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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 23, 2022 18:11:22 GMT
Also the scene at the end where all the lords pledge their support of Rhaenyra, made me think of what happened in England in during the reign of Henry I when he had no male hair and named his daughter Matilda as his hair, but than her cousin Stephen stole the throne after Henry I died in 1135. And England and Normandy went into a civil war lasting 19 years, I wonder if George R.R Martin used the Anarchy as an inspiration of the Targaryen civil war. The Anarchy had nothing to do with Henry's hair. But it had a lot to do with him not trusting his daughter and his son in law enough to give them actual power over what they were to inherit in Normandy, so that the couple ended up supporting a rebellion against him when he died. So that Stephen King guy, who was much richer and whose brother was Bishop of Winchester (also rich), moved over to England and took the throne faster. The brothers even got someone to testify that Henry had changed his mind about the succession. The Dance Of Dragons is inspired by the Anarchy, but GRRM turned the male heir into the key factor when it was only a side point in the original. Cousin Stephen might have pulled out the same "game of throne" thing if Henry's son had lived instead of getting drunk on a sinking ship.
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Post by Feologild Oakes on Aug 23, 2022 20:10:39 GMT
Also the scene at the end where all the lords pledge their support of Rhaenyra, made me think of what happened in England in during the reign of Henry I when he had no male hair and named his daughter Matilda as his hair, but than her cousin Stephen stole the throne after Henry I died in 1135. And England and Normandy went into a civil war lasting 19 years, I wonder if George R.R Martin used the Anarchy as an inspiration of the Targaryen civil war. The Anarchy had nothing to do with Henry's hair. But it had a lot to do with him not trusting his daughter and his son in law enough to give them actual power over what they were to inherit in Normandy, so that the couple ended up supporting a rebellion against him when he died. So that Stephen King guy, who was much richer and whose brother was Bishop of Winchester (also rich), moved over to England and took the throne faster. The brothers even got someone to testify that Henry had changed his mind about the succession. The Dance Of Dragons is inspired by the Anarchy, but GRRM turned the male heir into the key factor when it was only a side point in the original. Cousin Stephen might have pulled out the same "game of throne" thing if Henry's son had lived instead of getting drunk on a sinking ship. I think this is the first time i have seen a reply from you, where you are not a complete asshole. And the Anarchy did start out as a succession crisis resulting from the death of Henry I's son in 1120.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 24, 2022 13:41:32 GMT
And the Anarchy did start out as a succession crisis resulting from the death of Henry I's son in 1120. It is often presented this way, yes. Because it makes such a good story about how the rule of women was opposed and feeds into modern feminists agendas. But… The succession of Edward the Confessor in 1066 started a crisis. Harold Godwinson was crowned but William of Normandy claimed he had been promised the throne, came, killed and conquered. The succession of William the Conqueror in 1087 started a crisis: The division of William the Conqueror's lands into two parts presented a dilemma for those nobles who held land on both sides of the English Channel. Since the younger William and his brother Robert were natural rivals, these nobles worried that they could not hope to please both of their lords, and thus ran the risk of losing the favour of one ruler or the other, or both. The only solution, as they saw it, was to unite England and Normandy once more under one ruler. The pursuit of this aim led them to revolt against William in favour of Robert in the Rebellion of 1088, under the leadership of the powerful Bishop Odo of Bayeux, who was a half-brother of William the Conqueror. As Robert failed to appear in England to rally his supporters, William won the support of the English with silver and promises of better government, and defeated the rebellion, thus securing his authority.
The succession of William II Rufus in 1100… started a crisis. Henry rode to Winchester, where an argument ensued as to who now had the best claim to the throne. William of Breteuil championed the rights of Robert, who was still abroad, returning from the Crusade, and to whom Henry and the barons had given homage in previous years. Henry argued that, unlike Robert, he had been born to a reigning king and queen, thereby giving him a claim under the right of porphyrogeniture. Tempers flared, but Henry, supported by Henry de Beaumont and Robert of Meulan, held sway and persuaded the barons to follow him. He occupied Winchester Castle and seized the royal treasury. … By early 1101, Henry's new regime was established and functioning, but many of the Anglo-Norman elite still supported his brother Robert, or would be prepared to switch sides if Robert appeared likely to gain power in England. In February, Flambard escaped from the Tower of London and crossed the Channel to Normandy, where he injected fresh direction and energy to Robert's attempts to mobilise an invasion force. By July, Robert had formed an army and a fleet, ready to move against Henry in England. Raising the stakes in the conflict, Henry seized Flambard's lands and, with the support of Anselm, Flambard was removed from his position as bishop. The King held court in April and June, where the nobility renewed their oaths of allegiance to him, but their support still appeared partial and shaky. So yes, when Henry I died in 1135, there was a crisis, a longer one this time, which ís called The Anarchy. Matilda, in spite of being a woman (that thing no one wanted to follow in those times, people say), kept a strong following at least until 1147 when several of her supporters died. Stephen died in 1154 and surprisingly, there was no crisis but only because Henry II (Matilda's son) had invaded the year before and beaten the king into letting him succeed him. We'll call this one a preemptive crisis. Henry was innovative. Before Henry II died in 1189… there was another pre-succession crisis: The relationship between Henry and Richard finally descended into violence shortly before Henry's death. Philip held a peace conference in November 1188, making a public offer of a generous long-term peace settlement with Henry, conceding to his various territorial demands, if Henry would finally marry Richard and Alys and announce Richard as his recognised heir. Henry refused the proposal, whereupon Richard himself spoke up, demanding to be recognised as Henry's successor. Henry remained silent and Richard then publicly changed sides at the conference and gave formal homage to Philip in front of the assembled nobles.
Richard the Lionheart got himself stupidly shot in 1199 and… yes, there was a crisis: After Richard's death on 6 April 1199 there were two potential claimants to the Angevin throne: John, whose claim rested on being the sole surviving son of Henry II, and young Arthur I of Brittany, who held a claim as the son of John's elder brother Geoffrey. Richard appears to have started to recognise John as his heir presumptive in the final years before his death, but the matter was not clear-cut and medieval law gave little guidance as to how the competing claims should be decided. With Norman law favouring John as the only surviving son of Henry II and Angevin law favouring Arthur as the only son of Henry's elder son, the matter rapidly became an open conflict. John was supported by the bulk of the English and Norman nobility and was crowned at Westminster Abbey, backed by his mother, Eleanor. Arthur was supported by the majority of the Breton, Maine and Anjou nobles and received the support of Philip II, who remained committed to breaking up the Angevin territories on the continent. With Arthur's army pressing up the Loire Valley towards Angers and Philip's forces moving down the valley towards Tours, John's continental empire was in danger of being cut in two. But when King John died in 1216, everything went smoothly. No, I'm joking. There was a crisis. The son of King John and Isabella of Angoulême, Henry assumed the throne when he was only nine in the middle of the First Barons' War.
So as we can see, when every succession over 150 years causes a crisis, attributing the one that involved a female heir to sexism is simply disingenuous, no to say outright dishonest or at best ignorant.
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Post by Feologild Oakes on Aug 26, 2022 14:36:42 GMT
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shinnickneth
Junior Member
@shinnickneth
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Post by shinnickneth on Aug 29, 2022 4:22:56 GMT
Great 2nd episode!
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Post by kevin on Aug 29, 2022 12:01:20 GMT
Wow, I was pleasantly surprised by the first episode and I'm even more impressed by the second one. The 2nd episode is almost all intrigue without action so it'll probably get slightly lower ratings from the masses who mainly watched GOT for its fantastic battle sequences (which will no doubt still come later this season). But this episode had writing that we haven't seen in the ASOIAF world since the early seasons of Game of Thrones. Kinda reminded me of the Kissed by Fire episode in its methodical pacing, clever construction of moral conflicts, and excellent dialogue. If this is what we can expect for the rest of the season I'm very excited.
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Post by Morgana on Aug 29, 2022 16:01:29 GMT
It looks like you guys liked it a little more than I did. It was a pretty solid start but a little on the predictable side and for a GoT show, that's not a good sign. But still, I will most likely keep watching just to see how it turns out. Princess Rhaenyra was the standout character from ep1 and perhaps this is a good thing, but the other characters felt a little dry. It looks like character development is going to be the show's biggest issue. That being said, I will still give it a 71 out of 100. Pretty good episode. But it didn't really start getting good until about the last 30 minutes. I agree about the actress that play Princess Rhaenyra being the best thing about episode one, so I was sorry to learn they will do a jump and bring in an older actress to play the part. You are also right about it being a little predictable and the other characters being dry. I've just finished episode 2 and I thought it pretty good.
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Post by Feologild Oakes on Aug 29, 2022 17:04:46 GMT
Second episode was also good.
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Post by stickman38 on Aug 29, 2022 17:24:04 GMT
It looks like you guys liked it a little more than I did. It was a pretty solid start but a little on the predictable side and for a GoT show, that's not a good sign. But still, I will most likely keep watching just to see how it turns out. Princess Rhaenyra was the standout character from ep1 and perhaps this is a good thing, but the other characters felt a little dry. It looks like character development is going to be the show's biggest issue. That being said, I will still give it a 71 out of 100. Pretty good episode. But it didn't really start getting good until about the last 30 minutes. I agree about the actress that play Princess Rhaenyra being the best thing about episode one, so I was sorry to learn they will do a jump and bring in an older actress to play the part. You are also right about it being a little predictable and the other characters being dry. I've just finished episode 2 and I thought it pretty good.
Yep, another solid episode. The people that have read the book (Fire And Blood) are probably really enjoying this. Or maybe not?? lol...
I agree, it was a pretty solid second episode but I have to be honest, the characters are not wowing me yet. Who knows, maybe they will after 3 or 4 episodes, we'll see. And it's going to be interesting to see the reaction from fans when Milly Alcock retires. She is pretty much the star of the show right now.
However, I am starting to like Daemon Targaryen though, in a kinda "hate that guy" way. lol...
His whore wife reminds me of Shae from GoT. lol... kinda talks like her too.
I am still not sure who to pick as a favorite character yet, other than Rhaenyra. After episode 2 of GoT, there were several characters on the show that really stood out.
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Post by Winter_King on Aug 30, 2022 8:48:19 GMT
Wow, I was pleasantly surprised by the first episode and I'm even more impressed by the second one. The 2nd episode is almost all intrigue without action so it'll probably get slightly lower ratings from the masses who mainly watched GOT for its fantastic battle sequences (which will no doubt still come later this season). But this episode had writing that we haven't seen in the ASOIAF world since the early seasons of Game of Thrones. Kinda reminded me of the Kissed by Fire episode in its methodical pacing, clever construction of moral conflicts, and excellent dialogue. If this is what we can expect for the rest of the season I'm very excited. Kissed by Fire is one my favorite episodes of the show.
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Post by Winter_King on Aug 30, 2022 8:50:46 GMT
I agree about the actress that play Princess Rhaenyra being the best thing about episode one, so I was sorry to learn they will do a jump and bring in an older actress to play the part. You are also right about it being a little predictable and the other characters being dry. I've just finished episode 2 and I thought it pretty good. Yep, another solid episode. The people that have read the book (Fire And Blood) are probably really enjoying this. Or maybe not?? lol... I agree, it was a pretty solid second episode but I have to be honest, the characters are not wowing me yet. Who knows, maybe they will after 3 or 4 episodes, we'll see. And it's going to be interesting to see the reaction from fans when Milly Alcock retires. She is pretty much the star of the show right now.
However, I am starting to like Daemon Targaryen though, in a kinda "hate that guy" way. lol...
His whore wife reminds me of Shae from GoT. lol... kinda talks like her too.
I am still not sure who to pick as a favorite character yet, other than Rhaenyra. After episode 2 of GoT, there were several characters on the show that really stood out. I like Viserys but I know he's not going to last long. I liked Daemon and I'm starting to like Corlys.
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Post by Morgana on Aug 30, 2022 14:49:47 GMT
I agree about the actress that play Princess Rhaenyra being the best thing about episode one, so I was sorry to learn they will do a jump and bring in an older actress to play the part. You are also right about it being a little predictable and the other characters being dry. I've just finished episode 2 and I thought it pretty good.
Yep, another solid episode. The people that have read the book (Fire And Blood) are probably really enjoying this. Or maybe not?? lol...
I agree, it was a pretty solid second episode but I have to be honest, the characters are not wowing me yet. Who knows, maybe they will after 3 or 4 episodes, we'll see. And it's going to be interesting to see the reaction from fans when Milly Alcock retires. She is pretty much the star of the show right now.
However, I am starting to like Daemon Targaryen though, in a kinda "hate that guy" way. lol...
His whore wife reminds me of Shae from GoT. lol... kinda talks like her too.
I am still not sure who to pick as a favorite character yet, other than Rhaenyra. After episode 2 of GoT, there were several characters on the show that really stood out.
Other than the actress that plays Rhaenyra I don't think the acting is nearly as good as it was in GoT. I am starting to like Daemon too but I'm half-and-half on the actor - rather his acting ability. Still of course I'm going to continue watching and hope for the best.
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Post by stickman38 on Aug 31, 2022 1:23:54 GMT
Yep, another solid episode. The people that have read the book (Fire And Blood) are probably really enjoying this. Or maybe not?? lol... I agree, it was a pretty solid second episode but I have to be honest, the characters are not wowing me yet. Who knows, maybe they will after 3 or 4 episodes, we'll see. And it's going to be interesting to see the reaction from fans when Milly Alcock retires. She is pretty much the star of the show right now.
However, I am starting to like Daemon Targaryen though, in a kinda "hate that guy" way. lol...
His whore wife reminds me of Shae from GoT. lol... kinda talks like her too.
I am still not sure who to pick as a favorite character yet, other than Rhaenyra. After episode 2 of GoT, there were several characters on the show that really stood out. I like Viserys but I know he's not going to last long. I liked Daemon and I'm starting to like Corlys. Viserys is ok. But not quite up there with the strong leaders we saw in GoT. I mean, even the brutal leaders were still very charismatic. Still got to say the most charismatic one is Rhae so far.
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Post by onethreetwo on Aug 31, 2022 1:29:31 GMT
It feels too contained. Too much in one place and too much of one storyline. And too much bleach blonde hair. GoT felt bigger in scope. A couple shots of crabs isn't opening up this world. This is going to be this show's biggest problem. Feeling too small.
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Post by stickman38 on Aug 31, 2022 1:32:05 GMT
Yep, another solid episode. The people that have read the book (Fire And Blood) are probably really enjoying this. Or maybe not?? lol...
I agree, it was a pretty solid second episode but I have to be honest, the characters are not wowing me yet. Who knows, maybe they will after 3 or 4 episodes, we'll see. And it's going to be interesting to see the reaction from fans when Milly Alcock retires. She is pretty much the star of the show right now.
However, I am starting to like Daemon Targaryen though, in a kinda "hate that guy" way. lol...
His whore wife reminds me of Shae from GoT. lol... kinda talks like her too.
I am still not sure who to pick as a favorite character yet, other than Rhaenyra. After episode 2 of GoT, there were several characters on the show that really stood out.
Other than the actress that plays Rhaenyra I don't think the acting is nearly as good as it was in GoT. I am starting to like Daemon too but I'm half-and-half on the actor - rather his acting ability. Still of course I'm going to continue watching and hope for the best. Apparently the HOTD cast is filled with some top-notch actors. Whether or not that translates into great television remains to be seen. But I wouldn't necessarily say the acting was better in Game of Thrones, it was a great set of characters that made that show work so well. Everyone just fit their role perfectly in GoT. It was some great casting. But yeah, we'll see how this plays out, most seem to agree that it was a pretty solid start for HOTD.
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Post by stickman38 on Aug 31, 2022 1:34:36 GMT
It feels too contained. Too much in one place and too much of one storyline. And too much bleach blonde hair. GoT felt bigger in scope. A couple shots of crabs isn't opening up this world. This is going to be this show's biggest problem. Feeling too small. Those crabs are weird, so instead of white walkers it's the attack of the killer crabs. I'm starting to itch below the belt.... lol
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Troyal1
Sophomore
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Post by Troyal1 on Aug 31, 2022 5:08:58 GMT
Just logging in to see who was still here. It’s awesome to see all you guys. I hope you’re well
Sad to see no Jonsa
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shinnickneth
Junior Member
@shinnickneth
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Post by shinnickneth on Aug 31, 2022 14:51:22 GMT
It feels too contained. Too much in one place and too much of one storyline. And too much bleach blonde hair. GoT felt bigger in scope. A couple shots of crabs isn't opening up this world. This is going to be this show's biggest problem. Feeling too small. Those crabs are weird, so instead of white walkers it's the attack of the killer crabs. I'm starting to itch below the belt.... lol How so? Crabs are meat eaters. They behaved as crabs do... Having said that, I think they're exaggerating Craghas Drahar's actions for the show, but I suppose it's necessary for the reality of the different mediums.
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shinnickneth
Junior Member
@shinnickneth
Posts: 2,514
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Post by shinnickneth on Aug 31, 2022 14:55:56 GMT
Just logging in to see who was still here. It’s awesome to see all you guys. I hope you’re well Sad to see no Jonsa Hey! Nice to see you too. Yeah, I haven't seen Jonsa for awhile. We'll probably see her soon enough. If not, she'll definitely come back once Snow (the Jon Snow spin-off/sequel show) starts. She really liked the Jon/Sansa dynamic. What do you think of House of the Dragon so far?
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Post by stickman38 on Aug 31, 2022 21:24:17 GMT
Those crabs are weird, so instead of white walkers it's the attack of the killer crabs. I'm starting to itch below the belt.... lol How so? Crabs are meat eaters. They behaved as crabs do... Having said that, I think they're exaggerating Craghas Drahar's actions for the show, but I suppose it's necessary for the reality of the different mediums.
They just are. But maybe not as weird as the zombies, ooops, I mean... white walkers.
We'll see how much crab action we get but hopefully it will be kept at a bare minimum.
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