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Post by Lord Death Man on Oct 24, 2017 16:40:38 GMT
Spider-Man isn't an Avenger. I'm just going by what Tony Stark said in SMH. Stark said that helping the irrelevant people was below the Avengers' pay grade. So that means the Avengers won't help the irrelevant people in the lower tax brackets who can't afford to pay for the Avengers' services. So you saying that the US Army goes out and stop everyday crime? That the FBI are taking on singular car-jackings? Tony is talking about the pay grade of the Avengers themselves not how much the everyday person makes. When a person says "That is above my pay grade," they mean that isn't their job. It is for someone in a higher position. Tony told Peter that the bank robbers was below the Avengers' pay grade because they go after the bigger guns. And he gave the information to the FBI. This was in the movie. The heroes in the DCEU are more vigilantes and work either alone or with each other. The MCU heroes, for the most part, work with the authorities and the government. They let the world work on its own until something comes along that needs a superhero. When they start acting like the DC heroes they get in trouble for doing so. If he doesn't understand the use of the term paygrade as a metaphor for a higher level of responsibility, I'm hard pressed to determine who I feel more sorry for; him for being that stupid or you for wasting your time engaging with him. Tough call. |
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Post by ThatGuy on Oct 24, 2017 16:44:07 GMT
Also those that the soldiers embrace tend to be people they know and love, Lois is someone Clark barely knows at that point, sure he's into her and vice versa but that's like their first kiss, not exactly a romantic moment or setting to indulge in their sexual attraction to one another because they don't have any emotional connection to justify it the other way around, people may let it go because Lois & Clark are the most iconic superhero comic book couple but going off of the narrative in MOS they are practically strangers. You obviously didn't watch MoS because Lois and Clark definitely had an emotional connection by the end of the movie. Aside from his mother, Lois was the only other human who knew Superman as Clark. Lois could've betrayed him when the military were looking for him but she didn't. The fact that Lois had so much faith and trust in him made their bond stronger so they definitely had a strong emotional connection by the end of the movie. Pete Ross knew. You didn't see Clark fly back to the IHOP and slob him down. |
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Post by ThatGuy on Oct 24, 2017 16:45:39 GMT
So you saying that the US Army goes out and stop everyday crime? That the FBI are taking on singular car-jackings? Tony is talking about the pay grade of the Avengers themselves not how much the everyday person makes. When a person says "That is above my pay grade," they mean that isn't their job. It is for someone in a higher position. Tony told Peter that the bank robbers was below the Avengers' pay grade because they go after the bigger guns. And he gave the information to the FBI. This was in the movie. The heroes in the DCEU are more vigilantes and work either alone or with each other. The MCU heroes, for the most part, work with the authorities and the government. They let the world work on its own until something comes along that needs a superhero. When they start acting like the DC heroes they get in trouble for doing so. If he doesn't understand the use of the term paygrade as a metaphor for a higher level of responsibility, I'm hard pressed to determine who I feel more sorry for; him for being that stupid or you for wasting your time engaging with him. Tough call. I'm figuring if more people tell him, he'd get it. But you are right. He has a filter that no one can break through. |
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Post by Lord Death Man on Oct 24, 2017 16:54:38 GMT
If he doesn't understand the use of the term paygrade as a metaphor for a higher level of responsibility, I'm hard pressed to determine who I feel more sorry for; him for being that stupid or you for wasting your time engaging with him. Tough call. I'm figuring if more people tell him, he'd get it. But you are right. He has a filter that no one can break through. This is what happens when you willfully and repeatedly choose to disengage with reality - psychosis. In his case the damage seems irreparable. Who knows, maybe he's better off, objective reality can be a harsh mistress. |
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Post by DC-Fan on Oct 24, 2017 17:20:10 GMT
You obviously didn't watch MoS because Lois and Clark definitely had an emotional connection by the end of the movie. Aside from his mother, Lois was the only other human who knew Superman as Clark. Lois could've betrayed him when the military were looking for him but she didn't. The fact that Lois had so much faith and trust in him made their bond stronger so they definitely had a strong emotional connection by the end of the movie. Which doesn't change that they barely know each other as people. Lois just randomly has faith in some guy she doesn't know. Lois knew the kind of person Clark was because she interviewed the workers on the rig that he saved, she interviewed many others who were helped by the mysterious bearded stranger. And she talked to Clark's mother. So she already knew a lot about the kind of person Clark is even before she met Clark and spoke to him. Based on all that she had learned, Lois knew that Clark was a good man and she could trust him.
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Post by DC-Fan on Oct 24, 2017 17:39:35 GMT
Spider-Man isn't an Avenger. I'm just going by what Tony Stark said in SMH. Stark said that helping the irrelevant people was below the Avengers' pay grade. So that means the Avengers won't help the irrelevant people in the lower tax brackets who can't afford to pay for the Avengers' services. So you saying that the US Army goes out and stop everyday crime? That the FBI are taking on singular car-jackings? Tony is talking about the pay grade of the Avengers themselves not how much the everyday person makes. When a person says "That is above my pay grade," they mean that isn't their job. It is for someone in a higher position. Tony told Peter that the bank robbers was below the Avengers' pay grade because they go after the bigger guns. I'm not referring to the Army or the FBI. I'm referring to the Avengers not bothering to help the irrelevant people who can't afford to pay for their services.
Superman could've said "It's just a fire. Saving people from a fire is a menial task for me so I'll just let the Fire Department go in and save the little girl." But Superman didn't say that. Superman saw that a little girl's life was in danger and he rushed there to save her.
Flash could've said "It's just a robber. Stopping a grocery store robbery is a menial task for me so I'll just let the store owner call the cops and maybe the cops will get here before the robber shoots and kills the store owner." But Flash didn't say that. Flash saw a crime being committed and he stopped it.
Wonder Woman could've said "It's just armed robbers taking hostages. I've fought a God so fighting armed robbers is a menial task for me so I'll just let the police rescue the hostages." But Wonder Woman doesn't say that. Wonder Woman sees that innocent lives are in danger so she rushes in to take down the armed robbers and save the hostages.
The Avengers on the other hand decide that helping the irrelevant people is too menial a task for them so the Avengers won't bother to help the irrelevant people who can't afford to pay for their services.
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Post by ThatGuy on Oct 24, 2017 17:57:18 GMT
So you saying that the US Army goes out and stop everyday crime? That the FBI are taking on singular car-jackings? Tony is talking about the pay grade of the Avengers themselves not how much the everyday person makes. When a person says "That is above my pay grade," they mean that isn't their job. It is for someone in a higher position. Tony told Peter that the bank robbers was below the Avengers' pay grade because they go after the bigger guns. I'm not referring to the Army or the FBI. I'm referring to the Avengers not bothering to help the irrelevant people who can't afford to pay for their services.
Superman could've said "It's just a fire. Saving people from a fire is a menial task for me so I'll just let the Fire Department go in and save the little girl." But Superman didn't say that. Superman saw that a little girl's life was in danger and he rushed there to save her.
Flash could've said "It's just a robber. Stopping a grocery store robbery is a menial task for me so I'll just let the store owner call the cops and maybe the cops will get here before the robber shoots and kills the store owner." But Flash didn't say that. Flash saw a crime being committed and he stopped it.
Wonder Woman could've said "It's just armed robbers taking hostages. I've fought a God so fighting armed robbers is a menial task for me so I'll just let the police rescue the hostages." But Wonder Woman doesn't say that. Wonder Woman sees that innocent lives are in danger so she rushes in to take down the armed robbers and save the hostages.
The Avengers on the other hand decide that helping the irrelevant people is too menial a task for them so the Avengers won't bother to help the irrelevant people who can't afford to pay for their services.
But the Avengers have never said that they won't save people from a fire or bank robbery. But Tony did say that it isn't his job to. There are people who's job it is to save people from a fire. Now if he was flying around and saw a building on fire and Friday said there are people inside, he would go in and try to save people. The thing you aren't getting is that Superman, Batman, Flash, Spider-man, etc. are patrollers. The Avengers aren't patrollers. They don't go out and stop the everyday crimes. That's not what they are there for. Why do you keep saying something about paying for their services? Tony pays the Avengers' salary. I think your hate is so strong that you make something out of nothing. You're like a jealous girlfriend. |
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Post by DC-Fan on Oct 24, 2017 18:05:58 GMT
I'm not referring to the Army or the FBI. I'm referring to the Avengers not bothering to help the irrelevant people who can't afford to pay for their services.
Superman could've said "It's just a fire. Saving people from a fire is a menial task for me so I'll just let the Fire Department go in and save the little girl." But Superman didn't say that. Superman saw that a little girl's life was in danger and he rushed there to save her.
Flash could've said "It's just a robber. Stopping a grocery store robbery is a menial task for me so I'll just let the store owner call the cops and maybe the cops will get here before the robber shoots and kills the store owner." But Flash didn't say that. Flash saw a crime being committed and he stopped it.
Wonder Woman could've said "It's just armed robbers taking hostages. I've fought a God so fighting armed robbers is a menial task for me so I'll just let the police rescue the hostages." But Wonder Woman doesn't say that. Wonder Woman sees that innocent lives are in danger so she rushes in to take down the armed robbers and save the hostages.
The Avengers on the other hand decide that helping the irrelevant people is too menial a task for them so the Avengers won't bother to help the irrelevant people who can't afford to pay for their services.
Tony pays the Avengers' salary. They get paid a salary to be Avengers? So the Avengers aren't on the team because they want to help people out of the goodness of their heart. The Avengers are there because they're paid to be on the team. Got it.
So Tony pays them a salary to be Avengers. Is it just a salary or does it also include room and board? Is it a 6-figure salary or a 7-figure salary? Do they report that on their tax returns? Or do they even pay any taxes on the income they receive for being Avengers?
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Post by scabab on Oct 24, 2017 18:31:14 GMT
They get paid in the comics just the same.
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Post by harpospoke on Oct 24, 2017 18:55:58 GMT
On the TV show Person of Interest, each episode began with a narrative by Finch about the machine he built that detected threats to ordinary people whom " the government considered irrelevant. They wouldn't act so I decided I would". In BvS, we saw Superman saving a little girl from a fire and the Flash stopping a grocery store robbery. In the JL trailers, we saw Wonder Woman come to the rescue when armed robbers take hostages. But we've never seen the Avengers save ordinary people from a fire or stop a grocery store robbery or take down some hostage-takers. In fact, in SMH Tony Stark even points out to Peter Parker that helping the irrelevant people is below the Avengers' pay grade. So the Avengers won't help anyone who can't afford to pay? If you're not in the highest tax bracket, the Avengers won't help you? Well someone never watched the 2 Avengers movies where they were clearly shown saving average citizens. Fake complaint. |
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Post by harpospoke on Oct 24, 2017 18:59:54 GMT
They seemed to save a lot of "irrelevant" people in the last acts of both Avengers films. You're crediting the Avengers for saving people from Ultron, who was created by the Avengers? That's like calling an arsonist who set a building on fire a hero because the arsonist ran into the building to save a child from the fire that he started! LOL!!!
The child wouldn't have needed saving if the arsonist hadn't started the fire in the 1st place. And likewise, those people in Age of Ultron wouldn't have needed saving if the Avengers hadn't created Ultron in the 1st place.
It would be like if at the end of Return of the Jedi, the Rebellion decided to build a statue of Darth Vader because Vader killed the Emperor by throwing the Emperor down a reactor shaft. Sure, Vader killed the Emperor, after he spent the last quarter-century helping the Emperor conquer and terrorize the galaxy and kill billions of people. And sure, the Avengers saved those people at the end of Age of Ultron, after the Avengers put those people's lives in danger by creating Ultron.
Oh shocking....when faced with the fact that your premise was wrong...you reach for an excuse. "That doesn't count!...because....reasons!"  |
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Post by DC-Fan on Oct 24, 2017 19:43:21 GMT
On the TV show Person of Interest, each episode began with a narrative by Finch about the machine he built that detected threats to ordinary people whom " the government considered irrelevant. They wouldn't act so I decided I would". In BvS, we saw Superman saving a little girl from a fire and the Flash stopping a grocery store robbery. In the JL trailers, we saw Wonder Woman come to the rescue when armed robbers take hostages. But we've never seen the Avengers save ordinary people from a fire or stop a grocery store robbery or take down some hostage-takers. In fact, in SMH Tony Stark even points out to Peter Parker that helping the irrelevant people is below the Avengers' pay grade. So the Avengers won't help anyone who can't afford to pay? If you're not in the highest tax bracket, the Avengers won't help you? Well someone never watched the 2 Avengers movies where they were clearly shown saving average citizens. Fake complaint. You're crediting the Avengers for saving people from Ultron, who was created by the Avengers? That's like calling an arsonist who set a building on fire a hero because the arsonist ran into the building to save a child from the fire that he started! LOL!!! The child wouldn't have needed saving if the arsonist hadn't started the fire in the 1st place. And likewise, those people in Age of Ultron wouldn't have needed saving if the Avengers hadn't created Ultron in the 1st place. |
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Post by blockbusted on Oct 24, 2017 19:54:28 GMT
Well someone never watched the 2 Avengers movies where they were clearly shown saving average citizens. Fake complaint. You're crediting the Avengers for saving people from Ultron, who was created by the Avengers? That's like calling an arsonist who set a building on fire a hero because the arsonist ran into the building to save a child from the fire that he started! LOL!!! The child wouldn't have needed saving if the arsonist hadn't started the fire in the 1st place. And likewise, those people in Age of Ultron wouldn't have needed saving if the Avengers hadn't created Ultron in the 1st place. I would love to argue this, but your reaction would be something like this:
"아니야!!! 너흰 100% 틀렸어!!!!!!! 내가 100% 옳아!!!!!!!!!! 빼애애애애애액!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
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Post by formersamhmd on Oct 24, 2017 21:11:04 GMT
Which doesn't change that they barely know each other as people. Lois just randomly has faith in some guy she doesn't know. Lois knew the kind of person Clark was because she interviewed the workers on the rig that he saved, she interviewed many others who were helped by the mysterious bearded stranger. And she talked to Clark's mother. So she already knew a lot about the kind of person Clark is even before she met Clark and spoke to him. Based on all that she had learned, Lois knew that Clark was a good man and she could trust him.
2nd hand information doesn't count for Jack. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Oct 24, 2017 21:12:16 GMT
Well someone never watched the 2 Avengers movies where they were clearly shown saving average citizens. Fake complaint. You're crediting the Avengers for saving people from Ultron, who was created by the Avengers? That's like calling an arsonist who set a building on fire a hero because the arsonist ran into the building to save a child from the fire that he started! LOL!!! The child wouldn't have needed saving if the arsonist hadn't started the fire in the 1st place. And likewise, those people in Age of Ultron wouldn't have needed saving if the Avengers hadn't created Ultron in the 1st place. Cleaning up someone else's science experiment is doing good. The other Avengers had no hand in Ultron, just Stark and Banner. |
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Post by DC-Fan on Oct 24, 2017 21:36:39 GMT
You're crediting the Avengers for saving people from Ultron, who was created by the Avengers? That's like calling an arsonist who set a building on fire a hero because the arsonist ran into the building to save a child from the fire that he started! LOL!!! The child wouldn't have needed saving if the arsonist hadn't started the fire in the 1st place. And likewise, those people in Age of Ultron wouldn't have needed saving if the Avengers hadn't created Ultron in the 1st place. The other Avengers had no hand in Ultron, just Stark and Banner. Stark and Banner are Avengers. The Avengers created Ultron. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Oct 24, 2017 21:38:18 GMT
The other Avengers had no hand in Ultron, just Stark and Banner. Stark and Banner are Avengers. The Avengers created Ultron. "All cats have four legs My dog has four legs Therefore, my dog is a cat." |
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Post by dazz on Oct 24, 2017 21:44:27 GMT
Well someone never watched the 2 Avengers movies where they were clearly shown saving average citizens. Fake complaint. You're crediting the Avengers for saving people from Ultron, who was created by the Avengers? That's like calling an arsonist who set a building on fire a hero because the arsonist ran into the building to save a child from the fire that he started! LOL!!! The child wouldn't have needed saving if the arsonist hadn't started the fire in the 1st place. And likewise, those people in Age of Ultron wouldn't have needed saving if the Avengers hadn't created Ultron in the 1st place. You mean like how humanity wouldn't have needed saving in MOS or BVS had Clark not notified Zod of his location there by cauing the invasion which led to mass deaths and Luthor being able to create Doomsday there by making all of Clarks noble deeds outside of saving his schoolmates and those on the oil rig acts of contrition and not actually noble acts of heroism?
What about all those the Avengers saved in the Chitauri Invasion, or those Thor saves by stopping Malekith, wait what about all the innocent people Cap saves by stopping Hydra from having 3 active flying battle ships?
Also the pay thing Tony pays the expenses for the Avengers to live and be Avengers, he uses his own personal fortune to fund the group so that they can always be ready to step up in times of need, given the Avengers don't hide their identities and are super famous they cant exactly have regular jobs to pay the bills, so Tony foots the bill because he wants to make the world better and he feels the Avengers help do that, it's a personality trait for him to do what he can to help those he feels are special to be special, hence taking Banner in when he didn't need to, helping out Spidey with new toys, housing and feeding Wanda giving her a purpose and way to make amends for the trouble she caused in Ultron, and so on he doesn't need to do any of this but Tony chooses to because he feels he should do what he can to give back, not a difficult concept to grasp, unless you have the mental capacity of an amoeba.
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Post by scabab on Oct 24, 2017 21:47:05 GMT
Again, that was the entire point of Ultron, that he was made by a superhero but ended up as a supervillain that other superheroes had to stop.
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Post by DC-Fan on Oct 24, 2017 21:57:15 GMT
Stark and Banner are Avengers. The Avengers created Ultron. "All cats have four legs My dog has four legs Therefore, my dog is a cat." Wow, you've just proven that MCU fans are kiddies because only kiddies would use such flawed logic. It's not rocket science. I'll try to explain t to you clearly using simple, basic set theory.
Draw a large circle. That large circle represents all living creatures that have 4 legs - dogs, cats, lions and tigers and bears, etc. Now inside that large circle, draw 2 smaller non-intersecting circles. 1 of those circles represents cats and the other circle represents dogs.
Now if you've drawn it correctly (and I tried to make the instructions as simple as possible for you since you're slow at getting things), the 2 smaller circles don't intersect at all. So the set of cats and the set of dogs do not share any common items. Therefore cats and dogs are 2 distinct sets.
Do you understand that now? Or do you need me to explain it to you again?
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