was wielding Mjolnir.
Amd Thor alone did not get beat by 5 people he and an entire ship of his people plus a handful of skilled/powerful warriors in Valkyrie, Meek, Korg, Loki, Heimdall and Hulk, and it's the point that Thor at the top of his game still got owned by Thanos, in EG same happened but Thor is out of shape, not in the right mindset, and rusty as fuck, I just don't see it as that outrageous that it happened I guess.
Meh, we can make excuses and reasons all day long. We can always make an excuse and reason for something if we look hard enough. In the end, being depressed and out of shape should not have equaled completely forgetting all your skills. The fact that guys like IM and Strange could put up a fight against Thanos with an IG better than fat Thor can against sword wielding Thanos shows that they really dropped Thor's power level. It's simply not a realistic scenario that this would have been caused by only 5 years of depression and drinking. Also, prime Thor never got owned by Thanos. Don't know where you got that from. We never saw prime Thor fight Thanos in a fair fight. Valkyrie and Korg and the rest had escaped from the Asgardian ship and didn't engage Thanos. Loki and Hulk only engaged Thanos after Thor was already beaten to a pulp. See now you are making excuses, you are also repeatedly creating arbitrary points of comparison which prove nothing, so what if Strange held his own against Thanos, he's the sorcerer supreme, when or were has the MCU stated Strange is not on par or superior to Thor at their peaks?
With IM the only example is in Avengers 1 when Thor was able to crush Stark's suit with his bare hands, but that was a decade ago in universe, and with Tony only upgrading his suits to face threats he had known of, who is to say Tony's suit's especially his nano suits aren't vastly superior?
And again that wasn't Thanos looking to kill them in cold blood like he was in Endgame, plus it wasn't even just 2 or 3 on 1 but 6 on 1, and Thanos clearly not trying his best as he could have killed them all easily using the stones as he proved on Knowhere when he turned Drax & Mantis into blocks and ribbons.
Then there's Thor never got owned by Thanos bit, I mean really who do you think kicked the shit out of him? now had the excuse been we don't know if Thanos did that on his own or by using the power stone it would be fair enough, but we see in IW the Asgardians are all types of fucked up Thor is on the ground a Thanos's feet who then picks him up and drags him around whilst he talks about knowing how it feels, and it's not proven that Valkyrie, Korg & Meek didn't try and fight with Thor and the others, just that they got away, but how I don't recall being said, could be they ran via escape pods, Heimdall using the Bifrost or Thanos allowing them to leave intentionally.
But is your issue with Thors fighting skill based on that 30 second fight clip you posted? if so that is beyond daft, for one Thor does put his hands up when Thanos throws him into the wall, Thanos pulls his arms free and quickly nails him twice, then throws him after which he stomps and immediately punches him again less than a second after Thor hits the floor, so is that the big complaint? that Thor didn't have Neo like reflexes after being ragdolled? It's not like Thor is that way anyway, Hulk punched him across the arena dove on him and pummelled him except he did so much slower than Thanos did, and this is peak Thor we are talking about, and Hulk who was shown to be no match for Thanos in a fight due to Thanos's own training and speed.
Yes you can find excuses if you look hard enough, you can also find faults, which is exactly what you have done, you found fault with Thor's prowess based on a single 30 seconds of a fight scene seemingly, but it's no different to another fight Thor had in another movie, where he again got pummelled, that time however Thor instinctively used his lightning, this time he summoned his weapon, and after less of a pounding too, only real difference here was Thor didn't summon the lightning to stop Thanos killing him because Cap stopped him by using Mjolnir instead.
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Post by Skaathar on Jul 28, 2019 18:07:25 GMT
Meh, we can make excuses and reasons all day long. We can always make an excuse and reason for something if we look hard enough. In the end, being depressed and out of shape should not have equaled completely forgetting all your skills. The fact that guys like IM and Strange could put up a fight against Thanos with an IG better than fat Thor can against sword wielding Thanos shows that they really dropped Thor's power level. It's simply not a realistic scenario that this would have been caused by only 5 years of depression and drinking. Also, prime Thor never got owned by Thanos. Don't know where you got that from. We never saw prime Thor fight Thanos in a fair fight. Valkyrie and Korg and the rest had escaped from the Asgardian ship and didn't engage Thanos. Loki and Hulk only engaged Thanos after Thor was already beaten to a pulp. See now you are making excuses, you are also repeatedly creating arbitrary points of comparison which prove nothing, so what if Strange held his own against Thanos, he's the sorcerer supreme, when or were has the MCU stated Strange is not on par or superior to Thor at their peaks?
With IM the only example is in Avengers 1 when Thor was able to crush Stark's suit with his bare hands, but that was a decade ago in universe, and with Tony only upgrading his suits to face threats he had known of, who is to say Tony's suit's especially his nano suits aren't vastly superior?
And again that wasn't Thanos looking to kill them in cold blood like he was in Endgame, plus it wasn't even just 2 or 3 on 1 but 6 on 1, and Thanos clearly not trying his best as he could have killed them all easily using the stones as he proved on Knowhere when he turned Drax & Mantis into blocks and ribbons.
Then there's Thor never got owned by Thanos bit, I mean really who do you think kicked the shit out of him? now had the excuse been we don't know if Thanos did that on his own or by using the power stone it would be fair enough, but we see in IW the Asgardians are all types of fucked up Thor is on the ground a Thanos's feet who then picks him up and drags him around whilst he talks about knowing how it feels, and it's not proven that Valkyrie, Korg & Meek didn't try and fight with Thor and the others, just that they got away, but how I don't recall being said, could be they ran via escape pods, Heimdall using the Bifrost or Thanos allowing them to leave intentionally.
But is your issue with Thors fighting skill based on that 30 second fight clip you posted? if so that is beyond daft, for one Thor does put his hands up when Thanos throws him into the wall, Thanos pulls his arms free and quickly nails him twice, then throws him after which he stomps and immediately punches him again less than a second after Thor hits the floor, so is that the big complaint? that Thor didn't have Neo like reflexes after being ragdolled? It's not like Thor is that way anyway, Hulk punched him across the arena dove on him and pummelled him except he did so much slower than Thanos did, and this is peak Thor we are talking about, and Hulk who was shown to be no match for Thanos in a fight due to Thanos's own training and speed.
Yes you can find excuses if you look hard enough, you can also find faults, which is exactly what you have done, you found fault with Thor's prowess based on a single 30 seconds of a fight scene seemingly, but it's no different to another fight Thor had in another movie, where he again got pummelled, that time however Thor instinctively used his lightning, this time he summoned his weapon, and after less of a pounding too, only real difference here was Thor didn't summon the lightning to stop Thanos killing him because Cap stopped him by using Mjolnir instead.
Note that I said We never saw prime Thor fight Thanos in a fair fight. When you say "Thor got owned by Thanos", that implies that Thanos did it on his own. There's nothing to prove that happened. Had you said "Thanos w/ the power stone and his black order beat the shit out of Thor" then I wouldn't have disagreed with that. As for Strange being the Sorcerer supreme or Wanda or Stark... are you telling me that they're supposedly that much more powerful than Thor? Because it seems that's what you're implying. As for finding excuses... you say I'm fault finding. That's not what I'm doing. I'm pointing out that nothing Thor did was impressive. Had he been doing impressive stuff and had some faults in between, then me pointing them out would be fault finding. But I'm pointing out EVERYTHING he did, and stating that they were incongruent with what we know of Thor. I'm pointing out that having a 5 year slump would never realistically result in what we see of Thor's fighting prowess here, not when we consider what we know of him. You don't need to agree with me, but you're the one who originally questioned my stance and all I'm doing is defending it. Coming up with reasons to try and explain Thor's performance is not going to change the fact that Thor (and Hulk) were ridiculously downgraded in this movie in an unrealistic manner.
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Post by dazz on Jul 29, 2019 3:16:54 GMT
See now you are making excuses, you are also repeatedly creating arbitrary points of comparison which prove nothing, so what if Strange held his own against Thanos, he's the sorcerer supreme, when or were has the MCU stated Strange is not on par or superior to Thor at their peaks?
With IM the only example is in Avengers 1 when Thor was able to crush Stark's suit with his bare hands, but that was a decade ago in universe, and with Tony only upgrading his suits to face threats he had known of, who is to say Tony's suit's especially his nano suits aren't vastly superior?
And again that wasn't Thanos looking to kill them in cold blood like he was in Endgame, plus it wasn't even just 2 or 3 on 1 but 6 on 1, and Thanos clearly not trying his best as he could have killed them all easily using the stones as he proved on Knowhere when he turned Drax & Mantis into blocks and ribbons.
Then there's Thor never got owned by Thanos bit, I mean really who do you think kicked the shit out of him? now had the excuse been we don't know if Thanos did that on his own or by using the power stone it would be fair enough, but we see in IW the Asgardians are all types of fucked up Thor is on the ground a Thanos's feet who then picks him up and drags him around whilst he talks about knowing how it feels, and it's not proven that Valkyrie, Korg & Meek didn't try and fight with Thor and the others, just that they got away, but how I don't recall being said, could be they ran via escape pods, Heimdall using the Bifrost or Thanos allowing them to leave intentionally.
But is your issue with Thors fighting skill based on that 30 second fight clip you posted? if so that is beyond daft, for one Thor does put his hands up when Thanos throws him into the wall, Thanos pulls his arms free and quickly nails him twice, then throws him after which he stomps and immediately punches him again less than a second after Thor hits the floor, so is that the big complaint? that Thor didn't have Neo like reflexes after being ragdolled? It's not like Thor is that way anyway, Hulk punched him across the arena dove on him and pummelled him except he did so much slower than Thanos did, and this is peak Thor we are talking about, and Hulk who was shown to be no match for Thanos in a fight due to Thanos's own training and speed.
Yes you can find excuses if you look hard enough, you can also find faults, which is exactly what you have done, you found fault with Thor's prowess based on a single 30 seconds of a fight scene seemingly, but it's no different to another fight Thor had in another movie, where he again got pummelled, that time however Thor instinctively used his lightning, this time he summoned his weapon, and after less of a pounding too, only real difference here was Thor didn't summon the lightning to stop Thanos killing him because Cap stopped him by using Mjolnir instead.
Note that I said We never saw prime Thor fight Thanos in a fair fight. When you say "Thor got owned by Thanos", that implies that Thanos did it on his own. There's nothing to prove that happened. Had you said "Thanos w/ the power stone and his black order beat the shit out of Thor" then I wouldn't have disagreed with that. As for Strange being the Sorcerer supreme or Wanda or Stark... are you telling me that they're supposedly that much more powerful than Thor? Because it seems that's what you're implying. As for finding excuses... you say I'm fault finding. That's not what I'm doing. I'm pointing out that nothing Thor did was impressive. Had he been doing impressive stuff and had some faults in between, then me pointing them out would be fault finding. But I'm pointing out EVERYTHING he did, and stating that they were incongruent with what we know of Thor. I'm pointing out that having a 5 year slump would never realistically result in what we see of Thor's fighting prowess here, not when we consider what we know of him. You don't need to agree with me, but you're the one who originally questioned my stance and all I'm doing is defending it. Coming up with reasons to try and explain Thor's performance is not going to change the fact that Thor (and Hulk) were ridiculously downgraded in this movie in an unrealistic manner. Actually what we disagree on is the believability, I agree and have said as much repeatedly that Thor didn't get the moments he should have, neither did Hulk and they could have and should have had more big moments, especially Hulk if he isn't going to be a major player going forward, if this was the end of his arc he went out like a wet fart, which could have been fixed had the snap been used to obviously show him weakened far more to justify it or had it "killed" The Hulk leaving only Banner.
You are saying though that Thor's 5 years of depression and partying don't account for his lack of prowess, but then you only showed that one clip, in which Thor takes all of 4 shots unprotected in rapid succession the first of which he does try to block and then the last two come after being thrown into a rock and attacked again in less than a second.
As I pointed out this happens to Thor but to a much more egregious degree in Ragnarok Hulk punches him across the arena, with a blow Thor saw coming but didn't defend himself against mind you, then dove on him and started donkey kong punching him buty with far slower and far more blows than Thanos did, Thanos who was also shown to be far quicker than Hulk when throwing hands, so that's not lowering his prowess at all.
But even if it was saying 5 years of depression and booze shouldn't have impacted his fighting skills is silly, it would have dulled his senses, his reflexes, his instincts, and his fitness any of which can impact fighting ability, so lowering all will most certainly impact fighting ability.
I still agree Thor should have gotten a oh shit moment in there, I mean they could have given him the headbutt moment with Thanos, have Thor like he was when he charged Hulk with his lightning everywhere hold Thanos from using the glove, lightning in his eyes, Thanos headbutt's him and it doesn't do shit showing this is what Thor's power is like when he's using it fully, then have Thanos like he did with Carol punch him with the power of the Power stone, because as I said I don't think Carol needed both that and destroying Thanos's mega space ship as her holy shit moments.
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Post by ThatGuy on Jul 29, 2019 20:04:22 GMT
Ducking and dodging doesn't take away from him being a brute of a fighter. Superman ducks and dodges and he's a brute fighter. Brute doesn't automatically mean tank. Thor is between Hulk and Captain America, but closer to Hulk.
Watching a Thor fight compilation up to Ragnarok. Doesn't change what I said. Thor is a brute character that goes for the big swing or "one-hitter quitter". Sometimes he'll even block an attack then go for the KO with Mjolnir. The only time he does anything else is when he doesn't have a strong weapon (random weapon or bare hands). Also, noticed he does that slide dodge a lot.
I'm talking about his mental state. Yes, you have over a millennia of fighting experience, but 5 years is still a long time of depression and doubting yourself.
I'm not sure you know what it means to be a "brute of a fighter". Out of curiosity, what do think a fighter needs to be to not be considered a brute fighter? To be more tactical. Like I said Thor goes for the big swings. He goes for the KO 1st. But at the same time, it's mostly when he has Mjolnir or Stormbreaker. Thor is the type that would go through the wall instead of a window or trying the door. lol
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Post by Skaathar on Jul 29, 2019 20:37:54 GMT
I'm not sure you know what it means to be a "brute of a fighter". Out of curiosity, what do think a fighter needs to be to not be considered a brute fighter? To be more tactical. Like I said Thor goes for the big swings. He goes for the KO 1st. But at the same time, it's mostly when he has Mjolnir or Stormbreaker. Thor is the type that would go through the wall instead of a window or trying the door. lol Going for a KO does not make one a brute. In fact, it's one of the smartest things to do. You want to take out your opponent as fast as you can, not dance around with them. Even Captain America who is considered one of the best fighters in the MCU normally takes out fodder in about 1-3 hits. He only goes more than that when he's faced with a skilled fighter. Thor is no different in this regard. He'll go for a KO if he can with one hit, but against difficult opponents like Loki and Hulk he'll use a variety of hits to get the job done. A brute fighter is someone who tries to win a fight by pure strength, toughness and aggressiveness. Someone who has very little skill or finesse. Someone like Hulk or even Jessica Jones. Dodging and ducking attacks on the other hand is a very hard skill to learn. Way way easier to learn how to throw complex punch combinations and spinning heel kicks than to learn how to properly dodge attacks in actual combat. Anyone who can easily duck/dodge hits like Thor does in the movie is way too skilled to be referred to as a brute fighter. Does this look like a brute fighter to you?
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Post by Skaathar on Jul 29, 2019 20:52:07 GMT
Note that I said We never saw prime Thor fight Thanos in a fair fight. When you say "Thor got owned by Thanos", that implies that Thanos did it on his own. There's nothing to prove that happened. Had you said "Thanos w/ the power stone and his black order beat the shit out of Thor" then I wouldn't have disagreed with that. As for Strange being the Sorcerer supreme or Wanda or Stark... are you telling me that they're supposedly that much more powerful than Thor? Because it seems that's what you're implying. As for finding excuses... you say I'm fault finding. That's not what I'm doing. I'm pointing out that nothing Thor did was impressive. Had he been doing impressive stuff and had some faults in between, then me pointing them out would be fault finding. But I'm pointing out EVERYTHING he did, and stating that they were incongruent with what we know of Thor. I'm pointing out that having a 5 year slump would never realistically result in what we see of Thor's fighting prowess here, not when we consider what we know of him. You don't need to agree with me, but you're the one who originally questioned my stance and all I'm doing is defending it. Coming up with reasons to try and explain Thor's performance is not going to change the fact that Thor (and Hulk) were ridiculously downgraded in this movie in an unrealistic manner. Actually what we disagree on is the believability, I agree and have said as much repeatedly that Thor didn't get the moments he should have, neither did Hulk and they could have and should have had more big moments, especially Hulk if he isn't going to be a major player going forward, if this was the end of his arc he went out like a wet fart, which could have been fixed had the snap been used to obviously show him weakened far more to justify it or had it "killed" The Hulk leaving only Banner.
You are saying though that Thor's 5 years of depression and partying don't account for his lack of prowess, but then you only showed that one clip, in which Thor takes all of 4 shots unprotected in rapid succession the first of which he does try to block and then the last two come after being thrown into a rock and attacked again in less than a second.
As I pointed out this happens to Thor but to a much more egregious degree in Ragnarok Hulk punches him across the arena, with a blow Thor saw coming but didn't defend himself against mind you, then dove on him and started donkey kong punching him buty with far slower and far more blows than Thanos did, Thanos who was also shown to be far quicker than Hulk when throwing hands, so that's not lowering his prowess at all.
But even if it was saying 5 years of depression and booze shouldn't have impacted his fighting skills is silly, it would have dulled his senses, his reflexes, his instincts, and his fitness any of which can impact fighting ability, so lowering all will most certainly impact fighting ability.
I still agree Thor should have gotten a oh shit moment in there, I mean they could have given him the headbutt moment with Thanos, have Thor like he was when he charged Hulk with his lightning everywhere hold Thanos from using the glove, lightning in his eyes, Thanos headbutt's him and it doesn't do shit showing this is what Thor's power is like when he's using it fully, then have Thanos like he did with Carol punch him with the power of the Power stone, because as I said I don't think Carol needed both that and destroying Thanos's mega space ship as her holy shit moments.
When did I ever say his 5 year slump would have no effect on his fighting ability? I said it should not have had this big of an impact, as if he suddenly became a completely different person. 5 years of inactivity out of more than a thousand years of fighting experience and training should not have made him into such an inept fighter. Again, I'm not saying he should have defeated Thanos, not saying he should have been just as good as he was before, but certainly should have been able to do more than stay there and become a punching bag. I grew up in a family and environment of martial artists. A few years of depression and inactivity doesn't make you lose that much of your skills that fast. You might be slower, duller, weaker, but your muscle memory should still be there. You say I'm only focusing on that one clip. Fine, show me other clips of him in Endgame displaying remnants of his skill. As for your example of Thor in Ragnarok, that's a bad example. For one, Thor actually was giving Hulk hell of a fight there, even before he unlocked his lightning god powers. And obviously the fact that Thor was trying to talk to Hulk and reason with him is a huge factor, as he isn't trying to talk to and reason with Thanos.
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Post by dazz on Jul 29, 2019 22:24:03 GMT
Actually what we disagree on is the believability, I agree and have said as much repeatedly that Thor didn't get the moments he should have, neither did Hulk and they could have and should have had more big moments, especially Hulk if he isn't going to be a major player going forward, if this was the end of his arc he went out like a wet fart, which could have been fixed had the snap been used to obviously show him weakened far more to justify it or had it "killed" The Hulk leaving only Banner.
You are saying though that Thor's 5 years of depression and partying don't account for his lack of prowess, but then you only showed that one clip, in which Thor takes all of 4 shots unprotected in rapid succession the first of which he does try to block and then the last two come after being thrown into a rock and attacked again in less than a second.
As I pointed out this happens to Thor but to a much more egregious degree in Ragnarok Hulk punches him across the arena, with a blow Thor saw coming but didn't defend himself against mind you, then dove on him and started donkey kong punching him buty with far slower and far more blows than Thanos did, Thanos who was also shown to be far quicker than Hulk when throwing hands, so that's not lowering his prowess at all.
But even if it was saying 5 years of depression and booze shouldn't have impacted his fighting skills is silly, it would have dulled his senses, his reflexes, his instincts, and his fitness any of which can impact fighting ability, so lowering all will most certainly impact fighting ability.
I still agree Thor should have gotten a oh shit moment in there, I mean they could have given him the headbutt moment with Thanos, have Thor like he was when he charged Hulk with his lightning everywhere hold Thanos from using the glove, lightning in his eyes, Thanos headbutt's him and it doesn't do shit showing this is what Thor's power is like when he's using it fully, then have Thanos like he did with Carol punch him with the power of the Power stone, because as I said I don't think Carol needed both that and destroying Thanos's mega space ship as her holy shit moments.
When did I ever say his 5 year slump would have no effect on his fighting ability? I said it should not have had this big of an impact, as if he suddenly became a completely different person. 5 years of inactivity out of more than a thousand years of fighting experience and training should not have made him into such an inept fighter. Again, I'm not saying he should have defeated Thanos, not saying he should have been just as good as he was before, but certainly should have been able to do more than stay there and become a punching bag. I grew up in a family and environment of martial artists. A few years of depression and inactivity doesn't make you lose that much of your skills that fast. You might be slower, duller, weaker, but your muscle memory should still be there. You say I'm only focusing on that one clip. Fine, show me other clips of him in Endgame displaying remnants of his skill. As for your example of Thor in Ragnarok, that's a bad example. For one, Thor actually was giving Hulk hell of a fight there, even before he unlocked his lightning god powers. And obviously the fact that Thor was trying to talk to Hulk and reason with him is a huge factor, as he isn't trying to talk to and reason with Thanos. It didn't have a big effect, what happened to Fat Thor happened to Skinny Thor, but by a slower and less skilled fighter, one who when he pummelled Thor couldn't break his skin, Thanos did, so Thanos seemingly has more powerful or damaging punches than Hulk, so Thor being rocked by them to the point he doesn't cover up isn't a massive drop in skill, and Hulk battered thor after blocking a hammer shot and uppercutting a dumbstruck thunder god, compared to Thanos who grappled with Thor and threw him then pulled away his blocking and pummelled him before throwing him again stomping him and pummelling a little more, Thor literally spent 6 seconds being beaten by Thanos compared to how long Hulk was donkey konging him.
You are acting like not showcasing Thor is the same as regressing is skills, it's not they literally just don't show Thor being awesome, at no point are we seen Thor being pummelled by anyone but Thanos, did they fail to make Thor look awesome? yes they did but that's not the same thing, I don't know why you think it is.
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