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Post by ArArArchStanton on May 9, 2017 13:25:54 GMT
Looking at the movies, they are kind of like soap operas where not a whole lot important can happen in a movie because they have an infinite number down the road. When Superman the movie came out, it was like, maybe there will be another one, or 2, but that was about it. The finite nature of it makes it feel more stand alone and special. Not so with the Marvel films. I truly don't get your outlook on this.
You're saying you'd rather have few films out because??? it makes it more exciting? what?" Nothing can change?
A lot has happened in the MCU, just look at how much different the characters of Steve and Tony have become. Look at the steadily building cast. Look at the different franchises that keep coming out. Black panther will be the 9th different solo franchise, and Captain Marvel the 10th.
So I don't understand you saying you want less. Why in the world would you want less? This has been awesome, and continues to be.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on May 9, 2017 14:12:01 GMT
Marvel grinds out the films so fast, that they feel like they are rushed.
I mean, I admire the ambition, because it is quite a big undertaking, juggling all those films, but I think ultimately as someone said, they tend to be forgettable.
They are so manufactured, like a Pirates movie, with a certain number of jokes and spfx scenes and very forgettable music.
Not defending DC BTW-I think the Nolan films are overrated too.
I think the X-men films are "ok" but as I said I do not consider them traditional superhero stories so they avoid the type of things you expect from a superhero story like bright costumes and masks.
As Kirk said about tribbles, too much of anything isn't a good thing, and they have so many superhero films they become run of the mill.
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Post by formersamhmd on May 9, 2017 14:18:48 GMT
Marvel grinds out the films so fast, that they feel like they are rushed. I mean, I admire the ambition, because it is quite a big undertaking, juggling all those films, but I think ultimately as someone said, they tend to be forgettable. They are so manufactured, like a Pirates movie, with a certain number of jokes and spfx scenes and very forgettable music. Not defending DC BTW-I think the Nolan films are overrated too. I think the X-men films are "ok" but as I said I do not consider them traditional superhero stories so they avoid the type of things you expect from a superhero story like bright costumes and masks. Yeah, but the lack of costumes and stuff in X-Men is because the people making the movies are ashamed of the source material. It's no deeper than that. I mean really, go read the stuff Chris Claremont wrote in the 70s and 80s for the X-Men and it's the exact stuff X-Fans say they hate about the MCU! |
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Post by charzhino on May 9, 2017 17:40:18 GMT
No, the X-films just tell the same one story over and over again. And they go for that backwards "grounded" aesthetic that nearly destroyed CBMs, the aesthetic that appeals to people who dislike comics to begin with. Problem is, there are still plenty of people who are ashamed of comic books. And Nolan is overrated as well. The grounded approach isnt backwards, it's just more appealing to people over the age of 20. It didn't "nearly destroy" comic book movies, it saved them from obscurity single handedly. It's not about being ashamed, its about balance. |
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Post by formersamhmd on May 9, 2017 18:59:21 GMT
No, the X-films just tell the same one story over and over again. And they go for that backwards "grounded" aesthetic that nearly destroyed CBMs, the aesthetic that appeals to people who dislike comics to begin with. Problem is, there are still plenty of people who are ashamed of comic books. And Nolan is overrated as well. The grounded approach isnt backwards, it's just more appealing to people over the age of 20. It didn't "nearly destroy" comic book movies, it saved them from obscurity single handedly. It's not about being ashamed, its about balance. No, grounded is for people who are too ashamed of comic books to ever watch stuff like people in costumes or aliens or magic.
People that flaky and dishonest don't deserve any Comic Book Movies.
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Post by DC-Fan on May 9, 2017 19:10:38 GMT
Marvel grinds out the films so fast, that they feel like they are rushed. they tend to be forgettable. They are so manufactured, like a Pirates movie, with a certain number of jokes and spfx scenes and very forgettable music. Agreed. |
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on May 9, 2017 20:15:49 GMT
They blow some really neat spfx sequences.
A floating city, a net of spaceships in the sky, the most unforgivable is the Hulk vs Iron Man fight. They manage to make it pedestrian, unlike the Robocop vs Ed 209 fight.
FX noise.
I like robots, but they really overdose with the Ultron robots to the point who cares?
If they slowed things down, and took some more time, and eliminated a number of jokes.
I can't take a villain seriously who is constantly making one liners.
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Post by formersamhmd on May 9, 2017 21:16:29 GMT
They blow some really neat spfx sequences. A floating city, a net of spaceships in the sky, the most unforgivable is the Hulk vs Iron Man fight. They manage to make it pedestrian, unlike the Robocop vs Ed 209 fight. FX noise. I like robots, but they really overdose with the Ultron robots to the point who cares? If they slowed things down, and took some more time, and eliminated a number of jokes. I can't take a villain seriously who is constantly making one liners. You must've hated Gene Hackman's Lex Luthor. |
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on May 9, 2017 21:28:54 GMT
Nope. I think they had a little too much humor but for the most part they did a great job with him-especially when he takes out the kryptonite and everything turns deadly serious. In a Marvel film the only time where it successfully achieved that was Iron Man when his heart gives out and Jeff Bridges is gloating over him.
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Post by twothousandonemark on May 9, 2017 23:12:02 GMT
Once RDJ retires, DC will surely bring back a friendly neighbourhood Superman to lead a reboot of their universe.
Hell, maybe we even get that with JL.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2017 6:36:54 GMT
Ummm.....You do realise how many years Superman went without movies and despite that he is still the biggest selling superhero of all time with sales over 600 million? Batman is the second biggest selling superhero with sales over 460 million and Spider-Man comes in at third with over 360 million copies sold worldwide so no, regardless of the success of the current DC movies I don't see the two biggest selling superheroes of all time becoming irrelevant. In fact, in another decade this whole superhero movie craze is more likely to crash and burn and become irrelevant like the Action hero craze of the 90s with people getting sick of the superhero genre.
That's true, except at that point there wasn't the overwhelming presence of the MCU clearly dominating the DC brand.
On top of that, plenty of biggest selling brands of all time no longer exist, so yes, things can become irrelevant, but I find your comment there especially odd as in the very next sentence you say the entire genre is going to become irrelevant. So which is it?
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Post by ArArArchStanton on May 10, 2017 13:13:21 GMT
That's true, except at that point there wasn't the overwhelming presence of the MCU clearly dominating the DC brand.
On top of that, plenty of biggest selling brands of all time no longer exist, so yes, things can become irrelevant, but I find your comment there especially odd as in the very next sentence you say the entire genre is going to become irrelevant. So which is it?
This is the thing I think you are confusing. When something has been around for 80 years, it has been around for the entire lives of most people, and so those people, like you, tend to start thinking those things could never go away. Of course they can. Just go talk to your grandparents about things that were really popular in the 30's or 40's that they never thought would ever go away. All it takes is people being more interested in other things. |
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Post by formersamhmd on May 10, 2017 13:36:01 GMT
Plus the MCU's had a major impact on how movie franchises are made now, that legacy will stick around for a long time especially seeing how successful and sustainable it's proven to be.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on May 10, 2017 14:30:17 GMT
Marvel grinds out the films so fast, that they feel like they are rushed. I mean, I admire the ambition, because it is quite a big undertaking, juggling all those films, but I think ultimately as someone said, they tend to be forgettable. They are so manufactured, like a Pirates movie, with a certain number of jokes and spfx scenes and very forgettable music. Not defending DC BTW-I think the Nolan films are overrated too. I think the X-men films are "ok" but as I said I do not consider them traditional superhero stories so they avoid the type of things you expect from a superhero story like bright costumes and masks. As Kirk said about tribbles, too much of anything isn't a good thing, and they have so many superhero films they become run of the mill. I agree with every fucking syllable of this. Thank you for voicing it. This is my opinion on all three of these franchises, for real. Man, I have CMB fatigue so hard, because as a lifelong comic fan I drank deeply from those earliest of entries, the stuff circa Spider-Man (2002). I was honestly sick of comic book movies by the time I saw Iron Man (2008) and would've been fine never seeing another after The Avengers (2012). |
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Post by coldenhaulfield on May 10, 2017 14:42:27 GMT
Marvel grinds out the films so fast, that they feel like they are rushed. I mean, I admire the ambition, because it is quite a big undertaking, juggling all those films, but I think ultimately as someone said, they tend to be forgettable. They are so manufactured, like a Pirates movie, with a certain number of jokes and spfx scenes and very forgettable music. Not defending DC BTW-I think the Nolan films are overrated too. I think the X-men films are "ok" but as I said I do not consider them traditional superhero stories so they avoid the type of things you expect from a superhero story like bright costumes and masks. Yeah, but the lack of costumes and stuff in X-Men is because the people making the movies are ashamed of the source material. It's no deeper than that. Wrong: it's not even as deep as that. The people who made the decision to make the X-films look a certain way were obviously marketing hacks in the late-90s who presumably had (a) little to no knowledge of or affection for the source material and (b) were being paid to create the movie in such a way as to maximize its appeal to mainstream audiences of its time so as to make Fox the most money it could get out of its investment in the X-Men rights/IP. THAT'S IT. There was no philosophical consideration vis-a-vis "shame" or "pride" or any of that. The film came out in July 2000, and The Matrix came out in March 1999. It was about capitalizing on the aesthetic of the time in -- if anything -- a shame less attempt to rake in the most dough available in a genre that wasn't popular at the time. The rest of the movies just followed suit because they continue(d) to make money. It's called the movie business, dude. That's all. You should drop the "ashamed" from your standard shtick on account of it makes you look like a fanboy goofball. |
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Post by DC-Fan on May 10, 2017 15:24:37 GMT
People are often confusing franchise success with character popularity. DC characters will stay on forever because of their constant appearance from the last century to the current DCEU era Marvel characters, however, will have shorter lifespan. Agreed. Excellent post! Someone made this excellent point on another thread that: DC goes more for the "Mythic" or "Archetypal" way of doing things.
Marvel is more about making people, not myths.I would have to agree with that. That's why DC is much better than Marvel. Because DC's characters and stories are at a much grander and mythological level. Those are the kind of characters and stories that survive the test of time. Like the stories of the Trojan War and the stories of King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table. Legendary stories that will be remembered forever. Superman and Batman will be remembered forever just like King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table will be remembered forever. It's MCU characters like Ant-Man, Black Panther, Black Widow, Captain America, Captain Marvel, Doctor Strange, Hawkeye, Hulk, Iron Man, Nick Fury, and Thor who will all fade into irrelevance. MCU is just a fad that will be forgotten a generation from now, just like how people of this generation have forgotten about Disco (which was a fad in the 1970s). But the DCEU will have a lasting impact and be remembered forever. |
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Post by formersamhmd on May 10, 2017 16:22:23 GMT
Yeah, but the lack of costumes and stuff in X-Men is because the people making the movies are ashamed of the source material. It's no deeper than that. Wrong: it's not even as deep as that. The people who made the decision to make the X-films look a certain way were obviously marketing hacks in the late-90s who presumably had (a) little to no knowledge of or affection for the source material and (b) were being paid to create the movie in such a way as to maximize its appeal to mainstream audiences of its time so as to make Fox the most money it could get out of its investment in the X-Men rights/IP. THAT'S IT. There was no philosophical consideration vis-a-vis "shame" or "pride" or any of that. The film came out in July 2000, and The Matrix came out in March 1999. It was about capitalizing on the aesthetic of the time in -- if anything -- a shame less attempt to rake in the most dough available in a genre that wasn't popular at the time. The rest of the movies just followed suit because they continue(d) to make money. It's called the movie business, dude. That's all. You should drop the "ashamed" from your standard shtick on account of it makes you look like a fanboy goofball. If any of that were true, they'd have ditched the Matrix Knock-off outfits a decade ago. They maintain them because the people in charge just dislike the source material and don't want to do anything true to the comics. Any discussion with Singer will show that. |
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on May 10, 2017 16:46:54 GMT
I have seen them up to Avengers 2 but unlike the old days, when I used to rush to watch every superhero film (and tv show) under the sun, now, I put them off.
I don't think I could watch every movie and especially every tie-in tv show even if I wanted to given how many there are.
Personally I would have preferred they did a Marvel tv series with rotating characters every week, and put all their resources into that--instead of the myriad of movies and shows.
That way they could have a permanent cast for a number of years, and enough episode variety so you could have a specific character Captain America, Black panther etc doing different things and occasionally crossing over. Would have been more suspenseful too probably.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on May 10, 2017 17:50:49 GMT
Wrong: it's not even as deep as that. The people who made the decision to make the X-films look a certain way were obviously marketing hacks in the late-90s who presumably had (a) little to no knowledge of or affection for the source material and (b) were being paid to create the movie in such a way as to maximize its appeal to mainstream audiences of its time so as to make Fox the most money it could get out of its investment in the X-Men rights/IP. THAT'S IT. There was no philosophical consideration vis-a-vis "shame" or "pride" or any of that. The film came out in July 2000, and The Matrix came out in March 1999. It was about capitalizing on the aesthetic of the time in -- if anything -- a shame less attempt to rake in the most dough available in a genre that wasn't popular at the time. The rest of the movies just followed suit because they continue(d) to make money. It's called the movie business, dude. That's all. You should drop the "ashamed" from your standard shtick on account of it makes you look like a fanboy goofball. If any of that were true, they'd have ditched the Matrix Knock-off outfits a decade ago. They maintain them because the people in charge just dislike the source material and don't want to do anything true to the comics. Any discussion with Singer will show that. Then cite one. |
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Post by coldenhaulfield on May 10, 2017 17:53:12 GMT
I have seen them up to Avengers 2 but unlike the old days, when I used to rush to watch every superhero film (and tv show) under the sun, now, I put them off. I don't think I could watch every movie and especially every tie-in tv show even if I wanted to given how many there are. Personally I would have preferred they did a Marvel tv series with rotating characters every week, and put all their resources into that--instead of the myriad of movies and shows. That way they could have a permanent cast for a number of years, and enough episode variety so you could have a specific character Captain America, Black panther etc doing different things and occasionally crossing over. Would have been more suspenseful too probably. This is the biggest problem with the MCU and, frankly, Marvel's business model for decades. If I liked Avengers and want to see Avengers 2 and fully appreciate it I'm essentially blackmailed by Disney to see six other movies I've no interest in, so fuck it. |
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