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Post by charzhino on Mar 9, 2018 21:47:10 GMT
If I'm not mistaken, Shuri mentions a few times that her and her team created things. This mitigates Mary Sue nature, and shows that there are more Highly Educated and Technical people in Wakanda. Just like Antman was a Superhero Heist Movie, Winter Soldier was a Superhero Spy Thriller, Spiderman was a Superhero John Hughes High School comedy, Ragnarok was a Superhero Buddy Cop movie, Black Pather is obviously a Superhero James Bond thriller. The comparison to Q is perfect because that's what she was. And I've never heard anyone complain about Q and his team's schooling was withheld from the viewer. We assume he's the best at his job because he is making and showing things to the protagonist who we assume is the best at his job. Q is a long-standing character whose role is well established in the Bond universe. Guys like Hank McCoy and Lucius Fox are not and compared to them, its even more reason why a 15 year old Wakandan girl needs some backstory to how she got so smart, that she is more intelligent than a guy who can create an element in his basement from scratch. If what you say is mentioned about design team, then thats atleast something. |
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Post by Lord Death Man on Mar 9, 2018 22:07:51 GMT
If I'm not mistaken, Shuri mentions a few times that her and her team created things. This mitigates Mary Sue nature, and shows that there are more Highly Educated and Technical people in Wakanda. Just like Antman was a Superhero Heist Movie, Winter Soldier was a Superhero Spy Thriller, Spiderman was a Superhero John Hughes High School comedy, Ragnarok was a Superhero Buddy Cop movie, Black Pather is obviously a Superhero James Bond thriller. The comparison to Q is perfect because that's what she was. And I've never heard anyone complain about Q and his team's schooling was withheld from the viewer. We assume he's the best at his job because he is making and showing things to the protagonist who we assume is the best at his job. Q is a long-standing character whose role is well established in the Bond universe. Guys like Hank McCoy and Lucius Fox are not and compared to them, its even more reason why a 15 year old Wakandan girl needs some backstory to how she got so smart, that she is more intelligent than a guy who can create an element in his basement from scratch. If what you say is mentioned about design team, then thats atleast something. His role is established - not his background. That's what you're arguing isn't it? We don't even know Q's real name let alone what school he went to, where he trained or how he came to be a non-comm in HMSS. You know nothing about Q aside from what you hear him say to Bond during provisioning. "Now pay close attention, Charizo..." While her backstory could have had more detail, it was by no means vital to the movie and I'm sure that we're going to learn more about the character because, like it not, you're going to see a lot more of her. |
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Mar 9, 2018 22:10:18 GMT
Did they even mention Tony Stark in the movie? Wasn't that whole thing just an off the cuff remark in some interview somebody did? People are really getting wrapped around the axle over nothing here.
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Post by Vassaggo on Mar 9, 2018 22:45:10 GMT
Did they even mention Tony Stark in the movie? Wasn't that whole thing just an off the cuff remark in some interview somebody did? People are really getting wrapped around the axle over nothing here. I think the actress playing Shuri said that her character was smarter than Tony in an interview. To back that up though if you watch the IW trailer close up you see Tony's Bleeding Edge armor. It is building and spreading back over his body like BP suit. So She maybe or maybe not be as smart as Tony, but her and the team created similar Cutting edge suits similarly. |
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Post by Lord Death Man on Mar 9, 2018 22:59:53 GMT
Did they even mention Tony Stark in the movie? Wasn't that whole thing just an off the cuff remark in some interview somebody did? People are really getting wrapped around the axle over nothing here. I think the actress playing Shuri said that her character was smarter than Tony in an interview. To back that up though if you watch the IW trailer close up you see Tony's Bleeding Edge armor. It is building and spreading back over his body like BP suit. So She maybe or maybe not be as smart as Tony, but her and the team created similar Cutting edge suits similarly. Nate Moore, a producer on the film, was the first to say Shuri is smarter than Tony Stark (to my everlasting chagrin). It was not a smart move. He caused a lot of consternation amongst the fans for no fucking reason. |
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Post by Vassaggo on Mar 9, 2018 23:04:31 GMT
If I'm not mistaken, Shuri mentions a few times that her and her team created things. This mitigates Mary Sue nature, and shows that there are more Highly Educated and Technical people in Wakanda. Just like Antman was a Superhero Heist Movie, Winter Soldier was a Superhero Spy Thriller, Spiderman was a Superhero John Hughes High School comedy, Ragnarok was a Superhero Buddy Cop movie, Black Pather is obviously a Superhero James Bond thriller. The comparison to Q is perfect because that's what she was. And I've never heard anyone complain about Q and his team's schooling was withheld from the viewer. We assume he's the best at his job because he is making and showing things to the protagonist who we assume is the best at his job. Q is a long-standing character whose role is well established in the Bond universe. Guys like Hank McCoy and Lucius Fox are not and compared to them, its even more reason why a 15 year old Wakandan girl needs some backstory to how she got so smart, that she is more intelligent than a guy who can create an element in his basement from scratch. If what you say is mentioned about design team, then thats atleast something. Yeah, I'm like 90% sure she says her team at least twice. I've only seen the movie 2 times so I am not certain. The first time I watch one I just like being in the moment. It's the second or third time I start to critique and pick up the finer details. I am quick to give any nerdy thing the benefit of the doubt. DC, Marvel (marvel studios or fox), Star Trek, Star Wars, Inception, Interstellar, Arrival etc etc. I'm pretty easy to entertain, maybe not as easy as Kevin Smith. I can usually find at least something I like, but that man is 10x more forgiving than me. If you ever listen to one of his reviews if he isn't blowing the production team he really didn't like it. I am probably a little too easy on Marvel and Fox, I start the movies thinking I will like them. DCEU now i'm more neutral. I don't go into a movie hoping it sucks but I'm not going into it a DCEU movie with any confidence It will be great. |
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Post by Vassaggo on Mar 9, 2018 23:06:39 GMT
I think the actress playing Shuri said that her character was smarter than Tony in an interview. To back that up though if you watch the IW trailer close up you see Tony's Bleeding Edge armor. It is building and spreading back over his body like BP suit. So She maybe or maybe not be as smart as Tony, but her and the team created similar Cutting edge suits similarly. Nate Moore, a producer on the film, was the first to say Shuri is smarter than Tony Stark (to my everlasting chagrin). It was not a smart move. He caused a lot of consternation amongst the fans for no fucking reason. I knew it was something like that. I couldn't remember who said it but I knew it wasn't in story, but a maker of the movie. |
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Post by Lord Death Man on Mar 9, 2018 23:10:00 GMT
Nate Moore, a producer on the film, was the first to say Shuri is smarter than Tony Stark (to my everlasting chagrin). It was not a smart move. He caused a lot of consternation amongst the fans for no fucking reason. I knew it was something like that. I couldn't remember who said it but I knew it wasn't in story, but a maker of the movie. It was marketing propaganda from a producer. It was not meant to be an in-universe fact. Too bad fanboys can’t tell the difference. |
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Mar 10, 2018 11:55:33 GMT
Hey guys just a heads up. This film protagonist is T'challa and not Shuri. She's a supporting character, thus the reason why we weren't given a back story with her.
Also to add to this anyone else find it weird that people can buy the following: a scientist turning into a giant green rage monster.
A man who made a suit that can transform over his flesh.
A young short skinny man given a super formula that turns him into a super Soldier that than gets frozen over 70 years and Lives.
a hammer that has the mass of the sun but can only be picked up by those who are worthy.
A man who can shrink and then grow giant.
A Woman who can manipulate people's minds and surrounding areas with her "spells".
A man who has super speed.
A Doctor who becomes an sorcerer surpreme.
A teenage boy who has spider powers.
A man who eats a plant and becomes enhanced human.
All of this is believable, but a teenage Black girl from Africa that is intelligent is the unrealistic thing that gets you guys to question the film's.
Yep sounds legit.
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Post by charzhino on Mar 10, 2018 12:29:13 GMT
Hey guys just a heads up. This film protagonist is T'challa and not Shuri. She's a supporting character, thus the reason why we weren't given a back story with her. A major supporting character. Like Killmonger, whose 1 or 2 lines about him fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq really opened up his backstory and justified his combat prowess. Thats all it takes, a couple of lines of dialogue which last 10 seconds in a 2.5 hour film. Justified in Avengers when Stark mentions gamma radiation accident should have killed Banner. Again, a 10 second line and we know about Banners history. Explained in IM1 with a full backstory. Explained in Cap 1 with a full backstory. All explained and justified through story telling and dialogue. But Shuri isnt. Shes presented as a tech/science wizard with literally no explanation or backstory at all. Again il point to Xmen First Class, where we are introduced to a young scientist whose a genius and Xavier, with 1 or 2 lines gives us an idea of how he got to that level, graduating Harvard at 15 and explaining his mutation also gives him superior intellect. And this is one of the many reasons why Xmen First Class is a tighter and better overall script than Black Panther. |
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Post by Lord Death Man on Mar 10, 2018 12:29:30 GMT
Hey guys just a heads up. This film protagonist is T'challa and not Shuri. She's a supporting character, thus the reason why we weren't given a back story with her. Also to add to this anyone else find it weird that people can buy the following: a scientist turning into a giant green rage monster. A man who made a suit that can transform over his flesh. A young short skinny man given a super formula that turns him into a super Soldier that than gets frozen over 70 years and Lives. a hammer that has the mass of the sun but can only be picked up by those who are worthy. A man who can shrink and then grow giant. A Woman who can manipulate people's minds and surrounding areas with her "spells". A man who has super speed. A Doctor who becomes an sorcerer surpreme. A teenage boy who has spider powers. A man who eats a plant and becomes enhanced human. All of this is believable, but a teenage Black girl from Africa that is intelligent is the unrealistic thing that gets you guys to question the film's. Yep sounds legit. What is more disturbing is that Shuri’s intelligence would be easier to accept for some if the Vibranium was somehow responsible for it or if it was something in the Wakandan water. I think they’d even go in for a bullshit, Rain Main style autistic-spectrum excuse. It’s just somehow impossible to make the mental leap that a young African girl could be a genius or have any natural aptitude towards the sciences. Wakanda is the most technologically advanced country in the world (in the MCU). Why is it so hard to believe that a member of their royal family, with access to every benefit the country has and all of its knowledge, could be smart? You don’t reason with people who can’t wrap their minds around this simple concept. You wait for them to become extinct, like dinosaurs. |
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Mar 10, 2018 12:57:23 GMT
Hey guys just a heads up. This film protagonist is T'challa and not Shuri. She's a supporting character, thus the reason why we weren't given a back story with her. A major supporting character. Like Killmonger, whose 1 or 2 lines about him fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq really opened up his backstory and justified his combat prowess. Thats all it takes, a couple of lines of dialogue which last 10 seconds in a 2.5 hour film. Justified in Avengers when Stark mentions gamma radiation accident should have killed Banner. Again, a 10 second line and we know about Banners history. Explained in IM1 with a full backstory. Explained in Cap 1 with a full backstory. All explained and justified through story telling and dialogue. But Shuri isnt. Shes presented as a tech/science wizard with literally no explanation or backstory at all. Again il point to Xmen First Class, where we are introduced to a young scientist whose a genius and Xavier, with 1 or 2 lines gives us an idea of how he got to that level, graduating Harvard at 15 and explaining his mutation also gives him superior intellect. And this is one of the many reasons why Xmen First Class is a tighter and better overall script than Black Panther. I'm sorry I just get why it's a big deal for shuri to be a smart teenager. I find that more believable than the crazy shit Marvel throws at us in Guardians. |
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Post by charzhino on Mar 10, 2018 13:04:33 GMT
I'm sorry I just get why it's a big deal for shuri to be a smart teenager. I find that more believable than the crazy shit Marvel throws at us in Guardians. Its called good story telling and world building. The other films and examples I mentioned do it successfully. Black Panther is good but mishaps in character development like this make it far from perfect. If Killmonger didnt mention his wars would you just accept that a black guy from the hood could stroll into Wakanda and beat a king in hand to hand combat? |
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 10, 2018 13:39:45 GMT
I'm sorry I just get why it's a big deal for shuri to be a smart teenager. I find that more believable than the crazy shit Marvel throws at us in Guardians. Its called good story telling and world building. No, you want spoonfeeding. |
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Post by charzhino on Mar 10, 2018 14:04:21 GMT
Its called good story telling and world building. No, you want spoonfeeding. Not really spoonfeeding is it though. Its futile arguing with MCU fanatics, they dont really have a firm grasp over story telling and character development. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 10, 2018 14:27:30 GMT
No, you want spoonfeeding. Not really spoonfeeding is it though. Its futile arguing with MCU fanatics, they dont really have a firm grasp over story telling and character development. She comes from a super-advanced civilization with stuff way beyond us and She's a Princess. It's easy to extrapolate that she got a superior education there and their own scientists are just that good. You might as well ask how the Ravagers in GOTG got their ships when they all seem to be a bunch of thugs. You might as well ask how Magneto learned how to make a machine that would turn Humans into Mutants. |
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Mar 10, 2018 16:28:00 GMT
I'm sorry I just get why it's a big deal for shuri to be a smart teenager. I find that more believable than the crazy shit Marvel throws at us in Guardians. Its called good story telling and world building. The other films and examples I mentioned do it successfully. Black Panther is good but mishaps in character development like this make it far from perfect. If Killmonger didnt mention his wars would you just accept that a black guy from the hood could stroll into Wakanda and beat a king in hand to hand combat? Okay fair enough in regards to killmonger. I guess it wouldn't have hurt the film to throw in a reference to her education. I still didn't find it to be that big of a stretch. Especially in a universe where you can spawn armor out of thin air. |
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Post by DC-Fan on Mar 10, 2018 17:08:33 GMT
It's not impossible for her to go to school outside of wakanda. We know that they send their people out to interact with the outside world. The only good reason ive got is from politicidal, that other elders who travel outside Wakanda go to other countries and pass on their education to young Wakandans. The flaw with that reasoning is that Wakanda is a dictatorship and only Wakandan spies are allowed to travel outside Wakanda. Other Wakandan citizens aren't allowed to travel outside Wakanda. Because if they were, then those Wakandan citizens who attended universities in other countries and engaged in the knowledge-sharing that happens at universities would realize that Wakanda keeping all that medical technology/processes that can heal people and save many lives to themselves is selfish and deplorable and they would try to help the rest of the world develop similar medical technology/processes that can heal people and save many lives. Unless they're too afraid to share that information for fear that the King of Wakanda would arrest them and take them back to Wakanda for execution. That's what T'Chaka tried to do to his own brother. T'Chaka would've arrested his own brother and taken him back to Wakanda for execution if his brother hadn't been killed. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 10, 2018 17:13:39 GMT
The only good reason ive got is from politicidal, that other elders who travel outside Wakanda go to other countries and pass on their education to young Wakandans. The flaw with that reasoning is that Wakanda is a dictatorship and only Wakandan spies are allowed to travel outside Wakanda. Other Wakandan citizens aren't allowed to travel outside Wakanda. Because if they were, then those Wakandan citizens who attended universities in other countries and engaged in the knowledge-sharing that happens at universities would realize that Wakanda Is better off not letting themselves be destroyed by colonizers. Just like how the Amazons of Themyscira keep to themselves. |
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Mar 10, 2018 17:23:15 GMT
No, you want spoonfeeding. Not really spoonfeeding is it though. Its futile arguing with MCU fanatics, they dont really have a firm grasp over story telling and character development. It's funny how some people will call any level of backstory or character development spoon feeding. Even the briefest. |
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