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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2019 3:52:33 GMT
Okay. No, I disagree with that. It's pretty standard stuff that the senior officers go on these kinds of missions. And it's not justifiable to claim that they knew nothing about them, because clearly there was contact going on before they landed. They must have known things about them. They just didn't know everything.
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Post by movieliker on Feb 26, 2019 3:57:24 GMT
Okay. No, I disagree with that. It's pretty standard stuff that the senior officers go on these kinds of missions. And it's not justifiable to claim that they knew nothing about them, because clearly there was contact going on before they landed. They must have known things about them. They just didn't know everything. Once again, we disagree.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2019 4:09:46 GMT
Okay. No, I disagree with that. It's pretty standard stuff that the senior officers go on these kinds of missions. And it's not justifiable to claim that they knew nothing about them, because clearly there was contact going on before they landed. They must have known things about them. They just didn't know everything. Once again, we disagree. Funny how people do that sometimes. When they landed, they didn't just 'come down on the White House lawn'. They landed in the middle of what was clearly a reception set up for them. That takes prior planning, and that means talking to one another. It's not a matter of opinion - there was contact and discussion between the planet and ship before the landing. Now there's room to wonder what was and wasn't discussed, for sure. Obviously it didn't include discussion of astrology. But language, dietary issues, agreeing a schedule of things to do and talk about, all that kind of stuff? Yeah, pretty obvious that such things would be discussed. They just didn't show it because, well, why would you? Did you really want to see scenes of them sending language files, dietary requirement files, arranging meetings? That would sure make for a fun ten or fifteen minutes of screentime. But absolutely at least some of that stuff went on.
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Post by movieliker on Feb 26, 2019 6:19:49 GMT
Funny how people do that sometimes. When they landed, they didn't just 'come down on the White House lawn'. They landed in the middle of what was clearly a reception set up for them. That takes prior planning, and that means talking to one another. It's not a matter of opinion - there was contact and discussion between the planet and ship before the landing. Now there's room to wonder what was and wasn't discussed, for sure. Obviously it didn't include discussion of astrology. But language, dietary issues, agreeing a schedule of things to do and talk about, all that kind of stuff? Yeah, pretty obvious that such things would be discussed. They just didn't show it because, well, why would you? Did you really want to see scenes of them sending language files, dietary requirement files, arranging meetings? That would sure make for a fun ten or fifteen minutes of screentime.  But absolutely at least some of that stuff went on. Before two different species of humanoids meet, they would discuss beliefs, laws and immunity for the visiting species. The Orville crew would have known if certain birthdays could land anybody in jail or prison. And just like officials from different countries, they would have diplomatic immunity. Otherwise it is just a cheap, stupid, lazy-minded setup for a plot conflict.
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Post by movieliker on Mar 1, 2019 7:57:21 GMT
"Identity Part II"
Rather predictable.
Here's a question. Why didn't the Krill take advantage of the decimated Earth force and slaughter the Earthlings? That has been their mission all along.
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DarkManX
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Post by DarkManX on Mar 1, 2019 20:36:46 GMT
Enjoyed Identity Part II. I'm glad they didn't cop out by making it all a test for Isaac or humanity. It was obvious the Krill were going to come in at the end. Not sure why the Union didn't call all of their allies.
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Post by movieliker on Mar 1, 2019 20:39:15 GMT
Enjoyed Identity Part II. I'm glad they didn't cop out by making it all a test for Isaac or humanity. It was obvious the Krill were going to come in at the end. Not sure why the Union didn't call all of their allies. I agree. But why didn't the Krill take advantage of the decimated Earth forces? That had been their desire all along.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2019 21:53:27 GMT
Funny how people do that sometimes. When they landed, they didn't just 'come down on the White House lawn'. They landed in the middle of what was clearly a reception set up for them. That takes prior planning, and that means talking to one another. It's not a matter of opinion - there was contact and discussion between the planet and ship before the landing. Now there's room to wonder what was and wasn't discussed, for sure. Obviously it didn't include discussion of astrology. But language, dietary issues, agreeing a schedule of things to do and talk about, all that kind of stuff? Yeah, pretty obvious that such things would be discussed. They just didn't show it because, well, why would you? Did you really want to see scenes of them sending language files, dietary requirement files, arranging meetings? That would sure make for a fun ten or fifteen minutes of screentime. But absolutely at least some of that stuff went on. Before two different species of humanoids meet, they would discuss beliefs, laws and immunity for the visiting species. The Orville crew would have known if certain birthdays could land anybody in jail or prison. And just like officials from different countries, they would have diplomatic immunity. Presumptions without foundation. AKA guesses.
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Post by movieliker on Mar 1, 2019 21:55:45 GMT
Before two different species of humanoids meet, they would discuss beliefs, laws and immunity for the visiting species. The Orville crew would have known if certain birthdays could land anybody in jail or prison. And just like officials from different countries, they would have diplomatic immunity. Presumptions without foundation. AKA guesses. No. The "foundation" is common sense. And experience. That is what countries do now.
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Mar 2, 2019 23:19:25 GMT
Identity part II was fantastic. The battle scene was much better than what I saw in Star Trek Discovery season 1. At least on this show you could tell what was going on. Looking forward to next week.
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thornberry
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Post by thornberry on Mar 3, 2019 3:55:03 GMT
This double episode presented some food for thought like the best science fiction short stories. Not only can machines become sentient, we've seen that before - but they are comparable to an organic species that has achieved a high level of social development. The Kaylons bond with each other and are conscious of themselves as a race. They want respect and fair treatment, not slavery. They seem programmed to work to make their kind persevere as much as any social organic species does. They don't have much empathy for other sentient beings yet, though. Except for Isaac, who also seems to show more individuality and independence than the others.
Are the writers saying that it doesn't matter what the building blocks of sentience are, organic material or metal and electronics, once sentience has been achieved it becomes a moral problem to enslave that kind of being and make it do the work you don't want to do?
That carries the sentient machine cliche a bit further. In "Blade Runner" the machines ("replicants") looked and acted like humans and were cuddly and sympathetic to us even though they murdered some humans. The Kaylons show similar feelings for their kind but are unsympathetic ruthless cold metal things to us.
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Post by movieliker on Mar 3, 2019 4:06:24 GMT
Identity part II was fantastic. The battle scene was much better than what I saw in Star Trek Discovery season 1. At least on this show you could tell what was going on. Looking forward to next week. I am happy you liked it. I thought it was predictable and stupid. Why didn't the Krill attack the Earthlings after virtually wiping out the Kaylon by themselves? The Earth defenses were decimated after fighting the Kaylon. That has been the objective of the Krill since this show started. I agree, this show is entertaining. Maybe the best show on broadcast TV right now. But it is not perfect. Maybe I have just seen more space fictions than you have.
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Post by thornberry on Mar 3, 2019 4:11:20 GMT
Identity part II was fantastic. The battle scene was much better than what I saw in Star Trek Discovery season 1. At least on this show you could tell what was going on. Looking forward to next week. I am happy you liked it. I thought it was predictable and stupid. Why didn't the Krill attack the Earthlings after virtually wiping out the Kaylon by themselves? The Earth defenses were decimated after fighting the Kaylon. That has been the objective of the Krill since this show started. I agree, this show is entertaining. Maybe the best show on broadcast TV right now. But it is not perfect. Maybe I have just seen more space fictions than you have. It wasn't from any love of Earthlings, but do you think the Krill might have realized that they have a greater common enemy in the machines and might need to team up again in the future?
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Post by movieliker on Mar 3, 2019 4:29:34 GMT
I am happy you liked it. I thought it was predictable and stupid. Why didn't the Krill attack the Earthlings after virtually wiping out the Kaylon by themselves? The Earth defenses were decimated after fighting the Kaylon. That has been the objective of the Krill since this show started. I agree, this show is entertaining. Maybe the best show on broadcast TV right now. But it is not perfect. Maybe I have just seen more space fictions than you have. It wasn't from any love of Earthlings, but do you think the Krill might have realized that they have a greater common enemy in the machines and might need to team up again in the future? No. Based on previous Krill actions, they more than likely would have wiped out the Earthlings, and increased the power of their own forces to prepare for future Kaylon attack. Maybe even attacked the Kaylon planet themselves. They proved they didn't need any help defeating the Kaylon. And the Earthlings showed they were no match. The Krill don't like weakness. They depise it. They have repeatedly stated they are the superior species chosen by their gods to conquer all others. If enlightenment was their reason for capitulating, it wasn't portrayed well in this episode.
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Mar 4, 2019 1:03:14 GMT
It wasn't from any love of Earthlings, but do you think the Krill might have realized that they have a greater common enemy in the machines and might need to team up again in the future? No. Based on previous Krill actions, they more than likely would have wiped out the Earthlings, and increased the power of their own forces to prepare for future Kaylon attack. Maybe even attacked the Kaylon planet themselves. They proved they didn't need any help defeating the Kaylon. And the Earthlings showed they were no match. The Krill don't like weakness. They depise it. They have repeatedly stated they are the superior species chosen by their gods to conquer all others. If enlightenment was their reason for capitulating, it wasn't portrayed well in this episode. You don't know how many Union or Krill ships were left. You don't know how many Krill ships were lost in the battle. You don't know how much ammo the Krill had remaining. They said it would take weeks to gather the whole Union Fleet so you don't know how many more Union ships were appearing on their long range scanners. Maybe the Krill Bible says you can't attack some one who has just fought by your side. There could be plenty of reasons why they didn't attack the Union ships.
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maxwellperfect
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Post by maxwellperfect on Mar 4, 2019 1:31:24 GMT
After the set-up of part one, the resolution seemed inevitable to me. The predictableness of the story didn't bother me much, especially after how surprisingly dark they went in part one, and how exciting the cliffhanger ending was. And the issue of why the Krill didn't take advantage of the situation didn't bother me too much; I attribute it to the Klingon Krill honor code, shedding blood together against a common foe, etc. I was hoping they'd do a full-on 'The Blob' reference by having that gooey alien go through a grill like The Blob did in the movie theater scene in the '58 movie.
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Post by movieliker on Mar 4, 2019 1:40:40 GMT
No. Based on previous Krill actions, they more than likely would have wiped out the Earthlings, and increased the power of their own forces to prepare for future Kaylon attack. Maybe even attacked the Kaylon planet themselves. They proved they didn't need any help defeating the Kaylon. And the Earthlings showed they were no match. The Krill don't like weakness. They depise it. They have repeatedly stated they are the superior species chosen by their gods to conquer all others. If enlightenment was their reason for capitulating, it wasn't portrayed well in this episode. You don't know how many Union or Krill ships were left. You don't know how many Krill ships were lost in the battle. You don't know how much ammo the Krill had remaining. They said it would take weeks to gather the whole Union Fleet so you don't know how many more Union ships were appearing on their long range scanners. Maybe the Krill Bible says you can't attack some one who has just fought by your side. There could be plenty of reasons why they didn't attack the Union ships. The simple fact that we have to respond with so many "we don't knows" and "maybe's" proves my point. It wasn't portrayed well. Too many questions.
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DarkManX
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Post by DarkManX on Mar 8, 2019 19:17:48 GMT
Blood of Patriots was a huge drop off from the previous episode. This is the first episode of the Orville I didn't really like. The peace treaty with the Krill happened way too fast and ended up being a subplot to a main plot that I could care less about.
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Post by movieliker on Mar 8, 2019 21:37:39 GMT
Blood of Patriots was a huge drop off from the previous episode. This is the first episode of the Orville I didn't really like. The peace treaty with the Krill happened way too fast and ended up being a subplot to a main plot that I could care less about. I didn't think it was that bad. As a matter of fact, I thought it was pretty good. The only episode I didn't like was Episode 5 "All the World is Birthday Cake". That was just plain stupid. No doubt, I could nitpick this show to death. (Making the Krill delegation give urine samples? Asking their mother's maiden names? Give me a break.) As a 60 year old who grew up on Star Trek; The Next Generation, this show does seem a little juvenile and silly. But TNG was probably the same way. I was just too young to realize it. It is not the small details I should be worrying about. It has good, strong, likable characters. Good special effects. Good setting (outer space is cool). And a strong moral. That is probably what TNG was. Still the best thing on broadcast TV.
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Post by Jep Gambardella on Mar 8, 2019 21:52:50 GMT
Blood of Patriots was a huge drop off from the previous episode. This is the first episode of the Orville I didn't really like. The peace treaty with the Krill happened way too fast and ended up being a subplot to a main plot that I could care less about. I didn't think it was that bad. As a matter of fact, I thought it was pretty good. The only episode I didn't like was Episode 5 "All the World is Birthday Cake". That was just plain stupid. No doubt, I could nitpick this show to death. ( Making the Krill delegation give urine samples? Asking their mother's maiden names? Give me a break.) As a 60 year old who grew up on Star Trek; The Next Generation, this show does seem a little juvenile and silly. But TNG was probably the same way. I was just too young to realize it. It is not the small details I should be worrying about. It has good, strong, likable characters. Good special effects. Good setting (outer space is cool). And a strong moral. That is probably what TNG was. Still the best thing on broadcast TV.
It is MEANT to be silly, which was definitely not the case for TNG or any other Trek series. The urine samples, the mother's maiden name and later the implied rectal examination are jokes.
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