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Post by dividavi on May 10, 2019 12:23:01 GMT
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Post by politicidal on May 10, 2019 13:03:08 GMT
What’s he think this is? 1939?
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Post by Isapop on May 10, 2019 13:39:24 GMT
Do we know of any high level Catholic leaders denouncing this?
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2019 13:56:47 GMT
Well... did the Zionist Congress of 1911 actually say:
“Our natural enemy is the Catholic Church. So we have to pour a spirit of displeasure on this cursed tree, lack of faith, lack of morality and grime of all kinds. We must stir up a struggle between the various Christian sects.”
Or not?
And what Jewish leaders since have come out and condemned the Zionist Congress for it?
Many zionist Jews have a real dislike of Catholics... Catholic property and people are regularly victims of hate crimes by Jews in Israel.
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Post by Aj_June on May 10, 2019 14:18:28 GMT
Catholic Church will ever change? Well, never. Over a millennium of violence on Jews, Hindus, Buddhists and pagans and a wish to change everyone to their shitty religion.
This asshole bishop cited a libelous anti-semtic article and his asshole fans justify his shitty views on basis of you are also bad. Fuck these weirdos.
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Post by Aj_June on May 10, 2019 14:23:09 GMT
Oh and the article that claimed lies about 1911 Zionist congress was written in 1937. Any guesses on who might be the people who wrote it? And which scoundrels are willing to readily believe in it?
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Post by Isapop on May 10, 2019 14:36:34 GMT
Well... did the Zionist Congress of 1911 actually say: “Our natural enemy is the Catholic Church. So we have to pour a spirit of displeasure on this cursed tree, lack of faith, lack of morality and grime of all kinds. We must stir up a struggle between the various Christian sects.” Or not? And what Jewish leaders since have come out and condemned the Zionist Congress for it? Since, as you acknowledge, we don't know if that statement was made at the Zionist Congress, no one is obliged to condemn the ZC for it.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2019 14:40:58 GMT
Well... did the Zionist Congress of 1911 actually say: “Our natural enemy is the Catholic Church. So we have to pour a spirit of displeasure on this cursed tree, lack of faith, lack of morality and grime of all kinds. We must stir up a struggle between the various Christian sects.” Or not? And what Jewish leaders since have come out and condemned the Zionist Congress for it? Since, as you acknowledge, we don't know if that statement was made at the Zionist Congress, no one is obliged to condemn the ZC for it. So we need to establish the veracity of whether that statement comes from there or not? |
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Post by Isapop on May 10, 2019 14:46:25 GMT
Since, as you acknowledge, we don't know if that statement was made at the Zionist Congress, no one is obliged to condemn the ZC for it. So we need to establish the veracity of whether that statement comes from there or not? If you want a condemnation of the SOURCE of the statement, then yes, we must establish if the offending statement really comes from the accused source.
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Post by Stammerhead on May 10, 2019 15:01:28 GMT
It’s always best to blame the other fella.
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Post by politicidal on May 10, 2019 15:34:41 GMT
So we need to establish the veracity of whether that statement comes from there or not? If you want a condemnation of the SOURCE of the statement, then yes, we must establish if the offending statement really comes from the accused source. And the bishop got from a 1937 article asserting that this statement was made at the 1911 congress. But I've yet to find it.
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Post by Pangolin on May 10, 2019 15:37:45 GMT
Well... did the Zionist Congress of 1911 actually say: “Our natural enemy is the Catholic Church. So we have to pour a spirit of displeasure on this cursed tree, lack of faith, lack of morality and grime of all kinds. We must stir up a struggle between the various Christian sects.” Or not? And what Jewish leaders since have come out and condemned the Zionist Congress for it? Many zionist Jews have a real dislike of Catholics... Catholic property and people are regularly victims of hate crimes by Jews in Israel. From the linked article I found this very intriguing: So why do I find this interesting? It could actually have been said by no other than Nazi-propaganda minister Joseph Goebbels in the very same year. He wanted to destroy the reputation of the Roman Catholic Church through the so called "Sittlichkeitsprozesse". It's obvious why he wanted that - at that time you had Catholic youth groups that were like their own version of the Boy Scout Movement and Goebbels wanted the Hitler youth to be the only organisation that was able to indoctrinate young Germans. Der Höhepunkt der NS-Propaganda war am 28. Mai 1937 erreicht, als die Rede von Joseph Goebbels in der Berliner Deutschlandhalle von allen Rundfunksendern übertragen und am folgenden Tag unter der Überschrift „Letzte Warnung!“ in allen Zeitungen des Deutschen Reichs erschien. Dem Propagandaminister zufolge sollten Tausende von Weltklerikern und Ordensmännern „planmäßige sittliche Vernichtung Tausender von Kindern und Kranken“ betrieben haben. Goebbels bezeichnete die Geistlichen als „vertierte und skrupellose Jugendschänder“ und forderte, dass „diese Sexualpest mit Stumpf und Stiel ausgerottet werden“ müsse. Er zeigte sich erfreut und dankbar, dass Hitler „als der berufene Beschützer der deutschen Jugend mit eiserner Strenge gegen die Verderber und Vergifter unserer Volksseele“ vorgehe.Translation: The height of Nazi propaganda was reached on May 28 1937, when Joseph Goebbels' speech in Berlin's Deutschlandhalle was broadcast by all radio stations and appeared on the following day in all newspapers of the 3rd Reich under the headline "Final Warning!" According to the Minister of Propaganda, thousands of secular priests and monks were said to have carried out "the systematic moral annihilation of thousands of children and sick people". Goebbels described the clerics as "brutish and ruthless ravishers of the youth" and demanded that "this sexual plague must be destroyed root and branch". He was pleased and grateful that Hitler "as the appointed protector of the German youth, was acting with iron rigor against the corrupters and poisoners of the soul of our people".
de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sittlichkeitsprozesse_gegen_Ordensangeh%C3%B6rige_und_Priester_im_Nationalsozialismus
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Post by Isapop on May 10, 2019 16:32:16 GMT
If you want a condemnation of the SOURCE of the statement, then yes, we must establish if the offending statement really comes from the accused source. And the bishop got from a 1937 article asserting that this statement was made at the 1911 congress. But I've yet to find it. Even so, let's be very lax for a moment, and suppose that an attendee of the Zionist Congress said such a thing. Does that mean the ZC should be held to account? Only if the ZC, as a body, included that sentiment in their stated principles or drafted resolutions. On the other hand, if the ZC trash canned the statement as the simple raving of a disreputable extremist, then they can't be rightly condemned.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2019 16:52:35 GMT
And the bishop got from a 1937 article asserting that this statement was made at the 1911 congress. But I've yet to find it. Even so, let's be very lax for a moment, and suppose that an attendee of the Zionist Congress said such a thing. Does that mean the ZC should be held to account? Only if the ZC, as a body, included that sentiment in their stated principles or drafted resolutions. On the other hand, if the ZC trash canned the statement as the simple raving of a disreputable extremist, then they can't be rightly condemned.
Jews today could make a start by condemning anti-Catholic crimes in Israel by Jews? The Israel education system that promotes contempt for Catholics. The Israeli police failing to investigate regular hate crimes against Catholics seriously. These pro-Israel websites, or Israel politicians never condemn the anti-Catholic undercurrent rampant in israel do they? |
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Post by goz on May 10, 2019 23:35:36 GMT
Having read that article carefully, I have found several things that are disturbing and from both sides of the argument.
I find it disturbing that this article is published by the 'Jewish Press' in an apologist manner.
I find it disturbing that the Catholic Church in this article are 'blaming' the Jews in an apologist manner .
I have Polish ancestry, a Polish son in law and I have been there several times for fairly extended periods and I notice that it is a country in conflict between young and old, conservatism and liberalism and of course the schism between the Catholic Church and the guilt of what happened to the Jews before and during WW2.
In addition, the Polish Catholic bishops are VERY reticent about the alleged sexual abuse, and very secretive, claiming it occurs at very low levels in Poland. Whether this is true or not is difficult to ascertain due to the power of the Church there and the secrecy.
Frankly I take this article with a grain of salt as it is really just a pissing match from both sides.
Typical religious bigotry really!
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Post by dividavi on May 11, 2019 2:27:31 GMT
Having read that article carefully, I have found several things that are disturbing and from both sides of the argument. I find it disturbing that this article is published by the 'Jewish Press' in an apologist manner. I find it disturbing that the Catholic Church in this article are 'blaming' the Jews in an apologist manner . I have Polish ancestry, a Polish son in law and I have been there several times for fairly extended periods and I notice that it is a country in conflict between young and old, conservatism and liberalism and of course the schism between the Catholic Church and the guilt of what happened to the Jews before and during WW2. In addition, the Polish Catholic bishops are VERY reticent about the alleged sexual abuse, and very secretive, claiming it occurs at very low levels in Poland. Whether this is true or not is difficult to ascertain due to the power of the Church there and the secrecy. Frankly I take this article with a grain of salt as it is really just a pissing match from both sides. Typical religious bigotry really! What's this "both sides of the argument"? There's only one side and there's no argument. Bishop Andrzej Jeż of the city of Tarnów, southeast of Kraków did in fact give an Easter sermon where he denounced some Jewish plot that was created in 1911. According to the Bishop, this Jewish scheme is what's behind the bad media coverage the RCC has received regarding the problem of child sexual abuse by priests. That's what the Jewish Press said and it accurately summarized what the Bishop said. Bishop Jez showed himself to be a liar and a fool. The remarks he attributed to some 1911 Zionist conference were fabricated just as were the Protocols of Zion. If, however, the Bishop's detractors (myself included) are mistaken he should demonstrate the truth stated in whatever 1937 book he used. He should make us look ridiculous while demonstrating what a diligent researcher he is. He won't and he can't because his source is useless, the 1911 remarks were never made, and he's a stupid liar. "I find it disturbing that this article is published by the 'Jewish Press' in an apologist manner." What is that supposed to mean? The Jewish Press report was accurate as far as I can tell. From you perspective, where is some apologist manner distortion in the report?
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Post by goz on May 11, 2019 2:53:06 GMT
Having read that article carefully, I have found several things that are disturbing and from both sides of the argument. I find it disturbing that this article is published by the 'Jewish Press' in an apologist manner. I find it disturbing that the Catholic Church in this article are 'blaming' the Jews in an apologist manner . I have Polish ancestry, a Polish son in law and I have been there several times for fairly extended periods and I notice that it is a country in conflict between young and old, conservatism and liberalism and of course the schism between the Catholic Church and the guilt of what happened to the Jews before and during WW2. In addition, the Polish Catholic bishops are VERY reticent about the alleged sexual abuse, and very secretive, claiming it occurs at very low levels in Poland. Whether this is true or not is difficult to ascertain due to the power of the Church there and the secrecy. Frankly I take this article with a grain of salt as it is really just a pissing match from both sides. Typical religious bigotry really! What's this "both sides of the argument"? There's only one side and there's no argument. Bishop Andrzej Jeż of the city of Tarnów, southeast of Kraków did in fact give an Easter sermon where he denounced some Jewish plot that was created in 1911. According to the Bishop, this Jewish scheme is what's behind the bad media coverage the RCC has received regarding the problem of child sexual abuse by priests. That's what the Jewish Press said and it accurately summarized what the Bishop said. Bishop Jez showed himself to be a liar and a fool. The remarks he attributed to some 1911 Zionist conference were fabricated just as were the Protocols of Zion. If, however, the Bishop's detractors (myself included) are mistaken he should demonstrate the truth stated in whatever 1937 book he used. He should make us look ridiculous while demonstrating what a diligent researcher he is. He won't and he can't because his source is useless, the 1911 remarks were never made, and he's a stupid liar. "I find it disturbing that this article is published by the 'Jewish Press' in an apologist manner." What is that supposed to mean? The Jewish Press report was accurate as far as I can tell. From you perspective, where is some apologist manner distortion in the report? There are always two (at least) sides to every story. You are acting as though the Jews are completely blameless and innocent when we don't know this and it is just the kind of 'poor me...we Jews are always being blamed for everything article that fits into the agenda of a pro-Jewish newspaper. I told you that within Poland there are some very complex religious and social situations due to their unusual history. IMHO The Catholics have no right to drag up old grudges in the modern context when we know that they are deeply at fault and divided over the paedophilia issue. However the Jewish newspaper article is disingenuous and preaching to the Jewish choir to make them feel their usual level of persecution. You sound partisan.. Are you Jewish? (not that it matters to me as I am anti-religion in general). When there are issues like these it does no-one any good.
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Post by Aj_June on May 11, 2019 3:15:13 GMT
What's this "both sides of the argument"? There's only one side and there's no argument. Bishop Andrzej Jeż of the city of Tarnów, southeast of Kraków did in fact give an Easter sermon where he denounced some Jewish plot that was created in 1911. According to the Bishop, this Jewish scheme is what's behind the bad media coverage the RCC has received regarding the problem of child sexual abuse by priests. That's what the Jewish Press said and it accurately summarized what the Bishop said. Bishop Jez showed himself to be a liar and a fool. The remarks he attributed to some 1911 Zionist conference were fabricated just as were the Protocols of Zion. If, however, the Bishop's detractors (myself included) are mistaken he should demonstrate the truth stated in whatever 1937 book he used. He should make us look ridiculous while demonstrating what a diligent researcher he is. He won't and he can't because his source is useless, the 1911 remarks were never made, and he's a stupid liar. "I find it disturbing that this article is published by the 'Jewish Press' in an apologist manner." What is that supposed to mean? The Jewish Press report was accurate as far as I can tell. From you perspective, where is some apologist manner distortion in the report? There are always two (at least) sides to every story. You are acting as though the Jews are completely blameless and innocent when we don't know this and it is just the kind of 'poor me...we Jews are always being blamed for everything article that fits into the agenda of a pro-Jewish newspaper. I told you that within Poland there are some very complex religious and social situations due to their unusual history. IMHO The Catholics have no right to drag up old grudges in the modern context when we know that they are deeply at fault and divided over the paedophilia issue. However the Jewish newspaper article is disingenuous and preaching to the Jewish choir to make them feel their usual level of persecution. You sound partisan.. Are you Jewish? (not that it matters to me as I am anti-religion in general). When there are issues like these it does no-one any good. Did the Catholic Bishop say that Jews are responsible for pedo problems within RCC? Yes, he did. Was he right in saying that. Only in the world of crazy anti-Semitic scumbags and lunatics. Just because the OP linked an article from Jewish site doesn't mean the story is incorrect. It can be read from left leaning trusted websites. Now comes the second question. Did the 1911 Zionist congress say what the fucktard Catholic Bishop said it said? No, it didn't. That in fact comes from 1937 article by anti-Semitic sources. The Jewish Bishop is a piece of crap. He is an open-anti Semite and a crazy man. So in all this whole story is about a Catholic Bishop slandering Jews. All we need to do is condemn him. But nah, we have to also talk about bad Jews. Of course there are bad and good people in all religion. But that doesn't justify a creepy bishop slandering a community with absurd charges that apparently they are causing pedo problems inside their shity church. Imagine if all threads started like this. So a Christian attacked a Muslim place of Worship. The Christian poster writes but are all Muslims good? Do they not to bad things. Oh well.....great logic. The Bishop is a scumbag and any normal decent human being will call him out rather than turning it into both sides are bad game.
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Post by Aj_June on May 11, 2019 3:16:41 GMT
Having read that article carefully, I have found several things that are disturbing and from both sides of the argument. I find it disturbing that this article is published by the 'Jewish Press' in an apologist manner. I find it disturbing that the Catholic Church in this article are 'blaming' the Jews in an apologist manner . I have Polish ancestry, a Polish son in law and I have been there several times for fairly extended periods and I notice that it is a country in conflict between young and old, conservatism and liberalism and of course the schism between the Catholic Church and the guilt of what happened to the Jews before and during WW2. In addition, the Polish Catholic bishops are VERY reticent about the alleged sexual abuse, and very secretive, claiming it occurs at very low levels in Poland. Whether this is true or not is difficult to ascertain due to the power of the Church there and the secrecy. Frankly I take this article with a grain of salt as it is really just a pissing match from both sides. Typical religious bigotry really! What's this "both sides of the argument"? There's only one side and there's no argument. Bishop Andrzej Jeż of the city of Tarnów, southeast of Kraków did in fact give an Easter sermon where he denounced some Jewish plot that was created in 1911. According to the Bishop, this Jewish scheme is what's behind the bad media coverage the RCC has received regarding the problem of child sexual abuse by priests. That's what the Jewish Press said and it accurately summarized what the Bishop said. Bishop Jez showed himself to be a liar and a fool. The remarks he attributed to some 1911 Zionist conference were fabricated just as were the Protocols of Zion. If, however, the Bishop's detractors (myself included) are mistaken he should demonstrate the truth stated in whatever 1937 book he used. He should make us look ridiculous while demonstrating what a diligent researcher he is. He won't and he can't because his source is useless, the 1911 remarks were never made, and he's a stupid liar. "I find it disturbing that this article is published by the 'Jewish Press' in an apologist manner." What is that supposed to mean? The Jewish Press report was accurate as far as I can tell. From you perspective, where is some apologist manner distortion in the report? Just lack of reading comprehension skills and usual antisemitic horse dung. So some Christian religious leader says Jews are causing all the problems in the world. The Jewish press shouldn't report it because the Bishop might be right. The world is full of crackpots and idiots.
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Post by goz on May 11, 2019 3:47:48 GMT
There are always two (at least) sides to every story. You are acting as though the Jews are completely blameless and innocent when we don't know this and it is just the kind of 'poor me...we Jews are always being blamed for everything article that fits into the agenda of a pro-Jewish newspaper. I told you that within Poland there are some very complex religious and social situations due to their unusual history. IMHO The Catholics have no right to drag up old grudges in the modern context when we know that they are deeply at fault and divided over the paedophilia issue. However the Jewish newspaper article is disingenuous and preaching to the Jewish choir to make them feel their usual level of persecution. You sound partisan.. Are you Jewish? (not that it matters to me as I am anti-religion in general). When there are issues like these it does no-one any good. Did the Catholic Bishop say that Jews are responsible for pedo problems within RCC? Yes, he did. Was he right in saying that. Only in the world of crazy anti-Semitic scumbags and lunatics. Just because the OP linked an article from Jewish site doesn't mean the story is incorrect. It can be read from left leaning trusted websites. Now comes the second question. Did the 1911 Zionist congress say what the fucktard Catholic Bishop said it said? No, it didn't. That in fact comes from 1937 article by anti-Semitic sources. The Jewish Bishop is a piece of crap. He is an open-anti Semite and a crazy man. So in all this whole story is about a Catholic Bishop slandering Jews. All we need to do is condemn him. But nah, we have to also talk about bad Jews. Of course there are bad and good people in all religion. But that doesn't justify a creepy bishop slandering a community with absurd charges that apparently they are causing pedo problems inside their shity church. Imagine if all threads started like this. So a Christian attacked a Muslim place of Worship. The Christian posters writes but are all Muslims good? Do they not to bad things. Oh well.....great logic. The Bishop is a scumbag and any normal decent human being will call him out rather than turning it into both sides are bad game. WTF are you talking about? There is nothing good about this whole issue, as it rehashed a long history of inter-faith problems. I never said anything about 'bad Jews' and I am not any more anti-Semitic than I am against all religious nonsense. It leads to shit like this and is totally unnecessary.
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