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Post by Tristan's Journal on Feb 18, 2020 9:14:48 GMT
Just a reminder: you will never get the Star Wars movies you want, while I have endless hours of Star Wars entertainment to look forward to. John Stuart Mill: Wonder what JS Mill would have said about Disney shills?
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Feb 18, 2020 8:43:59 GMT
JJ shot first:
- Luke has vanished - after letting his new Jedi Order being wiped out (again) - by a young Skywalker betrayer who was seduced by a dark side lord (again) - Luke does not clean up the mess by destroying Snoke and redeeming Kylo - but hides on a remote island pouting depressingly by the sea - letting the Empire RISE again "in the meantime" and leaving his family & friends behind - leaving a silly map puzzle behind in his comatose droid
^ the hack pen is mightier than the laser sword. This is how Jake Skywalker was born from the ashes of Luke Skywalker.
Drinking green milk just follows.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Feb 17, 2020 20:03:19 GMT
it's a straw man. No PT needed. Strictly limited to OT: This interpretation without any evidence is inconclusive. It's just not believable that Yoda never told his last Jedi ally Obi about Leia, given their relentless scheming and limited options. It would just be stupid and bad writing unless properly explained. Ha ha - Strictly limited to the OT Obi-Wan was Yoda's last Jedi ally was he? No PT needed eh?This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about - you're calling something "stupid and bad writing" over something which isn't stated anywhere in the OT, you've just extrapolated that from the PT. It doesn't say ANYWHERE in the OT that Obi-Wan was Yoda's last Jedi ally. That is exactly what I am talking about. No PT needed, indeed: "Luke, when gone am I, the last of the Jedi will you be."
" helped the Empire to hunt down and destroy the Jedi...now the Jedi are all but extinct"QED
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Feb 17, 2020 19:40:54 GMT
they are taking risks and redefine the genre with several masterworks (some R rated). It's what differentiates DC from formulaic children movies. Actually the risk taking is by filmmakers who are given total freedom to do whatever they want, you and your fallacious prattling. Film making is a collaborative effort. Studios take financial risks by giving artistic freedom to the filmmakers and allowing for mature, R-rated and unexplored film materials. The results are game changers like Joker, Watchmen, Logan, Deadpool or Dark Knight or Wonder Woman. We know where it ends if such risks are not taken, it leads to "despicable" "theme park rides", right into the man child universe. And there is no return from that. and a guy like you who watches Marvel films and Disney Duck cartoons is competent to make such assessments? Delicious irony. I am glad they "lack vision and understanding" to make a "really great adaption" as you envision it. Always a hoot and a holler with you Dredd.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Feb 17, 2020 18:13:41 GMT
So, you finally have accepted the truth of the OT being full of inconsistencies and contradictions. Gooood! it's a straw man. No PT needed. Strictly limited to OT: This interpretation without any evidence is inconclusive. It's just not believable that Yoda never told his last Jedi ally Obi about Leia, given their relentless scheming and limited options. It would just be stupid and bad writing unless properly explained. It wasn't because it never happened. Not in the storyteller's mind nor any other mind but yours. this is called exposition. Typical that characters remind each other of dangling plot points to inform the audience. And later in Jedi: nothing from Obi that he did not know. Quite the opposite, he tells the twin story like being old news [nods] Mm. To protect you both from the Emperor, you were hidden from your father when you were born. The Emperor knew, as I did, that if Anakin were to have any offspring, they would be a threat to him. That is the reason why your sister remains safely anonymous.it's stupid to argue because you are shifting straw men again: Maybe Obi only needed to be reminded that if Luke fails is not the only option by way of exposition; Obi had just bet all cards on Luke even after he ran away from training, Yoda corrected that. Funny thing is again, all this speaks to inconsistent writing and contradictions: this scene was originally left open as they did not know the resolution. this is not writing, but acting - its not even in the script. Shifting eyes can mean anything and does not prove anything one way or another -especially since nobody knew back than that Vader was to become Luke's father and noble Obi Wan is a pathological liar. nope, false dilemma. Obi when playing the scene just has to tell an ugly tale of the brutal extinction of his Jedi order, and to orphan Luke of his father being betrayed and murdered by Obi's apprentice. It's a set up for the later duel between Obi and Darth.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Feb 17, 2020 12:56:51 GMT
Funny, I thought the criticism was quite the opposite, namely that Disney Star Wars mindlessly rehashed the originals without creating anything relevant of their own (in narrative and design) and thereby negating and diminishing the previous narrative. Lucas not following his narrative is blatantly clear with every OT film contradicting the previous, especially with the father or sister reveals. But those contradictions and twists at least served to improve the drama and to to develop fresh ideas. The only SW trilogy that is coherently written from beginning to end is the PT, Lucas had considerably matured as visionary story teller and architect of world building. True re TFA being a rehash, not sure about the others though - all three are! But 8 and 9 to a considerably lesser degree than 7. there are countless, Darth. They were making it up as they went. -Like Obi Wan (and Yoda) suddenly becoming pathological liars who pit their apprentice Luke to kill his father by heinously making him believe he actually kills his father's betrayer and murderer. Very Jedi-like indeed - they did not even tell the truth when Luke ran into Vader's obvious trap in Empire. You do not need enemies if having such mentors...
- Like Vader having different personalities and motivations per movie, such as wanting to destroy the emperor and rule as father and son, versus having to "serve" his master and protecting him against Luke's attacks bc the dark side is so strong. - Leia flirting and smooching with Luke (and there is even more kinky stuff in the deleted scenes) despite declaring that she always knew they were siblings is another thing. Shifty eyes cannot replace consistent writing. Nothing in the movies would indicate this in any way. This would make the Jedi seem stupid. Yoda not telling Obi about the their only other significant option against the Empire would be unreasonable from a strategic, personal and tactical perspective. Also, from a story perspective as only Obi was close to Anakin and the kids were twins, they came in pairs, hard to miss one. They are liars and hypocrites (from a certain POV) not stupid.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Feb 17, 2020 10:47:23 GMT
they are taking risks and redefine the genre with several masterworks (some R rated). It's what differentiates DC from formulaic children movies.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Feb 13, 2020 13:38:04 GMT
Didn't realize this was supposed to be a "debate". Clearly a different backstory being worked with when the OT was made to when the PT was developed. Lucas simply didn't follow his own template. But still, that in itself is interesting when criticising the DT writers for not following the established narrative - even the creator himself didn't follow his own narratives!Funny, I thought the criticism was quite the opposite, namely that Disney Star Wars mindlessly rehashed the originals without creating anything relevant of their own (in narrative and design) and thereby negating and diminishing the previous narrative. Lucas not following his narrative is blatantly clear with every OT film contradicting the previous, especially with the father or sister reveals. But those contradictions and twists at least served to improve the drama and to to develop fresh ideas. The only SW trilogy that is coherently written from beginning to end is the PT, Lucas had considerably matured as visionary story teller and architect of world building.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Feb 12, 2020 12:26:02 GMT
Was there ever actually any established canon before the prequels came out, about what the Clone Wars was? nope, but there was a lot of lowbrow fiction, down to some female cloners rising against the Empire. there is no indication he had anything concrete except to provide a backstory conflict. Or he had talked about it. the starting of conflict and wars based on taxation is a common theme in history and fiction, see Robin Hood or the history your own country. If you actually watch the movie, you would find that the trade dispute only serves as a background pretext for the main conflict: namely military INVASION of a free system by business organizations (like with trade federations or the Hanseatic league, or Tibet etc) which again serves as a scheme for Palpatine using the corruption and unrest within the Republic to become chancellor. as before, watching the movie helps. It is not that difficult to figure out. Btw, the movies are not about the clone wars (that would be the show) but about the corruption and downfall of liberty and the rise of dictatorship. The clone war essentially happens between Ep II and III. Funny did you not just complain the other way? The objectives are explained in the movies via text and dialogue. They are Separatists (nomen est omen!) wishing to break away (=separate) from the Republic and are lead by count Dooku. The political motivations for separation (corruption, taxation/trade, autonomy, Sith infiltration) are not really relevant but are explained by Dooku, Palpatine, the commercial guilds and other places in the movies. Counter question: the OT is about the "galactic civil war": could you indicate the objectives and goals based on the movie dialogue without just stating "cause they are evil"; and why don't you have a problem with that?
Good then that one does not need the show to understand the movies. Just ask some thinking fans who have never watched the show. Again, this is not the point of the movies. And: Possibly, pity nobody during 4 decades ever came up with something. I guess Lucas will do fine.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Feb 12, 2020 10:48:58 GMT
yeah, the thing is that Lucas, for the ending of his tragic moral tale, he really needed one of the the main protagonists to die this time around (compare that to the OT criticism where Lucas refused to have any of the good guys die, even Lando which reduced the stakes in a war story).
For this Lucas did a little bit of a retcon by having Padme die so early. There are essentially two concepts to construe this:
- Force Memory: Leia is established as an Force empath meaning she actually remembers her dying mother through the Force (like a reverse vision of the past Anakin or Luke had). I think this is the prevailing opinion within the fandom.
- Adoptive Mother: I personally prefer the non-magic explanations: Leia is talking about Bail's wife Breha who we see in RotS and might have died when Leia was a girl, and who Leia deemed her real mother (her name is Organa) probably before Bail remarried. It is unlikely Leia as Princess knew she was adopted (adoption would likely void her title and claim and her real origins were meant to kept secret to protect her), so this theory has some validity too.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Feb 11, 2020 10:28:10 GMT
Star wars is guilty of several racial stereotypes, beginning with Jawas and gay Brit-Butlers, but none of them bother me as they are portrayed via funny aliens and robots and are not malignant, this is not "Jud Süß" (a nazi propaganda film).
The only thing that I find baffling is the racial caricature of Finn in Force Awakens, written by notoriously PC SJWs, not alt righter:
- runaway slave motive - gets his name by a white guy (historically sensitive!) - cowardly flees and rejoices killing his slave-brothers/sisters without remorse - jives crap like "Droid, please!" - is lying to and stalking the white chick (Boyfriend, cute boyfriend? Reeeeeeey!!!!) - gets electrocuted (several time) and called a thief - drinks/pushed by animals and is strangled by Chewie (he does it only with black guys) - turns out to be the janitor - is notoriously inferior to the white guys at everything and needs their help (flying, languages, mechanics, fighting etc)
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Feb 11, 2020 10:09:27 GMT
not really.
But the characters in Force Awakens would make much more sense if you imagine Crylo Ben as a 8 year old boy with anger issues and Rey as a 12 year old. Even her whopping his ass would make (more) sense.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Feb 11, 2020 10:04:13 GMT
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Feb 11, 2020 9:44:09 GMT
she is accurately rated.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Feb 11, 2020 9:42:49 GMT
eh, the weirdness is based on the historical character of Olympias, she got a bad rep by historians (who mostly lived centuries later) as a scheming, narcissistic mother who suggested to Alex that his father was really the god Zeus, being behind the murdering of her husband and his other wife's and children, and being a crazed snake cult member. In the end she was stoned to death by her victims and denied burial right despite being Alex's mom, so there must have been something fishy about her.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Feb 10, 2020 19:09:39 GMT
Ah, I forgot about this message. See this is what I was talking about. Your creepy obsession and hurling out your demented ramblings. Oh, I forgot, you don't take things "to seriously" and you in no way have a obsessive complex. what is "a obsessive complex"? Do you mean an obsessive–compulsive disorder? If yes, how did you come to that distance diagnosis? If you think I am obsessing over you, well I don't know how to tell you... (but all that would be within the scope of covert/vulnerable narcissist characteristics who obsessively projects envy & jealousy upon everybody making themselves center and coveted - in the end there is a strong co-morbidity factor with borderline disorder).
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Feb 10, 2020 18:40:01 GMT
Daisy Daisy, give me your answer do I'm half crazy, all for the love of you... *Dave unplugs the core memories* damn you, you just blew up one of my most favorite scenes. Damn you all to HAL!
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Feb 10, 2020 18:24:21 GMT
The look and feel of the Empire was definitely based on the Nazis. I don't think anyone is disputing that. The ideology is another thing. The idea of the Empire being human-supremacist was purely an EU thing back in the day. Oh...haha I didn't catch that's what was being argued. Oops! Yeah, I don't think there's any information from either the movies or George Lucas that the Empire sought to set humans above other species. If anything, it was to place the Empire/the Emperor above everyone else. To do anything else would have been too limiting with the vast galaxy they intended to enslave. The other species would have outnumbered humans. The EU did encourage that idea. I know it was stated at one point that Thrawn was one of the few aliens given the privilege not only to be a part of the Empire, but to rise up in the ranks to Grand Admiral due to his intellect/cunning. ... I saw that only after I sent my response. Lets agree to agree.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Feb 10, 2020 18:22:15 GMT
pretty much not. There is not one line in any canon material to corroborate that? Truth is, the Empire and Rebellion were originally white sausage fests (we do not know what was under the trooper helmets though) until it got diversified later with the alien-looking Emperor or Thrawn in Rebels/EU. Also, they work with alien bounty hunters as freelancers. The prequels also show that this is nonsense: Palatinates closed allies in the senate (and his supposed squeeze) are aliens;his apprentice Maul is alien; his Confederate allies such as the Trade Federation or the Banking Clan are non-human aliens. Thus, Palpatine is hardly a human-supremacist, but a Sith-power supremacist. Would not make any lick of sense in a super-diversified Republic/Empire anyway. Creped is actually right here. The Lucasfilm documentaries on Star Wars back when George Lucas owned the franchise state that he fashioned the Empire after the Nazi regime. The title of 'Stormtrooper' was even a type of special German soldier during World War 1. If you pull out your DVD's and watch the supplemental features, they can corroborate this. Also, here's a link on the real life Stormtroopers: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stormtrooper yes, as stated by the other poster, the ascetics/looks of the Empire are unmistakably inspired by the Nazi regime and its propaganda culture (Leni Riefenstahl "Triumph of the Will" films etc). Stormtrooper is Sturmtruppen in German, still a regular military term for assault units. No contest here. However, the ideology of the Empire in the OT is not determined and thus open to projection: In the 80s some claimed the evil empire represents the communists and launched the Star Wars missile defense program. Now some people see a quasi Nazi alt right supremacy ideology. But there is no basis for any of that (apart from some legend books). It's like claiming that Jabba is meant to parody Trump, ex post interpretation rather than intent. The prequels showed that the Empire's core ideology is not so much racial, but religious: some weird sect called the Sith (never mentioned in the OT) wants to rule the galaxy again by invoking the dark side of the Force. They sure don't like democracy, but prefer dictatorship. But the Sith seem not to be racially motivated, Darth Plagueis was a Muun ; Maul and Grievous..whatever they were. If there was a human supremacy ideology within the Empire it is strange why it is never mentioned by anyone in the movies.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Feb 10, 2020 16:34:32 GMT
"better" is relative, but Indy IV by far. Force Awakens was a once in a lifetime shock event for me. I went in it as an unspoiled fanboy expecting to meet old friends and icons, and went out like after participating in a train crash suffering from cinematic whip lash. It felt like a halfwit spitting and shouting at you trying to retell and 'member the original trilogy. What an unoriginal and un-creative mess. One of the biggest cinematic scams of all times.
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