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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Jan 24, 2021 22:06:54 GMT
Again you're still being quite vague. What fear/propaganda is being spread? What specific information shouldn't be taken as gospel? What makes you think such information isn't "proven to be solid absolute evidence?" OK, you offer one example with: "Is a CV death really from CV?" That's for medical professional to decide. Dr. Mike did a good video on this subject where he talked about how it's often the case (not just with CV) that a person dies from a multitude of comorbidities and all of them are listed on the death certificate. It is, indeed, a known fact that CV makes people with other health issues more likely to die from those issues, so a heart attack would be MORE deadly for someone with CV; so if someone DOES die from those other things it's very reasonable to list CV as a cause of death. And what reason would healthcare professionals have for spreading misinformation on death certificates? They get no benefit from it. However, even if you think this is inflating the number of "supposed" deaths from CV, there's an alternative way to see how deadly CV has been, and that's by looking at excess deaths. Excess deaths takes into account the average number of deaths from all causes (while excluding some we know would have nothing to do with CV like murders and suicides) and compares them to the deaths from last year. There was a huge, unprecedented spike in excess deaths. So it's also entirely reasonable to attribute those excess deaths to CV, because there was no other variable from last year that could've caused such a spike compared with previous years. Wow... I almost can't believe I'm reading this right now. So, yeah, if we were all completely ignorant about a deadly disease, nobody would know about the deadly disease? Are you for real right now? Have you stepped foot in any of the hospitals that were nearly overrun with CV patients? Talked to anyone who works in the medical profession? Had any family members contract CV? I have, on all accounts, so, yes, I would absolutely know that SOMETHING was going on even if I only got my "news" from friends/family and completely ignored the internet and TV. Plus, a worldwide pandemic hits for the first time in over a century, and you somehow think this is NOT newsworthy? That it shouldn't affect our lives in any way? That we should just live in a little ignorant bubble free from any information that might frighten us? Don't take any precautions at all? I seriously can't imagine where you're coming from here. It's one thing to be against fear-mongering and living in fear, and then it's another thing to be in the midst of the worst pandemic in a century and just shrug as if it were nothing at all. There's a middle, rational ground between those extremes of being alert and taking basic precautions. Now I'd say YOU'RE risking being banned by starting on the whole "CV is just like the flu!" nonsense. Again, shut the fuck up and go look at the excess death statistics. They're easily found for anyone with a basic Google search. CV isn't the fucking flu. The deathrate is many times worse. Yes, people die from all sorts of things everyday, but CV has made this much worse as well. Of course, if you're choosing to live in an information-free bubble, I can understand why you wouldn't realize any of this. Nobody is saying be scared of anything. When you get into a car and put on a seatbelt, are you SCARED of getting into a car crash? Taking safety precautions isn't a sign of fear, it's a sign of common sense. I have no idea what you think it's being used as a "distortion and distraction" from: WHAT "established underpinnings?" I don't trust the government about a lot of things, but I have no reason to distrust them (at least organizations like the CDC and WHO) about this because they have no reason to lie. This economic shutdown is not helping them in anyway, nor is getting their voting constituents killed. I still don't know what specific reference you're making to last century and what that has to do with our current situation. I already addressed this last post, but there's a cost/benefit analysis that needs to be done about lockdowns saving people VS harming the economy. I also know many people who are economically struggling because of the lockdown, so it's not like I don't see the harm that can come from it too; but it's far from immoral to try to prevent people from dying. Most would take economic struggle over death. Again, the virus is still rampant, especially in the US, because people AREN'T following measures. Despite the lockdown there are still people that get together, don't socially distance, and don't wear masks. We saw them all the time at Trump's rallies. I see such people almost every day. If people DID follow such measures then opening up would be a more viable option. They don't, so the debate will continue to persist. Hopefully now that the vaccine is available this will all be a moot point within several months. I understand that some nations have advantages because of location and population, but even when you look at how the US has done per capita compared to similar countries we've been terrible. Again we're back to the MSM "fear-mongering" (how?) and government "riding off its coat-tails for their own glorified limelight;" like WTF does the latter even mean? What politicians are getting glory and fame from CV? It may have been the thing that killed Trump's chances at getting a second term. Sounds like you're hysterical Eva and your projected brown-nosing is nauseating as well. Sad to hear you make misinformed allegations and conclusions based on your unfounded fear and media brainwashing. Considering what you think you do get, you just don't get it.
Typical "I have no rational response so I'll just insult and make baseless claims." You're seriously becoming one of those posters who are a complete waste of time to talk to.
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Post by Admin on Jan 25, 2021 2:31:21 GMT
Goz, you know I love you but don't be ridiculous. The ProBoards policy is against spreading disinformation about how covid is spread, and about what precautions must be taken to prevent acquiring or passing on the virus. Actually, the policy as stated is: "Relying on accurate information is paramount to successfully overcoming this global pandemic. We will not tolerate the propagation of misinformation on our platform which could result in serious consequences for the public at large."support.proboards.com/thread/661355/covid-19-global-health-emergencyIt's the last part that most people seem to overlook: "...which could result in serious consequences for the public at large." That said, Erjen was not banned for posting "lunatic conspiracy theories about mysterious planets and aliens and the Chinese Communists and how or why they may have intentionally infected us." Hello? Is this thing on? Testing, testing, 1, 2, 3... Check, check...
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Post by goz on Jan 25, 2021 2:52:59 GMT
Actually, the policy as stated is: "Relying on accurate information is paramount to successfully overcoming this global pandemic. We will not tolerate the propagation of misinformation on our platform which could result in serious consequences for the public at large."support.proboards.com/thread/661355/covid-19-global-health-emergencyIt's the last part that most people seem to overlook: "...which could result in serious consequences for the public at large." That said, Erjen was not banned for posting "lunatic conspiracy theories about mysterious planets and aliens and the Chinese Communists and how or why they may have intentionally infected us." Hello? Is this thing on? Testing, testing, 1, 2, 3... Check, check... I've read it and it's been discussed ad nauseum on all the ProBoards forums.
Dude, wacko conspiracy theories have nothing to do with the spread of the virus. They're just wacko conspiracy theories and ProBoard is not banning wack conspiracy theories. Wacko conspiracy theories have no serious consequences relating to yours mine or anyone's health.
And this is not about Erjen. It's about too many temp bans and too many permanent bans which have nothing to do with covid.
As I stated before about the numbers being large, how are you NOT understanding that due to the large number of Trumptards on here who repeated Trump's lies and misinformation on Covid, masks, vaccines, cures etc etc etc as TRUTH that they were buying into repeating things that ??
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Post by goz on Jan 25, 2021 3:16:44 GMT
As I stated before about the numbers being large, how are you NOT understanding that due to the large number of Trumptards on here who repeated Trump's lies and misinformation on Covid, masks, vaccines, cures etc etc etc as TRUTH that they were buying into repeating things that ?? Again, this is not really about Erjen or covid. Do you vouch for all the many temporary and permanent bans which killed activity on this forum? I don't know any of them ( with a couple of exceptions ) nor their banning circumcstances. It is not my business. It would seem, however, that the latest 'crop' were Covid related due to ProBoards' explicit policy. You would really have to ask admin and he has already answered you on this, I think. BTW. He doesn't really have to.
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Post by Admin on Jan 25, 2021 3:49:38 GMT
Dude, wacko conspiracy theories have nothing to do with the spread of the virus. They're just wacko conspiracy theories and ProBoard is not banning wacko conspiracy theories. Wacko conspiracy theories have no serious consequences relating to yours mine or anyone's health. They also have no relevance to this discussion. The title of this thread and your opening statement seem to disagree: "Okay, if Erjen was banned I'm a bit pissed off." Nah, it's about too many insult trolls, shitposters, and rule breakers. Well, it used to be anyway. That seems to be your problem now since FB is so wild westy and all.
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Post by goz on Jan 25, 2021 4:38:36 GMT
I don't know any of them ( with a couple of exceptions ) nor their banning circumcstances. It is not my business. It would seem, however, that the latest 'crop' were Covid related due to ProBoards' explicit policy. You would really have to ask admin and he has already answered you on this, I think. BTW. He doesn't really have to.The fuck he don't. Goz, stop acting like a wet doormat. It's about transparency and making sure everyone knows the rules. What's wrong with wet doormats? It is a sign that they are well involved and well used in inclement weather and are very important to the inner cleanliness of interior floors. Why does Admin have to publicly justify his every decision? I thought this was a private entity and not a democracy or co-operative. If you post here you abide by the rules or you get kicked out. It is not rocket surgery! A new rule came in by another private entity which was the same across all boards and it was publicised. Our admin was obliged to enforce it and did so. I don't really see the problem here.
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Jan 25, 2021 4:41:24 GMT
I don't know any of them ( with a couple of exceptions ) nor their banning circumcstances. It is not my business. It would seem, however, that the latest 'crop' were Covid related due to ProBoards' explicit policy. You would really have to ask admin and he has already answered you on this, I think. BTW. He doesn't really have to.The fuck he don't. Goz, stop acting like a wet doormat. It's about transparency and making sure everyone knows the rules.
There is literally a "rules" tab just under the main "IMDB v2.1" banner at the top of the page: IMDB2.freeforums.net/thread/186945/forum-rules The ProBoards position on CV has been known for over half-a-year now and was regularly linked/referenced on here back when it was announced: support.proboards.com/thread/661355/covid-19-global-health-emergencyAnd of course Admin doesn't have to answer any questions about bans, the same reason you don't need a reason to throw anyone out of your home.
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Jan 25, 2021 7:01:10 GMT
Forums like this are loosely part of the press.
No, they aren't. These are message boards/forums. The press are printed publications (newspapers, magazines) and news media.
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Post by Admin on Jan 25, 2021 7:15:04 GMT
Stormfront can ban comments because the respondent is Jewish. That's their right under freedom of the press. But a mainstream forum such as this which operates under an expectation of transparency, clarity, and respect for its members, does not try to conceal the reasons by which speech is allowed and which speech is banned. I suspect this policy of secrecy may be one reason this site has lost so many members and so much activity. Yeah, I think most the members here would expect some transparency in policy. This is not Stormfront. Goz, Miss Thaaang, the doormat is not only wet, someone wiped their muddy boots allover it. Jeebie, Jeebie, Jeebie... I don't respect insult trolls, shitposters, or rule breakers, and I've always been very transparent and clear about that... Here I am on March 1, 2017, less than a month after this forum went live: IMDB2.freeforums.net/post/71327/threadHere I am, just a few weeks later, posting what I believe was the first of many times I used this analogy: Consider this hypothetical scenario: Bob talks Mary into sending him nude photos of herself, then Bob posts them on the board. I immediately remove the photos and ban Bob. If I were to tell you why I banned Bob, I would also be telling you that Mary sent him nude photos. I suppose I could be vague about it, but then you would question the reason for that. It really is none of your business why anyone gets banned if it's not you. And if you were Bob, you would already know, and if you didn't, I wouldn't care. Oh, and look at this one: IMDB2.freeforums.net/post/4210925/threadThat's me having this exact same conversation with you about 4 months ago. That's a lot of transparency for a secret policy.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Jan 25, 2021 14:39:10 GMT
Sorry goz I intended to quote you as well.
Forums like this are loosely part of the press. They have guaranteed rights in the U.S., at least, as part of the press. Now the press can include the New York Times, a respected journal. Or it can include a Neo-Nazi site like Stormfront. So their editorial approaches may differ.
Stormfront can ban comments because the respondent is Jewish. That's their right under freedom of the press. But a mainstream forum such as this which operates under an expectation of transparency, clarity, and respect for its members, does not try to conceal the reasons by which speech is allowed and which speech is banned. I suspect this policy of secrecy may be one reason this site has lost so many members and so much activity.
Yeah, I think most the members here would expect some transparency in policy. This is not Stormfront.
Goz, Miss Thaaang, the doormat is not only wet, someone wiped their muddy boots allover it.
"Forums like this are loosely part of the press" No, they're not. As already pointed news press sites liken CNN and MSN are part of the press. Forums aren't. A place where you can voice your opinion isn't the same thing as the press. Do you also think street corners where any raving loon can start hollering about the end times is part of the press? "They have guaranteed rights in the U.S., at least, as part of the press." That's only in regards to government censorship, that has nothing to do with with how a privately owned organization decides to operate. Also you do realize news companies like CNN has fired reporters before for faulty reporting right? By you reasoning, is it not their "right" to do so? "But a mainstream forum such as this which operates under an expectation of transparency, clarity, and respect for its members" Mainstream forums typically have moderators and TOS otherwise they just devolve into racist, bigoted shit shows like stormfront. That's why their "mainstream", getting rid of them would kinda defeat the purpose.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jan 25, 2021 19:13:54 GMT
Sorry goz I intended to quote you as well.
Forums like this are loosely part of the press. They have guaranteed rights in the U.S., at least, as part of the press. Now the press can include the New York Times, a respected journal. Or it can include a Neo-Nazi site like Stormfront. So their editorial approaches may differ.
Stormfront can ban comments because the respondent is Jewish. That's their right under freedom of the press. But a mainstream forum such as this which operates under an expectation of transparency, clarity, and respect for its members, does not try to conceal the reasons by which speech is allowed and which speech is banned. I suspect this policy of secrecy may be one reason this site has lost so many members and so much activity.
Yeah, I think most the members here would expect some transparency in policy. This is not Stormfront.
Goz, Miss Thaaang, the doormat is not only wet, someone wiped their muddy boots allover it.
"Forums like this are loosely part of the press" No, they're not. As already pointed news press sites liken CNN and MSN are part of the press. Forums aren't. A place where you can voice your opinion isn't the same thing as the press. Do you also think street corners where any raving loon can start hollering about the end times is part of the press? "They have guaranteed rights in the U.S., at least, as part of the press." That's only in regards to government censorship, that has nothing to do with with how a privately owned organization decides to operate. Also you do realize news companies like CNN has fired reporters before for faulty reporting right? By you reasoning, is it not their "right" to do so? "But a mainstream forum such as this which operates under an expectation of transparency, clarity, and respect for its members" Mainstream forums typically have moderators and TOS otherwise they just devolve into racist, bigoted shit shows like stormfront. That's why their "mainstream", getting rid of them would kinda defeat the purpose. To clarify (if this is what everyone has in mind here) the US First Amendment restrains only the government from restricting the press, not the owners of publications, platforms etc who are not obliged to offer their services to whomsoever demands it; but The Supreme Court has interpreted “speech” and “press” broadly as covering not only talking, writing, and printing, but also broadcasting, using the Internet, and other forms of expression.
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Post by wickedkittiesmom on Jan 25, 2021 19:49:15 GMT
He's on another board, he made several posts today.
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Post by OldSamVimes on Jan 26, 2021 11:08:37 GMT
You can't determine what the direct repercussions/consequences of any given statement of misinformation is because you don't know who's reading it and who's taking (or not taking) actions based on it; but it's easy to realize that if you let everyone everywhere go around saying "masks don't work, it's just the government trying to control us!" that SOME people are going to listen to it and not wear a mask and thus increase the spread of the virus, which will inevitably increase deaths from said virus. Plus, privately owned companies have a right to decide how to handle people who spread such misinformation, and ProBoards has decided on banning them. Some days I wonder how people are smart enough to cross the street without getting run over. I've been yammering for years about how people are deeply, fundamentally irrational and are easily misled by biases and thus by rhetoric, lies, myths, woo, etc. We just literally had a large portion of our country believing everything a proven liar and conman said, many enough that they decided to storm the US Capitol based on those lies. We also have a sizable portion of people believing in stuff like a flat-earth, QAnon, Illuminati, lizard people, crisis actors, pizzagate, etc. You think these people are "smart enough to make up their own minds" and get to the truth? C'mon, man. You can call it condescension if you want, but it doesn't take a genius to realize how alarmingly stupid people can be. Of course any private owned company can decide on their protocols, but that isn't the point. Anything could be considered misinformation and misleading, yet it doesn't mean they can determine what any 'alleged' injurious and dangerous repercussions are to the public. Who are we really being protected by, the Nanny State??? Those in the establishment could also be considered to be propagating misleading and misappropriating information? Look at all the s<>t the MSM stirs up, covid hysteria, riots in the streets, and FEAR. How dangerous is that, yet you seem to think it is all in our best interests. To refer to CV is an influenza, when it shares the same genus and part of the same family of corona, is misleading how? What will happen to the world Eva? Julian Assange leaked misleading information which is seen as a threat to national security and he had to go into exile and is now imprisoned. Whose misleading information was it really that he leaked and how dangerous is it that he leaked it? A consequence of bulls<>t more likely. Where CV is concerned, of course that is taboo, that is part of the narrative for distraction. You are provoking Eva and then getting on your soap box about what you consider misinformation. What authority do you have? You are being a brownnosing creep and suck up to the establishment too. How disempowering for you. I could be wrong but I think Eva is an airborne disease specialist.
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Post by goz on Jan 26, 2021 20:52:46 GMT
You can't determine what the direct repercussions/consequences of any given statement of misinformation is because you don't know who's reading it and who's taking (or not taking) actions based on it; but it's easy to realize that if you let everyone everywhere go around saying "masks don't work, it's just the government trying to control us!" that SOME people are going to listen to it and not wear a mask and thus increase the spread of the virus, which will inevitably increase deaths from said virus. Plus, privately owned companies have a right to decide how to handle people who spread such misinformation, and ProBoards has decided on banning them. Some days I wonder how people are smart enough to cross the street without getting run over. I've been yammering for years about how people are deeply, fundamentally irrational and are easily misled by biases and thus by rhetoric, lies, myths, woo, etc. We just literally had a large portion of our country believing everything a proven liar and conman said, many enough that they decided to storm the US Capitol based on those lies. We also have a sizable portion of people believing in stuff like a flat-earth, QAnon, Illuminati, lizard people, crisis actors, pizzagate, etc. You think these people are "smart enough to make up their own minds" and get to the truth? C'mon, man. You can call it condescension if you want, but it doesn't take a genius to realize how alarmingly stupid people can be. Of course any private owned company can decide on their protocols, but that isn't the point. Anything could be considered misinformation and misleading, yet it doesn't mean they can determine what any 'alleged' injurious and dangerous repercussions are to the public. Who are we really being protected by, the Nanny State??? Those in the establishment could also be considered to be propagating misleading and misappropriating information? Look at all the s<>t the MSM stirs up, covid hysteria, riots in the streets, and FEAR. How dangerous is that, yet you seem to think it is all in our best interests. To refer to CV is an influenza, when it shares the same genus and part of the same family of corona, is misleading how? What will happen to the world Eva? Julian Assange leaked misleading information which is seen as a threat to national security and he had to go into exile and is now imprisoned. Whose misleading information was it really that he leaked and how dangerous is it that he leaked it? A consequence of bulls<>t more likely. Where CV is concerned, of course that is taboo, that is part of the narrative for distraction. You are provoking Eva and then getting on your soap box about what you consider misinformation. What authority do you have? You are being a brownnosing creep and suck up to the establishment too. How disempowering for you. The Covid 19 'corona' virus is a 'novel' corona virus that is more virulent and more infectious than the 'flu' and has caused a worldwide pandemic where a rapidly growing death toll ( until the vaccines are successfully rolled out) is 2,149,818 extra deaths to normal death rates from all causes, all in just a year. There is also growing medical evidence that whilst some people ( for reasons unknown ) get a minimal dose, that many people who have moderate to severe disease have long lasting if not permanent damage to some organs as opposed to the 'flu'.
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Post by goz on Jan 26, 2021 21:13:48 GMT
Of course any private owned company can decide on their protocols, but that isn't the point. Anything could be considered misinformation and misleading, yet it doesn't mean they can determine what any 'alleged' injurious and dangerous repercussions are to the public. Who are we really being protected by, the Nanny State??? Those in the establishment could also be considered to be propagating misleading and misappropriating information? Look at all the s<>t the MSM stirs up, covid hysteria, riots in the streets, and FEAR. How dangerous is that, yet you seem to think it is all in our best interests. To refer to CV is an influenza, when it shares the same genus and part of the same family of corona, is misleading how? What will happen to the world Eva? Julian Assange leaked misleading information which is seen as a threat to national security and he had to go into exile and is now imprisoned. Whose misleading information was it really that he leaked and how dangerous is it that he leaked it? A consequence of bulls<>t more likely. Where CV is concerned, of course that is taboo, that is part of the narrative for distraction. You are provoking Eva and then getting on your soap box about what you consider misinformation. What authority do you have? You are being a brownnosing creep and suck up to the establishment too. How disempowering for you. I could be wrong but I think Eva is an airborne disease specialist. Personally I doubt that, though intelligent people have the ability to read and research topics of interest and importance, understand them, and the ramifications, unlike some.
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Post by Prime etc. on Jan 26, 2021 21:28:13 GMT
He's on another board. I know someone taking a trip to China for 2 months to install some theme park stuff. Does anyone really believe that China, with its population density and notorious pollution sanitation issues, could fight an illness that was extremely serious? There is no way on Earth.
So either they haven't fought it and are being ravaged by it (seems unlikely given they had so much travel out of China in January of last year according to CNN's 3 billion trips article), or, it's not as bad as we keep getting told by the Wall Street media. Yeah, Merkel and Johnson and Prince Charles and Tom Hanks all got the virus by April. Supposedly. This is political theater--aimed at the West (like climate change was--aimed at the West while China gets the benefits). Some folk want to boost China at Western expense. That is what it is about. They have people acting like Muslim fanatics wearing a veil on their faces. It's Big Brother-type BS.
Not only is China not being affected, but countries like Greece are letting Chinese tourists visit, but not westerners.
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Post by goz on Jan 26, 2021 21:39:39 GMT
He's on another board. I know someone taking a trip to China for 2 months to install some theme park stuff. Does anyone really believe that China, with its population density and notorious pollution sanitation issues, could fight an illness that was extremely serious? There is no way on Earth. So either they haven't fought it and are being ravaged by it (seems unlikely given they had so much travel out of China in January of last year according to CNN's 3 billion trips article), or, it's not as bad as we keep getting told by the Wall Street media. Yeah, Merkel and Johnson and Prince Charles and Tom Hanks all got the virus by April. Supposedly. This is political theater--aimed at the West (like climate change was--aimed at the West while China gets the benefits). Some folk want to boost China at Western expense. That is what it is about. They have people acting like Muslim fanatics wearing a veil on their faces. It's Big Brother-type BS. Not only is China not being affected, but countries like Greece are letting Chinese tourists visit, but not westerners. What actual points are you attempting to make here?
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Post by Prime etc. on Jan 26, 2021 21:41:49 GMT
What actual points are you attempting to make here? All of them.
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Post by goz on Jan 26, 2021 21:43:45 GMT
What actual points are you attempting to make here? All of them. Can you please be more specific? It is really hard to tell what is an actual point in a badly written generalised China bash! edit: Oh wait! Is it just a generalise Covid denial without any substance?
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Post by Admin on Jan 26, 2021 21:45:24 GMT
Can you please be more specific? It is really hard to tell what is an actual point in a badly written generalised China bash! Goz, stop trying to bait people into getting banned. Thanks.
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