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Post by phludowin on Aug 4, 2018 19:16:15 GMT
This injecting a lot of hormone seems like one of those gay conversion therapies. For years many people thought (some still do) that gays can be made straight as if homosexuality is some disease. One of the articles linked by OldSamVimes mentioned experiments with hormones and rhesus monkeys, and supposedly changing gendertypical behaviour. However, I don't know how sound the science is. A few years ago, I stumbled across some Norvegian satirist who supposedly debunked gender studies. And he got backup from "scientists" who had baby girls and boys checking which tissue they liked better. Supposedly the baby girls liked "girly" stuff better than "boyish" stuff. But: The babies shown in the video all were already wearing gender-typical clothes. There was no control group with boys in ruffles and girls in harder cloth. And there was no mention of how big the sample size was. And these people accused gender scientists of doing bad science... Whenever I hear something about supposed "natural" gender stereotypes, I think about creationists, climate change deniers, and flat earthers. |
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Post by OldSamVimes on Aug 4, 2018 23:42:09 GMT
This injecting a lot of hormone seems like one of those gay conversion therapies. For years many people thought (some still do) that gays can be made straight as if homosexuality is some disease. One of the articles linked by OldSamVimes mentioned experiments with hormones and rhesus monkeys, and supposedly changing gendertypical behaviour. However, I don't know how sound the science is. A few years ago, I stumbled across some Norvegian satirist who supposedly debunked gender studies. And he got backup from "scientists" who had baby girls and boys checking which tissue they liked better. Supposedly the baby girls liked "girly" stuff better than "boyish" stuff. But: The babies shown in the video all were already wearing gender-typical clothes. There was no control group with boys in ruffles and girls in harder cloth. And there was no mention of how big the sample size was. And these people accused gender scientists of doing bad science... Whenever I hear something about supposed "natural" gender stereotypes, I think about creationists, climate change deniers, and flat earthers. 'Gender studies' can be a hilarious field. Some of them talk like they don't believe testosterone and estrogen exist, LOL. I'm a male nurse, 80% of my coworkers have always been female (conservative estimate). If I ask them, a vast majority over the years tell me they wanted to be nurses, that they didn't feel tricked or pushed into nursing. I notice that people who push for gender equality in professions ignore medicine and nursing. That's because they're selective in what kind of gender equality they want. If they get their way we'll be going into schools to tell young girls 'Sorry, you can't be a nurse, there are already enough girl nurses', then saying the same thing to the boys about things like engineering. I guess maybe if we force boys and girls to be the same society will be better? I don't see what's so horrible about boys and girls being different (in general)? It's a weird idea IMO. |
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Post by Aj_June on Aug 5, 2018 0:07:14 GMT
One of the articles linked by OldSamVimes mentioned experiments with hormones and rhesus monkeys, and supposedly changing gendertypical behaviour. However, I don't know how sound the science is. A few years ago, I stumbled across some Norvegian satirist who supposedly debunked gender studies. And he got backup from "scientists" who had baby girls and boys checking which tissue they liked better. Supposedly the baby girls liked "girly" stuff better than "boyish" stuff. But: The babies shown in the video all were already wearing gender-typical clothes. There was no control group with boys in ruffles and girls in harder cloth. And there was no mention of how big the sample size was. And these people accused gender scientists of doing bad science... Whenever I hear something about supposed "natural" gender stereotypes, I think about creationists, climate change deniers, and flat earthers. 'Gender studies' can be a hilarious field. Some of them talk like they don't believe testosterone and estrogen exist, LOL. I'm a male nurse, 80% of my coworkers have always been female (conservative estimate). If I ask them, a vast majority over the years tell me they wanted to be nurses, that they didn't feel tricked or pushed into nursing. I notice that people who push for gender equality in professions ignore medicine and nursing. That's because they're selective in what kind of gender equality they want. If they get their way we'll be going into schools to tell young girls 'Sorry, you can't be a nurse, there are already enough girl nurses', then saying the same thing to the boys about things like engineering. I guess maybe if we force boys and girls to be the same society will be better? I don't see what's so horrible about boys and girls being different (in general)? It's a weird idea IMO. It's cute how you have learned to shift a discussion by talking nonsense. That along with your own gender identification as a female on this board and use of idiotic tagline 'gender/racial/species fluid' paint you as a pure troll. Sad. |
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Post by Aj_June on Aug 5, 2018 5:36:46 GMT
It's cute how you have learned to shift a discussion by talking nonsense. That along with your own gender identification as a female on this board and use of idiotic tagline 'gender/racial/species fluid' paint you as a pure troll. Sad. is not a sad troll. He comes out with some very astute and sharp observations and many points he makes are dressed up with quick wit and pithy humor. I'm sorry that you don't see this. The nature of his profession and his droll personality, I'd say would be very welcome for the patients he will deal with. I bet they love him. Perhaps you are being too rigid with your assessment of him.  Old Sam vimes was at one point of time my favourite poster on this board. He also rated me as one of his most liked posters. We talked a lot about Vedanta philosophy a few years back. Something happened an year ago and he changed his views very sharply on almost every issue. The change is of very similar nature. He has a right political leaning on issues (I encourage people to hold neutral political bias and don't favour left or right). I was one of the Muslim haters on this site. Sam's posts along with many other member's posts made me see how wrong I was. I changed my stance and apologised for my posts on Muslims. Have never gone back to my former ways in last 2 years. Sam also taught me to not watch news and how politics is bad. Good thing for me that I stopped watching news. But he went in opposite direction and gets totally involved in political issues. So in essence oldsamvimes actually made a difference in my real life (especially by putting me off news and politics). But things have changed for him at the same time. Many people have noted his change. That said even in his former days he wouldn't deny that he occasionally trolled. I am not against occasional trolling but if someone starts trolling in a political sort of way and on serious issues then it's not good. I do love to see real oldsamvimes more than anything but as I said it is sad how he has changed. |
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Post by Aj_June on Aug 5, 2018 5:39:47 GMT
He claims to have a lot of experiences with recreational drugs. May be that has affected his mind a bit. But I am not sure.
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Post by Aj_June on Aug 5, 2018 6:40:59 GMT
Old Sam vimes was at one point of time my favourite poster on this board. He also rated me as one of his most liked posters. We talked a lot about Vedanta philosophy a few years back. Something happened an year ago and he changed his views very sharply on almost every issue. The change is of very similar nature. He has a right political leaning on issues (I encourage people to hold neutral political bias and don't favour left or right). I was one of the Muslim haters on this site. Sam's posts along with many other member's posts made me see how wrong I was. I changed my stance and apologised for my posts on Muslims. Have never gone back to my former ways in last 2 years. Sam also taught me to not watch news and how politics is bad. Good thing for me that I stopped watching news. But he went in opposite direction and gets totally involved in political issues. So in essence oldsamvimes actually made a difference in my real life (especially by putting me off news and politics). But things have changed for him at the same time. Many people have noted his change. That said even in his former days he wouldn't deny that he occasionally trolled. I am not against occasional trolling but if someone starts trolling in a political sort of way and in serious issues then it's not good. I do love to see real oldsamvimes more than anything but as I said it is sad how he has changed. People can and do change perspectives on certain issues and while I like your point about neutral political bias, that is not to dismiss that either left or right may also have some valid and credible points as well. Much of our lives are politics, whether they be personal, or what we see as life ideals being projected onto us by governments and institutions.
Yes, the left wing or the right wing can occasionally have reasonable views on any issue. OSV has simultaneously changed his views on almost all topics in the same direction (towards right. One reason could be that he is miffed with current Canadian PM). That said I have nothing against OSV for disliking the left leaning Canadian PM. He indeed may not be a good leader. But changing all his views towards right is pretty alarming.
Let's take the topic of homosexuality.
one of the points that are made against homosexuality is the following:
1) Human race cannot progress if all men became gays and eventually human race will become extinct. This is an absurd point which should not even be taken seriously. Is homosexuality a contagious thing that all men will suddenly become homosexuals? In the same way, some people who have problems with Transgenders often exaggerate things to such a level that they make posts just for the sake of having another post. "I guess maybe if we force boys and girls to be the same society will be better?" Now this is just a total nonsense. People who stand for rights of Transgenders do not claim any such things.
Trolling can have various forms. Sometimes one can troll as in Game of Thrones board or movie boards just to get rise out of people. In such cases people are not serious about what they say. They just want to annoy others by saying something that is not true or very unpopular. Some trolling can be person specific. While Ada was a horrible human being she often got trolled by some. OSV has previously indulged in light trolling. His threads such as earth is banana shaped or pineapple shaped were examples of his sarcasm on other posters . He was trolling but it was pretty entertaining. In last year or so OSV has changed his views and his posts are sometimes not much different from homophobic trolls who would talk of gay conversion therapy or similar nonsense. I just hope he starts posting like he did in the old days.
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Post by Aj_June on Aug 5, 2018 7:16:26 GMT
Yes, the left wing or the right wing can occasionally have reasonable views on any issue. OSV has simultaneously changed his views on almost all topics in the same direction (towards right. One reason could be that he is miffed with current Canadian PM). That said I have nothing against OSV for disliking the left leaning Canadian PM. He indeed may not be a good leader. But changing all his views towards right is pretty alarming.
Let's take the topic of homosexuality.
one of the points that are made against homosexuality is the following:
1) Human race cannot progress if all men became gays and eventually human race will become extinct. This is an absurd point which should not even be taken seriously. Is homosexuality a contagious thing that all men will suddenly become homosexuals? In the same way, some people who have problems with Transgenders often exaggerate things to such a level that they make posts just for the sake of having another post. "I guess maybe if we force boys and girls to be the same society will be better?" Now this is just a total nonsense. People who stand for rights of Transgenders do not claim any such things.
Trolling can have various forms. Sometimes one can troll as in Game of Thrones board or movie boards just to get rise out of people. In such cases people are not serious about what they say. They just want to annoy others by saying something that is not true or very unpopular. Some trolling can be person specific. While Ada was a horrible human being she often got trolled by some. OSV has previously indulged in light trolling. His threads such as earth is banana shaped or pineapple shaped were examples of his sarcasm on other posters . He was trolling but it was pretty entertaining. In last year or so OSV has changed his views and his posts are sometimes not much different from homophobic trolls who would talk of gay conversion therapy or similar nonsense. I just hope he starts posting like he did in the old days. I don't take OSV seriously, since he is gender fluid.  His points regarding homosexuality are just sarcasm. He is one the least homophobic posters on here. He hasn't so far posted anything homophobic I would agree with that. That said I wasn't saying he made any points against homosexuality. It was mostly homophobes who did and not as a sarcasm. OSV's exaggerations about claims of those who are for rights of transgender community does bear resemblance to the points made by those homophobes. |
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Post by phludowin on Aug 5, 2018 12:27:37 GMT
I notice that people who push for gender equality in professions ignore medicine and nursing. That's because they're selective in what kind of gender equality they want. If they get their way we'll be going into schools to tell young girls 'Sorry, you can't be a nurse, there are already enough girl nurses', then saying the same thing to the boys about things like engineering. I doubt such people exist. If you can't prove they do, I'll choose not to believe you. |
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Post by OldSamVimes on Aug 5, 2018 15:54:15 GMT
I notice that people who push for gender equality in professions ignore medicine and nursing. That's because they're selective in what kind of gender equality they want. If they get their way we'll be going into schools to tell young girls 'Sorry, you can't be a nurse, there are already enough girl nurses', then saying the same thing to the boys about things like engineering. I doubt such people exist. If you can't prove they do, I'll choose not to believe you. Not yet, but at some point we'll have to intervene at younger ages to get rid of pesky gender differences. Hopefully we'll also be able to surgically remove sex organs at birth and make everyone nice and smooth down there like Barbie and Ken dolls. We will achieve gender equality and fix the mistakes made by nature. |
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Post by OldSamVimes on Aug 5, 2018 15:57:55 GMT
But here is one.. personal experience trumps 'informed opinion' every time. Only on personal basis. Not for others. Your experiences have zero utility for millions of others.
Actually, other peoples experiences have limitless utility for me. I read books filled with their experiences and observations and I learn from their experiences. We all do that. One thing we can't learn from is someone else's lack of experiences, unless we're learning about what it's like to not experience things (but without also experiencing them we have nothing to compare the lack of experience with). |
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Post by Aj_June on Aug 5, 2018 16:04:17 GMT
Only on personal basis. Not for others. Your experiences have zero utility for millions of others.
Actually, other peoples experiences have limitless utility for me. I read books filled with their experiences and observations and I learn from their experiences. We all do that. To suggest that personal experience has 'zero utility for others' is illogical and absurd. Here is what I actually wrote - "Your experiences have zero utility for millions of others. May be there are also millions who may share your experiences or find utility in them like you do." I didn't write your personal experience has zero utility for others but zero utility for millions of others. I even went ahead to clarify that many millions may share your experience or like them. The conclusion is that there is no set of personal experiences that apply to all human beings. As such it is but absurd for anyone to claim every person should experience 3 things or 4 things. Just imagine if everyone came with their "everyone should experience 3 things list"! |
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Post by phludowin on Aug 5, 2018 16:04:30 GMT
Not yet, but at some point we'll have to intervene at younger ages to get rid of pesky gender differences. Hopefully we'll also be able to surgically remove sex organs at birth and make everyone nice and smooth down there like Barbie and Ken dolls. We will achieve gender equality and fix the mistakes made by nature. If you say so... |
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Post by OldSamVimes on Aug 5, 2018 16:07:10 GMT
Not yet, but at some point we'll have to intervene at younger ages to get rid of pesky gender differences. Hopefully we'll also be able to surgically remove sex organs at birth and make everyone nice and smooth down there like Barbie and Ken dolls. We will achieve gender equality and fix the mistakes made by nature. If you say so... I'm hopeful. I want to work with 50% male nurses, even if they're just hired because they have a penis. If we hope to achieve gender equality we have to hire people based on what's between their legs, not what's between their ears. See? I'm coming around! |
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Post by OldSamVimes on Aug 5, 2018 16:15:34 GMT
Actually, other peoples experiences have limitless utility for me. I read books filled with their experiences and observations and I learn from their experiences. We all do that. To suggest that personal experience has 'zero utility for others' is illogical and absurd. Here is what I actually wrote - "Your experiences have zero utility for millions of others. May be there are also millions who may share your experiences or find utility in them like you do." I didn't write your personal experience has zero utility for others but zero utility for millions of others. I even went ahead to clarify that many millions may share your experience or like them. The conclusion is that there is no set of personal experiences that apply to all human beings. As such it is but absurd for anyone to claim every person should experience 3 things or 4 things. Just imagine if everyone came with their "everyone should experience 3 things list"! I changed that last sentence as you were responding. Obviously other peoples experiences will not resonate with everyone. But I'm all for other people sharing things they think everyone should experience.. What's wrong with people doing that? I asked the other guy to share experiences he's had that make him think 'That makes life worth living, that comes close to approximating the purpose of human beings on this Earth'? He either ignored the question or didn't have anything come to mind... 'Just imagine if everyone came with their "everyone should experience 3 things list"'. --- I'm imagining it and it's fine, let's hear your list! Maybe there's something I'm missing out on. |
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Post by Aj_June on Aug 5, 2018 16:20:33 GMT
Here is what I actually wrote - "Your experiences have zero utility for millions of others. May be there are also millions who may share your experiences or find utility in them like you do." I didn't write your personal experience has zero utility for others but zero utility for millions of others. I even went ahead to clarify that many millions may share your experience or like them. The conclusion is that there is no set of personal experiences that apply to all human beings. As such it is but absurd for anyone to claim every person should experience 3 things or 4 things. Just imagine if everyone came with their "everyone should experience 3 things list"! I changed that last sentence as you were responding. Obviously other peoples experiences will not resonate with everyone. But I'm all for other people sharing things they think everyone should experience.. What's wrong with people doing that? I asked the other guy to share experiences he's had that make him think 'That makes life worth living, that comes close to approximating the purpose of human beings on this Earth'? He either ignored the question or didn't have anything come to mind... 'Just imagine if everyone came with their "everyone should experience 3 things list"'. --- I'm imagining it and it's fine, let's hear your list! You didn't just say everyone should just share your experiences. You said everyone should experience 3 things. I do not have any list. I believe people find their path. It is alright if one approaches me for advice in a particular situation and I will try to give them my suggestions. But I do not have a ready made list of 2 things and 3 things which I want everyone to experience. Not everything is fit for everyone. I have a jobless cousin who beats her old grandmother for he is addicted to drugs, ironically his dad did the same to his mother till he lived. |
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Post by OldSamVimes on Aug 5, 2018 16:28:30 GMT
I changed that last sentence as you were responding. Obviously other peoples experiences will not resonate with everyone. But I'm all for other people sharing things they think everyone should experience.. What's wrong with people doing that? I asked the other guy to share experiences he's had that make him think 'That makes life worth living, that comes close to approximating the purpose of human beings on this Earth'? He either ignored the question or didn't have anything come to mind... 'Just imagine if everyone came with their "everyone should experience 3 things list"'. --- I'm imagining it and it's fine, let's hear your list! You didn't just say everyone should just share your experiences. You said everyone should experience 3 things. I do not have any list. I believe people find their path. It is alright if one approaches me for advice in a particular situation and I will try to give them my suggestions. But I do not have a ready made list of 2 things and 3 things which I want everyone to experience. Not everything is fit for everyone. I have a jobless cousin who beats her old grandmother for he is addicted to drugs, ironically his dad did the same to his mother till he lived. Obviously it was my opinion that 'everyone should experience these three things'. Sorry if I phrased that in a way that implied my opinion should be respected more than someone else's. I guess I can start putting 'IMO' in front of more of my posts, but it seems like it should be obvious on some level. What about this.. If you died and had the chance to talk to someone just getting ready to be born here there wouldn't be anything you'd want to say in the "Make sure you try the ______" kind of vein? Is there nothing from here that you would recommend? One or two things you'd make sure you experienced again? (Not sure what relevance your jobless cousin has to the discussion, I also have a jobless relative who uses drugs.. so there's some common ground?) |
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Post by Aj_June on Aug 5, 2018 16:38:08 GMT
You didn't just say everyone should just share your experiences. You said everyone should experience 3 things. I do not have any list. I believe people find their path. It is alright if one approaches me for advice in a particular situation and I will try to give them my suggestions. But I do not have a ready made list of 2 things and 3 things which I want everyone to experience. Not everything is fit for everyone. I have a jobless cousin who beats her old grandmother for he is addicted to drugs, ironically his dad did the same to his mother till he lived. Obviously it was my opinion that 'everyone should experience these three things'. Sorry if I phrased that in a way that implied my opinion should be respected more than someone else's. I guess I can start putting 'IMO' in front of more of my posts, but it seems like it should be obvious on some level. What about this.. If you died and had the chance to talk to someone just getting ready to be born here there wouldn't be anything you'd want to say in the "Make sure you try the ______" kind of vein? Is there nothing from here that you would recommend? One or two things you'd make sure you experienced again? (Not sure what relevance your jobless cousin has to the discussion, I also have a jobless relative who uses drugs.. so there's some common ground?) No there is nothing I recommend that everyone should experience. There is nothing IMO also that I believe everyone should experience. Perhaps I do not take my self as seriously as you do. People find their own paths. Sure they may need suggestions and advice at times. If they come to me and specifically ask for recommendations then I might suggest something based on his or her particular case. But I do not carry some recommendation of experiences that I believe everyone should just follow. |
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Post by phludowin on Aug 5, 2018 16:39:17 GMT
Obviously other peoples experiences will not resonate with everyone. But I'm all for other people sharing things they think everyone should experience.. What's wrong with people doing that? I asked the other guy to share experiences he's had that make him think 'That makes life worth living, that comes close to approximating the purpose of human beings on this Earth'? You didn't formulate it like this. But ok, if you insist: The purpose of life is something scientists are still debating. In Dan Brown's book "Origin", a computer scientist claims that the purpose of life is to spread energy more efficiently. Maybe he's right. The worth of life is something individuals can figure out for themselves. My opinion: Life is worth living as long as you enjoy doing so. So: Find something you enjoy, and enjoy it. But I am not as arrogant to assume that this should be a universal measure for worth of life. Nor do I claim that the things I enjoy doing are things every human should do. Not even the three things I enjoy most. |
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Post by OldSamVimes on Aug 5, 2018 16:47:36 GMT
Obviously it was my opinion that 'everyone should experience these three things'. Sorry if I phrased that in a way that implied my opinion should be respected more than someone else's. I guess I can start putting 'IMO' in front of more of my posts, but it seems like it should be obvious on some level. What about this.. If you died and had the chance to talk to someone just getting ready to be born here there wouldn't be anything you'd want to say in the "Make sure you try the ______" kind of vein? Is there nothing from here that you would recommend? One or two things you'd make sure you experienced again? (Not sure what relevance your jobless cousin has to the discussion, I also have a jobless relative who uses drugs.. so there's some common ground?) No there is nothing I recommend that everyone should experience. There is nothing IMO also that I believe everyone should experience. Perhaps I do not take my self as seriously as you do. People find their own paths. Sure they may need suggestions and advice at times. If they come to me and specifically ask for recommendations then I might suggest something based on his or her particular case. But I do not carry some recommendation of experiences that I believe everyone should just follow. Wow, if you think I take myself seriously then you sure don't know me! LOL That's the last thing I hear from people. |
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Post by Aj_June on Aug 5, 2018 16:49:36 GMT
No there is nothing I recommend that everyone should experience. There is nothing IMO also that I believe everyone should experience. Perhaps I do not take my self as seriously as you do. People find their own paths. Sure they may need suggestions and advice at times. If they come to me and specifically ask for recommendations then I might suggest something based on his or her particular case. But I do not carry some recommendation of experiences that I believe everyone should just follow. Wow, if you think I take myself seriously then you sure don't know me! LOL That's the last thing I hear from people. Oh, Okay. The guy who believes his 3 personal experiences are something everyone should experience doesn't take himself too seriously. That's fine. |
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