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Post by Jep Gambardella on Feb 18, 2019 20:09:08 GMT
No, that was very clearly addressed in the episode. The Orville received a transmission from the planet asking "is there anybody out there?", which meant that, according to their prime directive, they were allowed to establish first contact. Establishing first contact means replying, "Yes, we are out here." Not going there with 4, 6, 8 of your most valuable crew members and blindly rolling the dice. Well, yes, you could make the argument that the Union's First Contact protocols are flawed and should be re-evaluated, but I was just addressing your statement that the crew violated their own prime directive. They didn't.
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Post by movieliker on Feb 18, 2019 21:03:14 GMT
Establishing first contact means replying, "Yes, we are out here." Not going there with 4, 6, 8 of your most valuable crew members and blindly rolling the dice. Well, yes, you could make the argument that the Union's First Contact protocols are flawed and should be re-evaluated, but I was just addressing your statement that the crew violated their own prime directive. They didn't. I am not stating they violated their prime directive by responding to the request of the new species. But I am saying faking a new star, causing a more primitive and evolving species to reevaluate their belief system, was a violation of the prime directive. And not only is their first contact protocol flawed. It is unrealistically stupid. It is unbelievable any species would not do any due diligence before making themselves vulnerable by visiting. Naturally they would be expectingly cautious.
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Feb 19, 2019 21:36:26 GMT
I don't recall them ever saying that the Union has a prime directive or what it might be.
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Post by movieliker on Feb 19, 2019 21:49:56 GMT
I don't recall them ever saying that the Union has a prime directive or what it might be. I believe they said it in S2 E5 "All the World is Birthday Cake".
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Post by Jep Gambardella on Feb 22, 2019 4:39:30 GMT
Good episode on 21/February, as the crew travels to Isaac's planet. First of a two-parter.
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Post by Catman on Feb 22, 2019 4:42:59 GMT
Did anyone else get a 'Spectre of the Gun' vibe while watching?
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Post by movieliker on Feb 22, 2019 9:54:45 GMT
SPOILERS !!!
So, the Kaylon are like the Borg on Star Trek; The Next Generation ??
And, the Kaylon said they had outgrown their planet and they plan on taking over other planets, killing the biological inhabitants, and using their planet for themselves?
How could they have outgrown their planet? They are robots. Just build less robots.
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DarkManX
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Post by DarkManX on Feb 22, 2019 17:19:55 GMT
Identity was a great episode! The Kaylon being evil and Isaac as a double agent were great twists. I'm sure Isaac will have a change of heart of course and help the crew since he's grown to like them.
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Post by movieliker on Feb 22, 2019 17:55:08 GMT
Identity was a great episode! The Kaylon being evil and Isaac as a double agent were great twists. I'm sure Isaac will have a change of heart of course and help the crew since he's grown to like them. Yes. We have to assume this is not the end of the Orville. And Isaac having a change of heart and helping the Orville crew is certainly in the cards. Or, just like the Borg, something in their lack of humanity will be their downfall. With all their analysis, doesn't seem the Kaylon have a chance at being successful. One planet against the whole galaxy? Even the Krill won't stand for being extinguished by the Kaylon.
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maxwellperfect
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Post by maxwellperfect on Feb 23, 2019 2:02:25 GMT
I predicted the storyline to that episode about ten minutes in, but it went way darker than I imagined.
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Post by movieliker on Feb 23, 2019 2:11:07 GMT
I predicted the storyline to that episode about ten minutes in, but it went way darker than I imagined. I don't doubt it. It has been done many times before.
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thornberry
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Post by thornberry on Feb 23, 2019 16:32:09 GMT
SPOILERS !!! So, the Kaylon are like the Borg on Star Trek; The Next Generation ?? And, the Kaylon said they had outgrown their planet and they plan on taking over other planets, killing the biological inhabitants, and using their planet for themselves? How could they have outgrown their planet? They are robots. Just build less robots. As they expressed it, I believe, they exceeded their data storage capacity, ha ha. Why not take over empty planets, build storage facilities there and just manufacture more data drives to keep in them? There's a lesson here. Don't let the machines get too good. Don't let them start improving themselves.
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thornberry
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Post by thornberry on Feb 23, 2019 16:35:46 GMT
Identity was a great episode! The Kaylon being evil and Isaac as a double agent were great twists. I'm sure Isaac will have a change of heart of course and help the crew since he's grown to like them. Isaac's big blue eyes make it surprising that he would collaborate in something evil. It's a question whether the doctor her sons and the others were just reading feelings into Isaac or did he somehow alone among his kind evolve the capacity for feelings.
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Feb 25, 2019 21:20:57 GMT
I watched the new episode over the weekend and it was great. Looking forward to part 2.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2019 22:29:26 GMT
Well, yes, you could make the argument that the Union's First Contact protocols are flawed and should be re-evaluated, but I was just addressing your statement that the crew violated their own prime directive. They didn't. I am not stating they violated their prime directive by responding to the request of the new species. But I am saying faking a new star, causing a more primitive and evolving species to reevaluate their belief system, was a violation of the prime directive. What makes you think so? Can you point to anything on the show that indicates that they are not allowed to do things like this? To me it seems to be right in line with their previous "prime directive" episode. When LaMarr got in trouble on that social media planet, the crew were not allowed to violate the planet's belief system and rescue him by force, say. But they were allowed to manipulate the existing system by planting false evidence to sway public opinion to their side. Seems like it's the same here. They're not allowed to storm in by force and violate the beliefs of the locals, but they are allowed to manipulate those beliefs to get the outcome they want.
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Post by movieliker on Feb 25, 2019 22:48:18 GMT
I am not stating they violated their prime directive by responding to the request of the new species. But I am saying faking a new star, causing a more primitive and evolving species to reevaluate their belief system, was a violation of the prime directive. What makes you think so? Can you point to anything on the show that indicates that they are not allowed to do things like this? To me it seems to be right in line with their previous "prime directive" episode. When LaMarr got in trouble on that social media planet, the crew were not allowed to violate the planet's belief system and rescue him by force, say. But they were allowed to manipulate the existing system by planting false evidence to sway public opinion to their side. Seems like it's the same here. They're not allowed to storm in by force and violate the beliefs of the locals, but they are allowed to manipulate those beliefs to get the outcome they want. I agree it is consistent. But regardless, that makes no sense. The primary reason for having a Prime Directive is not to interfere with the evolution of a species. Rescuing a crew member has less effect on their evolution than changing their belief system.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2019 0:10:23 GMT
What makes you think so? Can you point to anything on the show that indicates that they are not allowed to do things like this? To me it seems to be right in line with their previous "prime directive" episode. When LaMarr got in trouble on that social media planet, the crew were not allowed to violate the planet's belief system and rescue him by force, say. But they were allowed to manipulate the existing system by planting false evidence to sway public opinion to their side. Seems like it's the same here. They're not allowed to storm in by force and violate the beliefs of the locals, but they are allowed to manipulate those beliefs to get the outcome they want. I agree it is consistent. But regardless, that makes no sense. The primary reason for having a Prime Directive is not to interfere with the evolution of a species. Rescuing a crew member has less effect on their evolution than changing their belief system. It makes sense to me. The rule is that you can't change the fundamental system, but you can operate within it.
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Post by movieliker on Feb 26, 2019 0:29:59 GMT
I agree it is consistent. But regardless, that makes no sense. The primary reason for having a Prime Directive is not to interfere with the evolution of a species. Rescuing a crew member has less effect on their evolution than changing their belief system. It makes sense to me. The rule is that you can't change the fundamental system, but you can operate within it. Rescuing a crew member is operating within it. Changing their belief system which their whole society is predicated on is changing their fundamental system.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2019 1:05:21 GMT
It makes sense to me. The rule is that you can't change the fundamental system, but you can operate within it. Rescuing a crew member is operating within it. No. On the social media planet, rescusing LaMarr would violate their system just as breaking somebody out of one of our prisons would violate our system. No, it's not. The fundamentals of the social media system is that people get downvoted, and if they get more than a certain number of downvotes they get lobotomised, and if they get less than that they go free. That's exactly what happened to LaMarr. They biased the vote, but they didn't violate the system - they worked within it. On the Astrology planet, the system is that the presence and location of the stars determines how people are treated. And that's exactly what happened to Kelly and Bortus. Orville biased the starfield so that the people took a different meaning from it, but at the end of the day the society still believed in astrology, and they still treated people according to their astrological sign. In both cases Orville gamed the system, but they didn't break the system.
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Post by movieliker on Feb 26, 2019 1:47:51 GMT
Rescuing a crew member is operating within it. No. On the social media planet, rescusing LaMarr would violate their system just as breaking somebody out of one of our prisons would violate our system. No, it's not. The fundamentals of the social media system is that people get downvoted, and if they get more than a certain number of downvotes they get lobotomised, and if they get less than that they go free. That's exactly what happened to LaMarr. They biased the vote, but they didn't violate the system - they worked within it. On the Astrology planet, the system is that the presence and location of the stars determines how people are treated. And that's exactly what happened to Kelly and Bortus. Orville biased the starfield so that the people took a different meaning from it, but at the end of the day the society still believed in astrology, and they still treated people according to their astrological sign. In both cases Orville gamed the system, but they didn't break the system. I disagree. One thing we will probably both agree on is --- it was incredibly stupid and unrealistic that the Orville would agree to send 6 - 8 of it's most important crew members down to "party" with a species they know nothing about, on a planet they know nothing about, with a social, legal and belief system they no nothing about. No due diligence? No diplomatic immunity? Stupid. No wonder they got in trouble.
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