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Post by damngumby on Dec 25, 2019 17:20:25 GMT
One would think that it would be an impossible task, considering the vast size of the Galactic Empire armed forces. Thousands of war ships, hundreds of thousands of troopers. They would simply overwhelm the handful of Avengers by shear numbers alone. A Galactic Empire victory would be inevitable, though the Avengers would certainly make them pay for it dearly.
But, I see that some are less certain the Empire would have such an easy time of it. They feel the need to exaggerate the powers of Darth Vader (Isn't he dead?) in an attempt to give the Empire an edge over the Avengers.
... That's quite the complement to the Avengers! ... and a clear indication that the Avengers are up to the task.
I stand corrected.
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Post by ThatGuy on Dec 25, 2019 19:55:00 GMT
Gi-Ant-man tore the wing off of an airplane. Pushing over or tripping AT-ATs and AT-STs would be no problem. Hulk would crush the "heads" of them easily just by jumping from one to the other. Captain Marvel. Gi-Ant-man and Hulk and most of the Avengers can't fly in space. The Empire's planet-destroying warships can just fire their weapons from space and wipe out most of the Avengers. They do have means to get into space. They also have wizards that can open portals to Star Destroyers. Also, the Empire isn't like Thanos. They won't fire down on their own men. Especially when most of them are on that planet. So the Empire won't go all scorched earth. And if they were firing down on the planet they wouldn't for long with Captain Marvel destroying their ships. They'd be too busy trying to kill her.
Also, what planet destroying warships? Star Destroyers? It's kind of established in A New Hope that it'd take a whole lot of ships with a lot of firepower to be considered "planet destroying."
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Post by DC-Fan on Dec 25, 2019 20:09:43 GMT
Gi-Ant-man and Hulk and most of the Avengers can't fly in space. The Empire's planet-destroying warships can just fire their weapons from space and wipe out most of the Avengers. the Empire isn't like Thanos. They won't fire down on their own men Especially when most of them are on that planet. The Stormtroopers don't have to go down to the planet. The Empire's warships can destroy the Earth or any other planet without sending a single Stormtrooper down to the planet. if they were firing down on the planet they wouldn't for long with Captain Marvel destroying their ships. They'd be too busy trying to kill her. The Empire has to many warships for Captain Marvel. All it takes is a single shot from a single warship to destroy Earth. So while several warships are keeping Captain Marvel busy, another warship can fire the shot that destroys Earth. Also, what planet destroying warships? Star Destroyers? It's kind of established in A New Hope that it'd take a whole lot of ships with a lot of firepower to be considered "planet destroying." Oh, you haven't seen The Rise of Skywalker yet. After you watch The Rise of Skywalker, it'll be pretty clear that the Empire would destroy Earth and most of the Avengers in just a few minutes.
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Post by ThatGuy on Dec 25, 2019 20:39:17 GMT
One would think that it would be an impossible task, considering the vast size of the Galactic Empire armed forces. Thousands of war ships, hundreds of thousands of troopers. They would simply overwhelm the handful of Avengers by shear numbers alone. A Galactic Empire victory would be inevitable, though the Avengers would certainly make them pay for it dearly. But, I see that some are less certain the Empire would have such an easy time of it. They feel the need to exaggerate the powers of Darth Vader (Isn't he dead?) in an attempt to give the Empire an edge over the Avengers. ... That's quite the complement to the Avengers! ... and a clear indication that the Avengers are up to the task. I stand corrected. This is seldom done. Like they'd bring out the Phoenix and Magneto to take out the Avengers.
As for Darth Vader being dead. I think they mean the Empire at around Return of the Jedi. But I think even then Vader gets overwhelmed and breathing hard. Look how Luke took him out. The Sith are powerful, but only when you think about who they are up against in their universe. If Wanda was a Force user from the Star Wars universe, she'd be far more powerful than the Force users we have seen (besides anything shown in EP9, haven't seen it yet). Can the Force hold back/lift Mjolnir? I can see Thor just throwing that through a bunch of Stormtroopers and right at Vader's chest. Can Force lightning even hurt him? He's not Superman with a weakness to "magic".
But the thing about this is (general question not aimed at you): Why create a versus scenario where the Avengers has to fight the entire Empire in one place complete with Star Destroyers in space? I can see the scenario being that the Empire took over the MCU, can the Avengers overcome it or would they fail and die in the end?
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Post by ThatGuy on Dec 25, 2019 20:42:18 GMT
the Empire isn't like Thanos. They won't fire down on their own men Especially when most of them are on that planet. The Stormtroopers don't have to go down to the planet. The Empire's warships can destroy the Earth or any other planet without sending a single Stormtrooper down to the planet. if they were firing down on the planet they wouldn't for long with Captain Marvel destroying their ships. They'd be too busy trying to kill her. The Empire has to many warships for Captain Marvel. All it takes is a single shot from a single warship to destroy Earth. So while several warships are keeping Captain Marvel busy, another warship can fire the shot that destroys Earth. Also, what planet destroying warships? Star Destroyers? It's kind of established in A New Hope that it'd take a whole lot of ships with a lot of firepower to be considered "planet destroying." Oh, you haven't seen The Rise of Skywalker yet. After you watch The Rise of Skywalker, it'll be pretty clear that the Empire would destroy Earth and most of the Avengers in just a few minutes. So you are saying that Captain Marvel will be alone surrounded by scrapped Imperial ships and chunks of Earth. Avengers still win.
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Post by DC-Fan on Dec 25, 2019 20:50:36 GMT
The Stormtroopers don't have to go down to the planet. The Empire's warships can destroy the Earth or any other planet without sending a single Stormtrooper down to the planet. The Empire has to many warships for Captain Marvel. All it takes is a single shot from a single warship to destroy Earth. So while several warships are keeping Captain Marvel busy, another warship can fire the shot that destroys Earth. Oh, you haven't seen The Rise of Skywalker yet. After you watch The Rise of Skywalker, it'll be pretty clear that the Empire would destroy Earth and most of the Avengers in just a few minutes. So you are saying that Captain Marvel will be alone surrounded by scrapped Imperial ships and chunks of Earth. Avengers still win. So you consider Earth being completely destroyed and most of the Avengers being wiped out a "win" for the Avengers?
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Post by ThatGuy on Dec 25, 2019 23:21:54 GMT
So you are saying that Captain Marvel will be alone surrounded by scrapped Imperial ships and chunks of Earth. Avengers still win. So you consider Earth being completely destroyed and most of the Avengers being wiped out a "win" for the Avengers? History is written by the winner. If it's only Captain Marvel alive then the winner is...
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Post by damngumby on Dec 26, 2019 0:12:28 GMT
But I think even then Vader gets overwhelmed and breathing hard. Look how Luke took him out. Good point. Luke never actually physically injured Vader, he just exhausted him after a short fight. I'm not even entirely sure what the cause of death was ... heart attack? Vader did look feeble and overweight when the helmet was removed. Clearly, he would have been no match against almost any of the Avengers. Another good point. It is rather silly to concoct a scenario where the Empire just decides on a whim to attack the Earth by throwing everything they had against the planet in one decisive battle. Obviously, there would be a period of time when relations between Earth and the Empire would be on the decline, giving the Avengers plenty of time to preemptively thwart any hostile plans against the Earth. With their variety of superpowers, the Empire would be putty in the Avengers hands. There never would be a scenario where brute force met brute force ... unless a real bad writer were to pen the script.
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Post by DC-Fan on Dec 26, 2019 1:13:46 GMT
But I think even then Vader gets overwhelmed and breathing hard. Look how Luke took him out. Good point. Luke never actually physically injured Vader You obviously never watched the movies. Luke cut off Vader's hand with his light saber. It is rather silly to concoct a scenario where the Empire just decides on a whim to attack the Earth by throwing everything they had against the planet in one decisive battle. Obviously, there would be a period of time when relations between Earth and the Empire would be on the decline, giving the Avengers plenty of time to preemptively thwart any hostile plans against the Earth. Like how the Empire gave Alderaan plenty of time to preemptively thwart any hostile plans in The New Hope? Or like how the Empire gave the planets destroyed in The Force Awakens plenty of time to thwart any hostile plans? Or like how the Empire gave Kijimi plenty of time to preemptively thwart any hostile plans in The Rise of Skywalker? Oh wait. You never watched the movies. When the Empire destroys a planet, they don't give the planet any advanced warning or time to preemptively thwart any hostile plans. The Empire just fires and the planet is destroyed. There's been nothing that has been able to save a planet once the Empire fires at the planet. Earth and most of the Avengers would be destroyed before any of the Avengers even knew what hit them.
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Post by damngumby on Dec 26, 2019 10:02:27 GMT
Good point. Luke never actually physically injured Vader You obviously never watched the movies. Luke cut off Vader's hand with his light saber. It was a mechanical hand. Didn't you notice the wires sticking out? ... and Luke glancing at his own mechanical hand, recognizing the similarity between he and his father? Did all that fly completely over your head? Yes, exactly like that. Obviously, the conflict between Alderaan and the Empire had been going on for some time. What, you thought the Death Star was just flying through space one day and decided to wipe out a random planet for no reason? No. In each case trouble between the Empire and it's victims had been brewing for some time before the big attack. Alderaan was a peaceful, gun free zone type of planet. In other words - clueless. The Earth is not. A paranoid Nick Fury would certainly have dispatched his more stealthy superheroes to keep tabs on the Empire's intentions, and stop them before the Earth found itself surrounded by warships. Imagine if the protagonists in Rogue One all had superpowers like the Avengers. The Death Star would have been easily infiltrated and destroyed long before it was launched. I'm guessing you did watch these movies, but clearly you didn't understand what you were watching. (No big surprise, there!) Try not to be a total dick by giving away spoilers so soon after a movie has opened, mmkay? Have a little consideration for others.
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Post by ThatGuy on Dec 26, 2019 10:15:12 GMT
Good point. Luke never actually physically injured Vader You obviously never watched the movies. Luke cut off Vader's hand with his light saber. It is rather silly to concoct a scenario where the Empire just decides on a whim to attack the Earth by throwing everything they had against the planet in one decisive battle. Obviously, there would be a period of time when relations between Earth and the Empire would be on the decline, giving the Avengers plenty of time to preemptively thwart any hostile plans against the Earth. Like how the Empire gave Alderaan plenty of time to preemptively thwart any hostile plans in The New Hope? Or like how the Empire gave the planets destroyed in The Force Awakens plenty of time to thwart any hostile plans? When the Empire destroys a planet, they don't give the planet any advanced warning or time to preemptively thwart any hostile plans. The Empire just fires and the planet is destroyed. There's been nothing that has been able to save a planet once the Empire fires at the planet. Earth and most of the Avengers would be destroyed before any of the Avengers even knew what hit them. Not reading your whole post because spoilers.
You obviously didn't watch the OT because Luke only beat down a wheezing old man that tripped on a bridge and cut his hand off when he was already laying down. The only time Luke actually injured Vader was in ESB when he nicked his shoulder.
The Empire did that to Alderaan as a show of force and a test. The First Order did that as a show of force. There would be no reason to destroy Earth because no one else would know about it. What would be the point of blowing up Earth? To get rid of some heroes? Captain Marvel is the problem and she's currently destroying all their ships. Especially after they blew up her home planet. She also just got the time stone and only targeted the Earth.
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Post by ThatGuy on Dec 26, 2019 10:28:21 GMT
But I think even then Vader gets overwhelmed and breathing hard. Look how Luke took him out. Good point. Luke never actually physically injured Vader, he just exhausted him after a short fight. I'm not even entirely sure what the cause of death was ... heart attack? Vader did look feeble and overweight when the helmet was removed. Clearly, he would have been no match against almost any of the Avengers. Another good point. It is rather silly to concoct a scenario where the Empire just decides on a whim to attack the Earth by throwing everything they had against the planet in one decisive battle. Obviously, there would be a period of time when relations between Earth and the Empire would be on the decline, giving the Avengers plenty of time to preemptively thwart any hostile plans against the Earth. With their variety of superpowers, the Empire would be putty in the Avengers hands. There never would be a scenario where brute force met brute force ... unless a real bad writer were to pen the script. Cause of death was electrocution through all the robot parts he has, I guess. He was fine after his fight with Luke, besides missing the cyber hand. But he was done when Palpatine's electricity back flow hit him.
Also, we have someone else here that wants to throw all time periods of the Empire at the Avengers. Can't have Vader and Palpatine along with the First Order. Doesn't make sense. It's like crying that (using the X-men vs Avengers again) Magneto was an X-man in First Class (they weren't X-men) and the future of DoFP, but also wants to use Phoenix. Might as well throw Maul and Dooku in the mix because they were Palpatine's apprentices at one point.
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Post by thenolan on Dec 26, 2019 12:37:51 GMT
There seems to a bigger topic here people are missing. both the Disney star wars and Disney avengers are just bad.
I have seen rise of skywalker and Disney made the force magic, I don't see how that will be defeated against the comic booky nonsense of endgame.
both are not just terrible in 2019.
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Post by DC-Fan on Dec 26, 2019 15:15:54 GMT
You obviously never watched the movies. Luke cut off Vader's hand with his light saber. It was a mechanical hand. Didn't you notice the wires sticking out? ... and Luke glancing at his own mechanical hand, recognizing the similarity between he and his father? Did all that fly completely over your head? Yes, exactly like that. Obviously, the conflict between Alderaan and the Empire had been going on for some time. What, you thought the Death Star was just flying through space one day and decided to wipe out a random planet for no reason? No. In each case trouble between the Empire and it's victims had been brewing for some time before the big attack. Alderaan was a peaceful, gun free zone type of planet. In other words - clueless. The Earth is not. A paranoid Nick Fury would certainly have dispatched his more stealthy superheroes to keep tabs on the Empire's intentions, and stop them before the Earth found itself surrounded by warships. Imagine if the protagonists in Rogue One all had superpowers like the Avengers. The Death Star would have been easily infiltrated and destroyed long before it was launched. Wrong again. You obviously never watched the movies. The Empire destroyed Alderaan not because of any conflict with Alderaan but simply as a show of force to Leia that they have the power to destroy entire planets at will. Alderaan never had any clue that it would be destroyed. Neither did any of the planets destroyed in The Force Awakens or Kijimi in The Rise of Skywalker . And neither would Earth. Nick Fury wouldn't be able to dispatch any superheroes to keep tabs on the Empire because, 1) like all of the planets destroyed by the Empire, Nick Fury wouldn't even know the Empire had the capability to destroy entire planets and 2) when the Empire destroys a planet, they give no advance warning at all.
Like I said before, the Empire just fires and the planet is destroyed. There's been nothing that has been able to save a planet once the Empire fires at the planet. Earth and most of the Avengers would be destroyed before any of the Avengers even knew what hit them.
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Post by DC-Fan on Dec 26, 2019 15:22:08 GMT
You obviously never watched the movies. Luke cut off Vader's hand with his light saber. Like how the Empire gave Alderaan plenty of time to preemptively thwart any hostile plans in The New Hope? Or like how the Empire gave the planets destroyed in The Force Awakens plenty of time to thwart any hostile plans? When the Empire destroys a planet, they don't give the planet any advanced warning or time to preemptively thwart any hostile plans. The Empire just fires and the planet is destroyed. There's been nothing that has been able to save a planet once the Empire fires at the planet. Earth and most of the Avengers would be destroyed before any of the Avengers even knew what hit them. What would be the point of blowing up Earth? To get rid of some heroes?
The Emperor strikes at anyone who may have the power to oppose him. That's why the Emperor sent Stormtroopers to try to kill all the Jedi Knights in Revenge of the Sith. And the Emperor would destroy Earth simply to wipe out the Avengers and all the other heroes on Earth. Earth and most of the Avengers would be destroyed before any of the Avengers even knew what hit them.
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Post by DC-Fan on Dec 26, 2019 15:29:11 GMT
Cause of death was electrocution he was done when Palpatine's electricity back flow hit him. Yes, I know that and you know that, but King Kong Shady never watched the movie. That's why King Kong Shady wrote: "I'm not even entirely sure what the cause of death was ... heart attack? Vader did look feeble and overweight when the helmet was removed." Yep, that stupid comment was written by King Kong Shady. I didn't make that up. King Kong Shady thought Vader looked feeble and overweight after he was electrocuted by the Emperor. I'm pretty sure most the Avengers, like Cap, Black Widow, Hawkeye, Scarlett Witch, Spider-Man, Falcon, and others would also look feeble and overweight if they got electrocuted. Can't have Vader and Palpatine along with the First Order. The First Order IS part of the Empire.
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Post by DC-Fan on Dec 26, 2019 15:33:28 GMT
There seems to a bigger topic here people are missing. both the Disney star wars and Disney avengers are just bad. I have seen rise of skywalker and Disney made the force magic, I don't see how that will be defeated against the comic booky nonsense of endgame. Agreed. The Empire has thousands of warships, each with the capability to destroy entire planets with one shot from space. All it takes is one shot from space to destroy an entire planet. Since most the Avengers can't even fly in space, the Avengers have no way to stop the Empire from destroying Earth if the Empire chooses to. When the Empire fires on a planet, there has been nothing that has been able to save the planet.
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Post by damngumby on Dec 26, 2019 16:48:49 GMT
It was a mechanical hand. Didn't you notice the wires sticking out? ... and Luke glancing at his own mechanical hand, recognizing the similarity between he and his father? Did all that fly completely over your head? Yes, exactly like that. Obviously, the conflict between Alderaan and the Empire had been going on for some time. What, you thought the Death Star was just flying through space one day and decided to wipe out a random planet for no reason? No. In each case trouble between the Empire and it's victims had been brewing for some time before the big attack. Alderaan was a peaceful, gun free zone type of planet. In other words - clueless. The Earth is not. A paranoid Nick Fury would certainly have dispatched his more stealthy superheroes to keep tabs on the Empire's intentions, and stop them before the Earth found itself surrounded by warships. Imagine if the protagonists in Rogue One all had superpowers like the Avengers. The Death Star would have been easily infiltrated and destroyed long before it was launched. Wrong again. You obviously never watched the movies. The Empire destroyed Alderaan not because of any conflict with Alderaan but simply as a show of force to Leia that they have the power to destroy entire planets at will. Then they could have destroyed any planet. The Empire knew that Alderaan has close ties to the rebellion. By choosing Alderaan they killed multiple birds with one stone. If you think they did it just as a show of force, then you are quite naive. It was a message to all rebel planets. Then you agree with me. They were a clueless "gun free zone". If you think the people of Earth would be just as clueless under similar circumstances, then you underestimate us, sir. Setting aside the fact that the OP took the Death Star off the table for this discussion, Nick Fury would certainly know that the Empire had the capability to ravage the surface of any planet with their war ships. It was made quite clear in the first Avengers movie that he would take whatever steps necessary to protect the Earth based on just the perception of a threat. No need to keep repeating yourself. You were wrong the first time.
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Post by damngumby on Dec 26, 2019 16:58:25 GMT
King Kong Shady wrote: "I'm not even entirely sure what the cause of death was ... heart attack? Vader did look feeble and overweight when the helmet was removed." Yep, that stupid comment was written by King Kong Shady. I didn't make that up. You make up so many things ... but that is an accurate quote. I don't know what killed Darth Vader, and neither do you. I can only guess that an already old, feeble and overweight Darth Vader simply couldn't stand the physical strain of a brief fight and a non-lethal dose of electricity. His heart just gave out. He certainly doesn't sound like much of a threat to the Avengers. Luke didn't. Obviously, the emperor's electric charge was insufficient to kill a normal healthy person, or else Luke would be dead.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2019 17:25:11 GMT
Good point. Luke never actually physically injured Vader, he just exhausted him after a short fight. I'm not even entirely sure what the cause of death was ... heart attack? Vader did look feeble and overweight when the helmet was removed. Clearly, he would have been no match against almost any of the Avengers. Another good point. It is rather silly to concoct a scenario where the Empire just decides on a whim to attack the Earth by throwing everything they had against the planet in one decisive battle. Obviously, there would be a period of time when relations between Earth and the Empire would be on the decline, giving the Avengers plenty of time to preemptively thwart any hostile plans against the Earth. With their variety of superpowers, the Empire would be putty in the Avengers hands. There never would be a scenario where brute force met brute force ... unless a real bad writer were to pen the script. Cause of death was electrocution through all the robot parts he has, I guess. He was fine after his fight with Luke, besides missing the cyber hand. But he was done when Palpatine's electricity back flow hit him.
Also, we have someone else here that wants to throw all time periods of the Empire at the Avengers. Can't have Vader and Palpatine along with the First Order. Doesn't make sense. It's like crying that (using the X-men vs Avengers again) Magneto was an X-man in First Class (they weren't X-men) and the future of DoFP, but also wants to use Phoenix. Might as well throw Maul and Dooku in the mix because they were Palpatine's apprentices at one point.
I just assume the time period is up to date. Which means no Vader, Iron Man, Vision, Iron Man, Black Widow and...well, Captain America's an old man but he might take down a whippersnapper or two.
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