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Post by ThatGuy on Jul 3, 2017 15:09:51 GMT
See that's tone you are talking about not predictability. And what you are not getting is that the MCU is actual comic book movies. Not live action adaptions of comic books. It's like reading a comic book on a movie screen. You won't see a bunch of deaths in the comics because they are using the characters. That's the thing that screws over series like X-men and it's lack of direction. They dump characters in their movies, kill half of them off, then realize they need some of the characters in later movies. That Sunspot, though. Let's throw him in DoFP and now he shows up younger decades earlier in The New Mutants. All of them are reboots of the previous movie because they aren't planning things out. The next movie will be the same with names pulled from a hat. So many characters are being announced for Dark Phoenix that you know they are going to want to do something different with that character later on. And I bet the guy doing The New Mutants is a little put out because he can't use Magneto because Singer screwed him with Apocalypse. That's why he has to use Cecilia Reyes (another random character pulled from a hat). Of course you know how Thor 2 will play out. The movie is like 4 years old. You knew how Guardians 2 would play out? You knew Stallone's role in the movie? You knew what would happen with Yondu? You knew what role the Sovereign would play? And how it would affect the plot? None of that was predictable. BvS was predictable. Wonder Woman was predictable (I've actually said what would happen through out and I was right). X-men Apocalypse was the definition of predictable. I don't think having a lack of direction is a major obstacle in judging how good a franchises quality across the board is. Films are not comic books, TV series or novels. They are meant to be judged as singular entities. The best construct that that exists thus far for continuity is a trilogy. Start stretching out a story across more than that number will only dilute each successive film and make it easier to be forgotten and become a filler. Thats why I feel films like AntMan, Doctor Strange, Thor 2, etc are so easily forgettable and low effort, even though they are well received. With the X-Mens continuity being all over the place when you holistically view it, yeah it seems impossible to connect it all (where's Knowby_Warrior when you need him). But for me I can look past it, interconnectivity is not a huge make or break deal. A good film comes first and foremost before worrying about films that happened 5 years ago or one that is happening in 5 years. I can go watch DOFP and X2 back to back now and not care in the slightest that certain plot points will contradict each other. Watch this little 5 minute debate between Navarro and Burnett from 20 minute mark. youtu.be/6ProSbc09PMYou do know that these are a series of movies and not tacked on movies. If the movies were anthology then you can say that the connectivity doesn't matter. The X-men movies are connected to the point that the ending should dictate the next movie. DoFP has Magneto saying he will raise an army and that mutants should join him. They even have mutants around the world(?) looking like it's a good idea. Next movie is like none of that happened. They give a recap of the end of the movie, but they didn't say what he did after that. Did he try and start his mutant war, failed and went into hiding? They just brush it under the rug and put him in a random place. Would you watch a movie where it randomly shifts to a different story and places the characters in a place that makes no sense for that character from where he left off with no explanation? That's what the X-men movies do. And here's a question for you: How do you feel about reboots? |
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Post by ThatGuy on Jul 3, 2017 15:18:11 GMT
Then you also have people like Jason Momoa extending it with the actors. I think him saying "Fuck Marvel!" was the dumbest thing he could have done. I believe it was Mickey Rourke that said "Fuck Marvel!" after MCU screwed up his part in Iron Man 2. Or was it Edward Norton wh said "Fuck Marvel!" after MCU screwed up his part in The Incredible Hulk? Or was it Natalie Portman who said "Fuck Marvel!" after they screwed up her part in Thor: The Dark World? Nah, they said their displeasure and went on their way. Rourke wanted to be the star of the movie, but found out the day of the villain being the main character was over. Norton is another diva that is known to be hard to work with so was replaced. Portman was the one that got Patty Jenkins the job on Thor 2 and didn't like that Jenkins and Marvel couldn't come to an agreement. But then she was the worst part of Thor 2 so... You forgot about Terrence Howard who wanted as much money as the star of the movie and got booted. Momoa actually said Fuck Marvel! You want it in writing?  That's so civil, right? |
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Post by formersamhmd on Jul 3, 2017 15:43:02 GMT
Portman never cared about the movies to begin with, she only took the part to work with Branagh.
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Post by charzhino on Jul 3, 2017 17:43:35 GMT
You do know that these are a series of movies and not tacked on movies. If the movies were anthology then you can say that the connectivity doesn't matter. The X-men movies are connected to the point that the ending should dictate the next movie. DoFP has Magneto saying he will raise an army and that mutants should join him. They even have mutants around the world(?) looking like it's a good idea. Next movie is like none of that happened. They give a recap of the end of the movie, but they didn't say what he did after that. Did he try and start his mutant war, failed and went into hiding? They just brush it under the rug and put him in a random place. Would you watch a movie where it randomly shifts to a different story and places the characters in a place that makes no sense for that character from where he left off with no explanation? That's what the X-men movies do. And here's a question for you: How do you feel about reboots? The X films are still a series of movies yes. The first 3 Xmen are a solid continuation of each other but the most recent trilogy is loosely connected but not as strong because there are decade time leaps (which I dont personally like, but they dont break the films). And the ending to DOFP and beginning of Apocalypse is a pretty clear bridge. Xavier allows Magneto to escape who then realises and accepts that Charles vision of the world is for the best. He goes back to Poland and settles down for a quiet life with a family which is shown in the next movie. So no I dont think the Xmen films randomly ditch storylines and ignore major arcs. The only time during the franchise I felt it was a genuine problem was the question of how Xavier is still alive in DOFP. But that complaint is near the bottom of the list since most people loved DOFP. The recent films arent happening on a yearly cinematic timescale as the MCU or DCEU, so whilst it may be problematic that films are continuing on decades later the main crux of the story remains consistent. Reboots are fine. I wouldn't mind if the Xmen were rebooted now. |
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Post by THawk on Jul 3, 2017 23:31:38 GMT
Very weird for me too. I enjoy both. Admittedly I lean much more toward Marvel, but never would it stop me from enjoying a good DC movie.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jul 4, 2017 4:16:42 GMT
I believe it was Mickey Rourke that said "Fuck Marvel!" after MCU screwed up his part in Iron Man 2. Or was it Edward Norton wh said "Fuck Marvel!" after MCU screwed up his part in The Incredible Hulk? Or was it Natalie Portman who said "Fuck Marvel!" after they screwed up her part in Thor: The Dark World? Nah, they said their displeasure and went on their way. Rourke wanted to be the star of the movie, but found out the day of the villain being the main character was over. Norton is another diva that is known to be hard to work with so was replaced. Portman was the one that got Patty Jenkins the job on Thor 2 and didn't like that Jenkins and Marvel couldn't come to an agreement. But then she was the worst part of Thor 2 so... You forgot about Terrence Howard who wanted as much money as the star of the movie and got booted. Momoa actually said Fuck Marvel! You want it in writing? That's so civil, right? Actually Momoa didn't intend to legitimately attack the company, he just wrote it to please a fan asking for an autograph. Momoa has said on more than one occasion he grew up reading Marvel comics. Not that this will go noticed by some fans who only see fuel for fire for one side or the other. |
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jul 4, 2017 4:27:45 GMT
Portman never cared about the movies to begin with, she only took the part to work with Branagh. Its true, pretty much every interview she gave for the first one can be boiled down to just wanting to work with Branagh on such an unusual project, and also from the think tank behind the Iron Man movies that was going to set up future features down the road. When Branagh exited from Thor 2 Portman strongly lobbied Jenkins to direct but when things didn't work out she was dissatisfied and only did it because of contractual obligations. She didn't even attend the premieres of either film, though the first one is understandable because she was pregnant at the time. Chances are if Jane ever re-appears in the MCU she'll be played by a different actress, and who knows maybe she'll take over the title of Thor like in the books, Portman's loss if that ever happens especially since she doesn't have many movies that would appeal to her kids - they're much too young to appreciate something like Black Swan, The Professional, Heat, V For Vendetta, and Jackie. Mars Attacks! and that Mr. Magorium movie will likely bore the crap out of them. |
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jul 4, 2017 4:29:17 GMT
Odd, because when I saw Batman Begins in 2005 lots of people I came across online and in real life said it was noticeably darker compared to other superhero movie releases around the time like Spider-Man. That was further elevated with The Dark Knight in 2008 when the only other superhero movies released around were Iron Man and The Incredible Hulk. People in general and fans in particular will be satisfied with a movie adaptation if its a great one, stand alone or part of a larger universe or somewhere in the middle ground like Logan and Deadpool. The reason why people make comparisons to Marvel Studios is because they changed the industry with their first phase of movies which culminated with The Avengers, since then many studios who have movie rights to a chain of superhero characters or superhero type of characters are starting their own universes and trying to echo the same style and tone of the MCU, so comparisons are unavoidable. This is especially true in DC's case as their first attempt at a shared universe was with Green Lantern, which they tried and failed to sell as "Iron Man in outer space"... There was not a single entity back then. Various studios have made their own Marvel movies but there was not a single authoritative voice on all of them. Of course, some may compare Batman Begins with Sam Raimi's and Ang Lee's movies, but the comparison was never Marvel vs. DC; it was Warner Bros vs. Sony (Spider-Man) vs. Fox (X-Men) vs. Universal (Hulk), and most never took them as mutually exclusive. Back then people didn't care what studio had the rights to who, they just saw DC and Marvel logos so they assumed it was DC and Marvel movies and thus counted them in when in debate. The studio vs studio thing is actually for today. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2017 4:34:31 GMT
Portman never cared about the movies to begin with, she only took the part to work with Branagh. Its true, pretty much every interview she gave for the first one can be boiled down to just wanting to work with Branagh on such an unusual project, and also from the think tank behind the Iron Man movies that was going to set up future features down the road. When Branagh exited from Thor 2 Portman strongly lobbied Jenkins to direct but when things didn't work out she was dissatisfied and only did it because of contractual obligations. She didn't even attend the premieres of either film, though the first one is understandable because she was pregnant at the time. Chances are if Jane ever re-appears in the MCU she'll be played by a different actress, and who knows maybe she'll take over the title of Thor like in the books, Portman's loss if that ever happens especially since she doesn't have many movies that would appeal to her kids - they're much too young to appreciate something like Black Swan, The Professional, Heat, V For Vendetta, and Jackie. Mars Attacks! and that Mr. Magorium movie will likely bore the crap out of them. Anyone else find it hilariously pathetic that Portman returned for all three Star Wars prequels without a fuss, but one slip of a director in the MCU is enough to make her pitch a fit and walk away? How in the hell are some creative differences during the filming of Thor: The Dark World worse than being forced to say, "I love the water!" in the most vapid voice imaginable? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2017 4:35:37 GMT
There was not a single entity back then. Various studios have made their own Marvel movies but there was not a single authoritative voice on all of them. Of course, some may compare Batman Begins with Sam Raimi's and Ang Lee's movies, but the comparison was never Marvel vs. DC; it was Warner Bros vs. Sony (Spider-Man) vs. Fox (X-Men) vs. Universal (Hulk), and most never took them as mutually exclusive. Back then people didn't care what studio had the rights to who, they just saw DC and Marvel logos so they assumed it was DC and Marvel movies and thus counted them in when in debate. The studio vs studio thing is actually for today. What's pathetic about people like CaptainMystake is that Marvel created the X-Men. They wouldn't even have their precious Fox-Men series to try feeling superior about if Marvel, the company they've decided to hate, didn't create them. Morons. |
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jul 4, 2017 4:42:32 GMT
Back then people didn't care what studio had the rights to who, they just saw DC and Marvel logos so they assumed it was DC and Marvel movies and thus counted them in when in debate. The studio vs studio thing is actually for today. What's pathetic about people like CaptainMystake is that Marvel created the X-Men. They wouldn't even have their precious Fox-Men series to try feeling superior about if Marvel, the company they've decided to hate, didn't create them. Morons. I think the reason why they're so in love with Fox-Men so much is because that served as their introduction to the property, and they don't really want to dive too deep into the mythos because they know they'll eventually find aspects that make most of the movies inferior to their source material and gain understanding why some fans have been dissatisfied with the films so much. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2017 4:44:42 GMT
What's pathetic about people like CaptainMystake is that Marvel created the X-Men. They wouldn't even have their precious Fox-Men series to try feeling superior about if Marvel, the company they've decided to hate, didn't create them. Morons. I think the reason why they're so in love with Fox-Men so much is because that served as their introduction to the property, and they don't really want to dive too deep into the mythos because they know they'll eventually find aspects that make most of the movies inferior to their source material and gain understanding why some fans have been dissatisfied with the films so much. How childish. They remind me of those people who insist Ralph Bakshi(t) made the better Lord of the Rings adaptation despite ALL the evidence to the contrary. |
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jul 4, 2017 4:46:06 GMT
Its true, pretty much every interview she gave for the first one can be boiled down to just wanting to work with Branagh on such an unusual project, and also from the think tank behind the Iron Man movies that was going to set up future features down the road. When Branagh exited from Thor 2 Portman strongly lobbied Jenkins to direct but when things didn't work out she was dissatisfied and only did it because of contractual obligations. She didn't even attend the premieres of either film, though the first one is understandable because she was pregnant at the time. Chances are if Jane ever re-appears in the MCU she'll be played by a different actress, and who knows maybe she'll take over the title of Thor like in the books, Portman's loss if that ever happens especially since she doesn't have many movies that would appeal to her kids - they're much too young to appreciate something like Black Swan, The Professional, Heat, V For Vendetta, and Jackie. Mars Attacks! and that Mr. Magorium movie will likely bore the crap out of them. Anyone else find it hilariously pathetic that Portman returned for all three Star Wars prequels without a fuss, but one slip of a director in the MCU is enough to make her pitch a fit and walk away? How in the hell are some creative differences during the filming of Thor: The Dark World worse than being forced to say, "I love the water!" in the most vapid voice imaginable? Contractual obligations and the need for more money to attend such an ivy league school like Harvard instead of going to a more regular one just to show off how "smart" and how "rich" she is. Only explanation. |
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jul 4, 2017 4:46:46 GMT
I think the reason why they're so in love with Fox-Men so much is because that served as their introduction to the property, and they don't really want to dive too deep into the mythos because they know they'll eventually find aspects that make most of the movies inferior to their source material and gain understanding why some fans have been dissatisfied with the films so much. How childish. They remind me of those people who insist Ralph Bakshi(t) made the better Lord of the Rings adaptation despite ALL the evidence to the contrary. I remember those people, how they prefer a version where Sam is essentially a jolly goofball with a voice that's like nails on a chalkboard I'll never know. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2017 4:48:46 GMT
Anyone else find it hilariously pathetic that Portman returned for all three Star Wars prequels without a fuss, but one slip of a director in the MCU is enough to make her pitch a fit and walk away? How in the hell are some creative differences during the filming of Thor: The Dark World worse than being forced to say, "I love the water!" in the most vapid voice imaginable? Contractual obligations and the need for more money to attend such an ivy league school like Harvard instead of going to a more regular one just to show off how "smart" and how "rich" she is. Only explanation. This is why Hollywood needs to stop giving Portman work when they have a better alternative in Keira Knightlay. |
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jul 4, 2017 4:53:39 GMT
Contractual obligations and the need for more money to attend such an ivy league school like Harvard instead of going to a more regular one just to show off how "smart" and how "rich" she is. Only explanation. This is why Hollywood needs to stop giving Portman work when they have a better alternative in Keira Knightlay. Portman doesn't do much mainstream these days, I think the last thing she did that more than a few saw besides Jackie was her cameo on TBS' Angie Tribeca. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2017 4:56:38 GMT
This is why Hollywood needs to stop giving Portman work when they have a better alternative in Keira Knightlay. Portman doesn't do much mainstream these days, I think the last thing she did that more than a few saw besides Jackie was her cameo on TBS' Angie Tribeca. Still, what I wouldn't have given to have Knightlay in the role of Jane for the Thor films. She's prettier, more talented, and from what I've heard, a more down to Earth person. |
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Post by DC-Fan on Jul 4, 2017 4:59:40 GMT
What's pathetic about people like CaptainMystake is that Marvel created the X-Men. They wouldn't even have their precious Fox-Men series to try feeling superior about if Marvel, the company they've decided to hate, didn't create them. Morons. What's pathetic about MCU fans is that Stan Lee created the Avengers only because of the popularity of the Justice League comics. They wouldn't even have their precious MCU if DC, the company they decided to hate, hadn't created the Justice League in 1960 and hadn't made Superman: The Movie in 1978. Morons! |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2017 5:08:14 GMT
What's pathetic about people like CaptainMystake is that Marvel created the X-Men. They wouldn't even have their precious Fox-Men series to try feeling superior about if Marvel, the company they've decided to hate, didn't create them. Morons. What's pathetic about MCU fans is that Stan Lee created the Avengers only because of the popularity of the Justice League comics. They wouldn't even have their precious MCU if DC, the company they decided to hate, hadn't created the Justice League in 1960 and hadn't made Superman: The Movie in 1978. Morons! Do you ever think before jumping in and running your mouth? So how does your own foot taste, anyway? |
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Post by Atom(ica) Discord on Jul 4, 2017 5:44:51 GMT
What's pathetic about people like CaptainMystake is that Marvel created the X-Men. They wouldn't even have their precious Fox-Men series to try feeling superior about if Marvel, the company they've decided to hate, didn't create them. Morons. I think the reason why they're so in love with Fox-Men so much is because that served as their introduction to the property, and they don't really want to dive too deep into the mythos because they know they'll eventually find aspects that make most of the movies inferior to their source material and gain understanding why some fans have been dissatisfied with the films so much. Bingo! It's like they went to see all of the Twilight movies but, never read the books and have no clue who Bram Stoker is. And they INSIST they know all there is to know about Vampires. I mean really, who the fuck is this supposed to be? Aunt Entity and Mad Max's forgotten love child? Thunderdome is in the other direction.  |
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