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Post by Nora on Jan 12, 2022 9:08:44 GMT
so... Rickons death seemed pointless and the execution felt sloppy. Why wouldnt he at least Try to zig zag? He just bolted a perfectly straight line... The character was dome dirty overall I think, not enough space, zero development... Oh well. One more Stark down. But Littlefingers army coming in for the rescue at the very last momet Was a powerfull moment I give them that. I kept thinking, who could it be, who could swoop in at the last second. Forgot about LittelFinger. To be fair Rickon is a nothing of a character in the books as well so far. So the show portrayed his character accurately. Although at this point in the books his whereabouts are somewhat unknown. Last anyone heard he was with a wildling group of cannibals or something. That was the Tullys. Little fingers yes, but Jon Arryns more so. Sansa and Aryas cousin who was still suckling his moms teet at the age of about 10. Edit…I think his name is Robin Arryn actually. Jon was his father. or really? It was not Little Fingers army but the Tullys? Interesting.. Remind me why didnt they ask for the support of Vale in the first place, when Sansa a Brian were pleasing with the other hourse for support? Or they did and were turned away and only Little Finger then convinced them? This show is so complex
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Jan 12, 2022 9:24:09 GMT
To be fair Rickon is a nothing of a character in the books as well so far. So the show portrayed his character accurately. Although at this point in the books his whereabouts are somewhat unknown. Last anyone heard he was with a wildling group of cannibals or something. That was the Tullys. Little fingers yes, but Jon Arryns more so. Sansa and Aryas cousin who was still suckling his moms teet at the age of about 10. Edit…I think his name is Robin Arryn actually. Jon was his father. or really? It was not Little Fingers army but the Tullys? Interesting.. Remind me why didnt they ask for the support of Vale in the first place, when Sansa a Brian were pleasing with the other hourse for support? Or they did and were turned away and only Little Finger then convinced them? This show is so complex The Tullys wouldn't move. Edmure is a former Lannister prisoner who surrendered his castle to them so he could have a life. Littlefinger came with the Knights of the Vale, loyal to Robin Arryn, son of Jon Arryn and Lysa Tully. It wasn't much of a surprise after we saw Sansa write to him an episode before.
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Post by Marv on Jan 12, 2022 15:19:25 GMT
To be fair Rickon is a nothing of a character in the books as well so far. So the show portrayed his character accurately. Although at this point in the books his whereabouts are somewhat unknown. Last anyone heard he was with a wildling group of cannibals or something. That was the Tullys. Little fingers yes, but Jon Arryns more so. Sansa and Aryas cousin who was still suckling his moms teet at the age of about 10. Edit…I think his name is Robin Arryn actually. Jon was his father. or really? It was not Little Fingers army but the Tullys? Interesting.. Remind me why didnt they ask for the support of Vale in the first place, when Sansa a Brian were pleasing with the other hourse for support? Or they did and were turned away and only Little Finger then convinced them? This show is so complex Sorry Im probably confusing you even more. It’s been years and all the names got jumbled in my memory. The Vale is the Arryn army. That’s the one Littlefinger is ‘in charge’ of now. Robin Arryn is Catelyns sisters son. I had the Tully and Arryn names mixed up in my head because it was Cats sister.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Jan 12, 2022 15:57:26 GMT
Edit…I think his name is Robin Arryn actually. Jon was his father. Was he, really Think about it for a minute. Lysa told Littlefinger they "had their wedding night years ago"…
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Post by Marv on Jan 12, 2022 20:26:25 GMT
Edit…I think his name is Robin Arryn actually. Jon was his father. Was he, really Think about it for a minute. Lysa told Littlefinger they "had their wedding night years ago"… He's still an Arryn though. Just like Joffrey is still a Baratheon.
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Post by Nora on Jan 13, 2022 14:41:08 GMT
the explosion of the crypt/trial room was impressive. I will kinda miss Marjorie, I thought she had a plan to rebel that I would see her carry out, but it was Almost worth the beautiful shot of the window and Tommen jumping from it. I presume Cercei will not get kinder now… But the one thing I wonder, why did they lure away Pycel (and had the kids stab him)? Was he somewhere else, not attending the trial, so they wanted to make sure to get him also? I thought he was in a cell, but we saw him with a hooker just before so I am confused.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Jan 13, 2022 14:53:01 GMT
But the one thing I wonder, why did they lure away Pycel (and had the kids stab him)? Was he somewhere else, not attending the trial, so they wanted to make sure to get him also? I thought he was in a cell, but we saw him with a hooker just before so I am confused. There was no good reason to remove Pycelle. Cersei never liked him and he was shown advising Tommen earlier, so he was included in the spring cleaning. The writing no longer makes logical sense at this point. In the books, his death is similar but arranged by Varys who never left King's Landing and removes a Lannister supporter before the trial.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Jan 13, 2022 14:58:25 GMT
Starks are evil…
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Post by Nora on Jan 15, 2022 23:46:14 GMT
starting the last season today.
There was an obvious decline in writing in the last season already, so I am curious where they will take it.
Jon being a Targaryan is a nice touch I liked that. But Jon being paired up with Daenerys I really dislike. He deserves better.
I also feel like the conflict between Arya and Sansa is too intense and does not feel genuine. After all they have been through would they Really be So hostile toward each other?
Also why was Bran and his Omnipotent power not used more??? He showed them that he now Actually has powers and they dont use it??
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Post by Marv on Jan 15, 2022 23:57:33 GMT
starting the last season today. There was an obvious decline in writing in the last season already, so I am curious where they will take it. Jon being a Targaryan is a nice touch I liked that. But Jon being paired up with Daenerys I really dislike. He deserves better. I also feel like the conflict between Arya and Sansa is too intense and does not feel genuine. After all they have been through would they Really be So hostile toward each other?Also why was Bran and his Omnipotent power not used more??? He showed them that he now Actually has powers and they dont use it?? Arya and Sansa being hostile toward each other was not genuine. The final episode of season 7 revealed that they were playing it up in a ruse to out Littlefinger. I don't remember all the details but all their hostility in season 7 was part of their plan.
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Post by Nora on Jan 16, 2022 4:55:40 GMT
starting the last season today. There was an obvious decline in writing in the last season already, so I am curious where they will take it. Jon being a Targaryan is a nice touch I liked that. But Jon being paired up with Daenerys I really dislike. He deserves better. I also feel like the conflict between Arya and Sansa is too intense and does not feel genuine. After all they have been through would they Really be So hostile toward each other?Also why was Bran and his Omnipotent power not used more??? He showed them that he now Actually has powers and they dont use it?? Arya and Sansa being hostile toward each other was not genuine. The final episode of season 7 revealed that they were playing it up in a ruse to out Littlefinger. I don't remember all the details but all their hostility in season 7 was part of their plan. yes you are correct. I wrote the previous post just before we got to that scene. While I am glad it was a set up, I felt it was a poorly chosen death for LittleFinger. A character of his depth and abilities tried and killed in such a simple almost contrite maner, a full season before the end? He was a very exciting character I wish they had kept him longer and kept us guessing on what scheme he will be able to pull of next. Also why are they making Sansa the "empty stare" the "smartest person there is" all of a sudden??? She has shown near ZERO intelligence till season six near the end and now she is some kind of a mastermind? Hm.. I am glad she became bolder, sure, but this genious at play thing doesnt ring true. I am also disapointed about how they are dealing with Brandon. He comes back with these Super Useful Super powers and they just have him sit in the corner and stare? HIS is the mind they all should be mining for wisdom and foresight. How weird. Two episodes into final season now. Arya and Gendry sex scene was a proper cringefest. I really wish I dint see that Not that those two characters wouldnt have a reson to click, but the execution felt poor/very forced. I really hope someone will stab Daenerys soon, but with each episode it seems less and less likely I cant wait to google what people thought of her. I have a feeling we are supposed be rooting for her but she acts like such a spoilt/entitled/powerhungry brat, one that is pretty brutal and impulsive as well, that its really hard to like her or root for her. I like the little Mormont girl. Thats one empowered female character that works for me. Her and Arya before she was brainwashed. Tomorrow I will finish the series. I Will miss it thats for sure. The brilliance of the first2 seasons left a real mark on my mind.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Jan 16, 2022 5:37:59 GMT
I really hope someone will stab Daenerys soon, but with each episode it seems less and less likely I cant wait to google what people thought of her. I have a feeling we are supposed be rooting for her but she acts like such a spoilt/entitled/powerhungry brat, one that is pretty brutal and impulsive as well, that its really hard to like her or root for her. GoT tells you about people. A whole segment of the audience worshipped Daenerys, identified with her, gave their daughters her name, bought silly dragon figurines. They are the kind who think that all power is oppressive except theirs.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Jan 16, 2022 8:37:50 GMT
I also feel like the conflict between Arya and Sansa is too intense and does not feel genuine. After all they have been through would they Really be So hostile toward each other? Writing for idiots. I never saw the last two seasons, I only know the story through reviews and discussions, but everything points to a further dumbing down and focus on the emotional, all tied up with lousy logic that will be accepted by those who wish to, those who cannot come up with their own judgement and only want to be part of a big fandom. Sansa was introduced as the wannabe princess and Arya as the angry hothead, so having them clash on this simple opposition was easy drama that the masses would understand. Making it look like it was all planned at the very end had the idiots go "wow, that was smarter than me". And it was, even though it was still dumb and implausible. Littlefinger was off'ed like Walder Frey a season earlier: as a free gift to those who always wanted to see it happen. Free because it made no sense, with Arya appearing in jack-in-the-box mode to jump at the throat of whomever needs to die. That same thing already happened when Sansa arrived to meet Jon at Castle Black. It made no sense that she had travelled through Ramsay's lands and that of his allies faster than his messenger who arrived later. She should have been hiding, taking safer detours through the woods, avoiding the Humbers or anyone else but the masses wanted a Stark reunion, so they got it. They cheered, cried and hugged their cushions as the story gave them just was they wanted for no other reason. They had got Jon back the same way already. The books are written for nerds who enjoy following a tight chess game. By S6, the show brings the proverbial pigeon to the board, who just kicks down the opponent pieces for a cheering crowd.
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Post by Nora on Jan 16, 2022 17:43:00 GMT
I also feel like the conflict between Arya and Sansa is too intense and does not feel genuine. After all they have been through would they Really be So hostile toward each other? Writing for idiots. I never saw the last two seasons, I only know the story through reviews and discussions, but everything points to a further dumbing down and focus on the emotional, all tied up with lousy logic that will be accepted by those who wish to, those who cannot come up with their own judgement and only want to be part of a big fandom. Sansa was introduced as the wannabe princess and Arya as the angry hothead, so having them clash on this simple opposition was easy drama that the masses would understand. Making it look like it was all planned at the very end had the idiots go "wow, that was smarter than me". And it was, even though it was still dumb and implausible. Littlefinger was off'ed like Walder Frey a season earlier: as a free gift to those who always wanted to see it happen. Free because it made no sense, with Arya appearing in jack-in-the-box mode to jump at the throat of whomever needs to die. That same thing already happened when Sansa arrived to meet Jon at Castle Black. It made no sense that she had travelled through Ramsay's lands and that of his allies faster than his messenger who arrived later. She should have been hiding, taking safer detours through the woods, avoiding the Humbers or anyone else but the masses wanted a Stark reunion, so they got it. They cheered, cried and hugged their cushions as the story gave them just was they wanted for no other reason. They had got Jon back the same way already. T he books are written for nerds who enjoy following a tight chess game. By S6, the show brings the proverbial pigeon to the board, who just kicks down the opponent pieces for a cheering crowd. thats how i feel too. Cant wait to read the books actually and hopefully the new one too that will deliver a more satisfying things to end. LittleFinger was one of the most skilled/powerful piece on the chess board I felt, if not The most skilled, and his death the way the show showed it was not on par with his cleverness or the cleverness of the girls.
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Post by Marv on Jan 16, 2022 23:35:29 GMT
Writing for idiots. I never saw the last two seasons, I only know the story through reviews and discussions, but everything points to a further dumbing down and focus on the emotional, all tied up with lousy logic that will be accepted by those who wish to, those who cannot come up with their own judgement and only want to be part of a big fandom. Sansa was introduced as the wannabe princess and Arya as the angry hothead, so having them clash on this simple opposition was easy drama that the masses would understand. Making it look like it was all planned at the very end had the idiots go "wow, that was smarter than me". And it was, even though it was still dumb and implausible. Littlefinger was off'ed like Walder Frey a season earlier: as a free gift to those who always wanted to see it happen. Free because it made no sense, with Arya appearing in jack-in-the-box mode to jump at the throat of whomever needs to die. That same thing already happened when Sansa arrived to meet Jon at Castle Black. It made no sense that she had travelled through Ramsay's lands and that of his allies faster than his messenger who arrived later. She should have been hiding, taking safer detours through the woods, avoiding the Humbers or anyone else but the masses wanted a Stark reunion, so they got it. They cheered, cried and hugged their cushions as the story gave them just was they wanted for no other reason. They had got Jon back the same way already. T he books are written for nerds who enjoy following a tight chess game. By S6, the show brings the proverbial pigeon to the board, who just kicks down the opponent pieces for a cheering crowd. thats how i feel too. Cant wait to read the books actually and hopefully the new one too that will deliver a more satisfying things to end. LittleFinger was one of the most skilled/powerful piece on the chess board I felt, if not The most skilled, and his death the way the show showed it was not on par with his cleverness or the cleverness of the girls. Tbf...I even have my issue with the books after a certain point. Martin had the first three completely planned out and thought through, and i think that was initially going to be the entire story...but then he expanded it and the series kind of dips downward imo with book 4 and even furthermore in book 5. It's not all bad, but you can tell it's not as tightly knit as Game of Thrones or Clash of Kings. Also i love that Martin gave his characters consequences but he admits himself that he does things just because its not what is expected...and imo that's a bad way to approach a story. Certain things make perfect sense like Neds death and the Red Wedding...but a lot of other things just feel like theyre there to make the reader unhappy.
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Post by Nora on Jan 17, 2022 5:24:13 GMT
Finished the series. Omg. What a letdown. What a failure the last season was.
I am glad Daenerys is dead of course, happy she was stabbed by none other than Jon, but the rest? And the execution of the last season was so poor. Mexian soap opera level of sentimentality/kytch. Never ending meaningless looks. Overthetop symbolism. Lingering in poorly executed battles. Characters straying from their true nature…
I am still sour over Littlefingers death. He should absolutely be at the small council in the final scene, he was THAT good of a schemer, simple as that.
How did you understand the ending of Jon? Did he desert the Night Watch and now is the King of the Free folk? Or was he just leading them out?
And why was it AT ALL important he was a Targaryan? He could have been a nobody and it wouldnt have made a difference except twice he flew a dragon (but didnt do anything important) I was hoping his ancestry would MEAN something.
Also end of Jamie. WTF. Redemption arc going nowhere, and in such a vile way (deflowering Briane and then leaving her in such a cruel/cold way).
what a TRAVESTY.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Jan 17, 2022 6:10:58 GMT
How did you understand the ending of Jon? Did he desert the Night Watch and now is the King of the Free folk? Or was he just leading them out? And why was it AT ALL important he was a Targaryan? He could have been a nobody and it wouldnt have made a difference except twice he flew a dragon (but didnt do anything important) I was hoping his ancestry would MEAN something. Also end of Jamie. WTF. Redemption arc going nowhere, and in such a vile way (deflowering Briane and then leaving her in such a cruel/cold way). The Night's Watch no longer exists. Jon was given a political, half-empty sentence and merely exiled, told to go back where he came from and renounce any claims at anything. It legally does away with his being "the rightful heir". All this is too technical for the audience of late seasons, so it was left out and replaced by some of Tyrion's underdoggish drivel about a place for the unwanted. Jon's claim is the key to Daenerys' change of attitude. She comes to consider him, the North and basically the whole world as a potential threat, as competition to her vision of "what is right", as resistance to her calling to offer her unquestioned leadership to all. This is why she burns King's Landing, as opposed to landing on the Red Keep, setting the trail of Cersei's gown on fire and laughing at Qyburn trying to put it off. There never was a "redemption arc" for Jaime. This is one of the many misdirections the writing pulls on the audience, knowing that's what it dearly wants (like Ned on the Throne, Stannis on the throne, Robb on the throne, Daenerys on the throne - she never sat on it ). Jaime did what he kept saying he would: Cersei, only Cersei, die in the arms of the woman he loved. His arc was one of coming to terms with himself, of "becoming the man he was needed to be" in Tywin's words of S1, and he did. He got rid of the Kingslayer stain and came back where he always wanted to be. "Died protecting his queen" - we saw him twice looking at that book in S4 and he even said there was still time to fill the pages. He did that. The sidestep with Brienne was the real character killer. The Jaime we knew from earlier seasons wouldn't have cared but the writers wanted to give a certain faction in the audience what it wanted only to snatch it away.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Jan 17, 2022 6:31:31 GMT
Finished the series. Omg. What a letdown. What a failure the last season was. I am glad Daenerys is dead of course, happy she was stabbed by none other than Jon, but the rest? And the execution of the last season was so poor. Watch out for the deleted scene with Greyworm walking in and finding Jon Snow alone in the throne room. "Where is the queen? - I killed her. - Uh… (oh no, she fucked off again). Come on, tell me, where is she? - I told you. She's dead. - Yeah, sure. Where is the body then? - The dragon took it away. - Really? And where's the throne? Did it take it too? - No, it's all melted down, look it's here. - Hmm… (this makes no sense at all). Are you ok? - No… I mean, yes… I don't know. I didn't want it… - Unsullied! Take this man into a padded cell and make sure he cannot hurt himself." Later, at the new king's council: "Let's send lunatics to the Night's Watch after a nice goodbye, at least they can't really do anything wrong there."
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Post by Nora on Jan 17, 2022 6:39:23 GMT
How did you understand the ending of Jon? Did he desert the Night Watch and now is the King of the Free folk? Or was he just leading them out? And why was it AT ALL important he was a Targaryan? He could have been a nobody and it wouldnt have made a difference except twice he flew a dragon (but didnt do anything important) I was hoping his ancestry would MEAN something. Also end of Jamie. WTF. Redemption arc going nowhere, and in such a vile way (deflowering Briane and then leaving her in such a cruel/cold way). The Night's Watch no longer exists. Jon was given a political, half-empty sentence and merely exiled, told to go back where he came from and renounce any claims at anything. It legally does away with his being "the rightful heir". All this is too technical for the audience of late seasons, so it was left out and replaced by some of Tyrion's underdoggish drivel about a place for the unwanted. Jon's claim is the key to Daenerys' change of attitude. She comes to consider him, the North and basically the whole world as a potential threat, as competition to her vision of "what is right", as resistance to her calling to offer her unquestioned leadership to all. This is why she burns King's Landing, as opposed to landing on the Red Keep, setting the trail of Cersei's gown on fire and laughing at Qyburn trying to put it off. There never was a "redemption arc" for Jaime. This is one of the many misdirections the writing pulls on the audience, knowing that's what it dearly wants (like Ned on the Throne, Stannis on the throne, Robb on the throne, Daenerys on the throne - she never sat on it ). Jaime did what he kept saying he would: Cersei, only Cersei, die in the arms of the woman he loved. His arc was one of coming to terms with himself, of "becoming the man he was needed to be" in Tywin's words of S1, and he did. He got rid of the Kingslayer stain and came back where he always wanted to be. "Died protecting his queen" - we saw him twice looking at that book in S4 and he even said there was still time to fill the pages. He did that. The sidestep with Brienne was the real character killer. The Jaime we knew from earlier seasons wouldn't have cared but the writers wanted to give a certain faction in the audience what it wanted only to snatch it away. to me Daenerys was always mad and brutal, she didnt Change, her nding out about Jon and being jealous/feeling threatened was Perfectly in line with her character from before too. I agree that Jamie romance with Brianne didnt match the original Jamie. But I also Wanted his change and beleived that when he went North and realized Cercei lied about following that maybe his love for her would finally weaken. Regardless, I dont think he had to be so brutal/cold to Brianne. What reason he had for that? He wa never outright cruel/evil to anyonw other than when he pushed Bran out of the window (and strangled his cousin ). I see I see.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Jan 17, 2022 7:37:45 GMT
Daenerys' character didn't change, she was always prone to blanket judgement and sentences but the reveal of Jon's parentage was written in and made a plot point for a reason. Now, it seems the show never explains exactly why she turns on the people of King's Landing because the authors wanted to make it a Big Shocking Twist® (bad idea). Still, her mentioning Winterfell in her war speech to the Unsullied hints at the whole thing being a demonstration of ruthlessness to the North as well as to the rest of the world, and that would be a direct consequence of Jon's theoretical claim.
Or maybe it is Varys' defection that tips the scales, and this, I am told, is a direct consequence of Jon's claim.
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