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Post by charzhino on Dec 1, 2017 14:04:48 GMT
And im done with this Disney takeover crap. They probably will buyout Fox and take their properties next year.
i just hope that Deadpool 2, New Mutants and Dark Phoenix are enjoyable for Foxs X-Men to end as they started - on a high.
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Post by miike80 on Dec 1, 2017 14:08:04 GMT
X-Men: Homecoming No, wait.... Beat me to it ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png)
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Post by formersamhmd on Dec 1, 2017 14:14:24 GMT
Firstly, DofP was an adaptation of the comic story, it doesn't need to follow it letter for letter. You complaining that they changed the time travel character is the same as saying Tony Stark didnt originally create Ultron. Its meaningless because neither AoU or DofP is a exact copy of their source material. AOU had an excuse, Edgar Wright wouldn't let them use Hank Pym until his movie was done. But he wasted his time so Marvel had to use someone else. So they took the lazy way out. And he sucked at it. It's just good luck that young Xavier is so impressionable that he can get over 10 years of booze and drugs in one single scene.
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Post by charzhino on Dec 1, 2017 14:26:24 GMT
AOU had an excuse, Edgar Wright wouldn't let them use Hank Pym until his movie was done. But he wasted his time so Marvel had to use someone else. Lame excuse. It was clear they chose Tony because it best fits his character as the obsessive, unhinged, brilliant-mad scientist persona to create an ultimate defensive AI system which backfires. It fit perfectly for the film just like Wolverine being the time traveller due to his non-aging powers and healing. But the point is, no film ever has been 100% faithful to major comic storylines like Age of Ultron/DOFP. Fixed. After speaking to his older self which doesn't happen every day. You know like Thor having the Odin vision to give him the inspiration to overcome the odds. Except the DOFP scene was better executed on every level and actually felt genuine.
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Post by formersamhmd on Dec 1, 2017 14:40:05 GMT
It was clear they chose Tony because it best fits his character as the obsessive, unhinged, brilliant-mad scientist persona to create an ultimate defensive AI system which backfires. It fit perfectly for the film just like Wolverine being the time traveller due to his non-aging powers and healing. But the point is, no film ever has been 100% faithful to major comic storylines like Age of Ultron/DOFP. You may think it's lame, but at least AOU HAD an excuse, DOFP's only reasoning was "Well, he's one of the only ones we bothered giving any character to. Use him." Nice and lazy. Thor wasn't a 10 year addict of booze and drugs, so it made more sense. Plus they gave that "inner strength" cliche a twist by having it STILL not be enough so he had to find another way to stop Hela. Whereas DOFP just gave into the cliche, and they couldn't even be bothered by having Xavier be weak in the end due to with withdrawal (which would've made it more believable).
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Post by charzhino on Dec 1, 2017 15:17:37 GMT
You may think it's lame, but at least AOU HAD an excuse, DOFP's only reasoning was "Well, he's one of the only ones we bothered giving any character to. Use him." Nice and lazy. Straying from the original accusation by harspoke that Fox should have used Kitty as the timetraveller like in the comics. They did give Kitty good character development as a minor X-man in X3. Even if they used her well from X1 as Ellen Page alongside Wolverine, it STILL would make better narrative sense to use Logan because of his original arc established with Xavier in X1 where he was a lost, feral student looking for guidance. Role reversal means in DOFP Logan now has the use the teachings of Old Xavier to help young Xavier to find himself just as old xavier helped young logan back in X1. Its called consistency in the MAIN characters. Honestly people like you and harspoke come up with the most nitpickiest fake complaints. Even the people who didn't like dofp Ive not heard them complain that wolverine is again the star of the show. He does go through withdrawal symptoms earlier on. When Xavier cant use cerbero and after Eric shoots Raven in Paris, Xavier says it was all a mistake and Hank goes to get him his shot because hes losing it. Only After he meets his older self he has the belief and confidence he dont need drugs which they showed earlier how reliant he is. And all this wouldnt be covered by Disney, they swapped Starks alcoholism for PTSD which he got over pretty quickly too. And the subversion of Thors inner power cliche has already been done in Xmen Apocalypse. In the final fight, the Xmen are doing everything combined to stop Apocalypse in the rubble area. Moira says "they cant stop him" helplessly. But then in a revelatory scene (like thor discovering his hidden ability that he forgot) Xavier discovers that hes still connected and at first, confidently takes on Apocalypse in the astral plane convinced he can stop him (like Thor taking on Hela on rainbow bridge). But as you say that STILL isnt enough and Xavier gets ragdolled by Apocalypse. Then Xavier takes the action of releasing phoneix onto Apocalypse in the same manner as Thor releases Surtur. Same script except Xmen did it first.
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Post by formersamhmd on Dec 1, 2017 16:54:39 GMT
Straying from the original accusation by harspoke that Fox should have used Kitty as the timetraveller like in the comics. Frankly, I think they should have used Hank. They just didn't think any other character would be bankable except Logan. At least we saw Tony dealing with the PTSD and doing something recommended to fight it (focus on something else). Xavier had NO signs of withdrawal after his chat with his future self. Nope, they played it straight with Jean going Phoenix. She's a protagonist so it counts as "Release Inner Power".
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Post by charzhino on Dec 1, 2017 17:44:53 GMT
Nope, they played it straight with Jean going Phoenix. She's a protagonist so it counts as "Release Inner Power". Phoenix and Surtur are both deus ex machinas and irrelevant. Thor found his inner strength and failed. Xavier found his inner strength and failed. Xmen did it first.
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Post by formersamhmd on Dec 1, 2017 18:57:02 GMT
Nope, they played it straight with Jean going Phoenix. She's a protagonist so it counts as "Release Inner Power". Phoenix and Surtur are both deus ex machinas and irrelevant. Nope, Phoenix is their fallback failsafe weapon that the comics are also guilty of abusing.
Thor realizing that the only way to survive is to allow Asgard to be destroyed is something new, something X-Men would never have the balls to do.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2017 23:07:18 GMT
The Formulaic X-Men
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Post by Lord Death Man on Dec 1, 2017 23:14:31 GMT
You can't fight the future, Dennis. Wear the helmet. Be like us! Be justified. Hee hee hee...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2017 7:36:36 GMT
DofP should have called: X-men Retcon.
It wasnt a good movie. Not like First Class.
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Post by harpospoke on Dec 2, 2017 15:21:14 GMT
Because the whole story is his adventure into the past to save everyone. Not according to the people who made the film. Btw, do you think Charles Xavier was the lead in Wolverine and The X-Men? After all he was the time traveler in that version of DOFP. No because it's not about who was the time traveler. It's about Fox switching it to Wolverine so they could make him the focus of the story again. It could have been any number of other members of the X-men, but it just happened to be Wolverine....what a shock. By all means ignore your eyes and pretend it's about someone else. Funny how Logan is so involved "other characters' stories". Ok now I get it....you work at Fox. Somehow the greatest females characters in Marvel's history going back several decades now are less important than their new pet "Wolverine". By all means let's pretend she is a bigger deal than Storm, Rogue, Jean, and Kitty. And again... 8 movies and those other characters still got outpaced by a character in ONE movie. That's how much Fox has focused on Logan all these years. Of course giving Logan 3 solo films kinda settles this whole thing, doesn't it? Let me guess...."He is the only one big enough to warrant a solo film". No kidding....that's because Fox didn't develop any of the other characters. ...And they cast Halle Berry instead of a real actress for Storm. And they can't do Rogue right. And they can't get Jean right. And they ignore Kitty. That's just the female X-men. They even ignore Gambit....who is also uber popular with fans. You are comparing comics sales in the 21st century to previous decades? ("one of the highest selling"....what a vague claim) You must be joking. Yes Cap and Thor were not on the same level as Wolverine in popularity. Neither was Iron Man. Marvel took those characters and made them bigger than Logan for the general audience. Marvel has pretty much lapped Fox in creating awareness for little known characters.
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Post by harpospoke on Dec 2, 2017 15:30:19 GMT
Because the whole story is his adventure into the past to save everyone. Fox has the rights to the real character from the comics that went back in time but of course they changed it to Logan. Big shock to exactly no one. Of course they would make it about a Logan adventure. Fake complaint. Firstly, DofP was an adaptation of the comic story, it doesn't need to follow it letter for letter. You complaining that they changed the time travel character is the same as saying Tony Stark didnt originally create Ultron. Its meaningless because neither AoU or DofP is a exact copy of their source material. Secondly, Wolverine (playd by H Jackman) is the most market able and recognised character from this filmverse - to not give him any pivotal role would be stupid as you're suggesting to give it to Shadow Cat/kitty. You would make a terrible screen writer. And thirdly, we got to see Wolverine in a completely different role to any other film. In dofp he was the peace maker and had to win the day by talking, not slashing. He shows a much more serene and calmer approach which is vital when trying to convince Xavier to help them change the future. And now looking back after watching Logan and also X1, the bond between Logan and Xavier fits perfectly and consistently throughout the Xverse. But no, lets throw in Kitty to do this because comic die hards will love it even though it makes zero narrative sense!!111. What a silly idea. Nice try but...no. Did I say anything about "stay true to the comics"? Nope. Did I say anything about "It should be kitty?" Nope. As you said, they sometimes change things. That's fine. I'm on board with that. But guess what character FOX decided to change it to? Logan. What a shock. Didn't see that coming. I already know Logan is the only character Fox has developed enough to to be recognizable by the public so you aren't breaking any news here. 9 X-men movies and they've managed to make the rest of the X-men into background supporting characters. Notice they didn't do the first Wolverine movie until they did 3 Wolverine and Friends movies first? They had plenty of opportunities to make more than one character viable. Other movies make several characters popular with just ONE movie. Star Wars wasn't "Han Solo and Friends". If Fox was doing that today, that's what we would get. Just the fact that you think developing another character is "terrible screen writing" says it all.
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Post by ThatGuy on Dec 2, 2017 16:58:23 GMT
Firstly, DofP was an adaptation of the comic story, it doesn't need to follow it letter for letter. You complaining that they changed the time travel character is the same as saying Tony Stark didnt originally create Ultron. Its meaningless because neither AoU or DofP is a exact copy of their source material. AOU had an excuse, Edgar Wright wouldn't let them use Hank Pym until his movie was done. But he wasted his time so Marvel had to use someone else. So they took the lazy way out. And he sucked at it. It's just good luck that young Xavier is so impressionable that he can get over 10 years of booze and drugs in one single scene. I kinda remember it said here that Wolverine wasn't the main character of the movie. If he wasn't then it wouldn't matter if he wasn't used to go back in time. They still could have used him for marketing in the dark future. He did have a big role in that side of the story in the comics.
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Post by Agent of Chaos on Dec 2, 2017 23:11:44 GMT
No because it's not about who was the time traveler. It's about Fox switching it to Wolverine so they could make him the focus of the story again. It could have been any number of other members of the X-men, but it just happened to be Wolverine....what a shock. I love how you ignored the fact that Wolverine isn’t the focus of the film as proven by film makers and screentime. Hey, you’re the one that is ignoring the statements of filmmakers. New? Laura has been around since 2004. And it doesn’t matter how long they have been around. They never reached the level of popular as X-23. Everytime they put out a solo for characters that weren’t mini-series for characters not named Wolverine, Deadpool, Cable, and X-23 etc it would be canceled not long afterwards. They couldn’t hold a series on their own while Laura could. So yes, she is a far bigger deal. The same applies with Wolverine. Characters like Angel, Beast, and Iceman have been around long before he was even created. Yet Wolverine is a far bigger deal than those guys. And what exactly is your point? Doesn’t matter how many movies exist. According to inflation the top ten highest grossing films of all are Gone with the Wind, Avatar, the first Star War, Titanic, The Sound of Music, E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial, The Ten Commandments, Doctor Zhivago, Jaws, and Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs. None of which are sequels. There is no link behind the number of films and Box Office. In fact, taking in inflation into account Spider-Man: Homecoming made less money than any of the Sami Raimi films and made around the same amount as ASM1. There is a thing called franchise fatigue. Once again you prove that you nothing about the history of Marvel comics. The X-Men are not a crossover team like the Avengers and Justice League. The members of the team didn’t have solo series before they formed the X-Men. That is like saying a Fantastic Four movie should have had solo films beforehand. Check your facts. Halle Berry is an Oscar winning actress and a Gambit movie is currently being made. That movie has been in development since 2009. Where have you been? 🤣 Speaking of the Gambit movie, most X-Men fans fans don’t want one. Not even hardcore Gambit fans. And again, Jean was a garbage character before the Phoenix. The movie version is an actual improvement. Now you’re changing your argument now that your previous one fell apart.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Dec 2, 2017 23:22:09 GMT
X-Men: Magneto Returns to the Nazis.
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Post by formersamhmd on Dec 2, 2017 23:24:11 GMT
It's ironic you say stuff like "You can't take a minor character and give them the movie!" or "These characters couldn't hold a book!" when the MCU gives us movies about guys like Ant-Man who is both (relatively) minor and couldn't hold a book...and guess what? His movie was a success!
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Post by Agent of Chaos on Dec 2, 2017 23:35:08 GMT
It's ironic you say stuff like "You can't take a minor character and give them the movie!" or "These characters couldn't hold a book!" when the MCU gives us movies about guys like Ant-Man who is both (relatively) minor and couldn't hold a book...and guess what? His movie was a success! I never said that. harpospoke was bitching about an A-lister like Laura having more screentime than B-list characters like Quicksilver.
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Post by formersamhmd on Dec 2, 2017 23:43:24 GMT
It's ironic you say stuff like "You can't take a minor character and give them the movie!" or "These characters couldn't hold a book!" when the MCU gives us movies about guys like Ant-Man who is both (relatively) minor and couldn't hold a book...and guess what? His movie was a success! I never said that. harpospoke was bitching about an A-lister like Laura having more screentime than B-list characters like Quicksilver. But I'm just saying that the MCU was willing to take D-Listers and turn them into A-Listers and it paid off. So what was keeping FOX from trying the by taking a lesser character and making them the time traveller in DOFP?
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