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Post by lenlenlen1 on Mar 8, 2018 18:29:23 GMT
WHOA! Whoa. whoa.... What does DCEU have to do with it? I think we're on the same page in calling him out for stupidity, but his being or not being a DC fan has nothing to do with it. He's just stupid. Period. I'm a DC fan and I agree with you. Leave DC out of the MCU conversation. Oh, yes, yes... I was not trying to imply that all DCEU fans are like that. Not generalizing here pal. But the reasons for him making this kind of thread, in this board, with the "Thinly veiled" intention to upset people has an origin. Again, I am not saying all of DC fans are like that. XOXO |
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Mar 9, 2018 0:45:35 GMT
All of your assumptions are based on the idea that Wakanda somehow has no learning institutions of its own and that all of the best learning institutions are in the West. Within the Marvel Universe, that couldn't be farther from the truth. You wouldn't ask the same question of Tony Stark because the answer would be irrelevant. The real (and frankly obvious) answer for both Tony and Shuri is that they are geniuses who would have likely arrived at their level of knowledge and mastery over multiple fields regardless of where they were educated. For a deep dive into the Wakandan culture, government, and its education system (which differs radically from its hyper-capitalist western counterparts in structure and pedagogical approach) see Ta-Nehisi Coates' lauded run on Black Panther and Roxane Gay and Yona Harvey's World of Wakanda.In other words, go read a comic book. Sincerely, Death Man Stanford is real, the MIT is real, Oxford is real - Wakanda is not. In all due respect, your point is not the biggest problem with the Shuri character. After all, Asgard isn't real and neither is Sokovia. But we accept everything we see onscreen about them. The problem with the Shuri character is that they didn't devote anything to backstory or supposition to give some credibility to her being a genius in science and technology. Not unless you count dropping her into a hi-tech lab where everyone seemed to accept that she knew what she was doing. (Which unfortunately is even more than they did for the Disney SW Rey character). Even a brief line or scene that covered her education would've helped. Then you add the comment from the actress who played the character, claiming she is even smarter than Tony Stark. And it seems to have gone viral with people who have seen the movie. You have to show some onscreen development to back up a claim like that. Add that all up and it makes her character come off as somewhat of a MarySue. |
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Mar 9, 2018 15:19:17 GMT
Stanford is real, the MIT is real, Oxford is real - Wakanda is not. In all due respect, your point is not the biggest problem with the Shuri character. After all, Asgard isn't real and neither is Sokovia. But we accept everything we see onscreen about them. The problem with the Shuri character is that they didn't devote anything to backstory or supposition to give some credibility to her being a genius in science and technology. Not unless you count dropping her into a hi-tech lab where everyone seemed to accept that she knew what she was doing. (Which unfortunately is even more than they did for the Disney SW Rey character). Even a brief line or scene that covered her education would've helped. Then you add the comment from the actress who played the character, claiming she is even smarter than Tony Stark. And it seems to have gone viral with people who have seen the movie. You have to show some onscreen development to back up a claim like that. Add that all up and it makes her character come off as somewhat of a MarySue. I disagree. Why do you need a back story fed to you. They are showing you what she can do in the movie. We know she learned these things during her life why do we need to see or hear exactly how she learned them? We all know that anybody could easily make up an explanation for her skills so why waste the time with it? She's a tech genius, we can see that by what she does. Do James Bond movies need to give us a backstory for Q? No, because he's just a guy doing his job, how he got to that point in life is irrelevant to the story IMO. |
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Post by charzhino on Mar 9, 2018 15:35:07 GMT
I disagree. Why do you need a back story fed to you. They are showing you what she can do in the movie. We know she learned these things during her life why do we need to see or hear exactly how she learned them? We all know that anybody could easily make up an explanation for her skills so why waste the time with it? She's a tech genius, we can see that by what she does. Do James Bond movies need to give us a backstory for Q? No, because he's just a guy doing his job, how he got to that point in life is irrelevant to the story IMO. A line or 2 with a backstory in her education would have gone a long way to her character connection. Stark was mentioned to go to M.I.T in Iron Man. Reed Richards in both Fantastic 4 films was shown to go to Empire State University. Dr Banner in The Incredible Hulk. Xavier is shown gaining a professorship at Oxford in First Class as well as Hank McCoy being mentioned in going to Harvard at 15 to justify his technology saviness for the CIA research department. All these people are geniuses and the film hints or shows where they attained this knowledge from - its akin to having a superpower and showing how someone developed it. Its a little jarring to audiences to expect a young girl from Africa whose never gone abroad could be smarter than Stark at the age of 15 without any real evidence or reason as to why. Its no different to Rey knowing Jedi abilities out of the blue with no explanation. |
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Post by Lord Death Man on Mar 9, 2018 15:45:54 GMT
I disagree. Why do you need a back story fed to you. They are showing you what she can do in the movie. We know she learned these things during her life why do we need to see or hear exactly how she learned them? We all know that anybody could easily make up an explanation for her skills so why waste the time with it? She's a tech genius, we can see that by what she does. Do James Bond movies need to give us a backstory for Q? No, because he's just a guy doing his job, how he got to that point in life is irrelevant to the story IMO. A line or 2 with a backstory in her education would have gone a long way to her character connection. Stark was mentioned to go to M.I.T i Iron Man. Reed Richards in both Fantastic 4 films was shown to go to Empire State University. Xavier is shown gaining a professorship at Oxford. All these people are geniuses and the film hints or shows where they attained this knowledge from - its akin to having a superpower and showing how someone developed it. Its a little jarring to audiences to expect a young girl from Africa whose never gone abroad could be smarter than Stark at the age of 15 without any real evidence. Stark, Richards and Xavier were all leads in their respective film. You wanted Coogler to put in a magazine cover montage where we see Shuri on the cover of Forbes and Fortune? Don’t be obtuse. It would have burned valuable time needed for core aspects of the main narrative. They have sequels, stingers and other MCU movies to go into the detailed background of the main character’s sister. Are you upset that we don’t know where Pepper Pots went to business school too? C’mon, man. |
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Post by charzhino on Mar 9, 2018 15:53:41 GMT
Stark, Richards and Xavier were all leads in their respective film. In my edit I also mention Dr Hank McCoy in First Class, when he is first introduced he is said to have graduated from Harvad at 15, after which the CIA picked him up for their research work. Hank is basically Shuri, inventing and developing scientific gizmos to aid the heros. Niether are lead characters. I guess you chose to ignore my opening sentence where I said, " a line or 2". Thats all was needed. Maybe when Shuri is messing around, T'Challa could have said, "maybe I should send you back to Wakanda university where you can keep out of trouble" in a jokey light hearted tone. Thats all it would have taken, not some 10 minute flashback. Yes of course the sequels. Maybe instead of forceibly inserting scenes with no context to set up future films (like Thors bathpool scene in Ultron) they should focus on developing the story fully for current films. Pepper Potts isn't a genuis. |
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Post by cricket on Mar 9, 2018 15:55:01 GMT
Wait, in which of the eight Superman movies I have watched did they address where Luis Lane studied journalism, if she studied at all? She probably was hired just for his pretty face and that's all. Of course she is a great reporter, but she was probably there just for his looks, who knows, the movies did not tell us, unless I am forgetting something. I has been a long time since I watched one of those movies...
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Post by charzhino on Mar 9, 2018 15:58:59 GMT
Wait, in which of the eight Superman movies I have watched did they address where Luis Lane studied journalism, if she studied at all? She probably was hired just for his pretty face and that's all. Of course she is a great reporter, but she was probably there just for his looks, who knows, the movies did not tell us, unless I am forgetting something. I has been a long time since I watched one of those movies... Really, really poor example - just like Pepper Pots. Both Lois and Pepper are western women who are doing jobs that are fairly mainstream in journalism and business. People like Reed Richards, Dr Banner, Shuri, Hank McCoy, Xavier are world renowned super genuises. They represent 0.001% of the IQ demographic from the worlds population, especially young prodigys like Shuri and Hank. Those extraordinary abilities require some form of background and depth. Not Lois Lane being a journalist or Pepper Potts a glorified secretary. |
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Mar 9, 2018 15:59:35 GMT
Stark, Richards and Xavier were all leads in their respective film. In my edit I also mention Dr Hank McCoy in First Class, when he is first introduced he is said to have graduated from Harvad at 15, after which the CIA picked him up for their research work. Hank is basically Shuri, inventing and developing scientific gizmos to aid the heros. Niether are lead characters. I guess you chose to ignore my opening sentence where I said, " a line or 2". Thats all was needed. Maybe when Shuri is messing around, T'Challa could have said, "maybe I should send you back to Wakanda university where you can keep out of trouble" in a jokey light hearted tone. Thats all it would have taken, not some 10 minute flashback. Yes of course the sequels. Maybe instead of forceibly inserting scenes with no context to set up future films (like Thors bathpool scene in Ultron) they should focus on developing the story fully for current films. Pepper Potts isn't a genuis. You just did it yourself. She went to Wakanda University. See, you didn't need Coogler to tell you that, did you? And of course Wakanda U (go fighting rhinos!) is the most advanced school in the world because everything in Wakanda is the most advanced in the world. There "problem" solved. Thank goodness, now we can all enjoy the movie because that lack of critical info was ruining the whole experience for the entire audience. |
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Post by charzhino on Mar 9, 2018 16:04:14 GMT
You just did it yourself. She went to Wakanda University. See, you didn't need Coogler to tell you that, did you? And of course Wakanda U (go fighting rhinos!) is the most advanced school in the world because everything in Wakanda is the most advanced in the world. There "problem" solved. Thank goodness, now we can all enjoy the movie because that lack of critical info was ruining the whole experience for the entire audience. It was just an example. But its an important fact to establish imo. If Antman was suddenly presented with his miniaturization powers with no explanation, would you not want an official backstory rather than an audience speculation one? Its screenwriting 101, sure you can easily leave some unnecessary information for the audience to fill , like when a hero goes for a shower. But when you present an extraordinary situation or character - like Shuri a child genius with amazing intellect- its atleast worthy of some justification. |
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Post by Lord Death Man on Mar 9, 2018 16:24:41 GMT
Stark, Richards and Xavier were all leads in their respective film. In my edit I also mention Dr Hank McCoy in First Class, when he is first introduced he is said to have graduated from Harvad at 15, after which the CIA picked him up for their research work. Hank is basically Shuri, inventing and developing scientific gizmos to aid the heros. Niether are lead characters. I guess you chose to ignore my opening sentence where I said, " a line or 2". Thats all was needed. Maybe when Shuri is messing around, T'Challa could have said, "maybe I should send you back to Wakanda university where you can keep out of trouble" in a jokey light hearted tone. Thats all it would have taken, not some 10 minute flashback. Yes of course the sequels. Maybe instead of forceibly inserting scenes with no context to set up future films (like Thors bathpool scene in Ultron) they should focus on developing the story fully for current films. Pepper Potts isn't a genuis. Pepper Pots manages to run a multination corporation with not much more in the way of credentials than a secretary or personal assistant. You're okay with her being CEO of S.E. because she fits your narrow mold of someone who would be capable of doing that job. Paying lip service to genius with an impressive list of western credentials is not how Coogler decided to demonstrate Shuri's intelligence. He instead chose to "show" it because showing things is better than saying them in a visual medium like film. Again, the movie is primarily about T'Challa. For all of Hank's stated credentials, he still didn't strike me as a genius-level intellect (with the notable exception of the Grammer portrayal). Shuri is essentially the quartermaster in Black Panther. In a Bond movie we don't ask where Q went to school or how he became the head of the OO program's design group (whether or not Desmond Llewelyn, John Cleese or Ben Wishaw play the character). Q doesn't even get the "throw away" line that you seem desperate to hang your hat on because the Bond movies are not about Q. I don't think it was as hard, as it seems to be for you, for the majority of audiences to extrapolate that a technologically-advanced society could produce a SINGLE member of its royal family with a genius-level intellect. Face it, Shuri, being a black, young, female prodigy doesn't fit your preconceived notions of what a genius is or should be. So you had to hyper-scrutinize and question it in a long, drawn out and pointless debate meant to do nothing but discredit the film. I'm sure you also enjoy spending time studying phrenology, telegony and other "lost" scientific arts that might also help prove your point. That's okay, so long as I don't have to break bread with you - knock yourself out. |
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Post by poelzig on Mar 9, 2018 17:25:29 GMT
Jungle school. Also she was tutored by Professor Grodd.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Mar 9, 2018 17:28:12 GMT
Jungle school. Also she was tutored by Professor Grodd. Might have even been prison. D Block. |
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Post by poelzig on Mar 9, 2018 17:32:16 GMT
And with this you made the step from trolling to stupidity and racism... Congratulations!!! If your weren't a DCEU fan, I wouldn't have believed it... WHOA! Whoa. whoa.... What does DCEU have to do with it? I think we're on the same page in calling him out for stupidity, but his being or not being a DC fan has nothing to do with it. He's just stupid. Period. I'm a DC fan and I agree with you. Leave DC out of the MCU conversation. Exactly. After all the only people here who refers to people of color as monkeys are mcu fans so if we want to point fingers at racists....... Speaking of which, I wonder what sock arf arf and raptor are using these days? Hmmmmmmmmm |
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Post by poelzig on Mar 9, 2018 17:37:47 GMT
Jungle school. Also she was tutored by Professor Grodd. Might have even been prison. D Block. Does wakanda have prisons? There's no white folks so why would they need any? Also isn't she a kid? She wouldn't go to prison even if she was old enough since rich folks always get away with committing crimes. |
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Post by Lord Death Man on Mar 9, 2018 17:41:18 GMT
Might have even been prison. D Block. Does wakanda have prisons? There's no white folks so why would they need any? Also isn't she a kid? She wouldn't go to prison even if she was old enough since rich folks always get away with committing crimes. Dunno, did Grodd dimension hop from Earth 3 to the MCU for Shuri's "Jungle School" lessons? Hee hee hee... |
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Post by kuatorises on Mar 9, 2018 17:48:34 GMT
I haven't even seen the movie yet, and I think I hate the character. I'm tired of the "She is smarter and Tony Stark" crap from the Cap/liberal crowd. It's become far too fashionable to rag on Stark; who was unquestionably the most popular character in the franchise before he dared to question the Almighty Steve Rogers.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Mar 9, 2018 18:31:16 GMT
Might have even been prison. D Block. Does wakanda have prisons? There's no white folks so why would they need any? Also isn't she a kid? She wouldn't go to prison even if she was old enough since rich folks always get away with committing crimes. It sounded like Killmonger would have been put in some type of prison. I doubt T'challa would have let him walk around free after his little stunt. |
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Post by Vassaggo on Mar 9, 2018 21:30:30 GMT
If I'm not mistaken, Shuri mentions a few times that her and her team created things. This mitigates Mary Sue nature, and shows that there are more Highly Educated and Technical people in Wakanda. Just like Antman was a Superhero Heist Movie, Winter Soldier was a Superhero Spy Thriller, Spiderman was a Superhero John Hughes High School comedy, Ragnarok was a Superhero Buddy Cop movie, Black Pather is obviously a Superhero James Bond thriller. The comparison to Q is perfect because that's what she was. And I've never heard anyone complain about Q and his team's schooling was withheld from the viewer. We assume he's the best at his job because he is making and showing things to the protagonist who we assume is the best at his job.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Mar 9, 2018 21:43:27 GMT
If I'm not mistaken, Shuri mentions a few times that her and her team created things. This mitigates Mary Sue nature, and shows that there are more Highly Educated and Technical people in Wakanda. Just like Antman was a Superhero Heist Movie, Winter Soldier was a Superhero Spy Thriller, Spiderman was a Superhero John Hughes High School comedy, Ragnarok was a Superhero Buddy Cop movie, Black Pather is obviously a Superhero James Bond thriller. The comparison to Q is perfect because that's what she was. And I've never heard anyone complain about Q and his team's schooling was withheld from the viewer. We assume he's the best at his job because he is making and showing things to the protagonist who we assume is the best at his job. Shuri does mention “the design team” on at least one occasion in Black Panther but, we never see them. We did get a glimpse of a fully staffed Wakandan scientific research center at Mt. Beshenga at the end of Civil War when they put Barnes back on ice. And it’s easy to assume Q is smart and well educated because he is white and speaks with a British accent. Kewl. |
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