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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2023 7:02:27 GMT
I didn't, but I suppose I could. Seems valid. But I was thinking more along the lines of damning love when it hurts. For example, those who refuse to love again in order to avoid the pain of loss. We praise love when it brings us flowers and balloons, but we curse it when it doesn't. Then is it love what we are really referring too? "Don't pray when it rains if you don't pray when the sun shines."
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Post by paulslaugh on Jan 14, 2023 7:06:23 GMT
Did Jesus himself refer to his teachings as Christianity per se? Messiah was attributed to Jesus in scripture, but reference of Christ was likely a religious off-shoot of this. Does this then make Jesus's teaching's about Christianity? Why would he label himself Christ? Jesus taught The Way, which after his death, morphed into Christianity as the succeeding generations became more aligned with pagan ideas. We can clues from the Book of Acts recount of one of Paul’s trials.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2023 7:18:22 GMT
"Don't pray when it rains if you don't pray when the sun shines." It becomes more about asking for something with conditions attached. Unconditional love doesn't have conditions attached, so if it becomes that, it's something else.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2023 7:24:13 GMT
Jesus taught The Way, which after his death, morphed into Christianity... Then "The Way" is Christianity, which after his death, morphed into something else. Are you sure you aren't confusing Christianity with Catholicism?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2023 7:27:48 GMT
Unconditional love doesn't have conditions attached, so if it becomes that, it's something else. I agree, then what is referred to as love, isn't really love. There can be no facets to love. It is a state of being and still of presence and being. You were referring to unconditional love, but you were responding to my statement that love isn't always flowers and balloons.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2023 7:37:27 GMT
You were referring to unconditional love, but you were responding to my statement that love isn't always flowers and balloons. You were also talking about refusing love due to pain and loss. Is this love? No, it's a wall.
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Post by paulslaugh on Jan 14, 2023 8:58:02 GMT
Jesus taught The Way, which after his death, morphed into Christianity as the succeeding generations became more aligned with pagan ideas. We can clues from the Book of Acts recount of one of Paul’s trials. Then "Christianity" as such, wasn't about Jesus and "the way" but became about religion surrounding this "way". Jesus preached the so-called Way which was getting ready for the earthly messiah prophecies which among other things said at the End Times, the dead righteous Jews, in other words the Jews who had lived their lives according to the 600+ Commandments, would leave the grave to populate the New Earth, now cleansed of the unrighteous. So the Way was a “prepper cult.” Jesus may have thought he was this messiah and his followers certainly did. However, the Sadducees, the mainstream Jewish priests who controlled the Temple rituals and sacrifices, said this messiah and resurrection of the dead was nonsense. And to this day, Jews are split on the afterlife issue. There is no official or specific Jewish teaching on the afterlife. The Heaven and Hell realms, in particular Hell, in Christianity come mostly non-Jewish and pagan sources.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2023 9:51:19 GMT
Then "The Way" is Christianity, which after his death, morphed into something else. Are you sure you aren't confusing Christianity with Catholicism? Yet did Jesus see "The Way" as Christianity? Christ is the elevation of Jesus after the fact. Christianity would have lead the way born out of institutional religion. Semantics. It doesn't matter what you call it or when anyone started calling it that. If "The Way" is what Jesus was all about, then "The Way" is what's being referred to. Saying the teachings of Jesus morphed into Christianity is like saying pancakes morphed into flapjacks.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2023 10:18:41 GMT
Semantics. It doesn't matter what you call it or when anyone started calling it that. If "The Way" is what Jesus was all about, then "The Way" is what's being referred to. Saying the teachings of Jesus morphed into Christianity is like saying pancakes morphed into flapjacks. I didn't think you argued semantics. I am asking is "The Way" Christianity as Jesus saw it?
I said it doesn't matter what you call it, and you think I'm arguing semantics? I guess I don't understand the question because I thought I just answered it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2023 10:52:04 GMT
I said it doesn't matter what you call it, and you think I'm arguing semantics? I guess I don't understand the question because I thought I just answered it. Yet my point is, it does matter, because Christianity is the question in point. Was "The Way" as Jesus supposedly taught it, morphed into Christianity via institutionalization? I don't know, that is what I am asking. If it was, for one to claim they are Christian, would then this also give out the implication they are religious too?
Is not the notion of Christianity, to believe in Jesus, (or Christ as Christianity can refer to him with their own semantics), as savior for humanities sins. Belief in this acceptance leads into everlasting eternity with God. This brings up many kinds of other questions, or flaws.
If one is to act in the way Jesus proposed, yet leaves the heavenly father God aspect out of it, one can't be a Christian, because Christianity is founded on religious interpretation of "The Way".
If this doesn't answer your question, then I don't understand the question: Then "The Way" is Christianity, which after his death, morphed into something else.I suspect that "something else" is Catholicism, which is why I asked Paul if he was sure he wasn't confusing the two. He does that a lot.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2023 11:50:34 GMT
His way can't be Christianity, if this "term" was devised by a cult following of Jesus after his death. That would be those semantics we were just talking about. If that’s all there is to it, what’s all this crap about religion?
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Post by clusium on Jan 14, 2023 15:52:51 GMT
You could ask the same question about the Buddha & Buddhism, Toasted Cheese . While yes, he called himself " Enlightened," (it was in answer to those who asked him if he was a god or something, after his first public sermon, preaching against desire), did he necessarily intend to start a break-away religion from Hinduism, do you think? Well, that is the thing, how does anyone really know? We can only go by written doctrine, which is questionable at best, and historical research. Buddha is a term for an enlightened being in the east. I am asking about the attribution of the term Christ. Jesus would be comparable to a Buddha. Christ seems like a religious term after the fact for glorification. Glorification could be considered ego. I highly doubt Jesus was about ego. Christ Is Greek for 'Messiah.' It means 'Anointed One.' Our Lord Jesus Was Anointed by St. John in the wilderness, when St. John Baptized Him (the Father and the Spirit Revealed Him at His Baptism).
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Post by paulslaugh on Jan 14, 2023 18:03:24 GMT
Then "The Way" is Christianity, which after his death, morphed into something else. Are you sure you aren't confusing Christianity with Catholicism? Yet did Jesus see "The Way" as Christianity? Christ is the elevation of Jesus after the fact. Christianity would have lead the way born out of institutional religion. Highly doubtful he thought he was starting a new religion since he was preparing only Jews for the Jewish end times. Unless a gentile converted to Judaism, they didn’t qualify for resurrection anyway. Keep in mind, this prophecy was not sanctioned by the Temple priesthood nor did any of the popular rabbis at the time support it. Like the Essenes, the Way seems to be a renegade cult.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2023 0:00:46 GMT
That would be those semantics we were just talking about. If that’s all there is to it, what’s all this crap about religion? Because religion endorses it.
Did Jesus see himself as this Christ figure?
OJ Simpson endorsed Hertz, and Bill Cosby endorsed Coke. That doesn't mean Hertz killed anyone or that Coke date-raped anyone. The question here is.... Did Jesus endorse religion?
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Post by paulslaugh on Jan 15, 2023 0:15:01 GMT
Because religion endorses it.
Did Jesus see himself as this Christ figure?
OJ Simpson endorsed Hertz, and Bill Cosby endorsed Coke. That doesn't mean Hertz killed anyone or that Coke date-raped anyone. The question here is.... Did Jesus endorse religion? His own, many times.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2023 0:48:00 GMT
Christ Is Greek for 'Messiah.' It means 'Anointed One.' Our Lord Jesus Was Anointed by St. John in the wilderness, when St. John Baptized Him (the Father and the Spirit Revealed Him at His Baptism). So Christianity, after the fact of Jesus, derived its name from Greek. This was the beginning of institutionalized following to glorify the name of Jesus, as seen as a chosen one. Operative words highlighted.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2023 1:16:42 GMT
OJ Simpson endorsed Hertz, and Bill Cosby endorsed Coke. That doesn't mean Hertz killed anyone or that Coke date-raped anyone. The question here is.... Did Jesus endorse religion?Endorsing God, whatever he/she/it, is, and accepting Christ as the savior, is at the core of Christianity. The teachings come secondary, which one could say is about learning to live without sin. Even in scripture, Jesus mentions sin. All sin is, is inappropriate behavior, some could be considered more extreme than others. Did Jesus really believe he was dying for one's sins and that no-one would come to the heavenly father except through him, or was this the "cult" of Christianity, eventually morphed into various followings known as religion, that promulgated this? Jesus endorsed a faith as scripture tells us. Faith is also semantics, because this ties in with religion as known today. Only he who accepts Christ as savior is ideally Christian and Christianity isn't what Jesus taught at the time. Back to the op question, (if Christianity were proven to be true would one follow it?), one would still have to prove God, which is at the heart of Christianity and how is this possible? Correct: Jesus said no one comes to the father but through Him. Not a priest, not the Pope, not Jim Jones or Marshall Applewhite.
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Post by clusium on Jan 15, 2023 1:39:14 GMT
Christ Is Greek for 'Messiah.' It means 'Anointed One.' Our Lord Jesus Was Anointed by St. John in the wilderness, when St. John Baptized Him (the Father and the Spirit Revealed Him at His Baptism). So Christianity, after the fact of Jesus, derived its name from Greek. This was the beginning of institutionalized following to glorify the name of Jesus, as seen as a chosen one. Correct. But, what is wrong with that? No, it all began with the Sermon on the Mount. Our Lord Jesus Accumulated a huge following, in the 3 years of His Public Ministry.
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Post by paulslaugh on Jan 15, 2023 2:21:26 GMT
So Christianity, after the fact of Jesus, derived its name from Greek. This was the beginning of institutionalized following to glorify the name of Jesus, as seen as a chosen one. Correct. But, what is wrong with that? No, it all began with the Sermon on the Mount. Our Lord Jesus Accumulated a huge following, in the 3 years of His Public Ministry. Only in Galilee. He was barely known in Jerusalem.
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Post by clusium on Jan 15, 2023 2:22:31 GMT
Correct. But, what is wrong with that? No, it all began with the Sermon on the Mount. Our Lord Jesus Accumulated a huge following, in the 3 years of His Public Ministry. Only in Galilee. He was barely known in Jerusalem. No, He was Known in both places.
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