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Post by formersamhmd on Feb 19, 2023 15:30:57 GMT
No Way Home was nothing but gutless fanservice. Wakanda Forever was the better of the two movies.
And Wakanda Forever was nothing but a televised wake for a dead actor at least NWH wasn't relying on pity and tears instead of story to steer their movie. Not sure what's happened to you this week but you're becoming a clown. Your smackworthy comments are a problem. No, instead NWH simply gutlessly brought back the older Spider-Man characters from other universes to have them steal Tom's movie from him instead of telling a real continuation. NWH was really about resolving all the hanging threads from Tobey and Andrew's stories rather than truly advancing Toms' story.
Wakanda Forever paid proper homage to Chadwick and T'Challa at least without forgetting about the greater Wakanda storyline.
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Post by Lux on Feb 19, 2023 16:02:03 GMT
Have you hit your head again? No, I just don't elevate Phases 1 and 2 onto a pedestal. You are elavating Phase 4 onto a pedestal instead. |
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Post by Lux on Feb 19, 2023 16:03:25 GMT
And Wakanda Forever was nothing but a televised wake for a dead actor at least NWH wasn't relying on pity and tears instead of story to steer their movie. Not sure what's happened to you this week but you're becoming a clown. Your smackworthy comments are a problem. No, instead NWH simply gutlessly brought back the older Spider-Man characters from other universes to have them steal Tom's movie from him instead of telling a real continuation. NWH was really about resolving all the hanging threads from Tobey and Andrew's stories rather than truly advancing Toms' story.
Wakanda Forever paid proper homage to Chadwick and T'Challa at least without forgetting about the greater Wakanda storyline.
The one good thing about Phase 4 being NWH you can't even stand that and you wonder why people think you're ridiculous. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Feb 20, 2023 1:34:24 GMT
No, I just don't elevate Phases 1 and 2 onto a pedestal. You are elavating Phase 4 onto a pedestal instead. The "fans" loved Phase 4 until Love and Thunder and then they turned on it and retroactively said "Yeah, all those things we liked before we don't like now". |
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Post by formersamhmd on Feb 20, 2023 1:34:59 GMT
No, instead NWH simply gutlessly brought back the older Spider-Man characters from other universes to have them steal Tom's movie from him instead of telling a real continuation. NWH was really about resolving all the hanging threads from Tobey and Andrew's stories rather than truly advancing Toms' story.
Wakanda Forever paid proper homage to Chadwick and T'Challa at least without forgetting about the greater Wakanda storyline.
The one good thing about Phase 4 being NWH you can't even stand that and you wonder why people think you're ridiculous. NWH was gutless fanservice meant to appeal to the fans of the older non-MCU Spidey movies and wrap up THOSE storylines instead of properly advancing MCU Spider-Man. |
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Post by scabab on Feb 20, 2023 2:02:34 GMT
I don't think people really loved Phase 4 even before Thor 4. With that movie that made 4 of 6 movies to score under a 7.0 on IMDb. Now it's 6 out of 8 with Black Panther and Ant-Man.
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Post by blockbusted on Feb 20, 2023 2:13:16 GMT
I don't think people really loved Phase 4 even before Thor 4. With that movie that made 4 of 6 movies to score under a 7.0 on IMDb. Now it's 6 out of 8 with Black Panther and Ant-Man. You should remember that IMDb ratings are not exactly the most reliable thing to use. |
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Post by Skaathar on Feb 20, 2023 7:58:39 GMT
I don't think people really loved Phase 4 even before Thor 4. With that movie that made 4 of 6 movies to score under a 7.0 on IMDb. Now it's 6 out of 8 with Black Panther and Ant-Man. You should remember that IMDb ratings are not exactly the most reliable thing to use. Out of all the available metrics out there, I actually find IMDB to be the most reliable as far as judging general audience reception. It's not perfect by a long shot, but it's still better than other metrics out there. Certainly better than RT. |
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Jason143
Junior Member
@glaceon
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Post by Jason143 on Feb 20, 2023 10:02:17 GMT
The new phases going into the multiverse was always going to be a challenge for casual audiences. Its no longer the more simpler stories of saving a city, a country or a planet from the earlier phases.
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Post by charzhino on Feb 20, 2023 11:03:03 GMT
You are elavating Phase 4 onto a pedestal instead. The "fans" loved Phase 4 until Love and Thunder and then they turned on it and retroactively said "Yeah, all those things we liked before we don't like now". Finally you say something half sensible. There is no discernable difference in phase 4 movies to all the other phases post-Avengers 1. They are all the same formulaic, CGI heavy comedies with no stakes. What's strange to me is why it took fans and critics until phase 4 to finally wake up and start realizing this. Thor Love and Thunder got harsher reviews, when it is no worse than Ragnarok which audiences/critics raved about. Same can be said about Quantumania compared to its previous installments. Just shows you how powerful the Disney PR machine is, but its losing steam. Its only a matter of time now before people see in full view that the Emperor has no clothes. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Feb 20, 2023 15:48:08 GMT
The "fans" loved Phase 4 until Love and Thunder and then they turned on it and retroactively said "Yeah, all those things we liked before we don't like now". Finally you say something half sensible. There is no discernable difference in phase 4 movies to all the other phases post-Avengers 1. They are all the same formulaic, CGI heavy comedies with no stakes. What's strange to me is why it took fans and critics until phase 4 to finally wake up and start realizing this. Thor Love and Thunder got harsher reviews, when it is no worse than Ragnarok which audiences/critics raved about. Same can be said about Quantumania compared to its previous installments. Just shows you how powerful the Disney PR machine is, but its losing steam. Its only a matter of time now before people see in full view that the Emperor has no clothes. You can't do these movies without CGI, there is no real formula you wouldn't find in other long-running series, and there's more stakes than in something like FoX-Men where they kept resetting things back to where X2 left off. At least the MCU leaves dead characters dead and keeps moving forward.
The people complaining now about Phase 4 are simply hypocrites.
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Post by formersamhmd on Feb 20, 2023 15:55:43 GMT
I don't think people really loved Phase 4 even before Thor 4. With that movie that made 4 of 6 movies to score under a 7.0 on IMDb. Now it's 6 out of 8 with Black Panther and Ant-Man. They were singing it's praises when WandaVision, Falcon/Winter Soldier, Loki and Hawkeye came out. As well as Shang Chi and No Way Home.
Multiverse got a decent reception and then suddenly Thor 4 comes out and it's all "Oh I hate everything in Phase 4 except No Way Home because I hate Tom Holland and love those older Spideys and the movie was really about the non-MCU stuff so it's good."
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Post by charzhino on Feb 20, 2023 16:02:32 GMT
Finally you say something half sensible. There is no discernable difference in phase 4 movies to all the other phases post-Avengers 1. They are all the same formulaic, CGI heavy comedies with no stakes. What's strange to me is why it took fans and critics until phase 4 to finally wake up and start realizing this. Thor Love and Thunder got harsher reviews, when it is no worse than Ragnarok which audiences/critics raved about. Same can be said about Quantumania compared to its previous installments. Just shows you how powerful the Disney PR machine is, but its losing steam. Its only a matter of time now before people see in full view that the Emperor has no clothes. You can't do these movies without CGI, there is no real formula you wouldn't find in other long-running series, and there's more stakes than in something like FoX-Men where they kept resetting things back to where X2 left off. At least the MCU leaves dead characters dead and keeps moving forward.
The people complaining now about Phase 4 are simply hypocrites.
You can do it without them looking like video games. But that would require time and effort, something Feige avoids in his solo movies. Foxs Xmen had stakes. What youre seeing now with this new multiverse is the abandonment of stakes more than ever. Black Widow movie was made after her death even if it was a prequel. Visions death in Endgame was undercut when he re-appeared in Wandavision. And Gamora is back too in the next Guardians lmao. Your 100% right, those people complaining now are hypocrites. Gladly I'm not one of them. I've been calling out MCU movies since Age of Ultron back in 2015. Nothing has changed with the recent movies your right. Its just interesting it took this long for people to start turning on the MCU. Maybe its because the original batch of Avengers are no more. |
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Feb 20, 2023 16:35:31 GMT
You can't do these movies without CGI, there is no real formula you wouldn't find in other long-running series, and there's more stakes than in something like FoX-Men where they kept resetting things back to where X2 left off. At least the MCU leaves dead characters dead and keeps moving forward.
The people complaining now about Phase 4 are simply hypocrites.
You can do it without them looking like video games. But that would require time and effort, something Feige avoids in his solo movies. Foxs Xmen had stakes. What youre seeing now with this new multiverse is the abandonment of stakes more than ever. Black Widow movie was made after her death even if it was a prequel. Visions death in Endgame was undercut when he re-appeared in Wandavision. And Gamora is back too in the next Guardians lmao. Your 100% right, those people complaining now are hypocrites. Gladly I'm not one of them. I've been calling out MCU movies since Age of Ultron back in 2015. Nothing has changed with the recent movies your right. Its just interesting it took this long for people to start turning on the MCU. Maybe its because the original batch of Avengers are no more. That's definitely a significant factor, but I disagree with the idea that there's nothing different here. I think Marvel took a ton of chances in Phase four, and they all blew up in their face. They made a prequel about a dead character. They made television shows and tried to connect them to the films in an inconsistent manner. They gave a solo film to an incredibly minor character in Shang-Chi. They went out on a limb with an auteur director with Eternals. They chose not to recast after Chadwick Boseman's death, and built a story around the loss of an incredibly popular character. These were all risky moves, and many of them didn't really pan out the way the studio had hoped, and there's no question phase four has, for the most part, been less popular with fans, due in no small part to these creative decisions. And yes, I think the lack of culmination in an Avengers movie detracts from the phase overall; Though I find it ironic that you and Power Ranger are complaining about the repetitive nature of the MCU, while agreeing in another thread that the MCU should've just followed the formula and produced another Avengers film by now. It's also par for the course to insist Disney's PR campaign somehow fooled people into liking movies, but any criticism they receive is explained away simply by 'people finally seeing through it.' I get it if the Marvel movies don't do it for you, but you can't have your criticism both ways. What will your explanation be for Guardians 3 or the next Avengers movie, or Fantastic Four, or X-Men, or any well reviewed MCU film from here on out? The people were bamboozled again, I guess. Maybe people just like what they like when it comes to cinema? I hate the Fast & Furious movies, and Avatar movies for example. I don't see them in theaters, but a lot of people do, and it doesn't bother me to the point where I feel compelled to use inverse logic to explain their success or failure. It seems like you'd lump the MCU in with the shitty franchises I mentioned, and while I disagree, and I see enormous differences between the MCU and those franchises, your opinion is your own and I can't tell you you're wrong to see it that way. At the end of the day, Ant-Man made over $100M on its opening weekend despite poor reviews. People still like these movies, as it turns out. You don't, and I respect your opinion, but I don't see the beginning of the end of the MCU here. Welcome back, by the way. |
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Post by blockbusted on Feb 20, 2023 16:45:16 GMT
You can do it without them looking like video games. But that would require time and effort, something Feige avoids in his solo movies. Foxs Xmen had stakes. What youre seeing now with this new multiverse is the abandonment of stakes more than ever. Black Widow movie was made after her death even if it was a prequel. Visions death in Endgame was undercut when he re-appeared in Wandavision. And Gamora is back too in the next Guardians lmao. Your 100% right, those people complaining now are hypocrites. Gladly I'm not one of them. I've been calling out MCU movies since Age of Ultron back in 2015. Nothing has changed with the recent movies you’re right. Its just interesting it took this long for people to start turning on the MCU. Maybe its because the original batch of Avengers are no more. That's definitely a significant factor, but I disagree with the idea that there's nothing different here. I think Marvel took a ton of chances in Phase four, and they all blew up in their face. They made a prequel about a dead character. They made television shows and tried to connect them to the films in an inconsistent manner. They gave a solo film to an incredibly minor character in Shang-Chi. They went out on a limb with an auteur director with Eternals. They chose not to recast after Chadwick Boseman's death, and built a story around the loss of an incredibly popular character. These were all risky moves, and many of them didn't really pan out the way the studio had hoped, and there's no question phase four has, for the most part, been less popular with fans, due in no small part to these creative decisions. And yes, I think the lack of culmination in an Avengers movie detracts from the phase overall; Though I find it ironic that you and Power Ranger are complaining about the repetitive nature of the MCU, while agreeing in another thread that the MCU should've just followed the formula and produced another Avengers film by now. It's also par for the course to insist Disney's PR campaign somehow fooled people into liking movies, but any criticism they receive is explained away simply by 'people finally seeing through it.' I get it if the Marvel movies don't do it for you, but you can't have your criticism both ways. What will your explanation be for Guardians 3 or the next Avengers movie, or Fantastic Four, or X-Men, or any well reviewed MCU film from here on out? The people were bamboozled again, I guess. Maybe people just like what they like when it comes to cinema? I hate the Fast & Furious movies, and Avatar movies for example. I don't see them in theaters, but a lot of people do, and it doesn't bother me to the point where I feel compelled to use inverse logic to explain their success or failure. It seems like you'd lump the MCU in with the shitty franchises I mentioned, and while I disagree, and I see enormous differences between the MCU and those franchises, your opinion is your own and I can't tell you you're wrong to see it that way. At the end of the day, Ant-Man made over $100M on its opening weekend despite poor reviews. People still like these movies, as it turns out. You don't, and I respect your opinion, but I don't see the beginning of the end of the MCU here. Welcome back, by the way. “Welcome back”? Dude, this is the last person whom I would want to see returning. I mean, this guy even doxxed another user few years ago. Maybe he apologized for that since then, but still. |
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Feb 20, 2023 16:47:36 GMT
“Welcome back”? Dude, this is the last person whom I would want to see returning. I mean, this guy even doxxed another user few years ago. Maybe he apologized for that since then, but still. Well, everyone deserves a second chance. We all know how to block people if it comes to that. |
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Post by charzhino on Feb 20, 2023 16:54:28 GMT
That's definitely a significant factor, but I disagree with the idea that there's nothing different here. I think Marvel took a ton of chances in Phase four, and they all blew up in their face. They made a prequel about a dead character. They made television shows and tried to connect them to the films in an inconsistent manner. They gave a solo film to an incredibly minor character in Shang-Chi. They went out on a limb with an auteur director with Eternals. They chose not to recast after Chadwick Boseman's death, and built a story around the loss of an incredibly popular character. These were all risky moves, and many of them didn't really pan out the way the studio had hoped, and there's no question phase four has, for the most part, been less popular with fans, due in no small part to these creative decisions. Yes they changed their content palette but not their style. This is why I say nothing changed, they are still making their patented formulaic movies and have been since 2015. I've not even seen most of those you mentioned, but from the trailers and reviews its easy to see how they play out. They were repetitive but at the time they were still carried by likeable characters/actors that people wanted to see team up. I dont see that same clamor for this new batch of heroes, Strange, Thor, Antman, Shuri, Shang Chi etc. And people are seeing through it, just read any normal user review and youll see the phrases of ''its become stale'' ''its not for me anymore'' ''I checked out after Endgame'' and similar appear many times. The PR can only last so long and Im surprised it did last as long as it did. These few posts are the most I've discussed the MCU in nearly 2 years. I've only seen Antman, Dr Strange, No Way Home and Thor L&T of the new phase. Its just funny to see bots like formersamhd still defending these movies. And also very interesting reading that superfans like Archstanton has also gave up and thrown in the towel on the MCU. I like to explore the reasons why rather than care about the movies in specific. And I'm still hanging around until MCU give us their version of the X-men, its the last thing that really has any levels of interest for me personally. I guess there was a mass unban sometime this year. |
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Post by blockbusted on Feb 20, 2023 16:54:37 GMT
“Welcome back”? Dude, this is the last person whom I would want to see returning. I mean, this guy even doxxed another user few years ago. Maybe he apologized for that since then, but still. Well, everyone deserves a second chance. We all know how to block people if it comes to that. But still, the idea that Disney somehow fooled people into liking MCU is about as credible as the premise of ‘Sword Art Online’. I mean, did he forget that the MCU film before ‘Quantumania’ was ‘Black Panther: Wakanda Forever’, which mostly received praise? |
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Post by hi224 on Feb 20, 2023 16:56:57 GMT
I'd love to see these series and shows maybe take more chances and raise the stakes a bit more. I always know what to practically expect from a Marvel movie or show and that's not good at all. I really would love more of an auteur touch but then Feige would never allow a director a significant amount of power on these differing movies, its his way or the highway unfortunately.
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Post by blockbusted on Feb 20, 2023 16:59:11 GMT
I'd love to see these series and shows maybe take more chances and raise the stakes a bit more. I always know what to practically expect from a Marvel movie or show and that's not good at all. I really would love more of an auteur touch but then Feige would never allow a director a significant amount of power on these differing movies, its his way or the highway unfortunately. Well, a series like MCU would need some sort of guiding hand in order to make sure that it doesn’t go off rails like ‘Star Wars’ sequel trilogy did, not to mention that the director having a full control is not always a good thing. I mean, remember ‘Cats’? |
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