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Post by Prime etc. on Sept 1, 2019 0:44:47 GMT
A writer from Hong Kong (Jeanette Ng) was awarded the prize for Best New Author at the Hugos and she called Campbell a fascist in her acceptance speech--so the award was changed to The Astounding Award for Best New Writer.
'The decision to remove Campbell’s name from the award came after this year’s winner, Jeannette Ng, criticized him in her acceptance speech. “He is responsible for setting a tone for science fiction that haunts this genre to this very day,” she said. “Stale, sterile, male, white, exalting in the ambitions of imperialists, colonialists, settlers and industrialists.”'
It is ironic that her hostility to a writer dead for 50 years actually reinforces his view on the problems of multiculturalism. Based on her background, she probably considers Who Goes There? to be about evil white men tormenting an alien wanting to bring cultural enrichment to earth.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2019 1:21:32 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2019 3:04:13 GMT
That is sick.
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Post by Prime etc. on Sept 1, 2019 11:19:44 GMT
She is incredibly obnoxious. She isn't just insulting Campbell--that's rude but that's not as bad as what she really said--which is that Campbell was immoral for being a European who championed European culture (especially at a time when whites were the vast majority of the audience) and therefore, his editorial choices were wrong and those who liked his editorial choices have bad taste-this from someone who was not the intended audience of Campbell's writing. He was not writing or making editorial choices for Chinese women. Furthermore, since her specialty is English literature and history, she is basically suggesting she knows best about European culture. Imagine if someone from Europe went to China, was accepted in the society, and then won some honor and turned around to say that Chinese had bad tastes because they were too Chinese-centric. That is what she did.
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Post by Carl LaFong on Sept 1, 2019 11:23:30 GMT
Campbell said blacks in America wanted desperately to be enslaved again. He sounds like a loony tune!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2019 12:37:26 GMT
BTW, there is still a John Campbell award from the Center for the Study of Science Fiction for the best Sci Fi Novel... It will be interesting to see if the Center follows suit.
It's not like this guy wrote his opinions in a diary or letter here. He published some pretty strong stuff from the Editors chair of Analog during the push for civil rights.
There are a lot of renamings and people getting all up in arms over what was written in the past because those calling for renaming can't put themselves in the time period and realize how society evolves, and those changes bother me because they cause us to lose context of why the award was named after the person and what they did for their respective genre.
In this case, I am not bothered. The guy did a lot for sci-fi, but he was also outspoken with some very racist viewpoints and publishing them using his sci-fi magazine as a pulpit. The context in this case has not been lost.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2019 15:59:02 GMT
She is incredibly obnoxious. She isn't just insulting Campbell--that's rude but that's not as bad as what she really said--which is that Campbell was immoral for being a European who championed European culture (especially at a time when whites were the vast majority of the audience) and therefore, his editorial choices were wrong and those who liked his editorial choices have bad taste-this from someone who was not the intended audience of Campbell's writing. He was not writing or making editorial choices for Chinese women. Furthermore, since her specialty is English literature and history, she is basically suggesting she knows best about European culture. Imagine if someone from Europe went to China, was accepted in the society, and then won some honor and turned around to say that Chinese had bad tastes because they were too Chinese-centric. That is what she did. She is very obnoxious.
She is applying her standards today to those of almost a century ago. Only a fool would think they wouldn't be different.
Campbell was not perfect. No person is. I doubt liberals will want to change any of the places and dates named after MLK after some very disgusting revelations about him.
As Barry Malzberg said, Campbell was a tough man but a fair man.
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Post by Prime etc. on Sept 1, 2019 16:58:20 GMT
I would assume if he was such an evil man they would never have named the award after him in the early 70s OR they thought his artistic works and decisions were separate from his political beliefs. Perhaps they aren't, but for her to slam him as she did indicates a real hostility to indigenous European culture and the idea of self-determination.
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Post by faustus5 on Sept 1, 2019 18:11:19 GMT
Campbell was a racist scumbag and this change was a long time coming. It was the right call.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2019 18:12:35 GMT
I would be agreeing with you guys if we were talking about when the Laura Installs Wilder award was renamed because of her "racial insensitivity". That was wrong for applying the standards of today to the 19th century. This is not the case. Just read his editorials and the dates and references he gave. I'm not sure I've ever agreed with those who seek to rename awards more, IMHO. Well maybe the Michael Jackson award, that one was a dumb idea to begin with, they should have known better. I think the publication he ran for decades who changed the name put it very well myself. theastoundinganalogcompanion.com/2019/08/27/a-statement-from-the-editor/
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Post by Prime etc. on Sept 1, 2019 19:47:09 GMT
She's a hypocrite. She takes the side of the Hong Kong protestors--so she believes in self-determination for Hong Kong yet she attacks a guy who has been dead for 50 years because he also believed in self-determination for his heritage. There's no getting around that--she is saying that Campbell was wrong (before the Hart-Celler Act existed) to favor his own heritage. Yet, she not only thinks the Hong Kong supporters are right-but she also sees herself as an authority on English history. This is Orwellian:
'The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history.'
You can bet she despises him too.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2019 20:51:54 GMT
I would be agreeing with you guys if we were talking about when the Laura Installs Wilder award was renamed because of her "racial insensitivity". That was wrong for applying the standards of today to the 19th century. This is not the case. Just read his editorials and the dates and references he gave. I'm not sure I've ever agreed with those who seek to rename awards more, IMHO. Well maybe the Michael Jackson award, that one was a dumb idea to begin with, they should have known better. I think the publication he ran for decades who changed the name put it very well myself. theastoundinganalogcompanion.com/2019/08/27/a-statement-from-the-editor/Where are these editorials that were so provocative they required changing the name of the award?
That link doesn't provide anything but an opinion and provides nothing to back that opinion up.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2019 20:54:50 GMT
Can you provide any that amazed you?
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Post by Prime etc. on Sept 1, 2019 21:38:59 GMT
The NYT article implied it was changed because of her speech. But still, the point remains, WHY was the award named after him in the first place? 1972 was well after the start of civil rights movement. Why was the award named that in 75? 85? 95?
Obviously it was because back then they didn't think his opinions equaled genocide and or they felt that his literary contributions were more significant and far-reaching than his opinions. But for her to have no context of the history of US demographics and to call him a fascist (if he was-he would have faced much greater scrutiny in the US by the government and others) is so willfully ignorant. It's her beliefs that are so terrible--she believes Han Chinese have a right to self-determination but even when the European readership of sci-fi magazines was majority European, even then he was wrong to favor that heritage he belonged to! It's like if she said Tibetans are assholes because in 1950 they didn't have signage in their monasteries that were in cantonese. That's the kind of asshole point she is making and she did not backtrack from it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2019 22:32:10 GMT
Can you provide any that amazed you? Follow that link. Read the editorial on segregation, I read it all, and that was one that amazed me.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2019 22:33:20 GMT
Can you provide any that amazed you? Follow that link. Read the editorial on segregation, I read it all, and that was one that amazed me. I'm not gonna read all that.
You can't provide any examples?
No one can on twitter, either.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2019 22:55:04 GMT
Can you provide any that amazed you? Follow that link. Read the editorial on segregation, I read it all, and that was one that amazed me. You mean when he says:
'I am strongly in favor of rigidly segregated schools, and I believe that you are, in fact, in agreement with me— that it is absolutely necessary for the continuation of the United States in the terms we know it that our schools be segregated considerably more rigidly than they are today.
'The liberals and do-gooders and those with special advantages to be gained have brought about changes in our schools, in our entire educational system, that is becoming an acute menace to America— and the Supreme Court decision such as the Brown vs. Board of Education case (the basic case in the integration cases in the southern schools during the last decade) was a serious mistake.
'In the above statements, I am not referring to racial segrega- tion, however. I'm referring instead to the overlooked and enor- mously critical problem of segregation by individual student ability.'
That?
I hope you have found more than that.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2019 22:56:42 GMT
Follow that link. Read the editorial on segregation, I read it all, and that was one that amazed me. I'm not gonna read all that.
You can't provide any examples?
No one can on twitter, either.
From Segregation:
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2019 23:16:02 GMT
I'm not gonna read all that.
You can't provide any examples?
No one can on twitter, either.
From Segregation: Yeah, we learned that in Sociology class.
What's the big deal, though?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2019 23:24:21 GMT
Yeah, we learned that in Sociology class.
What's the big deal, though?
Exactly who was giving anyone IQ tests in Africa 5000 years ago to make that claim?
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