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Post by formersamhmd on Feb 12, 2018 16:53:46 GMT
Didn't they talk about Jane in Avengers? Didn't Thor mention that Odin used his own energy to send Thor to Midgard to bring back Loki? That's why he didn't come by the Rainbow Bridge. He just appeared. awesome, forgot about that! That's an excellent textbook example of ex machina writing creating a plot hole.
How, exactly, is that an Ex Machina Plot Hole? They explained how he got to Earth with the Bifrost Bridge destroyed.
This isn't like BvS not explaining what happened to Doomsdays' body after the battle.
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Post by formersamhmd on Feb 12, 2018 16:54:33 GMT
In a very disrespectful way considering what Jane meant to Thor (supposedly). uh, these people just do not get the point. That the Jane/Thor thing is overblown? Branagh himself said it was less romantic and more a matter of respect between two beings. |
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Feb 12, 2018 17:09:08 GMT
 awesome, forgot about that! That's an excellent textbook example of ex machina writing creating a plot hole.
How, exactly, is that an Ex Machina Plot Hole? They explained how he got to Earth with the Bifrost Bridge destroyed.
This isn't like BvS not explaining what happened to Doomsdays' body after the battle.
you evidently do not understand what the terms mean sam. deus ex machina is when you write a superlazy "a wizard did it" solutions to story problems, lol in our case it actually a real god (deus) doing magic just like in Greek theater. A plot hole is a logical inconsistency.
This dialogue makes matters worse: If Odin can do some teleportation magic without the bifrost this renders the entire sweet ending of Thor absurd and pointless as this was about Thor not being able to visit Jane anymore because of the destroyed rainbowbridge and them star-crossed lovers looking sadly and longingly into the stars *sigh*. But noooo, Odin can now do magic anytime; so no big problem.
This also creates the plot inconsitency as to why Thor never went to visit his only love Jane after the bifrost was destroyed if he could with Odin's help, did he not care enough? Bad writing totally destroying that beautiful sad ending of Thor 1 - and the sweet bliss of having them lovers reunite again in part 2, which turned out an slap in your face embarrassment because of the botched Avengers stuff.
Monkeys on typewriters really.
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Post by ThatGuy on Feb 12, 2018 17:17:58 GMT
Didn't they talk about Jane in Avengers? Didn't Thor mention that Odin used his own energy to send Thor to Midgard to bring back Loki? That's why he didn't come by the Rainbow Bridge. He just appeared. awesome, forgot about that! That's an excellent textbook example of ex machina writing creating a plot hole. Adds insult to injury to the Thor&Jane romance treatment. Thanks dude. 
Actually, that leads into Thor 2 where Odin is out of energy and falls into a coma. Which then leads into Thor 3 where Odin is dying. |
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Feb 12, 2018 17:18:23 GMT
uh, these people just do not get the point. That the Jane/Thor thing is overblown? Branagh himself said it was less romantic and more a matter of respect between two beings. nope sam, as we see you get the uneven-storytelling-handling point, but just try to deflect. It's irrelevent btw what Branagh says or not, important is that the romance was the central emotional theme of the first movie motivating Thor's and Jane's character arcs.
Eh, could you provide a source for what Branagh allegedly claims (or rather you claim) Im pretty sure he would never sabotage his own film like this? Sound more like you than Branagh...
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Post by ThatGuy on Feb 12, 2018 17:29:50 GMT
Didn't they say that Thor and Jane broke up? I remember they mention this in the beginning of the movie. It's not like they just left it out there on why she isn't there. He even had a sad look on his face. In a very disrespectful way considering what Jane meant to Thor (supposedly). Having a love interest doesn't mean that they are meant to always be together. She was just a woman that he had feelings for and it didn't work out. That's something all these movies need to get away from. Having a Lois Lane love interest for that character. |
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Post by ThatGuy on Feb 12, 2018 17:33:26 GMT
That the Jane/Thor thing is overblown? Branagh himself said it was less romantic and more a matter of respect between two beings. nope sam, as we see you get the uneven-storytelling-handling point, but just try to deflect. It's irrelevent btw what Branagh says or not, important is that the romance was the central emotional theme of the first movie motivating Thor's and Jane's character arcs.
Eh, could you provide a source for what Branagh allegedly claims (or rather you claim) Im pretty sure he would never sabotage his own film like this? Sound more like you than Branagh...
How did it motivate their character arcs? Thor got in touch with the little people by becoming one of them and learning from them. Jane's whole story was science and lusting after the handsome alien. The point of Thor was that he had too much arrogance. |
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Post by ThatGuy on Feb 12, 2018 17:36:39 GMT
Didn't they say that Thor and Jane broke up? I remember they mention this in the beginning of the movie. It's not like they just left it out there on why she isn't there. He even had a sad look on his face. Yes, but apparently we need a 30 minute breakup sequence to spoonfeed the audience. I find that most of their complaints is like that. The characters mention something, but it's not enough and we need the entire movie about that. Racism in Winter Soldier, but we need Fury to go on about that as a character arc... |
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Feb 12, 2018 17:51:34 GMT
nope sam, as we see you get the uneven-storytelling-handling point, but just try to deflect. It's irrelevent btw what Branagh says or not, important is that the romance was the central emotional theme of the first movie motivating Thor's and Jane's character arcs.
Eh, could you provide a source for what Branagh allegedly claims (or rather you claim) Im pretty sure he would never sabotage his own film like this? Sound more like you than Branagh...
How did it motivate their character arcs? Thor got in touch with the little people by becoming one of them and learning from them. Jane's whole story was science and lusting after the handsome alien. his arc is turning from a self obesessed reckless jerk into a responible leader through his humbling encounter with the "little people" and his love for a mortal. This foremost causes his change. He literally is reborn a new man through his ultimate sacrifice of his life for those he loves (redemption through love trope). Jane arc is flat but she changes too because of her encounter with Thor. Anyway, the whole romance thing is crucal for the movie and literally at the heart of it. |
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Post by charzhino on Feb 12, 2018 17:54:52 GMT
Yes, but apparently we need a 30 minute breakup sequence to spoonfeed the audience. I find that most of their complaints is like that. The characters mention something, but it's not enough and we need the entire movie about that. Racism in Winter Soldier, but we need Fury to go on about that as a character arc... The complaint is MCU dont truley explore their dramatic themes, they pussy out of them- probably because they dont want to lose the attention spans of their target audience. |
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Feb 12, 2018 18:00:07 GMT
Yes, but apparently we need a 30 minute breakup sequence to spoonfeed the audience. I find that most of their complaints is like that. The characters mention something, but it's not enough and we need the entire movie about that. Racism in Winter Soldier, but we need Fury to go on about that as a character arc... Wait, what were the racial/racist aspects of Winter Soldier? I just saw it for the first time and didn't get any subtext like that at all. |
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Post by charzhino on Feb 12, 2018 18:01:12 GMT
How did it motivate their character arcs? Thor got in touch with the little people by becoming one of them and learning from them. Jane's whole story was science and lusting after the handsome alien. his arc is turning from a self obesessed reckless jerk into a responible leader through his humbling encounter with the "little people" and his love for a mortal. This foremost causes his change. He literally is reborn a new man through his ultimate sacrifice of his life for those he loves (redemption through love trope). Jane arc is flat but she changes too because of her encounter with Thor. Anyway, the whole romance thing is crucal for the movie and literally at the heart of it. And then in Thor 2 he brings her to Asgard, a very serious intent for commitment as Odin doesnt approve and wants Thor to marry Sif. But Thor believes she is different and his mum welcomes her into their grand hierarchy as leaders of the seven realms. Frigga also dies protecting Jane and Thor is willing to risk an infinity stone falling into evil hands to save Jane. A lot at stake here- part of the reason I like Thor 2. But guess what happens in Ragnarok, a silly high school-esque joke is made out of their break up by 2 random strangers who then ask Thor for a selfie and the whole first 2 movies are essentially forgotten. But it made the audience chuckle for that couple of moment's right? RIGHT!?? |
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Post by summers8 on Feb 12, 2018 18:14:19 GMT
Yes, but apparently we need a 30 minute breakup sequence to spoonfeed the audience. I find that most of their complaints is like that. The characters mention something, but it's not enough and we need the entire movie about that. Racism in Winter Soldier, but we need Fury to go on about that as a character arc... You do need to hear more. its where you get the depth, realism and yes maturity. mcu movies keep it derivative due to the formulaic nature. its one reason david finch once said correctly MCU movies have poor story telling. I think this was mickey rourke problem with iron man 2 too. mcu movies will be taken more seriously if they do evaluate the problem deeply than substitute meaningless cgi action moment to make up for it. one sharp difference between avengers 2012 and tdkr or The Winter Solider 2014 and DOFP in 2014. All the times, tony and steve were punching eachother as the plot got thinner and weaker. they could have had an intelletcual conversation like this. this is how you do depth in a movie. its simple really. Stop settling and defending mediocrity story telling with the mcu movies. the genre is suffering already for it. |
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Feb 12, 2018 18:15:38 GMT
his arc is turning from a self obesessed reckless jerk into a responible leader through his humbling encounter with the "little people" and his love for a mortal. This foremost causes his change. He literally is reborn a new man through his ultimate sacrifice of his life for those he loves (redemption through love trope). Jane arc is flat but she changes too because of her encounter with Thor. Anyway, the whole romance thing is crucal for the movie and literally at the heart of it. And then in Thor 2 he brings her to Asgard, a very serious intent for commitment as Odin doesnt approve and wants Thor to marry Sif. But Thor believes she is different and his mum welcomes her into their grand hierarchy as leaders of the seven realms. Frigga also dies protecting Jane and Thor is willing to risk an infinity stone falling into evil hands to save Jane. A lot at stake here- part of the reason I like Thor 2. But guess what happens in Ragnarok, a silly high school-esque joke is made out of their break up by 2 random strangers who then ask Thor for a selfie and the whole first 2 movies are essentially forgotten. But it made the audience chuckle for that couple of moment's right? RIGHT!?? yup, that seems to be the line of thinking. The core themes and motivators established for characters are suddenly abandoned (with joke explanantions) or are contradicting because of the SU approach - it's spelled out per MCU movie in detail in a post above.
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Post by summers8 on Feb 12, 2018 18:16:47 GMT
I find that most of their complaints is like that. The characters mention something, but it's not enough and we need the entire movie about that. Racism in Winter Soldier, but we need Fury to go on about that as a character arc... Wait, what were the racial/racist aspects of Winter Soldier? I just saw it for the first time and didn't get any subtext like that at all. none, it was a joke as usual with the mcu movies and just touched upon. you are all criticising mcu for what they are proud of. making basic movies as they have said. good for them, bad for long time comic readers. |
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Post by charzhino on Feb 12, 2018 18:22:27 GMT
Exactly summers8, Charles never fought Magneto once physically yet their rivalry feels more tangible than Starks & Caps no matter how many punches they throw at each other because their intellectual disagreements have little substance.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Feb 12, 2018 18:23:16 GMT
Wait, what were the racial/racist aspects of Winter Soldier? I just saw it for the first time and didn't get any subtext like that at all. none, it was a joke as usual with the mcu movies and just touched upon. you are all criticising mcu for what they are proud of. making basic movies as they have said. good for them, bad for long time comic readers. When was it "touched upon"? I prolly missed it altogether. |
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Post by charzhino on Feb 12, 2018 18:24:04 GMT
I find that most of their complaints is like that. The characters mention something, but it's not enough and we need the entire movie about that. Racism in Winter Soldier, but we need Fury to go on about that as a character arc... Wait, what were the racial/racist aspects of Winter Soldier? I just saw it for the first time and didn't get any subtext like that at all. When fury is driving and sees the "cops" looking at him suspiciously before they ambush him on the road. |
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Post by summers8 on Feb 12, 2018 18:26:46 GMT
I find that most of their complaints is like that. The characters mention something, but it's not enough and we need the entire movie about that. Racism in Winter Soldier, but we need Fury to go on about that as a character arc... The complaint is MCU dont truley explore their dramatic themes, they pussy out of them- probably because they dont want to lose the attention spans of their target audience. Because they don't. this is fact. we are not haters for saying fact. the serious themes of alcohol abuse in iron man 3 was banned. BANNED. look at the proof here .
www.comicsbeat.com/disney-rejects-tony-stark-alcoholism-storyline-from-iron-man-3/
Disney rejects Tony Stark alcoholism storyline from Iron Man 3
But this (DOFP) made it into a pg 13 xmen movie with serious high accliam not for fun and fuuny like thor 3. Xavier lays his shit down and we see the full extent of his depression and substance abuse. This is what we see in marvel comics, mcu movies is disney bs, see why mcu xmen is bound to fail? its destiny. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Feb 12, 2018 18:27:34 GMT
you evidently do not understand what the terms mean sam. deus ex machina is when you write a superlazy "a wizard did it" solutions to story problems, lol in our case it actually a real god (deus) doing magic just like in Greek theater. Like in WW, with the powers she pulled out of nowhere at the end? He can't just do it willy nilly. It took a lot of his powers to send Thor and bring him back. Dark World explained this. |
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