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Post by DC-Fan on Dec 10, 2019 22:25:55 GMT
Wow The Avengers only have two people that can kill an enormous spaceship in seconds? They really are screwed! Wow! You missed scabab's point entirely. It's not that the Avengers have 2 people that can kill an enormous spaceship. It's that the Avengers have only 2 people who could survive and wouldn't be killed off by the enormous spaceships and weapons that the Empire has. There was never any indication Vader or Palpatine are capable of the astral projection Luke used. Except for the fact that Luke used the Force to astral project and both Vader and Palpatine are pretty advanced and powerful in their use of the Force. Did you not see the movies? The Avengers aren't 'weak-minded' so the Jedi mind trick won't work on them Except for Wanda, who was manipulated by Ultron into fighting the Avengers. And except for Hulk, who went on a rampage and destroyed a city in Africa. Actually, most of the Avengers are weak-minded and can be controlled with the Jedi mind trick.
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Post by poutinep on Dec 10, 2019 22:38:08 GMT
good grief you suck at using the forum code here. Aren't you supposed to be a software engineer or something? You can't even use a forum's simple code to properly quote people? It's not that the Avengers have 2 people that can kill an enormous spaceship. Danvers destroyed the most advanced platform of destruction in the entire galaxy...in a matter of seconds. Its weapons didn't even slow her down.
She could single-handedly defeat the entire Empire and every Force user we've ever heard of on an empty stomach while suffering from menstrual cramps.
Except for the fact that Luke used the Force to astral project and both Vader and Palpatine are pretty advanced and powerful in their use of the Force. Did you not see the movies? And by the way, did you notice that Luke fucking DIED right after he used that power?
Are you seriously saying Vader/Palpatine can project their image all willy-nilly without dying even though we never saw nor heard of anyone doing it except for this one fucking Jedi master that died because of it? Actually yeah that's pretty much on par with all your dumb arguments. LOL.
Except for Wanda, who was manipulated by Ultron into fighting the Avengers. And except for Hulk, who went on a rampage and destroyed a city in Africa. Actually, most of the Avengers are weak-minded and can be controlled with the Jedi mind trick. Wanda was manipulated by Ultron in an emotional manner, not super powers. She then overcame that maipulation.
Wanda's mind trick is not the Jedi mind trick. It was never given the qualifier that it only works on weak-minded people in the MCU's canon.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2019 23:09:32 GMT
good grief you suck at using the forum code here. Aren't you supposed to be a software engineer or something? You can't even use a forum's simple code to properly quote people? It's not that the Avengers have 2 people that can kill an enormous spaceship. Danvers destroyed the most advanced platform of destruction in the entire galaxy...in a matter of seconds. Its weapons didn't even slow her down.
She could single-handedly defeat the entire Empire and every Force user we've ever heard of on an empty stomach while suffering from menstrual cramps.
Except for the fact that Luke used the Force to astral project and both Vader and Palpatine are pretty advanced and powerful in their use of the Force. Did you not see the movies? And by the way, did you notice that Luke fucking DIED right after he used that power?
Are you seriously saying Vader/Palpatine can project their image all willy-nilly without dying even though we never saw nor heard of anyone doing it except for this one fucking Jedi master that died because of it? Actually yeah that's pretty much on par with all your dumb arguments. LOL.
I'm sort of torn though still. The empire has a long reach and planet destroying capabilities. They'd be wise to stay on the offensive from a distance, which they can. In one movie they destroyed 5 planets from who knows how many systems between. If they only hovered above earth, they'd still be too far away for the majority of the avengers to act.
The biggest threat I can tell is Captain Marvel. My strategy would be to bombard the planet so heavily that she'd have no choice but to be on the planet and whisk people out of harm's way. Thor, I'm not sure. I'm not sure how limber he is in space. It's possible his near indestructible quasi-immortality stops him just short of dying in space like everyone else. If it were Thor v the Empire he might win on outlasting them all on age alone.
I don't know if I trust the empire to crack the science behind Captain Marvel's powers, but the Enterprise could.
Strategy makes all the difference in the world. If the Empire tries to invade then they're playing into the avenger's hands by feeding them like minions in League of Legends. If the empire attacks from far enough away, the most advanced tech on earth might not detect it until it's too close. Only bet against that if for Dr. Strange or Wong to open a portal at the penultimate second to throw it back at the ship/planet of origin. If he's around.
I'd like to say they're in trouble when Doctor Who shows up to set things right.
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Post by Skaathar on Dec 11, 2019 0:08:18 GMT
I'm sort of torn though still. The empire has a long reach and planet destroying capabilities. They'd be wise to stay on the offensive from a distance, which they can. In one movie they destroyed 5 planets from who knows how many systems between. If they only hovered above earth, they'd still be too far away for the majority of the avengers to act.
The biggest threat I can tell is Captain Marvel. My strategy would be to bombard the planet so heavily that she'd have no choice but to be on the planet and whisk people out of harm's way. Thor, I'm not sure. I'm not sure how limber he is in space. It's possible his near indestructible quasi-immortality stops him just short of dying in space like everyone else. If it were Thor v the Empire he might win on outlasting them all on age alone.
I don't know if I trust the empire to crack the science behind Captain Marvel's powers, but the Enterprise could.
Strategy makes all the difference in the world. If the Empire tries to invade then they're playing into the avenger's hands by feeding them like minions in League of Legends. If the empire attacks from far enough away, the most advanced tech on earth might not detect it until it's too close. Only bet against that if for Dr. Strange or Wong to open a portal at the penultimate second to throw it back at the ship/planet of origin. If he's around.
I'd like to say they're in trouble when Doctor Who shows up to set things right.
Thor has feats of destroying some of Thanos's ships as well. I don't think he flies quite as agile or as fast as Captain Marvel but he has more firepower. As for the Empire, when did they destroy planets without use of a Deathstar?
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Post by scabab on Dec 11, 2019 0:14:09 GMT
I don't recall any force-power feats from Vader that indicates he can crush IM's suit or send missiles back at him either. He'd be able to send the missiles back no problem, they wouldn't exactly be heavy coming from Iron Man. All he'd do is stop them in their tracks in mid air and use the force to throw them back at him. Like when the Emperor fought Yoda and threw all those large seating arrangements. Yoda even stopped one and threw it back, same principle but they'd be lighter. It would depend if the force can grip more tightly than a vibranium hand. They do better things outside the movies than in them. Wow The Avengers only have two people that can kill an enormous spaceship in seconds? They really are screwed! Which was one ship that wasn't nearly as big as a Star Destroyer. That's very different from going up against tens of thousands that are far larger.
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Post by Skaathar on Dec 11, 2019 0:26:28 GMT
I don't recall any force-power feats from Vader that indicates he can crush IM's suit or send missiles back at him either. He'd be able to send the missiles back no problem, they wouldn't exactly be heavy coming from Iron Man. All he'd do is stop them in their tracks in mid air and use the force to throw them back at him. Like when the Emperor fought Yoda and threw all those large seating arrangements. Yoda even stopped one and threw it back, same principle but they'd be lighter. It would depend if the force can grip more tightly than a vibranium hand. They do better things outside the movies than in them. Those missiles are flying far faster and hitting which much more force than a few thrown large chairs though. I also don't want to assume Vader can replicate Sidius' or Yoda's powers since he doesn't have feats of doing so (he doesn't have force lightning for example). It's also not just matching the grip of a vibranium hand. It's about matching the grip strength of Ultron, and I don't recall Vader showcasing force-powers strong enough to match Ultron's strength.
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Post by poutinep on Dec 11, 2019 0:40:56 GMT
I don't recall any force-power feats from Vader that indicates he can crush IM's suit or send missiles back at him either. He'd be able to send the missiles back no problem, they wouldn't exactly be heavy coming from Iron Man. All he'd do is stop them in their tracks in mid air and use the force to throw them back at him. Like when the Emperor fought Yoda and threw all those large seating arrangements. Yoda even stopped one and threw it back, same principle but they'd be lighter. It would depend if the force can grip more tightly than a vibranium hand. They do better things outside the movies than in them. Wow The Avengers only have two people that can kill an enormous spaceship in seconds? They really are screwed! Which was one ship that wasn't nearly as big as a Star Destroyer. That's very different from going up against tens of thousands that are far larger. Does it really matter how big they are or how many they are?
She went through the Sanctuary II like a hot razor blade through warm butter, it took under 3 seconds. its weapons were immediately offline. So how long to disable a star destroyer? 4 seconds? 5? The point is, they can't stop her.
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Post by scabab on Dec 11, 2019 1:08:08 GMT
Those missiles are flying far faster and hitting which much more force than a few thrown large chairs though. He stopped a bunch of a laser blasts from Han Solos gun so the speed ain't a problem. Well Force Lightning is a completely separate ability but the ability to move and throw things using the Force would surely be something anyone can do. He was throwing things at Luke. He threw a bunch of machine parts at some aliens too. I don't think there was anything in the movies. There might be something in the comics or cartoons. Does it really matter how big they are or how many they are? Unless she has an infinite amount of stamina then of course. She'd also be under fire from tens of thousands of star cruisers and she's not invincible. Those Star Destroyers also have shields unlike Thanos' ship.
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Post by poutinep on Dec 11, 2019 1:50:48 GMT
Does it really matter how big they are or how many they are? Unless she has an infinite amount of stamina then of course. She'd also be under fire from tens of thousands of star cruisers and she's not invincible. Those Star Destroyers also have shields unlike Thanos' ship. She mentions protecting many other planets in the universe so I doubt stamina is a big problem, she sounds pretty busy.
But you raise a question; is this a single battle or is this a campaign? Can you fit tens of thousands of star destroyers in one battle? Can they all target her at once? Did it not have shields? The Dark Aster had shields...seems like The Sanctuary II would have at least what The Dark Aster had. I don't see why shields would slow her much.
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Post by scabab on Dec 11, 2019 1:58:46 GMT
But you raise a question; is this a single battle or is this a campaign? Well the OP didn't say. Just seeing as she mentioned the line up from Endgame I was picturing the same circumstances as that. Swap out Thanos for Darth Vader and the Emperor, swap out the Outriders for Stormtroopers, swap out the Leviathans for Walkers and swap out the Sanctuary for Star Destroyers and that was what I figured we were getting at.
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Post by DC-Fan on Dec 11, 2019 2:47:02 GMT
I don't recall any force-power feats from Vader that indicates he can crush IM's suit or send missiles back at him either. He'd be able to send the missiles back no problem, they wouldn't exactly be heavy coming from Iron Man. All he'd do is stop them in their tracks in mid air and use the force to throw them back at him. Like when the Emperor fought Yoda and threw all those large seating arrangements. Yoda even stopped one and threw it back, same principle but they'd be lighter. It would depend if the force can grip more tightly than a vibranium hand. They do better things outside the movies than in them. Wow The Avengers only have two people that can kill an enormous spaceship in seconds? They really are screwed! Which was one ship that wasn't nearly as big as a Star Destroyer. That's very different from going up against tens of thousands that are far larger. Excellent points!
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Post by DC-Fan on Dec 11, 2019 2:53:39 GMT
Those missiles are flying far faster and hitting which much more force than a few thrown large chairs though. He stopped a bunch of a laser blasts from Han Solos gun so the speed ain't a problem. Yep, unlike MCU Quicksilver (who's the only speedster that's too slow to pick a bullet out of the air), Jedi Knights are quick enough to be able to use a light saber to deflect laser blasts from guns at close range so speed wouldn't be a problem for a skilled and powerful Jedi like Vader. the ability to move and throw things using the Force would surely be something anyone can do. Yep, even Rey can move objects using the Force. Does it really matter how big they are or how many they are? Unless she has an infinite amount of stamina then of course. She'd also be under fire from tens of thousands of star cruisers and she's not invincible. Those Star Destroyers also have shields unlike Thanos' ship. Excellent point!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2019 6:32:12 GMT
I'm sort of torn though still. The empire has a long reach and planet destroying capabilities. They'd be wise to stay on the offensive from a distance, which they can. In one movie they destroyed 5 planets from who knows how many systems between. If they only hovered above earth, they'd still be too far away for the majority of the avengers to act.
The biggest threat I can tell is Captain Marvel. My strategy would be to bombard the planet so heavily that she'd have no choice but to be on the planet and whisk people out of harm's way. Thor, I'm not sure. I'm not sure how limber he is in space. It's possible his near indestructible quasi-immortality stops him just short of dying in space like everyone else. If it were Thor v the Empire he might win on outlasting them all on age alone.
I don't know if I trust the empire to crack the science behind Captain Marvel's powers, but the Enterprise could.
Strategy makes all the difference in the world. If the Empire tries to invade then they're playing into the avenger's hands by feeding them like minions in League of Legends. If the empire attacks from far enough away, the most advanced tech on earth might not detect it until it's too close. Only bet against that if for Dr. Strange or Wong to open a portal at the penultimate second to throw it back at the ship/planet of origin. If he's around.
I'd like to say they're in trouble when Doctor Who shows up to set things right.
Thor has feats of destroying some of Thanos's ships as well. I don't think he flies quite as agile or as fast as Captain Marvel but he has more firepower. As for the Empire, when did they destroy planets without use of a Deathstar? The Force Awakens.
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Post by sostie on Dec 11, 2019 10:13:45 GMT
Those missiles are flying far faster and hitting which much more force than a few thrown large chairs though. He stopped a bunch of a laser blasts from Han Solos gun so the speed ain't a problem. It wasn't the speed of the laser he had to match to stop it, but the speed of Solo's draw of the gun.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Dec 11, 2019 15:04:18 GMT
Those missiles are flying far faster and hitting which much more force than a few thrown large chairs though. He stopped a bunch of a laser blasts from Han Solos gun so the speed ain't a problem. Well Force Lightning is a completely separate ability but the ability to move and throw things using the Force would surely be something anyone can do. He was throwing things at Luke. He threw a bunch of machine parts at some aliens too. I don't think there was anything in the movies. There might be something in the comics or cartoons. Does it really matter how big they are or how many they are? Unless she has an infinite amount of stamina then of course. She'd also be under fire from tens of thousands of star cruisers and she's not invincible. Those Star Destroyers also have shields unlike Thanos' ship. I already explained how the Avengers could easily win. You had no argument, so you moved on to someone else. Forget the sorcerers, let's say they're mopping up the walkers and ground troops. Thor uses the Bifrost to get into a Super Star Destroyer (or captain Marvel just punches her way in, whatever), the Avengers take control of the bridge and that's that. Rinse, repeat. All of this nonsense about how there are too many ships to overcome is ignoring the reality of the situation. Star Destroyers can't shoot at what they can't see. Once the heroes have seized a Super Star Destroyer and a few other ships, I don't know what the rest of the fleet is going to do. They don't know who's on their side, they don't know what to fire upon, and now holy shit heroes just appeared on their bridge, too. There could be a billion stormtroopers and hundreds of thousands of walkers and none of them would be able to prevent this from happening. Once the fleet is destroyed, the ground forces are sitting ducks. Explain to me how the empire would combat this scenario. Tell me how the 25,000 Star Destroyers would come about and start firing on the Super Star Destroyer that was just knocked out of commission before the heroes moved onto the next one. The lack of imagination in this thread is staggering. Everyone is just basing their argument on the assumption it would be a battlefield brawl because that's how it played out in the movie. There are no writers here playing to an audience. I'm talking about tactics meant to win the battle, not look good on screen. Hell, Wanda could make a Super Star Destroyer captain go crazy, or just destroy the bridge herself in seconds. I wonder what would happen if Tony hacked their communication channels and wreaked havoc? How about Ant-Man meddling with Star Destroyer artillery? Mantis putting the Grand Admiral to sleep as the fleet descends into chaos awaiting orders? I wonder how many Star Destroyers would continue the fight once a few of them were commandeered and performed a hyperdrive kamikaze maneuver like in TLJ? (Since you insist they can't teleport into a place they don't know, the sorcerers are shrunk down with Ant-Man & Wasp to come aboard with Captain Marvel or Thor. Take the bridge, lock onto another part of the fleet and teleport out as you hit the hyperdrive.) There are a hundred different ways the heroes could take control of the most important vessels in the fleet, and from there it's all over. The stormtroopers on the ground would be scratching their asses watching the fireworks in orbit until the last ship came crashing down or hyperjumped the hell out of there. I'm confident they'd surrender once Captain Marvel took the heads off 50 AT-ATs in a single flyby.
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Post by scabab on Dec 11, 2019 16:49:25 GMT
I already explained how the Avengers could easily win. You had no argument, so you moved on to someone else. Forget the sorcerers, let's say they're mopping up the walkers and ground troops. In your own scenario that you came up with. Why are we now all of a sudden forgetting the sorcerers? Is it because I explained that your idea of them just teleporting everyone from ship to ship is wrong with what had been established? Is that why? These Sorcerers who couldn't mop up the Outriders are somehow going to be able to mop up the Walkers and Stormtroopers? Are you assuming that they can just open portals out all across the battlefield and they'll just fall through? Because whenever they've been shown to open one it's been while they've been standing a few feet away from it. They'd just been shot at from a distance or shot from above. That's your scenario, I could come up with a completely different scenario all together. Without the OP saying what the actual scenario is then it can go any multitude of ways. Maybe the whole Avengers are standing around in Avengers HQ when all of a sudden 25,000 Star Destroyers just appear within vicinity and light the place up like Thanos' ship and killed them all before they knew what hit them.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Dec 11, 2019 16:53:11 GMT
I already explained how the Avengers could easily win. You had no argument, so you moved on to someone else. Forget the sorcerers, let's say they're mopping up the walkers and ground troops. In your own scenario that you came up with. Why are we now all of a sudden forgetting the sorcerers? Is it because I explained that your idea of them just teleporting everyone from ship to ship is wrong with what had been established? Is that why? These Sorcerers who couldn't mop up the Outriders are somehow going to be able to mop up the Walkers and Stormtroopers? Are you assuming that they can just open portals out all across the battlefield and they'll just fall through? Because whenever they've been shown to open one it's been while they've been standing a few feet away from it. They'd just been shot at from a distance or shot from above. That's your scenario, I could come up with a completely different scenario all together. Without the OP saying what the actual scenario is then it can go any multitude of ways. Maybe the whole Avengers are standing around in Avengers HQ when all of a sudden 25,000 Star Destroyers just appear within vicinity and light the place up like Thanos' ship and killed them all before they knew what hit them. If you actually read my post I explained how you could use them. I said forget about them in the first scenario since you weakly tried to explain them away. The OP set up the scenario. Sure, if you want to setup some kind of sneak attack by 25,000 Star Destroyers while the Avengers slept, I guess the Empire has a shot.
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Post by Groovy Rachel on Dec 11, 2019 17:07:21 GMT
I should have probably explained the situation huh?
Ok just the same as in Endgame, the same location, everyone has just come out of the portals except Captain Marvel is there from the start.
The Galactic Empire is already there. Emperor Palpatine and Darth Vader are on the battlefield along with all the Stormtroopers and ground vehicles.
The Aeriel vehicles like the Tie Fighters are in the sky and the Star Destroyers are on the edge of Earth's Atmosphere.
No time to prepare, just a big all out battle, again like Endgame.
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Post by Skaathar on Dec 11, 2019 17:31:01 GMT
I should have probably explained the situation huh? Ok just the same as in Endgame, the same location, everyone has just come out of the portals except Captain Marvel is there from the start. The Galactic Empire is already there. Emperor Palpatine and Darth Vader are on the battlefield along with all the Stormtroopers and ground vehicles. The Aeriel vehicles like the Tie Fighters are in the sky and the Star Destroyers are on the edge of Earth's Atmosphere. No time to prepare, just a big all out battle, again like Endgame. Do they have knowledge on the powers/technology of each other or is this like the first time the opposing sides are meeting?
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Dec 11, 2019 17:33:10 GMT
I should have probably explained the situation huh? Ok just the same as in Endgame, the same location, everyone has just come out of the portals except Captain Marvel is there from the start. The Galactic Empire is already there. Emperor Palpatine and Darth Vader are on the battlefield along with all the Stormtroopers and ground vehicles. The Aeriel vehicles like the Tie Fighters are in the sky and the Star Destroyers are on the edge of Earth's Atmosphere. No time to prepare, just a big all out battle, again like Endgame. You already clarified.
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