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Post by harpospoke on Dec 4, 2017 19:40:35 GMT
And you ignore that the story is about Wolverine traveling to the past to save everyone. "Film makers" can say anything...it doesn't change the movie. So when James Cameron said that Sarah Conner was the protagonist of T1 and not the Terminator who went back in time to change the future(like Wolverine), he was wrong? Lol There is also the Wolverine and The X-Men example I gave earlier which you ignored. And using marketing? Seriously? That’s not even by the people who made the movie. The marketing team and creative team are separate entities. Are you even familiar with the term “false-advertisment”? The marketing for DOFO also focused on the sentinel future but the movie spend the vast majority of its time in the past. So you can’t use that marketing as a valid point, especially for DOFP. 1-Filmmakers often complain that the audience doesn't see their work the same way they do. Same with musicians. If they want to claim DoFP is about Prof X they are free to do that. Meanwhile the audience knows we are watching yet another Wolverine story. 2-Cameron's opinion doesn't prove all opinions are correct. That's a logical fallacy. Yes the marketing knew the story was about Wolverine going back in time to save everyone. It shocked exactly no one when Fox decided to put Logan in the lead role over all the other X-men characters. Google the cast and of course Jackman comes up first: www.google.com/search?newwindow=1&safe=off&ei=OZglWoe_OciZjwSCqquACQ&q=days+of+future+past+cast&oq=days+of+future+past&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.35i39k1l2j0i67k1j0i20i264k1j0i67k1j0i131k1j0j0i67k1j0l2.4119.5628.0.9265.4.4.0.0.0.0.80.305.4.4.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.4.302...0i131i67k1.0.KuugIScPVDcJackson of course listed first on IMBD cast list: www.imdb.com/title/tt1877832/And which name is first in the post credits? Oh yeah...that would be Jackman of course. You can check...it comes right after the scene about Wolverine being rescued. Which of course follows the long scene of Logan walking around the X-mansion in awe of his mission being successful. Or maybe you might want to skip all that stuff at the end since it might ruin your fantasy that DoFP is really about Charles. Wouldn't do to have the entire end of the movie focus on a "supporting character". Again comparing today's numbers with those from the 80s. They actually got more readers in the 80s than she is getting now. Her numbers today would get her canceled in the 80s too. But you are talking about them doing their SJW thing with all the titles. They just changed the Wolverine thing to a female like they did with Iron Man and Thor. That doesn't mean those female characters are popular either. They only exist due to the SJW agenda. If she was really a popular character they wouldn't need to piggy back her onto the Logan title.... her title would have continued. I realize all that...and yet they kept bringing her back with clones and such. Pretty odd for a character you claim was not popular. That's not shocking. Fans hate most of the things current Marvel is writing. That I get and agree with. But again it doesn't mean the other X-men were pushed into the background as supporting players for the Logan drama like in the Fox films. And again, that doesn't mean Storm and Cyclops became minor characters. To clarify, I get making Wolverine a more prominent character. That's a far different thing than making him the main character by a mile and ignoring almost all the other X-men. So we should get one of the most popular X-men of all time in a major role in Fox movies about 19 years after they started. Yay Fox? What a coincidence...right after Jackman retires they finally get interested in bringing Gambit into the mix. And let's check that cast list real quick.... Channing Tatum. Oh of course. More Fox stunt casting. Let me guess who the lead character will be in the next Fox X-movie. (with any luck that will never happen) Go ahead....quote where I said that. I'll wait. Nice straw man attempt. I pointed out her epic fail as Storm. Nice stunt casting Fox. And yet Jean Grey happens to be one of the most well known X-men characters of all time who just happens to be the subject of their greatest story line. They couldn't even keep her dead. They keep finding ways to bring her back. X-23 will never approach that status in comic book history. Everyone has a failure. (Marvel not quite yet but it's inevitable) WB has had huge hits with Batman, Superman, Suicide Squad, and Wonder Woman. Fox has one of the biggest comic book properties of all time and can't make them resonate with the public. They are easily the least successful of the four. The point is that Fox is the only one of the big four who have yet to have a movie break above 250m domestic. Ryan Reynolds made them one that got over that threshold. ...Not surprising in the least that the one movie they had the least to do with was the most successful by a mile. Semantics to avoid the point. Fox failed with one of the great story lines just like they failed with Dark Phoenix. This defense of the Fux fail is fascinating to watch in action. Fox is the source of some of the most epic failures in CBM history and yet you desperately try to make the case that they are doing a good job. Cloud Galactus Barakapool Fan4Stick Oh yeah...Fox is awesome.
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Post by harpospoke on Dec 4, 2017 19:43:00 GMT
A list? I don't think you know what that means. It means that the public knows about the character. X-23 is certainly not a bigger deal than Rogue, Nightcrawler, Colossus, and Ice Man. Uh, no it doesn’t. A-list means refers popularity. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-listX-23 is so popular that she appeared in Marvel vs Capcom 3. While Rogue, Nightcrawler, Colossus, and Ice Man were absent from the game. Ice Man is so lame that Marvel made him a homosexual in an attempt to make him relevant. A video game? That why you think the pubic knows that X-23 exists? Someone else made that claim about Cyborg recently. Gamers certainly have an inflated sense of how important games are.
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Post by harpospoke on Dec 4, 2017 19:44:02 GMT
Is harspoke still complaining that Wolverine was used as the time traveller in DOFP? The 4th lead in the film. Wow what nitpickery. Interesting how the "4th lead" in the film is always listed FIRST.
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Post by charzhino on Dec 4, 2017 20:13:23 GMT
Is harspoke still complaining that Wolverine was used as the time traveller in DOFP? The 4th lead in the film. Wow what nitpickery. Interesting how the "4th lead" in the film is always listed FIRST. Because hes the most bankable star. So not only would you make a lousy screen writer, you would fall short of the PR marketing strategy too.
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Post by harpospoke on Dec 4, 2017 20:34:37 GMT
Interesting how the "4th lead" in the film is always listed FIRST. Because hes the most bankable star. So not only would you make a lousy screen writer, you would fall short of the PR marketing strategy too. He's the most bankable star because Fox made the whole franchise about him and his angst. Which is of course why DoFP is about Logan's adventure. You need to get with Google and let them know their synopsis is wrong. Tell them it's really about Charles.
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Post by formersamhmd on Dec 4, 2017 20:46:09 GMT
Interesting how the "4th lead" in the film is always listed FIRST. Because hes the most bankable star. So Fox has no balls.
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Post by miike80 on Dec 4, 2017 20:55:52 GMT
Because hes the most bankable star. So Fox has no balls. Yeah, because no way will Robert Downey have first bill in a team-up movie
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Dec 4, 2017 20:56:59 GMT
You forgot to add- X-Men: Homecoming
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Post by Agent of Chaos on Dec 4, 2017 21:46:57 GMT
1- Except the only people that think of Wolverine as the focus are guys butthurt that he replaced Kitty as the time traveler. And most of the audience aren’t comic readers. 2- It’s not an opinion but a fact. The Terminator in the first film is the antagonist not the protagonist. I love how you keep dodging the Wolverine and The X-Men point too. 3- That is the same exact case with the Terminator in the first film. He’s on the poster and gets top billing. But sure as hell isn’t the protagonist. Just look at the screentime. Xavier <31> Wolverine <28:15> So Xavier is by definition the main character. This is like arguing Cable is the main character of Deadpool 2. And Wolverine’s mission was an utter failure. Watch Logan. Can you prove that X-Factor was making those numbers? Oh they were planning on killing Wolverine long before that. I remember hearing about it back in 2012. Laura is actually the only suitable replacement. I’m talking about before the Phoenix. The clone Maddie is a long story. Just look that up. You can say that about Cyclops but Storm was far from a minor character in X2 and X3. Her and Nightcrawler saved the world in X2. She’s also becomes the leader of the X-Men in X3. You haven’t read the recent comics, have you? Gambit is not a really popular character anymore. Jean Grey was only brought back the first time because editors wanted the X-Factor roster to be the original five X-Men. Then they killed her in 2001 and brought her back like a month ago. So Jean has been dead for nearly two decades. If she was so popular why did they take her out of the books for so long? Do you think they would ever do that with X-23? And do you know why they were initially successful? Because of Chris Nolan’s Batman trilogy. They were leeching off its legacy. But audiences realizing that these are not Nolan films is the reason why Justice League is just a bomb. Actually, they have broken 250m domestic. Are familiar with the term “inflation”? And Incredible Hulk was a Box Office Bomb. Your point about X-Men:Apocalypse is completely moot since it was never based on that storyline. So just man-up admit you were wrong. All in which were better than Iron Fist and Inhumans.
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Post by formersamhmd on Dec 4, 2017 21:54:39 GMT
Yeah, because no way will Robert Downey have first bill in a team-up movie He didn't in Civil War.
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Post by Agent of Chaos on Dec 4, 2017 21:56:18 GMT
Because hes the most bankable star. So not only would you make a lousy screen writer, you would fall short of the PR marketing strategy too. He's the most bankable star because Fox made the whole franchise about him and his angst. Which is of course why DoFP is about Logan's adventure. You need to get with Google and let them know their synopsis is wrong. Tell them it's really about Charles. Where did you read that because? Because the X-Men weren’t formed in the 70s. Clearly not written by someone who saw the movie. So yeah, that synopsis is kinda wrong. lol
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Post by charzhino on Dec 4, 2017 22:21:29 GMT
Which is of course why DoFP is about Logan's adventure. Just plain wrong. Logan doesn't have an arc in the film. Hes simply an observer, a messenger. Xavier, Magneto, Mistique all go through identifiable changes in character traits. Thats the definition of a leading role , not just having your name on first on a casting credit.
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Post by formersamhmd on Dec 4, 2017 23:27:35 GMT
Which is of course why DoFP is about Logan's adventure. Just plain wrong. Logan doesn't have an arc in the film. Hes simply an observer, a messenger. Xavier, Magneto, Mistique all go through identifiable changes in character traits. Thats the definition of a leading role , not just having your name on first on a casting credit. Then they should've tried pushing the envelope by using someone else as the traveler.
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Post by charzhino on Dec 4, 2017 23:33:23 GMT
Just plain wrong. Logan doesn't have an arc in the film. Hes simply an observer, a messenger. Xavier, Magneto, Mistique all go through identifiable changes in character traits. Thats the definition of a leading role , not just having your name on first on a casting credit. Then they should've tried pushing the envelope by using someone else as the traveler. Theres no reason to waste Wolverine. This isn't a vanity project, its a business. You use your big name stars for the doller you pay them.
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Post by formersamhmd on Dec 4, 2017 23:59:23 GMT
Then they should've tried pushing the envelope by using someone else as the traveler. Theres no reason to waste Wolverine. This isn't a vanity project, its a business. You use your big name stars for the doller you pay them. That line of thinking, most of the MCU wouldn't exist because no one would want to make movies about any Marvel Hero who wasn't an A-Lister.
Sometimes pushing the envelope WORKS.
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Post by miike80 on Dec 5, 2017 5:29:37 GMT
Yeah, because no way will Robert Downey have first bill in a team-up movie He didn't in Civil War. Well the movie was called Captain America so... It's not like if Deadpool 3 is called Deadpool vs Wolverine Hugh Jackman will get first billing
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Post by harpospoke on Dec 5, 2017 19:44:07 GMT
1- Except the only people that think of Wolverine as the focus are guys butthurt that he replaced Kitty as the time traveler. And most of the audience aren’t comic readers. 2- It’s not an opinion but a fact. The Terminator in the first film is the antagonist not the protagonist. I love how you keep dodging the Wolverine and The X-Men point too. 3- That is the same exact case with the Terminator in the first film. He’s on the poster and gets top billing. But sure as hell isn’t the protagonist. Just look at the screentime. Xavier <31> Wolverine <28:15> So Xavier is by definition the main character. This is like arguing Cable is the main character of Deadpool 2. And Wolverine’s mission was an utter failure. Watch Logan. 1-No one is butthurt. We just notice that Fox has made Wolverine and Friends movies instead of X-men movies. Still want to talk about "screen time" on that one or are you going to suddenly lose interest in that "definition"? 2-Doesn't matter what it is. You are claiming because one thing is true, that makes every other thing true. That's a logical fallacy. No....Charles is by definition the character with 2 minutes 45 seconds more screen time due to two actors needing screentime. That's not the same definition as "main character". You are claiming those two things are the same. A good portion of the Charles "screen time" is in the future when the narrative is about Logan and their struggle to help him survive. You need to go hit up Google and the rest of the world describing the movie as Logan's adventure. I see you already pointed out one of the writers is desperately trying to convince everyone it's about Charles instead. When you've got to work that hard to convince everyone, it means the movie didn't do it. 1-You need proof that comics sold dramatically more copies in the 80s than in the 2000s and 2010s? You actually don't know that? 2-You picked out one series for a reason I'm thinking. Naturally you don't want to include the top selling comic of all time (X-men). Maybe you want to have a look here: www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2017/2017-10.htmlI see X-men Gold at #11 featuring: Colossus Kitty Pryde Nightcrawler Logan Prestige Storm I see X-men Blue at #15 featuring: Jean Grey Cyclops Beast Angel Ice Man Storm I see All New Wolverine at #23 featuring: Logan Laura Gee...not really a "solo" book is it? Looks like they had to bring back Logan to help sales. Look who does have a solo book at #60? Jean Grey. And look who has a solo book at #67....Iceman. I don't have to look it up, I've read it. The Jean character was so popular they couldn't let her stay dead. She's back again today of course. You mean the X3 where Logan got 22:45 of screen time while Storm got 10:30? Or X2 where Logan got 28 and Storm got 10:30? Or is "screen time" not something you are interested in suddenly? I've got news for you, no one is a popular comic character any more. Breaking 100,000 issues a month puts you at the top of the list now. I see you aren't counting all the clones and alternate time line stuff where they get her into various stories. Nice try. They've already given up on X-23. Looks like Logan is back to help sales. Which is just you trying to avoid that X-23 passed some of the most iconic X-men characters with just one appearance. That's how pathetic Fox has been with this property. I see you want to pretend WB didn't have huge hits with Superman and Batman decades before the Nolan movies. Yes...and I'm also familiar with the fact that Sony, WB, and Marvel broke that barrier without needing any adjustment to get them there. Fox has put out 6 X-men movies since 2008 and have lagged behind the other studios. You can't "adjust" anything to make Fox anything but last place. 1-You don't know what a bomb is. It made money. Just not very much. 2-And like I said, they all have failures. It happens to everyone. 3-Fox is still in last place. Nice diversion. Anything to avoid discussion the long list of epic fails by Fox. 1-No one said anything about them being better or worse than those two things. Another diversion attempt. 2-No. Those are epic fails in their own category of fail. They will be the butt of jokes for a 100 years or more.
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Post by harpospoke on Dec 5, 2017 19:48:34 GMT
He's the most bankable star because Fox made the whole franchise about him and his angst. Which is of course why DoFP is about Logan's adventure. You need to get with Google and let them know their synopsis is wrong. Tell them it's really about Charles. Where did you read that because? Because the X-Men weren’t formed in the 70s. Clearly not written by someone who saw the movie. So yeah, that synopsis is kinda wrong. lol Like I said, you need to convince the world that you are right and they are wrong. Google it yourself so you can get to work correcting the world. www.google.com/search?q=x-men+days+of+future+past&oq=x-men+days+of+future+past&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i61l3j0l2.8312j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8It doesn't say anything about the 70s so you are reaching for something. It describes the plot of the movie. Of course it's about Logan.
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Post by Agent of Chaos on Dec 8, 2017 22:58:25 GMT
1-No one is butthurt. We just notice that Fox has made Wolverine and Friends movies instead of X-men movies. Still want to talk about "screen time" on that one or are you going to suddenly lose interest in that "definition"? 2-Doesn't matter what it is. You are claiming because one thing is true, that makes every other thing true. That's a logical fallacy. No....Charles is by definition the character with 2 minutes 45 seconds more screen time due to two actors needing screentime. That's not the same definition as "main character". You are claiming those two things are the same. A good portion of the Charles "screen time" is in the future when the narrative is about Logan and their struggle to help him survive. You need to go hit up Google and the rest of the world describing the movie as Logan's adventure. I see you already pointed out one of the writers is desperately trying to convince everyone it's about Charles instead. When you've got to work that hard to convince everyone, it means the movie didn't do it. I love how you dodged the Cable in Deadpool 2 point. 1-So you just assumed X-Factor sold many copy. lol 2-I picked X-Factor because you said Jean was wildly popular in the 80s. Jean was a main character in that book in the 80s. You’re talking about X-Men #1 when came out in the 90s. Of course they brought Wolverine back have her in a book with...after Logan.😏 Alternate version of Jean Grey. Gay Iceman. Yeah, she is so popular that they brought her back 16 years later when she is about to be a lead in a movie soon. 🤣 Don’t you know how Marvel comics works? Missing the point. Which is that she had an important role. I didn’t count them because they weren’t Jean. This is like saying Gwen Stacy is very popular because she has been cloned so many times. You’re confusing importance with popularity. Didn’t I just say they were piggybacking on the Nolan films? Missing the point. And most of the MCU films that made over 250m was because of inflation. Look at the movie’s budget and its box office. It’s a bomb alright. Refuting your point isn’t a diversion. And no one said anything about those films you mentioned.
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Post by Agent of Chaos on Dec 8, 2017 23:01:07 GMT
My point is there are no X-Men present in the movie. It’s just a marketing tool.
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