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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 11, 2018 18:54:03 GMT
It's impossible to take this article seriously. It's a giant, rambling strawman argument. It would be easy to do the same for "the Right". I'd merely need to find objectionable things done by or beliefs of select right-wingers and say that they are true of everyone on the Right. I could say the Right advocates killing abortion doctors, supports turning the US into a theocracy, idolizes the Nazis, believes in segregation, and wants to strip women of the right to vote. I could claim they too are destroying civilization as we know it. And I'd think somebody on the Right would say to me (perhaps in not so polite terms): "That's not true of everybody on the Right. We don't all believe the same things." And they'd be correct. Get my point? Of some of the examples listed in the article, 1. The left DID infect much of college education with an obsession with race, class, and gender. 2. The left DID degrade much of the arts. 3. The left DID (and does) attack free speech on the college campuses. In contrast, to look at some of your examples, 1. The right DID NOT turn the U.S. into a theocracy. 2. The right DID NOT bring back segregation or overturn civil rights victories. 3. The right DID NOT strip women of the right to vote. 4. The right DID NOT bring an idolization of Nazism into the culture. That is your opinion as far as art and culture is concerned. And even if you agree with him, the fact remains that he is taking select instances and applying them broadly to everyone on the Left. The rest of your response is irrelevant because I only stated desired goals; not whether they had yet achieved them. It was a hypothetical, in any case. As an aside, I think all people consider their own political opinions nuanced; that they are individuals and not part of some monolithic hive mind. It bugs me that some of those people do not give others the same consideration. That part of the whole is the same as the whole. Tell me, do you agree with everything done by or believed by a group you're considered a part of?
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 11, 2018 19:17:59 GMT
I was talking about Kylo in TFA, he was fighting Rey with a handicap. And plus, he barely had any real experience fighting someone else with a lightsaber, he hadn't fought one since he ran from Uncle Luke. So now you're moving goalposts! LOL! We were talking about Luke and Rey on Achto. Oh, well there it was no different from how Yoda could've tossed Luke around like a ragdoll if he felt like it but he didn't. Only difference was Luke didn't get physical on Yoda.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 11, 2018 20:02:24 GMT
So now you're moving goalposts! LOL! We were talking about Luke and Rey on Achto. Oh, well there it was no different from how Yoda could've tossed Luke around like a ragdoll if he felt like it but he didn't. Only difference was Luke didn't get physical on Yoda. ...Which has nothing to do with what we were talking about. Moving goalposts yet again. You are a pathetic Disney troll.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 11, 2018 20:03:53 GMT
Oh, well there it was no different from how Yoda could've tossed Luke around like a ragdoll if he felt like it but he didn't. Only difference was Luke didn't get physical on Yoda. ...Which has nothing to do with what we were talking about. You're pissed Luke didn't beat the crap out of Rey, how it made him weak. I'm using Yoda as a counter.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 11, 2018 20:10:11 GMT
...Which has nothing to do with what we were talking about. You're pissed Luke didn't beat the crap out of Rey, how it made him weak. I'm using Yoda as a counter. Which has no logical bearing or comparison to what we were talking about.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 11, 2018 20:26:59 GMT
You're pissed Luke didn't beat the crap out of Rey, how it made him weak. I'm using Yoda as a counter. Which has no logical bearing or comparison to what we were talking about. You say Luke was weak for not beating the crap out of Rey.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 11, 2018 20:36:49 GMT
Which has no logical bearing or comparison to what we were talking about. You say Luke was weak for not beating the crap out of Rey. Luke and Yoda never fought each other or competed in using the Force. Like I said, your comparison is moving goalposts. It doesn't address what we were talking about.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 11, 2018 20:39:05 GMT
You say Luke was weak for not beating the crap out of Rey. Luke and Yoda never fought each other or competed in using the Force. Like I said, your comparison is moving goalposts. It doesn't address what we were talking about. Doesn't change that Yoda could have manhandled Luke, and Luke showed greater power than Rey did in the end of TLJ. But I suppose Rey had to get killed by Kylo Ren to prove that.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 11, 2018 18:54:03 GMT
I was talking about Kylo in TFA, he was fighting Rey with a handicap. And plus, he barely had any real experience fighting someone else with a lightsaber, he hadn't fought one since he ran from Uncle Luke. So now you're moving goalposts! LOL! We were talking about Luke and Rey on Achto. Where he just didn't care about fighting back, when the ending showed he clearly could have if he'd wanted to? Same as how Yoda could easily have tossed Luke around in ESB but acted like a scared little creature? Only difference being that Luke never bothered getting physical on Yoda in ESB.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 11, 2018 21:04:03 GMT
Luke and Yoda never fought each other or competed in using the Force. Like I said, your comparison is moving goalposts. It doesn't address what we were talking about. Doesn't change that Yoda could have manhandled Luke, and Luke showed greater power than Rey did in the end of TLJ. But I suppose Rey had to get killed by Kylo Ren to prove that. Nope. Disagree... and there was no reason for Yoda to man handle Luke. That's the thing about OT SW. They don't create fake reasons to put all the spotlight on one character while defaming another. But TLJ purposely wrote that scene to show Rey is better than Luke in a duel. Same thing with Rey shooting the cannons on the Millennium Falcon for the first time, and then shoots down 3 TIE fighters with one shot. Then she tells Chewbacca how to fly who has at least 30 years experience flying it. You just don't need to do that to show Rey has talent at it. It's a statement saying Rey can do everything far better than anyone else the first time she does it. And that's what a MarySue character is.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 11, 2018 21:32:45 GMT
Doesn't change that Yoda could have manhandled Luke, and Luke showed greater power than Rey did in the end of TLJ. But I suppose Rey had to get killed by Kylo Ren to prove that. Nope. Disagree... and there was no reason for Yoda to man handle Luke. That's the thing about OT SW. They don't create fake reasons to put all the spotlight on one character while defaming another. No, they just made sure their lead remained second-rate compared to everyone else. And retroactively they did defame Obi-Wan in ANH from how strong he was in ROTS. No, just to show she was angry with him instead of always fangirling around him. Like how Luke could fly an X-Wing and shoot down Tie Fighters with the flimsy explanation that some desert vehicle teaches you how to fire torpedoes and lasers? If she can't fight in any battles, how DOES she show she can fire a gun?
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 11, 2018 23:11:02 GMT
Nope. Disagree... and there was no reason for Yoda to man handle Luke. That's the thing about OT SW. They don't create fake reasons to put all the spotlight on one character while defaming another. No, they just made sure their lead remained second-rate compared to everyone else. And retroactively they did defame Obi-Wan in ANH from how strong he was in ROTS. No they didn't. Fact. You don't need to attack someone to express you're angry or upset. It was purposely done because they wanted Luke to look inferior to her. No other Lightside character has ever attacked their master with violence. It was deliberate to give her the MarySue spotlight. It's not a vehicle you idiot! The T-14 Skyhopper is an flying ship that's used to train for flying X-wings and TIE fighters. It wasn't Luke's land speeder. There was a scene where in ANH where Luke was holding a scale model of it. It's also mentioned in 2 or 3 separate lines of dialogue in ANH. Like I said, you don't know crap about SW. So stop talking like you do. You're SW idiot who shoots his mouth off... She should've had a background where she fought battles, actually flew ships, or at least had training in them.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 11, 2018 23:28:17 GMT
No, they just made sure their lead remained second-rate compared to everyone else. And retroactively they did defame Obi-Wan in ANH from how strong he was in ROTS. No they didn't. Fact. Compare how powerful Obi-Wan was in ROTS to how pathetic he was in ANH. The power drop is massive. And no, don't say "he was older". Or because they wanted to show she wasn't some goody-two shoes. Of course, the sheer unpleasable nature of OT fans shined through again. And that's supposed to mean he can fight equally against trained pilots and be able to shoot them down in dogfights? Another no-win scenario. You'd just say it was proof she was a Mary Sue that she DID have that background!
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 11, 2018 23:54:38 GMT
Compare how powerful Obi-Wan was in ROTS to how pathetic he was in ANH. The power drop is massive. And no, don't say "he was older". He was older. Fact. No. It was to show she can beat Luke. It happens to be the only time in TLJ where Rey doesn't act like little Ms. Goody 2 Shoes. That's not a coincidence. You do know that pilots who have received fighter training can actually navigate a dogfight, right? You do know that Luke worked in tandem with more experienced pilots in those dogfights, right? (As opposed to Rey where it was just herself against multiple ships). You do know that Luke also got shot up and shot down in those dogfights, right? (As opposed to Rey who has gone untouched in dogfights). Keep talking and showing how stupid you are about SW. No... I wouldn't. That makes absolutely no sense for you to claim that I would. I just you in so many words told you that I wouldn't. So lie away about it like you usually do.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 12, 2018 0:21:36 GMT
Compare how powerful Obi-Wan was in ROTS to how pathetic he was in ANH. The power drop is massive. And no, don't say "he was older". He was older. Fact. He was only supposed to be in his early 50s. Younger than Mace Windu was. Age is no excuse. The ending disproved that. Anyways, Luke had turned off his Force Powers at that point anyways. And somehow Luke can work perfectly with those people despite not having any training to do so, right? Against DARTH VADER. Not normal pilots. You complained about her desert scavenger lifestyle being an excuse for why she wasn't some bumbler, by that logic you'd hate any explanations for why she could fly a ship too.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 12, 2018 1:14:45 GMT
He was only supposed to be in his early 50s. Younger than Mace Windu was. Age is no excuse. The ending disproved that. Anyways, Luke had turned off his Force Powers at that point anyways. Nope. You're still wrong. And Luke used the Force powerfully right before Rey beat him up. Plus he used it levitate inches off the ground when he fell down. Go back and watch those scenes again. You will see that I'm right. Wrong. Do yourself a favor. Take a week off and go watch all the episodic films several times over. Then maybe... and I emphasize maybe... you might begin to know what you're talking about. Luke did get shot by normal pilots in ANH. (Go back and watch ANH again). Luke got shot down and crashed in TESB. So... yeah, the facts show Luke was no MarySue pilot while Rey clearly is. You can't argue facts. Where did I say that? I never said that or implied that she should be a bumbler.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Apr 12, 2018 1:20:37 GMT
Damn this thread really escalated quickly.
8 pages of basically all of us repeating the same thing over and over again.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 12, 2018 1:22:09 GMT
Nope. You're still wrong. Hell, Count Dooku was WAY older than Obi-Wan, so age is most certainly no excuse! Bare minimum powers, he wasn't looking for a fight. And seeing how it was HIM and not Rey doing the Astral Projection stuff at the end, the power levels are clear. And shrugged them off until Vader showed up and shot R2. And then got right out and destroyed an At-At all on his own. Rey certainly hasn't done that. Plus she hasn't been in as many spacefights as Luke so saying she should've had all that happen to her in 1 movie is unfair. I brought up the Desert Warrior lifestyle, you shot it down and said it was fanfic. So you can't accept any reasoning for why she's not a bumbler.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 12, 2018 2:01:15 GMT
Nope. You're still wrong. Hell, Count Dooku was WAY older than Obi-Wan, so age is most certainly no excuse! Bare minimum powers, he wasn't looking for a fight. And seeing how it was HIM and not Rey doing the Astral Projection stuff at the end, the power levels are clear Nope. Ripping apart the building Reylo were in with the Force is not bare minimum. . Shrugged them off? LOL He got shot and needed to be rescued by other pilots. Realistic. Not that MarySue crap that Rey does who has absolutely no training or experience. All he did was use that bungee gun to zip up and cut open the walker. Then toss a grenade in. Rey did something similar in the opening of TFA when she zipped down from some insane height inside of one of the graveyard ships. You keep being wrong because you don't know SW. Besides, stop moving goalposts. This is about Luke being a realistic star pilot and Rey being a MarySue one.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 12, 2018 3:13:58 GMT
Hell, Count Dooku was WAY older than Obi-Wan, so age is most certainly no excuse! Bare minimum powers, he wasn't looking for a fight. And seeing how it was HIM and not Rey doing the Astral Projection stuff at the end, the power levels are clear Nope. Ripping apart the building Reylo were in with the Force is not bare minimum. It is compared to Astra Projecting across the Galaxy. Yes, he survived when barely any other Rebel pilots did. Rebel Pilots far more veteran than him. So being able to barely fly the Falcon through an area she knew better than anyone is worse than Luke surviving and firing the torpedo that destroyed the Death Star? I suppose she needed to crash and destroy the Falcon. Still more than any other person did in that battle. Guess he's their Marty Stu. She didn't do that while under attack by the Imperial Army. His first time ever in a real battle and not only does he survive while many other Veterans die, he blows up the Death Star. Yeah, she should crash every ship she flies. Which so far has been only ONE. I guess she needed to be a helpless torture victim and unable to defend herself at all. Total bumbler who can't use the Force in the least.
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